@Today I Found Out Why people call this frivolous : "Your brewer should maintain a water temperature between 195 to 205 degrees Fahrenheit for optimal extraction. Colder water will result in flat, under-extracted coffee, while water that is too hot will also cause a loss of quality in the taste of the coffee. " National Coffee Association www.ncausa.org/About-Coffee/How-to-Brew-Coffee So if her coffee was 190 degrees, that's what it should be. If you order something that is made at a particular temperature, you should expect it to be that temp. The only thing that should constitute a lawsuit is if the cup given was defective(which doesn't seem to be the case.) You discuss the point of the coffee being hazardous at those temps, but what should have been mentioned(by McDonald's Lawyers too)is that when you let coffee sit at a "drinkable" temp it gets stale faster and will cool off faster, (ever had room temp coffee?) and people also tend to add things like cold cream which would drop the temp even more. This is more an example of a failed defense than a truly frivolous lawsuit because the lady wasn't "just looking for a quick payout", if she hadn't made the initial request for just medical fees I would say different. While the full story is more interesting, I doubt it will change most peoples view on if it was frivolous or not because it comes down to a simple understanding that coffee is intended to be hot and you should act accordingly. Which they did, because they chose not to try and open the cup while moving(something the defense lawyers should have used) . Also, a mistake on your part shouldn't be blamed on someone else. Perhaps instead of just stopping the car she should have let her son open the coffee(presuming age as a factor in the spill/response time to getting the fabric away from the skin). I can't possibly believe than any reasonable person would want coffee cold enough to make it "safe". "...Burns will also occur with a six-second exposure to 140 degree water or with thirty second exposure to 130 degree water. Even if the temperature is 120 degrees, a five minute exposure could result in third-degree burns." www.accuratebuilding.com/services/legal/charts/hot_water_burn_scalding_graph.html

the highest temperature ypu can endure in your mouth before a burn is 114 f. thats it. i hate hot food. i want to eat/drink..not wait 10 minutes to eat.

@@goldiefatale Yeas so true! I ad milk only to cool the coffee or tea down. When I was 20 I sat playing guitar and singing with a friend in my home town. We had plenty of people applauding and enjoying our music. One fellow apparently didnt and threw red-hot McDonald's coffee in my face. It took laser-surgery to get rid of the scars.

@@drjerry5389 WHAT..that's terrible. I always put almond milk and an ice cube in. i make mine at home though and have a fancy one with a milk frother..so i prefer mine to restaurant beverages.

Is this a Rick roll??

I was confused too.

Ya, me too.

@ like a hairless impostor!

Didn't know Johnny Sins was here.

I've seen the beardless Simon described as a "goblin." The beard suits him.

If sales were consistent. I'm not sure they would be.

It is cheaper. That claim was ludicrous

People say they want it to stay hot until they get to work, etc. Then get a dang thermos!

They claimed that 70% of customers didn't drink the coffee until at least 10 minutes later. Maybe they waited 10 minutes to drink it because it was served scalding hot. That's what we call a self-fulfilling prophecy.

use celsius like any smart person please

@Carleton Rutherford I saw that episode. Kramer's lawyer was a lampoon of OJ Simpson's laywer Johnny Cochran.

It was a huge joke at the time.

Melissa Cooper yeah it’s horrible what happened to her, but it was still her fault

@@justinablin9852the fault was McDonald's. No one should be horrifically burned by coffee. Of which they had been cited by officials for being too hot. And 700 people complained and/or were injured. Who knows how many more went unreported?

​@@ourkeving Well, I think people shouldn't be stupid and try to blame others for it. But here we are.

On really?! I have KZfaq Premium so I do not see any ads unless I seek them out specifically. #Tataa

Ive got McDonald's..

Goabnb94 sometimes I have them put an ice cube in my coffee so it's drinkable in a few minutes

And then it'll be drinkable for about five minutes until it gets too cold

My thinking is that a lot of people want it to still be hot when they sit down at their desk to start work.

ikr?! What's up with that!? I can never get a cup of coffee that stays just the right drinkable temperature. So frustrating! I actually grumble about that every morning as I sit drinking my morning cups of coffee. It was funny to see someone else mentioning it. :)

McDonald's sells the coldest hot coffee in the industry. They brew at 180 degrees. The industry standard is 195-205 degrees f. Virtually every other major chain serves it above 195 degrees. McDonald's it at a cold 180 degrees due to the fact that customers will stand at the counter glaring at the coffee maker watching it brew and the instant it finishes brewing they demand to be instantly served that piping hot coffee before it cools down. I know, I'm a restaurant manager. Culinary school teaches us to brew it at 195-205 and that is what Starbucks and Dunken Donuts and most brew it at. But McDonald's is paranoid, and for good reason, about getting sued over hot coffee so they brew the coldest hot coffee in the industry. I have served 207 degree coffee and had a customer scream obscenities at me for serving it ridiculously too cold and then throw it at me which made it necessary for me to go to the hospital. It is a damned if you do and damned if you don't scenario. Serve it one degree colder and they demand a refund for serving icy cold. Serve it one degree hotter and they sue for making it burning hot. It should be illegal to sue over getting burned for spilling hot coffee on yourself. So to your point, yes, most people want to see the air bubbles from it boiling an hour after they sit down at their desk at work.

Only McDonald's was not torturing anyone. She spilled her coffee! That's all there is to it. Why did that old bat open the cup and started to drink while driving? Why did she hold it under her thighs? That's cup is probably made of Styrofoam and is not a solid cup to be pressed between your thighs while driving.

@@TheSamosaCritic Spilled coffee should not result in third degree burns, hospitalisation and skin grafts. That's all there is to it.

@@JohnJ469 More like the court system is a fucking joke now that will punish you for not being nice enough in the theatrical drama of court room, and the jury are probably a bunch of snowflakes just like that old coot. She files an outrageously frivolous lawsuit, and when she gets hammered for it in the court, "oh look McDonald's is not being very nice to that poor old lady, let's punish them by taking millions of dollars from them and giving it to her *whein whein whein*."

Your last sentence reveals that you clearly didn’t watch the whole video and are just parroting the same outrage script you heard from some other uninformed talking head. They didn’t pay millions of dollars, you ignorant, callous ass. Stay mad, though.

Even if one wasn't driving a cup of coffee could topple over for any reason, someone bumping into you, point is it should not result in third degree burns and skin graphs. Requesting medical fees was reasonable. The money she was awarded mostly covered medical and legal fees.

So basically she got inseminated with coffee,got pregnant and got burnt !! NOW SHE HAS A Mc Donalds Bun In Her Oven ! Hot Apple Pie !!

@@renjake7727 You mean that was not creamer floating in my coffee?

Ellie Barela well you be careful next time and you won't get burned. If you can't handle it then you DONT need to be working around coffee.

shinysonic 35 you are actually stupid

@@cljoe35 idiot

"You'd think after so many years I'd learn to stop doing this..." Bad habits can be hard to break.

Stop reading headlines and start reading articles.

cause the whole thing was a propaganda campaign aimed at "tort reform" aka taking the right to sue for injuries away from regular working people. unlike this video the documentary "hot coffee" explains everything. I think this video is just poorly done plagiarism of that documentary.

V Volek isnt this guy from Europe why does he have Fahrenheit? Im American so i don't really mind as i have learned both (like i was forced to learn both imperial and metric system) but wouldnt he have learned Celsius?

He uses Fahrenheit as his viewers are mostly American.

thank you kind sir

Nobody cares about Celsius

SlowedAndChopped “you are right” only around 7 billion people care about Celsius xD

Oh, that's cute. You think lawyers have human emotions.

@@claytonreeves150 they... do? Everyone has the right to fair representation. If every case was that black-and-white to where lawyers weren't necessary for each side, we wouldn't have a legal system in the first place. Life ain't a superhero cartoon.

The reason McDonalds ignored the FDA is because the temperatures were within industry standards. It was stated many times. You can't force one company to change their temperatures and not others, if they are all within standards. The temperatures stayed the same, they just put on a lot more warning labels.

Your second point is WILDLY subjective. I WANT my McDonald's coffee at that high temperature, now I can't because of a bunch of stupid snowflakes who don't understand what "Hot" means.

Maybe people like you should order Ice Coffee.

--Or you could just drink some prune juice and be done with it.

Only if it's a glass bottle. Glass can cut you. Mo' money!!!

Maybe they make it hotter because people that are getting it to go may not want to start drinking it immediately.

@Helmholtz Fast food restaurants are focused on the stores efficiency. Giving the customer another option makes the store less efficient.

120-140 is a good drinking temperature. Ideal brewing temperature is 195-206, so freshly brewed will probably be really hot.

You don't understand the science of this, and that's OK. But, you're wrong.

you want to brew it higher then 120 because it will cool during the brewing process, and it wont taste very good if the water isn't hot enough during the brewing.

It's not a tongue-in-cheek reference to the event ; the bigger the writing, the more it attracts the consumer';s attention, thus making the warning reach a peak efficiency.

Also, it's not so much "caution: hot" as it is "caution: *really ridiculously overly* hot". Everyone knows coffee is hot. Maybe not everyone knows McDonald's coffee is so hot that it will dissolve your skin within seconds.

It's the same temperature that everyone serves coffee at +- a few degrees

SamBskate they did that as part of the lawsuit so they are warning people it is HOT to take the blame off them so people know it is HOT. they didn't do it to be funny or a jerk.

Captain Howdy, either way it did become a joke. When McDonalds, and other companies, started with the warning labels people thought it was hilarious because it was pointing out the obvious.

Well if you studied this case McDonalds told in a statment to the judge "We want to make sure our coffee is still hot when our customers get home" end quote which is why it was 190 degrees it should be 150-160 degrees for safe serving temperature and at home coffee makers do 140-150 degrees so yea that is why mcdonalds coffee was so hot

actually you just RUIN coffee if you make it at those temperatures, unless it is a spresso machine (not pouring waterover powder coffee). I drink 1L of coffee daily, and the temperature to prepare it is no more than 170F. In 2 minutes it is enjoyable to drink, no burns and with all its flavours. also, I don't get how people would buy coffee to TAKE IT HOME. you can do a much better coffee by yourself at home really. anyways, McCoffee SUCKS ASS, same as starbuck's.

Enrique Nuesch in Canada McDonald's bought out the rights to the coffee beans Tim Hortons was using a number of years ago. You notice the difference in both brands, I don't like either anymore, haven't for nearly a decade...I prefer old school pour over single serve melitta deluxe.

Yes you may boil it, but you don't use it at boiling temperature. Pouring hot boiling water over the coffee will fucking ruin it. Learn how to make real coffee before saying people is retarded.

Learn how to speak english :^)))))

The issue is that they received numerous complaints before this incident and did literally nothing. 700 reports of doing nothing is gross negligence. And there is stuff they could have done, like when someone orders cream and sugar have the server put it in so there is a reduced risk of burns, or ask people if they would want an ice cube or two dropped in to reduce the temptrature if they plan to consume the coffee immediately. After a few hundred people are hurt, the company should have been trying something.

no in fact it is not. 700 reports over 10s of millions of coffees sold represents an insignificant amount of risk, therefore there is zero negligence. This is why today all coffee vendors continue to brew and serve their coffee at the same scalding temperatures. The issue is that the McDonald's representatives were callous in ATTITUDE and therefore the burnt lady was awarded money. Simple as that.

They did plenty. They paid out money to most/all of those complaints. Like he said with the sharp knife. Coffee is hot. This is a known fact ergo it should be candled with the care due just like a sharp knife.

bensemus x That is not doing something to try and fix the problem. They do have the server put the cream and sugar in for you now, they do have better lids and I think more air at the top of the cup to reduce spills. compare the current cup www.pereylaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/iStock_000018728318_Large-1.png?1b458e to the older cup s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/29/b1/aa/29b1aaee78b5c29f8b71ccf55380674f.jpg and you can see the change in lid to reduce the odds of burns. Those are real measures that reduce the injuries, and even if they had tried such and it did nothing they could say "we tried X to make this not happen" which would have meant they would avoid punitive damages because there is no gross disregard for injuries. With a knife you could experiment with the handle to reduce accidents for example. If the old handle became super slick when at all wet and that caused a hundred injuries then the company should at least look into seeing if that can be fixed.

+nick homgren What can they be expected to do? To get good flavored coffee, the water used to brew it should be between 195 degrees and 205 degrees F, and the coffee should cool to between 120 degrees and 140 degrees before you drink it. You will still get 3rd degree burns from a 6 second exposure to 140 degree liquid, so even if they could somehow time things to get coffee to the customer at the perfect drinking temperature, it would still have given that woman 3rd degree burns before she could reasonably expect to get those sweat pants off and limit her exposure. Even if the person handing the coffee to her had said, "Be careful, this coffee is hot and will burn you if you spill it", you know she would STILL have done exactly the same thing and ended up burned. The only way to avoid the issue is for McDonald's to stop selling coffee, or idiots to stop buying it. (BTW, changing the lid is a non-issue in this case, since the customer TOOK THE LID OFF)

oi23origin add ice

oi23origin then don't.

oi23origin you fucking sook

When you do your own coffee, it ain't lava. When I buy a coffee I WANT TO DRINK IT, not 10 mins later and burning my tongue. It also make their coffee taste like shit since it's so hot it burn the coffe grains.

true..............but not so hot to cause 2nd and 3rd degree burns.................get real.

Creamer helps cool the coffee :)

One version of the story cited this as the reason for serving coffee to go at such a high temperature. It's common to buy coffee and consume it later; given that it's much easier to cool coffee than to heat it, they serve it at a higher temperature.

I've gotten that at McDonalds. They fussed about employees putting ice in the coffee (as I asked), they were REQUIRED to serve it at that dangerous temperature "so that it won't get too cold and customers start complaining about cold coffee". Invariably, when going to McDonalds for breakfast (rare), I have to ask for a small cup of ice on the side, and cool the coffee on my own. I don't tell them why.

RedHeart64 It's the safest bet, and in all likelihood, it's probably faster. It seems to be a major slowdown because it looks like policy dictates that it always comes hot: but then again, that makes sense. Besides, if you ask for a cup of ice, you're more likely to be able to cool it to the degree (pun intended) that you prefer instead of them taking a guess or having to specifically ask you how many cubes you want, ya know?

***** That's how I handle it, but I've mentioned wanting to cool down my coffee to drinking temperature and got fussed at. I keep my mouth shut but it really irritates me to have people try to dictate how I like my coffee. At least now they will honor a request to leave 'room' for creamer. They used to fuss about that request - and fuss if you dumped some of the coffee out. I ask them to leave room for creamer (sometimes STILL have to pour some out) and then a small cup of ice. The employees tend to look when you put ice in your coffee, but so far, no comments.

Yeah I thought that too.

show me where i copied and pasted from.

Here: "by that logic i`m surprised that she didn`t sue ford for not putting cup holders in the car."

.....smartass XD lol

oooBASTIooo so you just copied and pasted my comment again.

The fuck styrofoam cups companies use that

@Jeff Young Who drinks coffe to get 3rd degree burns in their digestive systems?

@Jeff Young are you? What kind of moron thinks that hot enough for 3rd degree burns is just perfect?

keep in mind hot coffee starts to become bitter as it gets cooler. even with sugar, there will still be a strong bitterness.

@Jeff Young the womans labia were melted together .

Damn... Morbid, yet funny. 😂

about 85 degrees celsius, that's the temperature you make coffee at. if it were colder it wouldn't be very fresh coffee, would it? also by the time you got home from mcdonalds drive through the coffee woiuld have cooled a lot. just blow on it to cool it.

you know people just doesn't drink coffee right after purchasing it and if you use lower temperature coffee won't brew properly. Even when I make my coffee I use 95-100 degree C which is more than 190 F I guess.

i thought 95-100 was too hot? they always say "never use boiling water", so i thought 85. ah well, 190 fahrenheir isn't rediculously hot anyway.

The correct brewing temperature for coffee is 195-205 degrees. McDonald's brews it at 180. They serve the coldest coffee in the industry. Yet people still insist upon targeting them for lawsuits.

Brew it at one temp, store it at another. Why is that so hard?

At the same time, if we all know this, then McDonalds should have played the wounded party and said that the coffee was so hot because they want people to get hot coffee experience as long as possible. But like the video said, annoying attitude, annoying jury.

Go back and watch it again. The jury initially felt as you do - that the woman was at fault and the claim was frivolous. But then it became clear that this was happening A LOT and that McDonalds had a "callous and cavalier attitude" to customer safety. 700 people with similar burns with no action taken at all. At least they finally put a message on the cup and looked into different designs, but the jury voted that way to prevent McDonalds from continuing in a course of action that was hurting people, no matter how silly the manner in which they were hurt might have been.

Coffee is meant to be hot 🤔

""callous and cavalier attitude" to customer safety. 700 people with similar burns *with no action taken at all*." What action do you expect? Not brewing coffee?

Zheeraffa1 Did you watch the video? They were pressed to reduce the temperature to a level that would not scald. Not all outlets sold it at that temperature. Look how many people in the comments are saying how they need to wait 10 minutes before its drinkable. What thy did instead was put the message on it and slowly improve the cups, but despite the injuries McD's stayed with that temperature. Watch the video again - the jury started just as cynical as you, but the attitude of McD's swayed them. It had nothing to do with feeling sorry for an old granny (not that you said it was). Reduce the temp so its immediately drinkable and out of the scalding range. That requires a bit of effort and research, not random commenting on the internet. Seems McD's couldnt be bothgered with either, and thats why they lost.

Sucks for her but it really was all her fault, and while I think McDonald's could have should have offered to pay her bills out of good will because it is pocket change for them and life changing for her, I don't think they should have any legal obligation to do so. Coffee is hot. 180 degrees F is a typical serving temperature for black coffee. The cup wasn't defective and leaking or anything of the sort, she just spilled it, it's all on her. What if she was getting tea? Tea is brewed at near boiling temperature, to prevent injuries to anyone who might spill it on themselves businesses could not serve hot tea freshly brewed at all. If it was a toddler served a cup full of near boiling water you could say the business was negligent. But you'd expect a 70 something year old to be fully aware that a hot beverage can cause burns if spilled on you, and take the necessary precautions.

11 grand isn’t that bad, especially for 8 days in the hospital and that giant skin graft, and if that was before insurance then the cost is way lower than that

@@BigUriel, um, they burned about 700 other people, including one other woman who got 3rd degree burns and successfully sued. Mrs. Liebeck did admit fault but, at the end of the day, McDonald's had no earthly business selling coffee at the temperature. Adding insult to injury, the amount they gave her was a pittance; Her medical bills were about $22k and they tried to give her $800. Another thing I should point out is that, considering how terrible her injuries were from just spilling it on herself, it would have been much worse if she drank it at that temperature.

Tokuijin - McDonald’s didn’t burn anybody. They burned themselves, by being stupid.

Denis O'Brien - it is not the level of damages that makes a lawsuit “frivolous”.

It still is pretty hot, but I guess it’s hot enough to cause third degree burns. That just sounds insane.

Then you got a freshly brewed pot. So no shit it's hot. All freshly brewed coffee are as hot as McDonald's and always been that way.

You mean like them brewing hot coffee that is.......ya know......Hot??

Sharkie626 It was way too hot. Coffee that can induce 3rd degree Bruns in a second is undrinkable. It almost killed her and cost way over 10k of bills, numerous skin grafts, etc. It was bad enough that it shortened her life. We are not talking about hot coffee, child. We are talking of a known safety issue. Just because it's coffee doesn't give them the right to serve something THEY KNEW was dangerous.

Kendrahf The degree of burns was because of her sweatpants. They absorbed the coffee and held it to her skin for a long period of time. Also, their coffee temperatures were within industry standards. So I guess no places at all should serve hot coffee, because it's dangerous? Go brew some coffee at home, and try drinking it right after it has finished brewing. I don't think it will go well for you.

Sharkie626 The coffee wasn't brewing or just brewed. That was the temp they kept it at. Her clothes don't matter either. Hello, not many people go to McDs nekked. There was at least 800 other complaints of the temp, which means thousands of other burns unreported. This was a KNOWN issue. This woman had the bad fortune to be the worst. Her clothes nor industry standards don't change that. Industry standards used to put formaldehyde in food as a preservative too, until people petitioned for that shit to stop.

Kendrahf Where did I say people go to McDonalds naked, or even remotely use it as an example? When you serve billions of people a year, there will be some instances with people having coffee-related problems. It is unavoidable. I am very sure places like Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts, Panera, and other companies have had such things happen. Each way could be different. Maybe it was by accident, or maybe people were just being completely careless with what they were doing, who knows? Again, their temperatures (whether it be brewing, or serving) were not in any sort of violation of standards. Yes, what happened to the woman was very unfortunate, and I am by no means saying "she deserved it" but it was NOT McDonalds fault. Maybe one thing that could have helped is if the grandson helped her do whatever she was trying to do with the coffee. Maybe he did, and she declined, who knows. But wherever you get your coffee from, I would NEVER consider putting a cup on my lap or between my legs. Lid or no lid.

What’s the story behind that?

I hope you didn't take the lid off and place it between your leggs for safe keeping.

That is so true!

So are you saying that you would've sued Ford?

nocalsteve I wouldn't have sued anyone for my own stupidity

coffee that is hot enough to give you third degree burns is obviously too hot to serve. Like you've never spilled koolaid on yourself before..

*"Like you've never spilled koolaid on yourself before.."* Oh, I've done all sorts of stupid stuff before. Some of which resulted in an ER admission. What I've NEVER done, is blame somebody else for my own stupidity.

Renier Bonthuyzen I hope you learn to read my dude

Kaori Smith What the hell is that supposed to mean. Ha ha ha. I am sure you could supply me of evidence where I was not able to do just that. I've been reading since I was 4. How about you?

MCDONALDS DIDNT SPILL THE COFFEE ON HER, SHE SPILLED THE COFFEE ON HERSELF, AND THE COFFEE WASNT EVEN AS HOT AS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

Centiro X: WRONG. This video conveniently left out that particular location of *McDonald's had numerous complaints about the temperature of their coffee being too hot BEFORE this incident happened and was much hotter than what you'd receive at any other location of McDonalds*. Considering that they used direct quotes from court documents, I can only assume that information was left out on purpose and this is nothing more than corporate propaganda. The propaganda message? McDonald's did nothing wrong, but a few people in head office were punished by the jury because they were simply cold hearted, and to not bother suing them, because you won't get the money you seek. Then you are reminded that if you do, you'll probably get ridiculed nationally for your effort. It's a passive aggressive propaganda message.

BBS narky source?

That's not exactly true. Coffee is 99 parts water for every 1 part coffee solid. Coffee solids fall into two categories, Oils and alkaloids. Alkaloids (like caffeine) are water soluble, oils can only be expressed from the grounds using heat. Alkaloids give coffee it's kick and Oils give it it's rich flavor and aroma. For a decent cup of coffee you need to brew it at a temp of at least 200 degrees, most is brewed at around 212.

Actually the opposite is true. The hotter the brew the more flavorful the coffee. Today typical coffee makers brew coffee between 180-190 degrees Fahrenheit. Now if you don't have a taste for coffee that's fine but to coffee lovers like me, temperature is very important the quality of the brew.

@MCDoW,, Congratulations! You now have my vote for KZfaq's a$$hole of the year award! You can pick up your Preparation H prize at the door. Don't forget your coffee!

Kelsey Matthews I heard that it is that because people usually drive away or wait to drink it so it is hot so it isn't cold when they drink it later

Kelsey Matthews You're roast was hotter than MC Donald's coffee

You're very welcome :-)

It was Matthew Santoro who got the coffee lady story wrong, and a week or so later that whole thing that blew up last year blew up. This is my first video by this gentleman and I do get a giggle out of rob dyke most of the time :D

Had to look up Santoro. Christ, I think I lost a few brain cells just looking at his face. Why do popular KZfaqrs act like their target audience never left middle school?

Same reason we look at cats. :)

It was also recommended by the coffee machine maker that the temperature MCD wanted would be dangerous to anyone making the coffee and people receiving it. However, MCD disregarded the advise. That was also another nail in this coffee case for them. They also forced the women to sign an ND agreement and MCD PR team went to town.

Yeah man very very sad. Very very sad. Too bad he didn't add every single detail. Sad day 😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢

This makes it much sadder

This makes it much sadder

Damn. So many things to go wrong.

Someone else posted about the cups as well. They were pretty horrible during the time this occurred. The tops were very flimsy and didn't seal very well.

Yeah but she was like, 70 and left the clothes with the near boiling coffee on her skin so the burns were a lot worse.

I wouldn't say that 'she left the clothes on her skin' so much as, 'in the three seconds that it took for the coffee to destroy her skin, she didn't have time to respond, get out of her car, and remove her pants.' Three seconds of sudden, screaming pain before being able to realize wtf is happening, come up with a plan of action, and then execute, isn't much of a response time.

Hot coffee becomes unpalatable at 'safe' temperatures, so nobody would buy it. They sell hot coffee hot because that is what customers want, she did order it. McDonald's is now as they were then inline with industry standards. All of their competitors like Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts, et al all have the potential to burn. In fact they have all been sued as well. Even coffee made at home is dangerous to a negligent consumer. But again people wouldn't drink it at safe temperatures.

MrNateSPF So you literally have to burn your mouth for it to taste good? No wonder I dislike coffee.

Not to mention that the courts DID apportion her 20% of the blame for spilling the coffee anyway. Amazing how people always forget that when they try to argue that being the reason why McDonald's should be protected from criticism for what happened to Liebeck.

The perfect cup generally requires water to be heated anywhere from 195-205 degrees. Serving a cup at 180 is by no means irrational. Yeah they should've shown more compassion, but these complaints of a hot drink being hot are ridiculous.

About three minutes if a fondue pot is any indication.

Aww man I try to be careful around my son I don't even eat with a fork while holding him in case he leans in and stabs his eye

My little brother did that too but with ramen.

Did you sue that cup of coffee? We wouldn't want cups of coffee just randomly spilling themselves, right?

Did you sue???

@@stevestevens8749Sue whom? Her mom?

This is the second worst verdict a Jury has handed out in many years. I normally wouldn't side with a corporation, but this was a real travesty of justice.

David Byrne Coffee hot enough to give someone third degree burns and $11k in surgery should never be served in the first place.

The law is there to ensure that inherently powerful companies actually abide by their duty of care towards the not-powerful individuals who are actually handing over money for a service. If McDonald's have failed in taking all reasonable steps to make their coffee "As safe as reasonably possible, while still fulfilling the service"

Except that 400 cups of coffee that burn someone versus 4 billion cups of coffee that don't shows that it is fine. It is stupid to think otherwise. Just because an incredibly small amount of people get a burn doesn't mean that they should change anything, I got a chemical burn from dish soap before, I was washing dishes too long without gloves, should I sue the company, no because I wasn't being careful.

@Leedsmanc, they do add sugar themselves, they always have, you just have to ask them, they shouldn't have to put a warning label because it is logical that coffee is hot, you can feel how hot it is when you touch the cup. It was her not being careful enough, if she was parked with someone else in the car, would it not be safer to have someone else remove the lid and hold it for her while she adds the additives to the drink?

Do you even know what tempature coffee comes out of the peculator at? No? I didn't think so. Water tempature needs to be between 195 and 200 degrees F. So it wasn't OVERLY hot, it was regular tempature for coffee brewing.

MrThetronica (gasp) A wild jackass appeared! He doesn't know how to politely correct people! He just has to act all smug and like everyone around him is just _so fucking stupid_. Because he's the only smart person here. Should I address you with a capital He, considering how highly you think of yourself? All you had to say was "Actually, coffee comes out of the peculator at 195 and 200*F, so that wasn't overly hot, it was just regular temperature" instead if being a gigantic douchebag.

Ellie F Interesting, a feint to attack me. Interesting, how is it that I was being a jackass? Was your Coffee being borderline burnt? No, I was simply stating a fact, that many people don't realize. McDonalds was keeping coffee at a normal level that hell even Starbucks keeps it at. Should I even care what you think? You simply stated that it doesn't need to be that hot, or questioned why it was that hot. I stated it peculates at the temperatures listed. That is what it comes out at. Meaning they had it at regular serving temperature.

McDonald's argument was that the majority of its coffee drinkers, at least at that particular location, purchased their coffee via the drive-thru on their way to work. The higher temperature allowed for the coffee to cool so that by the time the people made it to their places of work, it would be drinkable. One of the misleading things in this case is that the argument was actually over holding temperature, and mostly brewing temperatures are cited. It is correct that a good cup of coffee needs to be brewed at a high temperature, but even McDonald's admitted that the coffee was not consumable immediately. The holding temperatures were allowed to be set by the individual store owners/managers. The one in question knew his customers preferred it hot for the reasons stated above. McDonalds also encouraged a high holding temperature because the hotter coffee wafted throughout the restaurant more, enticing more people to buy coffee. The bean counters decided that it was cheaper to simply pay off the "frivolous" lawsuits rather than make changes. In business most decisions are financial decisions.

A lot of people get their coffee to go and not with the intention to drink it right away. When you are at the drive through and get coffee with your meal it would make sense to serve it at a much higher temperature so it is not cold by the time you have finished your meal. Now I'm not a coffee drinker myself but as far as I know most people seem to want their coffee piping hot so it will not turn lukewarm immediately.

The pants she was wearing held the coffee to her skin for an extended amount of time. If it were a younger person (and no I'm not blaming her age), they probably would have gotten up quickly as a result from it to try to shake it off themselves.

You get your coffee at around the same temperature everywhere because thats how you make coffee and also because cold coffee sucks. Did this lady that lived on earth for a hundred years not know fresh coffee is hot? She was negligent with a hot fluid and hurt herself. McDonalds might be assholes in many ways but this was not their fault in the slightest.

Most people aren't drinking the coffee immediately. The coffee is made hot and then the customer allows the beverage to cool down to the temperature that they find ideal.

@@bobbyb6053 then why is iced coffee so popular? Just saying, you can't say it sucks when lots of people buy it cold.

She also had severe genital burns...lady bits are a little more sensitive than thighs.

When I worked at Starbucks a lady ordered hot chocolate for what looked like a 10 year old kid. I asked if she wanted the kid's hot chocolate. She said no, regular. Bigger size, regular temp; 160 or so. Well, she brought it back and told me; make it over, it's too hot! I said, or you could just wait a few minutes. She looked at me like I was crazy "He wants to drink it NOW." Right in front of the kid. Raising monsters.

Elizabeth Richards I’m not sure why you’re so aggressive with your response- I’m just going by what a barista had told me. There’s truly no call for insults over a comment I made a year ago.

Elizabeth Richards I was speaking of coffee in general; I’ve never ordered coffee from McDonald’s. Throughout the comments section, you’ll notice many others talking about coffee in general and from other companies. Also, sorry you feel the need to be overtly boorish to strangers on the internet. I hope your day gets better!

Elizabeth Richards bitch get a grip. We get it, you eat McDonald’s everyday and want to flex that you know their practices who cares. Her opinion was valid and it was a good suggestion. You’re weird.

Elizabeth Richards yeah I’m not going to get McDonald’s coffee. This video was about multiple subjects: lawsuits, media, coffee, McDonald’s and even seeing Simon without a beard. Not every comment must be about all of these and kids temp is great for those that want slightly cooler coffee (it really is a “thing”) that many folks don’t know about. I just find it odd that you focused on my comment about coffee to shit on but I get the feeling you just enjoy shitting on strangers online in general. If that’s what must be done to feel valid... good luck with that.

You don't, but a lot of people add cold cream to their coffee so the temperature is immediately lowered.

It was between 82 and 87 celcius, I don't know about coffee, but it is recommended to have 97 degree hot water for making black tea, i'm guessing coffee has the same properties. I bet it was made from a machine, and not drip coffee kept in a more temperate container, but served right after it was made.

JGravn With tea though you steep for 3 - 5 minutes. The temperature falls quite rapidly making the tea considerably cooler when served.

JGravn what Rathem mc said and also the brewing temperature for coffee is lower than tea because if it's too hot it scalds the beans and makes it bitter

Leo Wang it's met to stay hot during your drive to work or home.

lol, the styrofoam clam-shells. The little golden disposable ashtrays...

In the 80's when people smoked indoors.

Myna Detail Styrofoam clam-shell _burger_ containers. The ashtrays were aluminum.

The temperature specs are now as the were then similar to Starbucks, and they are that way as an overwhelming majority of customers want their hot coffee hot. Those who do not want hot coffee should not order it, and above all do not pour hot coffee on yourself.

Sorry Sir, we cannot sell you this coffee we just made. Please come back in 10 minutes when it has cooled off.

ShiningDialga the reason is because they give free refills if you have it inside so if they have it scolding hot then there is a much slimmer chance of a refill because who wants to spend that long in a mcdonalds

I'd guess it's partly because people that put milk and sugar on their coffee want it to still be hot after that.

HenryLoenwind C'mon, that's dumb. Brew it, let it cool a few degrees, then sell it.

Dad_a_Monk That woman was fucking stupid for putting it between her legs..how FUCKING STUPID DO YOU NEED TO BE TO DO THAT.

DieHardjagged ...Sounds like you're an expert on stupid, by your comment. So I guess you would know. Of course I'm not sure what an 80 something year old woman was supposed to do in a car with no cup holders and nowhere to set the cup. You making it sound like it was all her fault, just makes so much more sense.

Dad_a_Monk the woman was old enough to KNOW that shit like this could happen. Entirely her fault.

its next level clusmy to dump coffee on yourself in still car. Then to keep on pants after you dump it

DieHardjagged. How old was she 89? I know much younger people that barley know how to tie thier shoes.

It's what we do here. :-)

What temperature to you (personally) brew, and drink your coffee at, when you make it yourself? (you may need a candy thermometer for this)

Today I Found Out no you didn't, you clearly don't fucking understand the case and you still suffered from victim blaming syndrome

People wanted the coffee hot because if it's served at a drinkable temperature then anyone driving home or to work or walking anywhere would have cold coffee by the time they arrived. McDonalds serves the coffee at this temperature because it's what the customers want. That's why they were unwilling to change the temperature, the demand was for hot coffee that was drinkable in 5-10 minutes not cold coffee in 5-10 minutes.

You're not supposed to chug coffee, in the first place.

I guess that depends on if you're just looking for a caffeine rush or you actually like the taste. Personally, I live to savor mine.

CrazyBear65 I like to drink mine at 180 degrees

Also, only troglodytes ruin nice coffee by scalding it.

I'm amazed at that also. Funny thing, I was having dinner at my Moms and she had made soup. She had eaten over half her soup before I could barely begin to eat it because It was so hot. I even asked her how she can eat such hot things. Of course, she had no answer to this. Would be interesting to find out why though.

You can't. Most people are pansies and put creamer in their coffee so it cools down. I drink it black so I have to wait a few minutes before I can even sip it.

Oh you're so tough, if you weren't such a pansy you wouldn't wait for it to cool down.

it does absolutely nothing. I've actually had coffee burn my hands and face but do nothing to my lips or the rest of my mouth.

Coffee at 180 degrees causes 3rd degree burns *if exposed to the skin for an extended period of time, and so does coffee at lower temperatures too.* Fixed it for you. Hot coffee becomes unpalatable at 'safe' temperatures. They serve it at the temperature that pleases the most customers, as all hot coffee has the potential to burn "idiotproof" is not an option.

I didn't know McDonald's employees could add.

DesertBoss he meant advertising

DiamondDuckDude that's google add, and of nature on what you have scored interested in.

Run adblock...no ads for me

DiamondDuckDude I got a Nespresso coffee add. Lol

To properly brew coffee you need a temperature of around 200-205 degrees Fahrenheit. That's simply the best way to get proper brewing to occur in such a short time. Cold brewing requires cool or cold water over several hours.

As it was also stated that lowering it so much would reduce quality and that other places that serve coffee ALSO serve it at the higher temperatures. 200-205 degrees is the ideal but an auto drip machine or similar does make coffee at slightly lower temperatures, which would explain why the McDonalds coffee would be at about 190. It's not that you can't make coffee it's the quality of the coffee which is affected by granule size and water temperature.

It has to be hot to absorb the flavor from the powder from coffee beans. Same with tea.

here is the proper solution to making coffee that doesn't violently eject steam when moved: you let the finished cofee through a tube which is surrounded by a spiral through which cold water flows in before it goes into the heating unit of the coffee machine. basically it goes through the coffe powder hot, and goes out the bottom at will not melt the tastebuds off your toung hot. also who gives a crap about quality coffee at a drive through restaurant? no sane person would drink that shit water unless you are an addict in desperate need for a fix in which case serving it at drinking temperature makes all the more sense.

Because cold coffee is disgusting, coffee tastes best at temperature of 190, right after brewing at 202 degree, if they restaurant or café serve me a coffee colder than 180, I will ask for refund or redo. Except milk based drink which should best served at temperature of 160-165, since milk would lose its flavour if too high. However the espresso shot would still be around 200 itself though.

Coffee is hot. If you want cold beverages, McDonald's has plenty of them.

I take a cup of coffee "FUCK ITS TOO HOT! I BETTER POUR IT ALL OVER MYSELF" "FUCK MCDONALDS THE BOILED COFFEE IS BOILING ME???" SUE PHYSICS

You act like it was intentional, Jesus Christ grow up

+Kserijaro - The coffee almost killed her. It's funny how, if you buy a car with a malfunctioning part and it maims or kills you (or a family member) because of that, no one bats an eye. But with coffee it become 'frivolous'. She bought the coffee to drink and they gave her something that would induce 3rd degree burns in a second. That's about as malfunctioning a product as you can get.

how is that malfunctioning? coffee is made by boiling water? it's more like buying a new car and after you drive into a wall you sue the company because they weren't able to avoid it.

A high brewing temperature allows for higher solubility of desired chemicals from coffee beans--including, notably, caffeine. Cool coffee is less caffeinated than hot coffee. As someone who views coffee primarily as a "caffeine delivery system," I want my coffee made as hot as humanly possible.

Espresso tastes like burnt mud

Mcdonald does have espresso machines ... for espressos, not regular coffee.

I wonder if there are FDA regulations as to how hot beverages can be brewed, and then served under commercial sales. There are many a company that has to walk the tightrope where tip to one side, and face lawsuits, and tip the other, face the wrath of government.

I can, and do.

i mean it was probably the loss of the fatty tissue of the skin the subcutaneous layer that is burn in the third degree burn and the body does actually burns more calory while trying to heal

Thanks friend I didn't catch that the first time. I am way, over weight, and have lost forty pounds this year. I now have a back up plan if I can't drop fifty this year.

Probably because there's no McDonald's in that hospital.

+Halcyonacoustic Your last sentence is the largest factor in weight loss during a stay in hospital. Your body consumes a lot of energy to heal and nobody goes to the hospital when they're healthy so it stands to reason that people lose weight while in the hospital. Add to that the fact that most hospitals have rather nasty food made on the cheap and portion sizes are tiny and voila... weightloss baby!!!

scott thompson true when I was in the hospital I lost good weight from my surgery then I gained it back :(

To make coffee you have to boil water. Water boils at 212 degrees f. The american coffee association recommends coffee be served at 200 degrees (20 degrees hotter than this lady was served). A survey of restaurants in her area showed ALL restaurants served their coffee within a 10 degree range of what she was served. Coffee is a hot product, it's designed that way.

Yeah, and you can't drink it when it's that hot. Chicken should be fried at 300 degrees, but you're not going to find a place that serves it anywhere close to that hot because that would be stupid and dangerous.

it is. People usually DRINK their home coffee at around 130 or so (achieved by it cooling a bit while it accumulates in your pot while the freshly brewed coffee in the coffee maker drips in new hot coffee that mixes to keep temperatures kind of up). So while you have to make it high, it doesn't stay there.

the oil in the fryers is well over 300 degrees, but when you account for breading, you have insulation. the actual meat gets as hot as 180-200 degrees after cooking, and is served no colder than 140.

You're an idiot...

Do the people in class often come to the same conclusion?

@@mjames7674 Does it matter?

@@gingataisen Maybe not to some, but I like to gain perspective of different angles of any situation so I don't become trapped in an ideological echo chamber.

Yes. Very sensible. That is what I have done for different things too. On another point, my mother, being Irish and well used to tea, has as she terms it an "asbestos mouth" and can pretty much drink boiling water from the kettle, and likes her drinks as hot as possible. In fact, 180F is getting a bit cold for her. 160 and she would send it back.

Rodney Kingston no ice is nasty make my coffee hot please

Seeped inside her body?

@@frazlaz seeped isn't the right word. It was a paper cup. The cup actually came apart in her lap. 16oz of near boiling liquid on her thighs labia and ass, and seatbelts in. Coffee was on the insides of her labia also, not just the outside.

Lets all drink cold coffee then, and sue all the richest companies when we don't want to bother paying for our own healthcare anymore.

Remember. Trump just got elected. The country seems full of people who want a pathological liar as their leader, are indifferent to facts and lack compassion for others.

While brewing needs to be done at that temperature in order to extract the coffee oils, you STORE coffee hot in order to maintain freshness. You can't drink it at that temperature, or you'll end up burning the inside of your mouth. As such, it's a cost-savings measure that allows them to not have to throw out stale coffee as often, not a benefit to the customer. A solution would be to cool it down right before serving - such as by adding a small ice cube right before putting the lid on. (Or alternately, brewing it really strong, then adding a bit of cold water right before giving it to the customer.)

First of all your coffee shouldn't be that hot because it burn the coffee. Also should not be that hot because YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO FUCKING DRINK IT.

Kuhaku I've went to countless coffee spots where I get coffee that's way too fucking hot. If you fuck up, you fuck up, not the company.

PlakkieKaas I understand that, but I've already been to a coffee shop where the cup was so well isolated that it felt like a drinkable temperature and the sip I took burned my taste for 3 days.. That's was just like.. wtf. not even a " danger, coffee is lava hot " "cup might feel normal but coffe is undrinkable ". It's like when you are at the restaurant, when you take a steak you expect it to be eatable right away. At least in most restaurant coffee is drinkable right away.

MegaKaitouKID1412

MegaKaitouKID1412 oh

MegaKaitouKID1412 I see. So the takeaway is always let your date add the pasta.

not about taste, but if you drive someplase else, it still has to be hot

"Total BS." For me, the hotter, the better.

All hot coffee has the potential to burn you, it becomes unpalatable at 'safe' temperatures. If you were negligent and careless even the coffee you brew at home would burn if allowed contact with skin in sensitive areas for an extended period of time (just like the woman in this case).

Happened in 1992 though I think.

The car wasn't really modern.