Warning For America: Corrupt Government, Rich, Poor, Trump Verdict & 2024 Election | Michael Malice

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Tom Bilyeu

Tom Bilyeu

Күн бұрын

Thank you to today’s sponsors:
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Welcome to Impact Theory, I’m Tom Bilyeu and in today’s episode my guest Michael Malice and I dive deep into the realm of societal norms, politics, and cultural dynamics to help you break free from the "factory settings" of default societal beliefs.
Michael Malice is widely known as an anarchist, author, and podcaster who challenges conventional views on political authority. Through his work, he pushes for a deeper understanding of the structures that govern us.
Together, we debate the impact of governmental actions on society, delve into the psychological underpinnings of human behavior, and ponder the potential of anarchism as a viable societal framework.
We also touch on:
- Transient cultural issues like transgender bathrooms and miniskirts
- Peoples’ resistance to thinking beyond societal norms
- Effectiveness of inflicting personal consequences in political change
- Mao, North Korea, and USSR historical context
- Implications of an anarchist system
- Voting as a ritual versus a practical tool for change
- Inevitability of hierarchy
- Anarchism and political legitimacy
- Thinking from first principles
- Intellectual curiosity in communication
- Armed populations as a defense against government overreach
- The status-seeking nature of humans and its manipulation
- Media narratives and trust
- Human behavior and political dynamics
- Risk of global hegemony and practical limitations
Whether you're a skeptic or an advocate of anarchism, prepare to have your beliefs examined and your assumptions questioned.
CHAPTER MARKERS:
[0:00] Anarchism & the idea of “better”
[42:33] Safety over freedom
[1:23:53] Understanding motivations and predicting behaviors
[1:44:12] public displays can change mindsets
[2:28:38] Living an honorable life
[2:48:21] Climate change activism and global cooperation
[3:09:47] Approach life with a yes or no
POWERFUL QUOTES FROM Michael Malice:
"I think the world would be a lot better place if more people understood that political authority is inherently illegitimate and that we are all individually responsible and accountable for our lives and for our communities and things like that."
"Because instead of wondering why the Republicans doing this, why the Democrats doing this, you know, a, it's for power, and you also know, b, they don't believe what they're saying even as they're saying it."
"Americans are still fundamentally naive about the nature of evil. Americans, maybe westerners more broadly, think evil is someone with a wacky mustache pounding a podium, talking in a crazy language. They don't realize evil is that next door neighbor who will be delighted to turn on you and your families, the cops, simply because it's going to make them feel important."
"Isn't it so much better when you win peacefully? Isn't it so much better when there aren't millions of dead people and orphans and widows, when the bad guys just go home and they're like, you know what? It's a wrap. And just overnight things get freed."
"Corporate America has done a far better job of promoting Maoism than the Chinese Communist Party ever dared dream because capitalism is so efficient."
"My opponents don't value my life at all, or they see the world in ways that are so fundamentally opposed to my own that there's really no point in talking, because even best intentions, we're gonna be talking past each other."
"There's lots of people who'd rather be poor and freer and live in a country that aligns more with their values than wealthier and subjugated."
Follow Michael Malice:
Website: malice.locals.com/
X: x.com/michaelmalice
KZfaq: / @michaelmaliceofficial
Follow Me, Tom Bilyeu:
Website: impacttheoryuniversity.com/
X: / tombilyeu
Instagram: / tombilyeu
If you want to dive deeper into my content, search through every episode, find specific topics I've covered, and ask me questions. Go to my Dexa page: dexa.ai/tombilyeu
Themes: Mindset, Finance, World Affairs, Health & Productivity, Future & Tech, Simulation Theory & Physics, Dating & Relationships

Пікірлер: 1 900
@TomBilyeu
@TomBilyeu Ай бұрын
WARNING: I will NEVER ask for your contact info in the comments section, that is someone impersonating me!
@lilamnbdh967
@lilamnbdh967 Ай бұрын
Goodmorning Tom Thank you for sharing this interesting conversation 🙏❤️
@miguelmgmode
@miguelmgmode Ай бұрын
There was no election interference. Trump has been engaged in criminal activities for decades. The election was not stolen, and insurrectionists are not patriots, Russia is not our friend. It’s that simple.
@ph8077
@ph8077 Ай бұрын
That's all very well but at least say thanks for the $10k I sent you. EDIT: Uh-oh, this is the internet, I'd better add this....😁
@richardbourque5604
@richardbourque5604 Ай бұрын
I might though.
@Kobby405
@Kobby405 Ай бұрын
Tom Pin the comment
@rosskirkwood8411
@rosskirkwood8411 Ай бұрын
Upton Sinclair once said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
@Misinformed_lol
@Misinformed_lol Ай бұрын
Thank you for that quote ✌️
@BIGDAWG-xk3rp
@BIGDAWG-xk3rp 28 күн бұрын
Crazy 😂
@joshuacornelius25
@joshuacornelius25 25 күн бұрын
A poignant illustration of this idea is Tom's failure to understand or even recognize his unconscious obsession with and insistence on identifying with the collective "we". The anarchist philosophy values individual responsibility as fundamental and sees subjugation to the oppressive collective as fundamentally evil. Michael is trying to nudge Tom to recognize this principle because he knows that principles can be defined but will never be understood until they are discovered for oneself.... Especially when dealing with deeply rooted indoctrination.
@StubbsMillingCo.
@StubbsMillingCo. 14 күн бұрын
Sinclair was one of the men who lied to produce the USDA and FDA. Along with Dr. Harvey Wiley- who worked for the Bureau of Chemistry and coherced the government into allowing food colorings to be accepted. These 2 gentlemen acted on LIES to the American people that “small butchers processorsand meat packers were supplying meats and meat products containing human remains. There was NEVER any test ran nor any conclusion to prove there were. They attacked small farmers butchers and packers until they shut their doors. Sinclair pushed their socialism through “The Jungle” his most praised work…… this book explains their thinking in the meat industry and their thinking on communities all together. This caused meat prices to drop 50% in 6 months in some areas ONCE The Jungle was published!!! Do not quote Sinclair unless you KNOW his work. He was a socialist so was Wiley and neither of them were doctors nor had any proper accreditation to even make the claims they made in 1906!!!!!!! Now “consumers had more trust in meat distributors”… yet they had the upmost respect and loyalty to their local farmers butchers and packers from the start. They all needed each other. The cities then expanded and the “need for these government managed/overseen farmers and distributors” by consumers. Yet it is difficult to understand these things when you have never discovered these things but quote socialist on a video pertaining the ideas and philosophy of Anarchism…. You don’t understand do you?
@StubbsMillingCo.
@StubbsMillingCo. 14 күн бұрын
@@Misinformed_lolwhy are you thanking them for quoting a socialist who destroyed the meat industry and what it meant to be a farmer and producer for your community?? Oh you also do not understand who Sinclair was nor Wiley or any of the things they did to maintain government control on your food.
@NathanCline12-21
@NathanCline12-21 Ай бұрын
"Anarchy is no guarantee that some people won't kill, injure, kidnap, defraud, or steal from others. Government is a guarantee that some will." Gustave de Molinari
@julierackow8964
@julierackow8964 Ай бұрын
That's funny 🤣
@NathanCline12-21
@NathanCline12-21 Ай бұрын
​@julierackow8964 name a government that doesn't kill, injure, kidnap, defraud or steal from it's people
@Mrguy-ds9lr
@Mrguy-ds9lr Ай бұрын
Really? I guarantee anarchy will. History proves it. That's why government was made, everywhere, in every place every people had some form of government. It's a natural step.
@NathanCline12-21
@NathanCline12-21 Ай бұрын
​@@Mrguy-ds9lryou have it backwards
@Mrguy-ds9lr
@Mrguy-ds9lr Ай бұрын
@NathanCline12-21 what? My pants? Warm it up chris!
@sherryberry4577
@sherryberry4577 Ай бұрын
"im not brave enough to be a coward, i see the consequences too clearly" is the Ayn Rand quote.
@AliBooondok
@AliBooondok Ай бұрын
Malice makes some of the best podcasts. I love how he is able to challenge the discussion and he does it so eloquently.
@jwt155
@jwt155 Ай бұрын
It’s interesting hearing engaging philosophical conversations
@PhillyCYOSports
@PhillyCYOSports Ай бұрын
He's hacky
@hamidhamidi3134
@hamidhamidi3134 Ай бұрын
I actually have lived in a society with no government. It is absolutely free but it is very vulnerable.
@Scorch428
@Scorch428 Ай бұрын
I find it odd that Malice understands American govt propaganda, not to trust the News, spinning things, etc, yet he still believes history happened exactly the way he was taught. We cant all agree on what happened last WEEK....what makes him so sure he knows what happened decades ago? Or millenia ago? He doesnt realize that that was likely spun too? Someone as smart as Malice should be able to see that.
@eriklondon2946
@eriklondon2946 Ай бұрын
@@Scorch428 What are you talking about? His book the White Pill is 100% a telling of the truth, despite all of the American Leftist propaganda and lies that hide how many millions of people died under communism. Have you never heard him before? Have you never questioned why the gang of the US Government put anthrax in a phone booth close to the building where they keep it, to try to scares us into +$7 Trillion of warfare that we are still paying for to this day? How they used the war to steal more of your rights through the Patriot Act? What are you even talking about. They talk about the violent gang that calls itself our government.
@elliotcrane
@elliotcrane Ай бұрын
Malice is enormously patient in explaining the same thing to everyone over and over. The „it’s already everywhere and we’re engaging in it right now” thing.
@kailaleebabineau3962
@kailaleebabineau3962 Ай бұрын
Because it's a clever semantic game but ultimately impractical and people intuit this. Malice gets to feel intellectually superior while reasonable people understand it's nonsense even if they can't articulate it.
@erinwys216
@erinwys216 Ай бұрын
​@@kailaleebabineau3962it's not impractical. We are ingrained to default to a government or someone in power with thinking about how 'the world should work'. Anarchy isn't a government, it's voluntary relationships. Try to make a connecting thread to all the relationships you have in your life from the person who gives you change at a convenience store to your spouse. None of them are the same or have an exact formula, and that's a concept people have trouble grasping.
@johndamascus6039
@johndamascus6039 Ай бұрын
Try telling someone to do homework about the BTC network and what it is (the ascendancy which they will see soon in even their lifetime), only to find that even with everything to gain they'll still ignore you. I used to be patient with that, and now I don't have the time for it. But Michael is a speaker for a living, so it behooves him more. I generally agree with Michael but realize that ultimately I can only help people by physical actions/deeds or by praying, which I hope Michael ultimately comes to realize.
@eriklondon2946
@eriklondon2946 Ай бұрын
And I love him for hit. His long-suffering is our learning for the first time. He is trying to help us re-learn what comes naturally. I am eternally grateful for this mind.
@elliotcrane
@elliotcrane Ай бұрын
@@kailaleebabineau3962 To call it a semantic game can actually be semantic game itself, but lets not go there. "WE" need thinkers to do what they do while rest of the work is on us.
@DawnTrelawney
@DawnTrelawney Ай бұрын
This has got to be one of the most interesting conversations I've watched on your channel. Thank you!
@hardstyle8184
@hardstyle8184 Ай бұрын
most confusing you mean
@moharak
@moharak 16 күн бұрын
Yeah. Im listeningbat 4 AM half asleep and am like wow.
@Snappypantsdance
@Snappypantsdance 3 күн бұрын
So far, I’m hearing a lot of words, but so far, not useful info….
@fire_n_ice1984
@fire_n_ice1984 Ай бұрын
Coworker 20yrs ago suggested Alex Jones to me, I then found Ron Paul, Directed me to Tom Woods, which led me to the Mises institute, in turn I found Michael Malice. Journey totally worth it.
@jetorixjones
@jetorixjones 14 күн бұрын
What, no Dave Smith? You missed out on some great comedy 😉
@riledmouse4677
@riledmouse4677 13 күн бұрын
I came by Malice through an entirely different route, but his perspective has greatly broadened my mind and enriched my life and I’m eternally grateful for all his hard work.
@architektura204
@architektura204 Ай бұрын
The Gulag Archipelago is an epic story of my grandfather’s hell and other millions like him. It took me 6 months to read it in small portions so my heart would not break. I knew very little from my grandfather because after he was released, he had to agree that he would never talk about it. He said very little; that he was there 6 years, that only 20% survived, that it was so cold that by the time spit reached the ground, it was already frozen, that the food portions were 1/2 pond of bread and one herring a day, that they worked cutting wood, berried dead bodies only in summer months when the ground was not frozen. He did not say more, but he screamed in his sleep often.Only after he died, my grandmother said that people there ate dead people. His greatest wish for us was that his grandchildren would never be hungry. I, on the other hand always knew that you should always be the most aware of your stupid neighbors. Stories of the Gulag Archipelago's caliber could caution privileged generations who never had to experience the horrors of what humans can do to one another. Perhaps the eyes could be open then, and gratitude, respect, grace, kindness, and generosity would have a chance to develop.
@rosesoulis1840
@rosesoulis1840 Ай бұрын
It is happening NOW in CHINA AND NORTH KOREA AND IRAN
@joancaouette1125
@joancaouette1125 Ай бұрын
Well said.
@karimwylde2987
@karimwylde2987 Ай бұрын
Propagandist ​@@rosesoulis1840
@joelee4495
@joelee4495 Ай бұрын
Thank you sharing your family's experience, so many people are clueless. More people should read Gulag Archipelago. Most people are too lazy to read 1984 or animal farm.
@hermitkiddd
@hermitkiddd Ай бұрын
Copy pasta?
@Scientist_Salarian
@Scientist_Salarian Ай бұрын
Malice is the best, smartest voice for freedom in the world today.
@Rodrinks82
@Rodrinks82 Ай бұрын
He is annoying AF i unsub this guy, think he is kinda of a farse...and it make sense since anarquism is bul&*@
@brianlau6373
@brianlau6373 Ай бұрын
Capitalist democracy? Only possible in anarchy.
@Pau11Wa11
@Pau11Wa11 Ай бұрын
Dave Smith could very well be right there with him
@Scientist_Salarian
@Scientist_Salarian Ай бұрын
@@Pau11Wa11 Hell yeah, absolutely. Davey Smith was my introduction to MM. And Ol’ Woodsy is how I discovered Dave.
@dralel1381
@dralel1381 Ай бұрын
And you were my introduction to Dave smith!​@@Scientist_Salarian
@tacocat6035
@tacocat6035 Ай бұрын
"Once you introduce women, society is impossible" - Michael Malice
@MechShark
@MechShark Ай бұрын
😂he so casually inserted it, which amplified the landing
@brazoon1
@brazoon1 Ай бұрын
I feel like Tom didn't want to dig any deeper on that assertion. lol
@lukelucy1980
@lukelucy1980 Ай бұрын
@@brazoon1 Even as Tom is exposed to reality, deep thought and the harsh reality of Man & History, he is clinging onto his Woke identity, or he is a Coward. I always like his guests more than him. (even the guests I disagree with, if they present facts, facts is facts,
@darbyohara
@darbyohara Ай бұрын
No lie detected
@maicoolivares6613
@maicoolivares6613 29 күн бұрын
Michael Malice basically saying why he might like men instead of women. It just makes more sense to him if that’s the way he views the world 😂
@jamescoffey2472
@jamescoffey2472 22 күн бұрын
I don’t share the same world view as Michael, yet I enjoy hearing him. He’s very good at pointing out human hypocrisy.
@nickjohns265
@nickjohns265 Ай бұрын
Note: The totalitarian clock turns faster the closer it gets to midnight and if it hits 11:45 in the US, it’s already dawn in Canada.
@fredpsimas1874
@fredpsimas1874 Ай бұрын
Our government is 20x too big! Smaller is better and more free.
@JamarRosales
@JamarRosales Ай бұрын
20x is an understatement, 20,000x, possibly more too big
@moedinkus
@moedinkus Ай бұрын
would it be too democratic to vote on public deletion of all government positions and holders of those positions (notice how I parsed my words so as not be deleted)
@E_Clampus_Vitus
@E_Clampus_Vitus Ай бұрын
Sometimes I wonder if when I talk to a statist, my opinions scare them so much they leave our conversation and proceed to create a LARGER government. 🤔
@Reblwitoutacause
@Reblwitoutacause Ай бұрын
It's infinitely too big, because it exists.
@lukeskywalker1261
@lukeskywalker1261 13 күн бұрын
Our Government has 23.7 million employees 443 agencies with a new agency being created every month... THINK ABOUT THAT! ITS TIME FOR GOVERNMENT TO GO BEFORE IT CONSUMES AND KILLS US ALL...
@BrittCoin
@BrittCoin Ай бұрын
Despite being a subscriber of anything and everything Michael Malice, I often don’t trust my KZfaq algorithm to suggest new videos of him and I have to run a search for him just to be sure. Thank you, Tom, for having him on your show.
@cliffordclark924
@cliffordclark924 29 күн бұрын
😊p😮
@cliffordclark924
@cliffordclark924 29 күн бұрын
L😮p😊
@neondystopian
@neondystopian 25 күн бұрын
I like how Michael is very direct when disagreeing. He doesn't waste time trying to make his argument land softer.
@DoctorMandible
@DoctorMandible Ай бұрын
Host needs to read the Machievellians, which is Malice's top book recommendation. Malice basically just spent 3 hours doing an ad hoc analysis based on that book.
@zyzzer
@zyzzer Ай бұрын
36:56 "if everyone thought like me there would be no murders, no child abuse, no robberies, no theft, and very few rapes." 😂😂😂
@K2mtp
@K2mtp Ай бұрын
That was hilarious!
@k_v_ns
@k_v_ns Ай бұрын
Notice he didn’t say “no” rapes 🤨
@moedinkus
@moedinkus Ай бұрын
that's communism??????????
@jasontueni6795
@jasontueni6795 Ай бұрын
Man that’s cray how he said that with a straight face face
@timothyjohnson4416
@timothyjohnson4416 Ай бұрын
I didn't stick around long enough to see if he called him out on the rape comment
@morganxavier
@morganxavier Ай бұрын
3+ hrs of Michael Malice....yes please!!! ❤❤❤
@ingehanson
@ingehanson Ай бұрын
Sorry, don't have that much time. What is he all about? Can't someone shorten it?
@spencerantoniomarlen-starr3069
@spencerantoniomarlen-starr3069 Ай бұрын
​@@ingehanson no, he's already short enough
@eriklondon2946
@eriklondon2946 Ай бұрын
@@spencerantoniomarlen-starr3069 Pure genius. I tip my hat to you sir.
@Zumbazee34
@Zumbazee34 25 күн бұрын
Tom is a great demonstrator of how to disgree respectfully while having a difficult and passionate conversation about things you really care about. That's a lesson worth watching his videos for in and of itself.
@jerrykinworthy9225
@jerrykinworthy9225 Ай бұрын
America was founded upon a sort of anarchical system. Government power was severely limited to almost zero, and the states ruled themselves with a Government by the people. That is what a government by the people, for the peoples means, a sort of anarchy.
@mudra5114
@mudra5114 20 күн бұрын
You need high quality population for that to work. Something like that will be a disaster in the Third World, where I live.
@chickenbroski99
@chickenbroski99 19 күн бұрын
@@mudra5114 At what point does idiocy and incompetence become such a hamper to others that these people need to be dealt with?
@TheRotbringer
@TheRotbringer Ай бұрын
Freedom is such a silly word to describe America. The highest incarceration rate around the world, and has an institutionalized mass surveillance program (Patriot Act) in the name of freedom.
@rosesoulis1840
@rosesoulis1840 Ай бұрын
How do you know AMERICA has the highest incarceration rate......you are trusting other governments to yell the truth.....that one always makes me laugh
@donventura2116
@donventura2116 Ай бұрын
​@@rosesoulis1840so you believe every country is lying is about their prison populations and incarceration rates? Is the U.S. lying too? Do you have evidence for this?
@JamarRosales
@JamarRosales Ай бұрын
​@@rosesoulis1840The US has privatized prisons. Follow the money and also look into bail bonds also and you yourself will come to the same conclusion.
@Ride-Fly
@Ride-Fly Ай бұрын
Freedom is what America was all about prior to the criminal government
@TheMightyMurse1917
@TheMightyMurse1917 Ай бұрын
Freedom doesn't mean people don't have to follow the rules. It means people get to have a say in what the rules are.
@gregoryhines7
@gregoryhines7 Ай бұрын
"I want a governor who can stand for something" was a great missed joke.
@Mike-zx7lq
@Mike-zx7lq Ай бұрын
Wow, I just understood it after seeing this comment and grinned like an idiot
@Outlawstar0198
@Outlawstar0198 12 күн бұрын
I don't get it 😔
@PantherFantasy
@PantherFantasy 11 күн бұрын
I am pretty sure that it has to do with Greg Abbott, Governor of Texas.
@gregoryhines7
@gregoryhines7 11 күн бұрын
@@Outlawstar0198 Texas governor is in a wheelchair.
@Outlawstar0198
@Outlawstar0198 10 күн бұрын
@@gregoryhines7 holy shit lol
@CrudelyMade
@CrudelyMade 20 күн бұрын
I think Michael is one of the best thinkers of our generation. he's well read, thoughtful, and considerate (in terms of thought).. love this long form discussions he does. :-)
@seanhunt5952
@seanhunt5952 Ай бұрын
I like this guy, Malice. He's very difficult to nail down, argumentative and frustrating. Talking to him seems like playing chess. I would get frustrated and irritated, but I like him because I think he is not harmful and helps people grow.
@RojaJaneman
@RojaJaneman Ай бұрын
Difficulty and irritation r necessary for growth and survival.
@PierzStyx
@PierzStyx Ай бұрын
Correction: He doesn't see the world the way you do. He refuses to simplify the irreducibly complex to create an artifical social construct that justifies a system he knows is wrong.
@seanhunt5952
@seanhunt5952 9 күн бұрын
@PierzStyx so is it that his ideas are irreducibly complex or that he refuses to simplify them? And if you think communication of complex ideas requires creating an artificial social construct, then you are not as intellectually superior as you seem to think, condescending puke. This is not a correction, but a failed attempt at an insult.
@Snappypantsdance
@Snappypantsdance 3 күн бұрын
@@PierzStyx I’m trying to decide if he always argues for a good purpose, or if he sometimes just does it because it’s habit. I have a sister that argues constantly for what she deems necessary, but it’s for social justice. Woke social justice accomplishes wrong ends, yet she argues on and on… I’m wondering if he’s accomplishing changing people’s views for the positive or is it just more words…?
@NoahJulianYoga
@NoahJulianYoga Ай бұрын
One of my most important teachers taught me to eliminate “should” from my vocabulary… As Yoda also said: “do or do not do…” Malice’s instance on not accepting “we” is fundamental to his philosophy “you do not speak for me” …semantics are what allows someone philosophical consistency. Edit: this comment was originally intended as a response to someone complaining about Michael’s semantics… accidentally posted in the main comment section.
@snicklefritzfry
@snicklefritzfry Ай бұрын
He simply believes in the individual over the group.
@eriklondon2946
@eriklondon2946 Ай бұрын
@@snicklefritzfry Agreed, but is he is one of a few voices who realize and enable us to realize that we, the individual, are the beginning of all great movements. If you learn of eastern Asian cultures they will always be 2nd as they as are great collectivist, but not individualist. Most Asian companies are HUGE, and work across many industries, where in the USA we have many individuals companies offering more choice. Because of this individual mistakes are inherently smaller and more quickly forgiven by the market. Thus enabling people to learn more and learn faster.
@Cookingcousin
@Cookingcousin Ай бұрын
But it is semantics, telling podcast listeners they “should floss everyday” is the same thing as telling them “floss everyday”. Being disagreeable is great only when it offers something to the context of the conversation. This is informative content, majority of listeners are here to know what they “should” do.
@geesixnine
@geesixnine Ай бұрын
​@@CookingcousinAnd Malice articulates that with people being wired differently.
@Cookingcousin
@Cookingcousin Ай бұрын
@@geesixnine Hey I’m all for mindfulness of the mouth, but let’s call it was it is. Semantics is semantics.
@larrypettie3022
@larrypettie3022 Ай бұрын
I very much like Michael's train of thought. He very easily demystifies the reasons why many people have limited belief structures. Excellent interview!
@SubvertTheState
@SubvertTheState Ай бұрын
It saved me from so much frustration. I needed to hear it again though because I forgot haha.
@cfwvideos
@cfwvideos Ай бұрын
And so we as Americans were kind to each other during the pandemic to those who didn't want to be vaccinated? There were enough Americans who could easily perform self-righteous snitching on their neighbors and even family members to feel important.
@ethanhandel1001
@ethanhandel1001 Ай бұрын
They would still do it today. And they will also do it when we tilt fully into unpopular climate change policies.
@E_Clampus_Vitus
@E_Clampus_Vitus Ай бұрын
Everyone sat back and watched their neighbors lose their businesses.
@connellknudtson4405
@connellknudtson4405 26 күн бұрын
This conversation was almost TOO good in that each of them made dozens of statements that got my mind spinning off in its own direction. There was one 40 second stretch I had to replay 5 times until my brain clammed up so I could absorb what they said. Queueing up more of each of these guys to view later...
@michaelmoskowitz3212
@michaelmoskowitz3212 Ай бұрын
Close but real evil can only occur when the majority is blindly obedient to authority. See the banality of evil by Hannah Arendt.
@philipcullin983
@philipcullin983 Ай бұрын
Saying “Real evil can only occur when ____” seems like you’re leaving room for a great deal of very real evil that occurs under many other circumstances. Do you mean that literally? Or do you mean the evil that occurs accross an entire society like nazism, communism, and slavery?
@ms-jl6dl
@ms-jl6dl Ай бұрын
That was not her point at all. Her point was that everyone inevitably creates emotional bond with "the truth" and is capable of joining and participating in any sort of totailitarian society and comiting even attrocities against any percieved treath. "Nazis" were not special in any way,they were you and me in a situation where we see one group or few groups as the threath - like vaccinated vs unvaccinated where we percieve "the others" as a treath to us and are ready to use force to "defend ourselves" but only one side has The State on its side and capability to commit atrocities or implement terror.That's why Michael's ideas are important,to prevent state's terror state should be abandoned otherwise it always becomes (or is from the begining) totalitarian,that's how we humans normaly behave. She (H.Arendt) was ostracized from Jewish intelligencia for her comments about the "banality of evil" after Eichman's trial in Israel where she was dissapointed and against those show trials where particular people are portraid as particulary evil and "special". Outside of a few psychopaths all humans are "normal", but capable of similar cruelty regardless and should be treated "normaly" like everybody else guilty of the same crime. Eichman hasn't killed anybody personaly so why should he be executed but thousands of "murderous" soldiers let go? That was and still is controversial idea since we all give highest blame to the leaders for evil commited but not to the foot soldiers who bring those terrible ideas to fruition. And all those foot soldiers are normal people too so there's no "justice" possible,only revenge. And to do that "reasonably" we choose to punish leaders most severly. She sees that as similar behaviour but from "our side",we punish percieved symbols of evil to create symbolic revenge which might also be evil in itself. See also Mattias Desmet's "Mass formation" about the subject.
@lisabeam8315
@lisabeam8315 Ай бұрын
Who's truth is the big question.
@michaelmoskowitz3212
@michaelmoskowitz3212 Ай бұрын
@@lisabeam8315 no that’s the point that most miss about atrocities. There will always be conflicting truths but it takes a blind obedience to authority and punishment that results in the worst horrors.
@BIGDAWG-xk3rp
@BIGDAWG-xk3rp 28 күн бұрын
I stopped looking for explanations ever since I started reading the Bible. As a kid I never followed and I always questioned why? Why is it so easy for people to be persuaded into doing things that are obviously immoral? I’m not saying I’m special, we all have family, friends, and coworkers that will agree on bombing children in Gaza. Why? It doesn’t benefit you to agree with such approach. It’s obviously immoral. Are they scared to be ostracized? Is there repercussions for disagreeing? Yes. But Why? Logically asking questions and criticizing actions can only benefit the nation from making further mistakes. So the conclusion for me is very simple. It’s just Evil. Evil from a Christian perspective. The same evil that tortured a innocent man to death for a degenerate collective. There’s nothing else that can explain it. You look through out history the same events happens over and over again. It leaves me dumbfounded. And I’m pretty fucking dumb. Leaves me asking the same questions every single time. How could you? And why would you? It’s just crazy honestly. It’s actually not that deep. I think people keep digging to try to reason with their own soul. Anarchy isn’t possible. But an overpowered government is worst. The sooner we can collectively agree on Morals the sooner we can get back to normalcy.
@Golgibaby
@Golgibaby Ай бұрын
The exploration and clarity in the variety of ideas in this tussle of a conversation was worth it. Mahalo both for the conversation!
@georgethao8552
@georgethao8552 25 күн бұрын
He listens intently and is genuinely engaged. I have the most respect for Michael Malice. Great podcast.
@TanukiDigital
@TanukiDigital Ай бұрын
Michael drinking Dr. Pepper.... he's a true Texan now Y'all!
@AdamM
@AdamM Ай бұрын
lol right 😂
@crambow
@crambow 24 күн бұрын
hes not a Texan lol
@KrepsyK
@KrepsyK 4 күн бұрын
But does he call it a coke first and then clarify that he wants a Dr Pepper?
@y5mgisi
@y5mgisi Ай бұрын
How many were introduced to Michael via the Lex Friedman podcast? I was. And now I enjoy him a quite a bit.
@user-wr2cd1wy3b
@user-wr2cd1wy3b Ай бұрын
I find him a little to "everyone's stupid but me" for my taste. He makes a lot of points about people having zero self-reflection, I think he's spent too much time on twitter; it seems to be the place to go to experience that sort of person (and you might end up seeming so yourself, limited to a paragraph, not to mention every third person was a bot, and at least IME, still seems to be so.)
@mentalcasanova6420
@mentalcasanova6420 Ай бұрын
​@@user-wr2cd1wy3b I'm sorry you took that personally
@liberty193
@liberty193 Ай бұрын
I was introduced via Tom Woods
@mentalcasanova6420
@mentalcasanova6420 Ай бұрын
@@liberty193 *a very failed podcaster
@Craig_Doll
@Craig_Doll Ай бұрын
​@@mentalcasanova6420and you are?
Ай бұрын
Tom is one of the best interviewers I've seen. Smart, sincere, curious, honest, bold, this makes such a great conversation to listen to.
@jaredcrenshaw7665
@jaredcrenshaw7665 Ай бұрын
Michael Malice and Dave Smith are two of my favorite people that I agree with almost all of what they say.
@kahwigulum
@kahwigulum Ай бұрын
we have to rollback the state
@sjuvanet
@sjuvanet Ай бұрын
malice is smart, dave smith is a fool.
@nedhill1242
@nedhill1242 Ай бұрын
Tucker, Glenn Greenwald, Michael Schellenberger
@harbifm766766
@harbifm766766 Ай бұрын
Both are total fools ​@@sjuvanet
@bigz5262
@bigz5262 Ай бұрын
@@sjuvanet they agree on almost everything so you’re kinda contradicting yourself
@darbyohara
@darbyohara 29 күн бұрын
2:39:00 BINGO Michael nailed it. It’s a matter of IQ and for some reason people of above average IQ refuse to accept the reality that a large % of people (> 65%) do not have the mental capacity or desire to change their wiring and programing let alone understand what the host of “hoping”
@katrina6627
@katrina6627 Ай бұрын
Wow! Amazing interview. Im 68 & this opened my mind to a new way of thinking.
@ZenchiArts
@ZenchiArts Ай бұрын
Last two guests were total bangers Tom, keep em coming.
@pesh909
@pesh909 Ай бұрын
Another fantastic chat. I love how both of your different brains work and how ya’s work together to communicate difficult ideas effectively. Tom’s superb at this. Thanks. Love from Aus-jail-ya x
@LackLusterMedia
@LackLusterMedia Ай бұрын
Malice is a fantastic guest. It was great to see him on the show, Tom.
@NathanCline12-21
@NathanCline12-21 Ай бұрын
“the voluntary society is the source of order that comes from freedom itself. There is no contradiction or even tension between liberty and security. If free enterprise works well in one sector, it can work well in other sectors too.” - Gustave de Molinari
@saughs
@saughs Ай бұрын
53:21 - This was me vs. my college roommates. If I did anything creative or outside the box, much less pushed them to, they were very dismissive, or even ridiculed me for it.
@matthewriegner5180
@matthewriegner5180 Ай бұрын
I think this is one of Tom's best interviews. I genuinely appreciate the constant measuring of terms and defining of thought to make you think very specifically to clearly articulate an idea.
@veronicafoley1043
@veronicafoley1043 Ай бұрын
Don't they milk snakes for venom to make the antidotes to snake bites?
@MG-me7iw
@MG-me7iw Ай бұрын
Don't they cut trees for wood to make fire?
@jackkuehneman9300
@jackkuehneman9300 Ай бұрын
Watching the kid from soul plane have a stroke trying to understand Malice is hilarious
@DailyPragmatism
@DailyPragmatism Ай бұрын
Malice is the goat
@digitalHayes
@digitalHayes Ай бұрын
This was a masterclass in communication.
@sammysoseOFFICIAL
@sammysoseOFFICIAL Ай бұрын
This is my first intro to your channel and wow I’ll be doing a deep dive into your episodes and am a fan. I was engaged from start to finish
@jinzo457
@jinzo457 Ай бұрын
"I want a Governor who can stand for something." - Michael Malice on Gov. Abbott.
@BamBam-mh4rc
@BamBam-mh4rc Ай бұрын
So many different perspectives throughout this podcast. Mindblown/scared/optimistic all rolled into 1
@marvinsamuel8024
@marvinsamuel8024 Ай бұрын
Great conversation from Canada! Michael and Tom agreed quite a bit and more people need to listen to Michael. Refreshing
@ChristianaBonelliSmith-mo1ox
@ChristianaBonelliSmith-mo1ox Ай бұрын
You do a great job Tom on interviewing. I've watched other shows. Both are intelligent men and this interview has appeared challenging as it seems to be a little combative. Great job handling it.
@sarahjerose1749
@sarahjerose1749 Ай бұрын
Ive already adopted many anarchist principles in my own life and found much peace and happiness.
@constantinethesecond949
@constantinethesecond949 Ай бұрын
Great conversation fellas.
@wx2833
@wx2833 Ай бұрын
Very interesting & potentially actionable content; the ideals and vantage points presented were fun to exercise to challenge certain personal beliefs; and I am interested in getting the book written by your guest. Peace
@PantherFantasy
@PantherFantasy 11 күн бұрын
Your channel just showed up on my feed. Good debating and philosophy. Enjoyed the conversation.
@Pharoacious
@Pharoacious Ай бұрын
It is weird hearing Tom state that we live in a capitalistic democracy. I wish we had either.
@user-wo9jj6ii6t
@user-wo9jj6ii6t Ай бұрын
Ive followed Michael Malice for years, the more I think about his ideas, the more convinced I am that many of his ideas would indeed improve humanity as a whole
@davidmoorman731
@davidmoorman731 Ай бұрын
Yes, like a Marine boot camp. Learn to take care of yourself in demanding situations.
@Justin_Beaver564
@Justin_Beaver564 Ай бұрын
He really understands true liberty
@nordwest23
@nordwest23 Ай бұрын
This is quite possibly 1 of the best Podcast I've ever listened/Watched Ever Ever. Thank you very much Blessings to you and your families! 😎✌🐧
@iguanarchist
@iguanarchist Ай бұрын
This has got to be one of my favorite Malice interviews. Well done!
@katsmaintanklive
@katsmaintanklive Ай бұрын
Michael 's great at laying out ideas in a way that the person he's talking to can understand That's why he's the 🐐
@whorton1978
@whorton1978 Ай бұрын
"I want a governor who can stand for something," and Tom just let that sail right over the plate.
@CarlosHernandez-ki6tv
@CarlosHernandez-ki6tv Ай бұрын
I kept trying to call the "cliffhanger cuts" in the intro. TY Tom for not resorting to that scummy trend. Feels good to hear them finish the sentence 🙏
@CYI3ERPUNK
@CYI3ERPUNK Ай бұрын
tom has done a lot of interviews , this might be one of the best and most important he's ever done , top10 at least imho ; thank you michael for saying what needs to be said/heard
@BBshark000
@BBshark000 Ай бұрын
The size of government or even the existence of a government aren't the problem per se. The problem is our blind faith in what's called "democracy".
@davidharrison6208
@davidharrison6208 Ай бұрын
Thanks Tom. Great interview
@robertk4517
@robertk4517 24 күн бұрын
This topic of thought and what control we have over it is an inner conversation I always have with myself, great to hear you guys try to outwardly chisel out some of these concepts, even as hard as it is.
@thegoru0106
@thegoru0106 27 күн бұрын
This was one of the most interesting conversations I have listened to recently. Great job to both the host and the guest.
@SherifaNakalema
@SherifaNakalema Ай бұрын
This is such an interesting conversation 🎉
@JeffHoldenWS-NC
@JeffHoldenWS-NC Ай бұрын
The next question can you have power plants, hospitals, roads, ambulances, sewer plants and water plants for fresh water in an anarchy society? The Final question would be There are approximately 100 uncontacted tribes Left on Earth where it's literally illegal to walk up and say hello (because the diseases you may carry will wipe out half the population after the first encounter) are these examples of anarchy or they simply small governments
@TheBrianna4555
@TheBrianna4555 Ай бұрын
You pay for it from a company the same way you buy shoes and eat burgers and everything else you want. What the fuck is this question? You are sitting here and telling me that nobody could figure out how to filtrate water without government? There's all this demand for fresh water from billions of people but goddamnit there is no government so I guess I'll drink sewer water because nobody has the mental capacity to start a company that makes clean water and sells it in a bottle. Holy shit dude lol. Your lack of basic logic and critical thinking is shocking. Do not vote. Also, just because you are clearly a deeply unimpressive doesn't mean everyone else is.
@dralel1381
@dralel1381 29 күн бұрын
Tribes typically do have a hierarchy and/or governing body. As long as the people volunteer into the system, with no coercion to stay in the system it's kosher. We had amenities such as education, roads, electricity, water, far before we had taxes maintaining such things. If your interested in reading about such topics, here are some books. 'The Privatization of Roads & Highways' by Walter Block And 'Economics and the Environment: A Reconciliation' by Walter E. Block Edit: got the author wrong.
@dreamshop6071
@dreamshop6071 15 күн бұрын
Dude you still think anarchist are ANTIFA. They are just hired idiots. Think more. Feel less.
@DagwoodDogwoggle
@DagwoodDogwoggle Ай бұрын
Malice's comments around 19:00 about The Majority takes me back to Vision Quest (1985). Louden: "Can 800000 people be wrong?' Tanneran: (as he sinks fade away jump shot) "Frequently."
@bienmal
@bienmal 21 күн бұрын
Malice is so picky and touchy with words that he makes his thesis really unfriendly and undigestible
@anthonymendoza6210
@anthonymendoza6210 Ай бұрын
These people are not as smart as they think they are.
@findyou2283
@findyou2283 Ай бұрын
White pilled man, he might be new to some ppl here, he is very well read! Have fun with this one folks! ❤😊
@user-xx3to8fb3d
@user-xx3to8fb3d Ай бұрын
findyou whos hiding more like your all to busy committing and fabricating crimes crimes lol
@philbridges3033
@philbridges3033 Ай бұрын
You have Michael Malice on your show? Well hell, now I have to subscribe to your channel.
@adamproud7986
@adamproud7986 Ай бұрын
3h podcast feels awesome having 2 people actively participating in confronting each other's thoughts Keep up the good work
@michaelryan3693
@michaelryan3693 Ай бұрын
Jeremy Rener is smart af
@persona5305
@persona5305 Ай бұрын
😂
@emiliog.4432
@emiliog.4432 Ай бұрын
Renner
@davidanalyst671
@davidanalyst671 Ай бұрын
google offers to translate to english, and when I click yes translate it, it just removes the AF lolz
@PaddySlattery
@PaddySlattery Ай бұрын
This conversation is a reason to be optimistic for humanity.
@mvpd98
@mvpd98 Ай бұрын
One of the best discussions I've heard in a while on any platform. Love the pushback from bith sides creating a real and meaningful conversation. There are so many good take aways and sounds bites in yhis discussion. Too many to list but this has reinvigorated the fight in me to keep going and living my life in contrary to the comfortable, easily digestible agendas being pushed on us.
@riledmouse4677
@riledmouse4677 12 күн бұрын
I couldn’t agree more.
@light_spreaders
@light_spreaders 14 күн бұрын
Great discussion fellas, and the Sandlot is one of my favorite films Tom much love brother :)
@AliciaSalvadore
@AliciaSalvadore Ай бұрын
Thx so much for your work and info Tom. Eversince you introduced us to Abby Joseph Cohen Services, I now watch all of your content cus I believe I can succeed following your advice and wisdom. My main Affirmation and major plan for walking away from my 9 to 5 job is my 30000 USD weekly returns from my investment with Abby. Forever grateful to you
@hebergonzalez0ficial
@hebergonzalez0ficial Ай бұрын
Well her name is 'ABBY JOSEPH COHEN SERVICES'. Just research the name. You'd find necessary details to work with a correspondence to set up an appointment.
@KimJimCastro
@KimJimCastro Ай бұрын
Quite reassuring to meet other beneficiaries of Mrs Abby Joseph Cohen Services
@peterwilson9327
@peterwilson9327 Ай бұрын
Scammers 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮
@kaasvaag
@kaasvaag Ай бұрын
@@peterwilson9327 its so obvious, I hope no one falls for it.
@BasedYoga
@BasedYoga Ай бұрын
Scammers. Can't trust the like counts on these things. They must buy the like count or something
@AdamM
@AdamM Ай бұрын
This is such a great interview! Thanks for this
@supremoluminary
@supremoluminary Ай бұрын
Awesome to see him calling you out on using the collective tense, the first person plural subject, “we“. I thought I was the only one who did that!
@Jimmy29li
@Jimmy29li Ай бұрын
Malice is the GOAT. Great job by the interviewer.
@Because_Reasons
@Because_Reasons Ай бұрын
FREE WILL /= ULTIMATE FREE WILL. It's literally a semantic discussion. Even if your will is constrained or influenced, it does not mean it's not free. Malice, is such a clear Socratic thinker.
@annemiller8227
@annemiller8227 Ай бұрын
I have only occasionally watched this channel but this was fairly amazing. Wasn't sure about the guest at first but he CERTAINLY made me pause and think several times and may have even changed the direction (minorly) of some of my thinking especially in politics
@kcperception3895
@kcperception3895 29 күн бұрын
"Say that in another way". I love you Tom. Beautiful process and humility
@outlierz1796
@outlierz1796 Ай бұрын
Tom is having trouble seeing how deeply indoctrinated he is. I love that he is trying.
@PierzStyx
@PierzStyx Ай бұрын
Bingo. As are many of the people in the comments.
@darbyohara
@darbyohara 29 күн бұрын
He’s definitely not as smart as Michael thinks he is if it took Tom time and other peoples efforts to show him blm was a crock 😂
@outlierz1796
@outlierz1796 27 күн бұрын
@@darbyohara I'm not here to insult intelligence. Even when you are smart, it's hard to break free from deep programming. Tom is clearly smart, though I'm not sure exactly how much so.
@darbyohara
@darbyohara 27 күн бұрын
@@outlierz1796 it’s not hard. Smart people are curious thinkers and skeptics. They don’t just go along then realize years later after someone tells them they were duped
@alexroth9197
@alexroth9197 Ай бұрын
"WE" love you Michael. Your welcome!
@noseyparker6969
@noseyparker6969 Ай бұрын
🤣
@-whackd
@-whackd Ай бұрын
The majority of the humanity loves Michael, if you're using Toms definition of "we".
@noseyparker6969
@noseyparker6969 Ай бұрын
@@-whackd No. Was laughing at 'your' and you proved it.
@christrooper
@christrooper Ай бұрын
​@@noseyparker6969Are you laughing because you understand why ‘your’ was used instead of ‘you’re’, or do you find grammatical errors funny?
@jasontoole1417
@jasontoole1417 Ай бұрын
I love the conversations Tom has with his guests! I also have been enjoying the last few libertarian leaning guests! And although I understand being an advocate of anarchy makes you VERY carful about your word choice… his semantics can be a bit much at times. But Impact Theory remains to be my Go-To podcast for awesome thought provoking discussions. Great job always!!!
@cocktailbarbelltender8067
@cocktailbarbelltender8067 Ай бұрын
1:00:42 the discussion on the asymmetry of imparting bad/unhealthy ideas vs good/healthy ideas is very interesting. I remember reading Eckhart Tolle’s books and at one point he recounts the “the finger that points to the moon is not the moon” and so perhaps we cannot implant good ideas, we can only “ point” to those things that nourish goodness and health.
@DShaw1776
@DShaw1776 Ай бұрын
Love the honesty of the statement, in the situation “once you introduce women, society is impossible.” Even as a woman, I agree 💯
@sherbear8286
@sherbear8286 Ай бұрын
Me too.
@konstantinrebrov675
@konstantinrebrov675 28 күн бұрын
What do you suggest, removing women and instead growing people in artificial wombs, in barrels? Replacing humanity with a new species? Sounds like some LGBTQMA+ theory.
@Rensune
@Rensune Ай бұрын
This is what anarchists (including Michael Malice) will NEVER understand. You cannot make other people do things. That includes believing what you want them to believe.
@dralel1381
@dralel1381 29 күн бұрын
That's a good argument against government.
@atlasshrugged9735
@atlasshrugged9735 7 күн бұрын
​@dralel1381 It's an argument for the status quo whatever that status quo may be. Ancharism (decentralization), like communism (centralization), are extremes. One should ask the question, if anarchism (or communism) is the best way to organize human affairs why didn't humans adopt it and keep it? That's how we started out is it not? In small independent familial tribes (a form of anarcho-communism). No government existed, and yet here we are. I'm not making an argument for or against anything, but for some reason we aways end up right where we are at in terms of hierarchical systems. I'm always skeptical of people who claim they have the answer to how humans should arrange their affairs for the maximum benefit of all. Should vs. reality are rarely the same.
@saughs
@saughs Ай бұрын
As a fan of Michael, and even longer-time anarchist, this was great. Wasn't familiar with Tom, but he earned a new subscriber.
@YigalWeinstein
@YigalWeinstein Ай бұрын
Man, this is so good. Thank you both!
@Saltatory_
@Saltatory_ Ай бұрын
I love you, Michael Malice. Your clarity is delightful. Big question: what is your view of international power competition? I am libertarian bordering on anarchist. However, it appears to me that the strong dominate the weak. It feels to me like i want a security apparatus to protect me from a large state with a regime i don't like from coming to exert more power of me. What is your view?
@johnnyshanksalot8358
@johnnyshanksalot8358 Ай бұрын
Michael definitely won't answer YT comments but who's more likely to exert power over you, some foreign nation or the very 'security' apparatus that you speak of? Does an invasion/occupation of a 1st world nation in 2024 by such a nation actually seem feasible to you? What would be the upside for them vs the nightmare that they'd encounter because of (unrestricted) modern technology?
@polysaturated
@polysaturated Ай бұрын
Interesting question, I suppose you shouldn’t be weak and more trouble than you’re worth, although that hasn’t deterred the USSR or USA from tangling with Afghanistan. What are you willing to give up in exchange for that protection?
@stevenwilliams1805
@stevenwilliams1805 Ай бұрын
I feel like the answer to that question was at least tangentially touched upon somewhere in this three hour video.
@Saltatory_
@Saltatory_ Ай бұрын
@@johnnyshanksalot8358 thanks for the thoughtful reply In this example I'm imagining an avatar anarchist utopia with no central or large scale government entity. Imagine everyone in the US just stopped caring what the central government thought and stopped paying taxes. In that scenario, I imagine that neighbors would start to take chunks. The point is that I think this issue of geographic security is a weak point in most libertarian/anarchist conceptions.
@Saltatory_
@Saltatory_ Ай бұрын
@@polysaturated that last question is, I think the whole ball game. Despite being very freedom loving, I worry that there is an inexorable evolution toward a small number (maybe Even just 1) security states exactly because size matters.
@gabay123vip
@gabay123vip Ай бұрын
This is such a weird conversation. Tom seems to believe he should take on the role of the interviewee, attempting to articulate Malice's thoughts for him, while Malice acts as an editor/reviewer, correcting Tom's words. Wouldn't it be simpler if the interviewer just asked questions and let Malice respond in his own words, instead of playing a guessing game about Malice's thoughts? Or is the traditional interview format not anarchist enough?
@DawnOfThaDusk
@DawnOfThaDusk Ай бұрын
This is how he’s always done it on his podcast. I can see how it’s not for everyone though.
@bendover2425
@bendover2425 Ай бұрын
It’s called a conversation my guy lol dialogue is anarchy. Finish the episode. You haven’t learned anything. You are who Michael was speaking about
@-whackd
@-whackd Ай бұрын
First twenty minutes is Tom trying to justify why he says "we" instead of "I" for all of his personal claims and understandings of the world.
@derosa1989
@derosa1989 Ай бұрын
odd comment. Summarizing their point back to them is a standard technique for demonstrating that you understand their claims. it's classic good faith conversation.
@travismann6603
@travismann6603 Ай бұрын
It's a conversation, not an interview.
@humanistmanifesto
@humanistmanifesto 2 күн бұрын
Tom, what Michael is saying is that a method where we choose preemptively who will lead us, rather than allowing the natural order to choose, is not only irresponsible but ineffective.
@electricamir248
@electricamir248 Ай бұрын
This is interesting. I remember the "are you with us or with them" from Sept 11. That whole thing was to tighten the chain around our neck
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