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Law: God is pretty cool dudes, we should all follow his totalitarian laws Chaos: Murder is badass Neutral: I'm right and everyone else is wrong

I think a big aspect of why SMT struggles so much with Law endings is that there is a strong underpinning that Law knows what's best for the world, and this often contradicts the central thesis behind having a choice at all. So you end up in this very narrow writing space, where you can't make Law too appealing to kill all choices either. Often, then, where Law endings best succeed is an appeal to the greater good, but at a sacrifice (so long as this sacrifice is not so great as to be unreasonable), so that Chaos endings that don't appeal to that greater good aren't unreasonable either. By contrast, then, the Law endings that are bad either fail because either the sacrifice is completely unreasonable or there is no reasonable appeal to the greater good.

It’s really hard to pretend that the alignments are all viable when Law is almost always run by the series’s main villain. Sure, they may claim that YHVH is corrupted by some greater wrong, but since only his side is apparently corrupted that way, it still basically results in severe imbalance rather than any meaningful philosophical decision-making.

SMT V seemed like the first law route where I at least didn't feel like crap for siding with. God's last act was to protect Tokyo as long as he could, all you are doing is maintaining that last act in his stead. It's my preferred ending in that game because creating a new pantheon is stupid, making humans fend off demons by themselves is stupid, and killing Aogami is stupid.

Law routes could be infinitely more colorful and interesting if they just brought back the idea of having other deities ally with the YHVH squad in the game’s conflict, like Vishnu being an ally in the SMT1 Law route iirc. They kind of revisited this idea with the Bethel leaders but obviously didn’t really stick with it.

I remember having a discussion of how to take the alignments of SMT in more interesting directions, especially Law. This would be more work, but splitting the alignments into smaller factions to allow for a spectrum of beliefs would make in game decisions feel far more natural and less of what you stated was the main problem with endings like 4’s Law: the disparity between the small decisions and the big finale. For Law specifically the framework is already there. Have YHVH be largely ambiguous, a voice who comes in throughout the game, but like his biblical depictions relies on his servants and prophets to carry out His will. However, what if His voice vanished for whatever reason (kinda like the set up of 5’s plot but not obvious)? The Upper and Lower choirs would have differing opinions on how to handle humanity. The Upper Choirs (led by the Seraphim) tasked with maintaining the laws of the universe, would come to the conclusion that sinful humans are destroying God’s perfect world. With him no longer giving them orders, they would default to their own thoughts: God’s perfect world above all. They would seek to either destroy or change humanity into something they’re not: effectively making them entirely new beings. No free will, no sin, but perfect harmony with all. However the Lower Choir (led by the Archangels) would oppose this. They serve God by interacting directly with humanity and know that despite their Fall, He still loves them and wishes for them to accept salvation freely, maintaining what makes them human and images of God himself. As God’s messengers, they would know the best way of finding YHVH’s guidance and lead humanity down a path according to his words, not his established laws. Chaos of course would be divided into alignments like Mem Aleph’s return to the primeval, or Lucifer’s freedom of beliefs like SMT 2. And finally for Neutral you can do either Yakumo’s “human’s alone” mentality (but in a way that matches your actions in game) or do the “bonds” ending from 4 apocalypse or New Chaos in Redux: a world where demons and humans work together.

I actually find the strange journey neutral endings incredibly bleak, especially in today's day and age; basically arguing that humanity is incapable of learning from their mistakes to make any meaningful change, and that the only way they'll survive is through permanent outside help (the fact that space marine's role in protecting them causes him to lose his humanity is really pointed there too - he is forced to be an outsider to society for protecting us.) It's a really strange and hopeless take on a neutral ending for the game whose whole scenario is a direct allusion to the effects of climate change

I think SMT endings could be helped a lot by leaning on the other alignment chart that they rarely actually touch, light/neutral/dark. Say there’s a law side that wants to destroy all it sees as evil and there’s also a law side that wants to uplift humanity to what it sees as the best path. Being able to have multiple flavours of law and chaos endings in one game would do wonders for easing the objective good and bad of certain alignment endings

Leave it purely for anecdotal and reaserch reasons, but try reading or learning about some of the more eastern deities and demons. Not because I really want to see a video on one but also since our mythos is sometimes straight up wild. Want an example? Everyone knows Shiva right? Most popular Indian deity and destroyer of worlds. In one event he gifted a demon the power to destroy anything he touched with his right hand, which the demon decided to test on Shiva, this led to Shiva being chased by the demon all across his home Mount Kailash. Finally Vishnu intervenes by transforming himself into a dancing woman and tricking the demon into touching his own head and destroying himself. This one story is easily my favorite.

I think the series' problem is that it keeps fighting strawmen and surface level teenager philosophy. Strange Journey seemed to finally evolve these ideas more to steelman area giving more compelling reason for all of them but V seemed to still return back to weak positions.

One thing i'd like to say is that in the Law Redux segment, YHVH wasn't made into an evil character, Shekinah's only a fragment of his power that took form and wanted to rule absolute. He appears on his true form on the EX Mission Demiurge battle where you battle another fragment of his power, Demiurge, and starts to reconstruct his form. The game does say that he is arrogant but, even with his arrogance, he promises to guard humanity as long as humanity promises to obey and follow the holy spirit. There's nothing more than this for his real appearance, because in the game lore he is "dead" and fragmented in multiple forms that want his power for themselves.

Absolutely amazing work Tony. Like I already had a chance to read your early script, but also getting to hear your final thoughts as a whole, on top of the incredible breakdown of every mainline ending, was all such a treat (and very easy to grasp) as someone who has yet to play all the SMT games. And once again, thanks so much for giving me this opportunity to join you for this video! Really glad this project turned out so well! 😄

Moral ambiguity is what makes this games interesting. The Idea that God is a dictator and a totalitarian, however all his promisses about salvation and eternal life are true makes a more complex and interesting situation. This is far more though provoking than "God evil".

Cool video. Thanks to Lady Vergilia for the history lesson on Christianity in japan. I had read but a bit on it here and there, so I knew where this video was going, but I learnt new things too.

Devil Survivor Overclocked probably has the best ethos for endings of the series. You're presented with problems which you have obvious interest in, ending the lock down, saving your friends, becoming the King of Bel, and then it asks you in which way do you want to solve them. There's obvious chaos and law courses with Naoya and Amane, but it doesn't beat you over the head with alignments instead asking what exactly you want to motivate you while making all options reasonable. Serve God, as even in this ordeal he's been merciful, or screw him cause what give him the right to throw you into an ordeal anyway? Control the demons for proper use and bring the world a cohabitation with the occult powers, or send them all back to the expanse and be done with it? And as always with Best Girl, bail, cause this sucks and I don't wanna be here. There's been some ending throughout the series that kind of do the same open endedness to it, SMTIV neutral ending has you want to protect Tokyo but not at the cost of Mikado. Good goal, kinda falls apart with how difficult it is to get that fucking ending.

Alignments are in desperate need of a shake up. While I understand mainline is all about the more cosmic aspect and as such should reflect that I think a more down to earth approach would do wonders for the system and will lead to more nuance and complexity the story could have.

Sometimes I wonder what it'd be like if they explored the Light and Dark axis more instead of pushing it under the rug

SMT V really could’ve done a better job with the Neutral and Law alignments.

Nocturne's "reasons" seems like a right path for this. You won't be bound too much by the concept of alignments, yet you may be able to vaguely guess what alignments does the said reason possess. Not to mention, it was driven by human choice as well. My biggest gripe with mainline alignments is because other than neutral, law and chaos feels like a choice that you definitely need to choose and not because of the will of those involved. They made it impossible to 'stay human' when you chose law or chaos which is pretty weird considering neutral is pretty much turning the MC godlike yet still retaining his humanity.

My favourite Law Ending is probably Amanes Day 8 Ending in Devil Survivor Overclocked , since it's one of the endings where pretty much everyone is happy. It also helps that that DeSu is one of the few SMT's that doesen't portray YHVH as straight up evil.

I get happy every time a new Tony4You video drops, and god damn, this was a wonderful one. It really shows how much work went into making this.

I think the dichotomy between the two neutral endings in SMT5 are reflected on a comment that Aogami makes around the middle of the story, in which he states that demon summoners who are too heavily involved with the matters of demons eventually lose sight of the issues of real people. Ironically the ending where you do the most quests with demons is the one where you can choose to erase the demons in favor of protecting humanity as a whole. Though I think it is important that you can also choose the normal neutral ending after doing all the quests, which points to this being a crossroads where the Nahobino is identified to have become attached to the demons or not. I guess they chose to present the choice this way with the factor of the Nahobino already being heavily involved with several demons' issues because it makes the choice to still choose humanity more impactful. It's also important to say that Aogami is probably biased when he first explains this, since in the secret neutral ending, he explains that it is the path he would have chosen (presumably if he wasn't fused with the kid already). Of course, most players glossed past this because it was explained fairly innocuously earlier in the story (a problem with the story in general) and because most people who got the true neutral ending (me included) simply chose it because they wanted to see the "true ending", ignoring the second choice between both neutral endings as "just some extra thing", so the overall feeling is just "why did I have to do the quests to get this ending?". Regardless I still appreciate that at least with this dynamic that there is not necessarily a better ending. I remember getting the secret neutral ending and really debating with myself if it really was a better outcome than the normal neutral ending.

The Light v. Dark alignment is incredibly underutilized (it’s used in what, two games?), but it’d be exactly what we need to fix the alignment system. Kind of like IV’s alignment grading system, but a lot more specific events will put you in a concrete alignment. So you could be a vigilante in a Light-Chaos route, a violent dictator in a Dark-Law route, selfishly remake the world in your image in Dark-Neutral, and so on. That way you could include more complex philosophies on top of fixing the “least awful route” problem some games have

The cultural bias explains a lot, but I think the best explanation is that they are simply taking things as givens and don't ask any questions. Like why is YHVH the strongest and why anyone would follow him before he was the undisputed victor? Further, maybe the gods of old deserved to have their divinity stripped from them for being massive jerks themselves. The fact he didn't destroy them when that was apparently on the table meant he understood they spoke to something essential, so instead he just put them in their place. And given the cosmic scale of events, there really needs to be a character to challenge the Japanese gods for being so petty and provincial as they seem content to let the universe burn as long as Japan is fine. As for satisfying endings, I think it was Alfred Hitchcock who said characters are how you get away with telling the same story over and over. So the alignment ends could end on an ambiguous note as far as the larger struggle, but by resolving character arcs the player could get some satisfaction. Just some thoughts.

Man SMTV's story at the end where every representative dies and you fulfill their will couldve been cool if they made it actually make sense ;-;

I feel like mainline is just too stuck on the idea of the alignments always having to be the same themes. I wish we could get more outcomes of Chaos learning the strong can lead the weak without bloodshed and anarchy (Like SJR and Overclocked did), Law learns it doesn't need absolute control and brainwashing to teach people to be good to one another (Also like SJR/Overclocked) and Neutral learns to fully accept everyone has good and bad points and one should be free to do things however they wish instead of "I reject you all, now go home." And you can still have the villains just be extreme sides of the conflict who are going too far and have to be stopped. It's also REALLY hard to want to side with Law when they're always portrayed as completely pompous jerks on a power trip and God is shown as the biggest, worst jerk in each game. I'm not religious in any way but do we always have to make God out to be bad by default? We can't just have an angel that's a little too zealous in their goals and God says "Hey can you maybe get him to cut that out?" or something? I realize Lucifer is kinda like that but I mean more of a Mastema but crazier kinda thing. I also really really dislike how being nice and kind is always seen as Lawful, being a jerk is always chaos and being indifferent and apathetic is Neutral. Like you can't have it any other way.

It's still so weird to me how SMT treats YHVH so negatively when he's supposed to represent law a lot of the time. Despite me generally agreeing with law ideals (whenever it's not basically just mass murder of sinners I end up siding with it) I find myself having to pick neutral alot because of how poorly law is normally presented. I wish they'd just elevate Demiurge to that big bad position, he can still fit the role YHVH plays in SMT and it separates law from the main villain it's normally associated with, helping make it a more appealing option. Hell they could even separate law from God entirely, like in DeSu2. It's not hard to make law appealing but they usually don't even attempt to do so

Amazing video. Something that I've been thinking about regarding quote on quote "alignment" endings even in games outside of SMT is just how some options may seem biased towards is just how up to interpretation or open ended the ending can be; it's why I think OG Strange Journey endings don't have that sense of bias compared to the others since there's some degree of uncertainty in each ending.

The Neutral Bias for SMT IV is so bad that the plot of SMT IV Apocalypse is the idea that your interference as Nanashi by him basically becoming what is seen as in SMT V as Nahobino is what causes there to *not* be a Neutral ending. So the Flynn of that timeline would've done the Neutral Ending if you didn't interfere and work with either Vishnu or Dagda.

Thank you for including a section regarding Japan and Christianity. It's very interesting how Law in SMT and the strongest characters in the series are associated with Abrahamic religions. The alignment system has so much potential for more depth, I would love to see more moral ambiguity in the different endings.

Honestly, as much as I appreciate the idea of not portraying God as wholly good (Mainly due to the West being very apprehensive to ever paint God in a different light), I do actually agree that making him wholly totalitarian is sad. I want an SMT game where God genuinely is a good entity, one looking out for humanity and trying to help people in the way he believes best. I don't believe God would kill people for simply not believing in him, or even worse yet, for simply existing somewhere. Imagine SMT4 but instead of Merkabah straight up killing everyone, they work to 'cleanse' the filth away from Tokyo. Flynn and Jonathan work to spread the idea of mercy and togetherness. They work to stop anarchistic demons from outwardly causing havoc, all the while still emphasizing the idea of a holy kingdom which would still drive Walter away due to his biases born from an unjust caste system. Eventually it would end with Mikado and Tokyo merging together and following the Order of God in ways that benefit others. Imagine SMT4A where you go to fight God and instead of threatening you incessantly and throwing empty words at you, he genuinely attempts to make you understand his position and only fights back because you are actively attacking him. It can still end with his defeat, but with an emphasis on his forgiveness of your folly, of his love for you despite your wrongdoings and that if mankind shows it cannot handle the burden of a universe all its own, he would return to help guide them once again. Im not saying Law needs to be overwhelmingly great comparatively, but I do think we should have some semblance of good feelings when going the Law route.

One of the best Tony4You I've ever seen tbh. The LadyVirgilia explanation was great too!

I like Reasons in _Nocturne_ and the large variety of alignments in the _Devil Survivor_ games. Always felt that was the direction mainline games should've pursued. If the writers want to stick to Law-Neutral-Chaos, they should make all options equally appealing. But they rarely are. I think a lot of problems would be resolved by taking the _SMT Nine_ approach of fragmenting the alignments.

As a newcomer to SMT, I found your catalogue of the mainline games' endings to be very helpful. I will say that I do think that the endings in SMTV are hit or miss (at least in my opinion). I honestly really like the True Neutral ending. I think the Chaos one is okay, but Law and normal Neutral are pretty bad (especially the latter). I will admit my stance on the True Neutral ending has been in large part shaped by the biases of SMTV's story, which I really wish wasn't as strong. The other alignment reps could've been so much better in my opinion. Especially Law. Edit: also, I found the Freedom ending of SMTIII badass. It’s has a lot of the undertones that made me like the True Neutral ending of SMTV, but better executed if you ask me.

one small gripe I've had with smt as a whole is the characterization of the main four angels. aside from a few minor differences and appearances their characters are basically just "holy holy worship god or things are gonna get gory!" here's how I would personally portray them. Michael: I'd say give him a bit or a tired war veteran vibe. years upon years of unending conflict leaves him tired, the losses he's seen snuffed out by the forces of chaos and order and his own hands makes crave for this war to finally end, and if they do succeed, he wishes for a world of no conflict. A world where no man slaughter one another, and for that he continues to fight for his god see that world realized. Gabriel: I'd probably give her sort of a mother and daughter dynamic with Maria. Fighting to see a world where Maria can know peace, where she can rest easy and live her life with her. guarding her from others and seeing that chaos does not succeed, and that God may create that world of peace and tranquility. Raphael: tldr: "we're angels we're meant to be expendable." "not to me." Uriel: I'm not fully sure what you could do with him, but perhapse incorperate the banishment of Adam and Eve into it in some way?

What I love about Nocturne's Freedom ending is the fact that it completely flips what Kagutsuchi claims at the beginning on its head. He claims that you have "not even a hint of Reason". But by refusing everyone's own desire to shape the world in their image and choosing to restore it, you prove him wrong in a sense. You not having a Reason fits with the idea of humanity as a whole, because many people don't have major ideologies or purpose either. So many people are just trying their best with the cards they were dealt and the lives they've carved for themselves. Giving Kagutsuchi the finger and effectively telling both him and Lucifer to piss off and leave the world to be shaped by human hands is perfect. No one person should be able to dictate the future of billions.

I’m holding out hope for an SMT V deluxe/revision that expands on the story to fix pacing, and to explore chaos+neutral (perhaps by employing Tao or Miyazu better in the story to do so)

I think SMTV's Neutral and Secret should have been swapped. Something like this: Neutral: I destroy all demons, thinking it the only way to reject both God's Order and Tsukuyomi's anarchy. Secret: I learned through my quests that there is good in demons as well. In order to give everyone freedom, I opt to destroy the Throne.

Wonderful video again! I always get anxious when I see SMT/Persona videos of this length but again you prove to be the cream of the crop and gave a very satisfying video. Wish I could have more. Having this play on my phone while playing elden ring was a comfy mood.

Weak though it was, I think you miss some of the points of V's routes for Law and Chaos. In many ways, they were similar to SJR's New Law and New Chaos ends. Abdiel and Dazai knew they would be defying the order set in place by YHVH, just as Zelenin does in New Law, but they make the sacrifice of being sinners to offer the world salvation. The Chaos route is in many ways the same outcome as New Chaos, the extra-normal beings dictated as "demons" by YHVH's order allowed to reclaim their position as the gods of old.

Fantastic video to both Tony and Virgilia. I was very into SMT V upon release, but after the honeymoon phase with the game I realized how shoddy the story was. Maybe it was the influence from other reviews I watched, like Marsh and Simply Dad’s. You seemed to note yourself how unfinished some characters’ arcs were in V’s story. Do you think they really told the story they wanted to in the final release? I can’t help but feel like coronavirus and the international release hampered the team’s ability to create what they had in mind. After watching breakdowns of SMT V’s development and story, I’ve also better framed my love for the game in terms of music and demon design. I just can’t help but feel like we lost the story we were meant to get somewhere in development hell.

Definitely the most well-made video I've seen on SMT's alignments, period. You've absolutely outdone yourself here

Thanks for the video man, I've been waiting for this! I'm personally aligned to Law but it seems very dirty how they write it in many of the alignments. It was a great video and the guest appearance from Lady Virginia was a freak addition I did not expected but welcome highly. I hope to see more from you in the future, and to a better Law representative in the next SMT

Devil Survivor has been the best way to tackle the endings in the series and it's criminal they haven't replicated it since.

44 MINUTES OF TONY GOODNESS?!?!?!? OH MAN, THIS WILL BE AN ABSOLUTE W OF A VIDEO LET'S GOOOO!!!! Love your content tony!

Abrahamic faiths were always kinda zealous and very forceful in the way they spread because how organised it was and how they always sought political power. Even now, some of the most fanatical religious people belong to these religions. The Jewish faith being the oldest of the 3 is the most chill but the same can't be said for the other 2 With that being said....... Sure, some followers of eastern religions are zealous but over all, these religions are pretty hands off and are more cosmology oriented than telling people what not to do Hell, the biggest difference between these groups of religion is how "sin" effects you. Abrahamic faiths say that God can forgive you but karma is permanent and it even transcends death

The problem is that a lot of them basically break down to: Law: “there are some situations where free will and freedom are bad” (objectively bad take) Chaos: “killing is fun and sticking it to the man rules” (objectively unhinged take) Neutral: “this is either the best parts of both of the other two philosophies…..or the worst parts” (either painfully obvious that it’s the ideal option, or it’s even worse than the prior two somehow)

Speaking as an African American, watching that whole "Japan & Christianity" segment really left me feeling mixed! Cause on one hand, what Japan did to oppose Christianity for centuries is absolutely horrid & people SHOULD be able to follow whatever religion they want to, regardless of if it's the native one or not! At the same time, Christianity (& the missionaries who enforced it) unusually has a blatant tendency for slowly destroying, demonizing or corrupting other native religions, history & mythology, instead of just allowing it to exist alongside their own faith. This happened with Canaaniate Mythology, Almost All Germanic Pantheon, The Aztec, Most African Religions, Native Americans, etc... So, while I DON'T think what Japan did was morally right in ANY regard, in a historical sense, it was a blessing in disguise in the long run for helping to preserve Japanese Culture & Religion... Now, as for why the Abrahamic God (YHWH/YHVH) is portrayed in such a negative light in Shin Megami Tensei? Simple, the developers were just largely being faithful on what was established in the original Torah/Tanakh (Old Testament), at least in a non-bias lense! Like, I haven't (& still won't) fully read the Bible, but from what I've researched + the few stories (Genesis, Iyov, Abraham, etc) I've have somewhat read, the devs were mostly on point! They admittedly somewhat exaggerated his disappointment in humanity, but again they were MOSTLY on point! Yeah, making God a Villain or Evil in media is pretty cliche at this point! But in SMT's case, they at least try to depict YHWH/YHVH as the "Sometimes Merciful, but Often Merciless Amoral Tyrant" he was in the original text, instead of just going the easy "Cartoony Evil Prick who just wants to see the World BURN!" route that you'd expect in a parody or lesser work!

My favorite depiction of alignment and God in the megaten is easily Devil Survivor/Overcloked. Only game where I think all the endings are equally worth it (Yuzu’s ending outside of Overclocked excluded). Plus it just does the conflict between all the gods without any real inherit bias one way or another. You are also a lot more involved with the result of the ending compared to other games where you are sometimes just a pawn in a bigger plan.

This was a great analysis and I mostly agree with everything said here though I do disagree in some areas, SMT3 Neutral Freedom: I don't really consider it going against God considering that as Kagutsuchi himself notes, its the option The Great Will himself chose before and the choice still is part of the cycle of rebirth, albeit a reset. SMTSJ Law: While I do also dislike the new ending, especially making Mastema a enemy, (though to be fair Chaos did reveal he wasn't really on Heaven's side and was instead motivated by a desire to achieve a form higher than the other angels) I disagree with everything said about YHVH. Sheinkah while a fellow avatar, is not YHVH and instead usurped his position so she could rule. You can do a sidequest in new game plus where you can either free YHVH who in this game has been split into Metatron and Demiurge or reseal him under the command of a mysterious female voice. (who could be either Mem Aleph or Sheinkah) If freed this version of YHVH is the one of his rare benevolent incarnations and actively joins you if Law (allowing you to have a YHVH vs Sheinkah fight) or just says he'll protect humanity if Neutral. SMTIV Law: I'm honestly confused as I saw almost none of this from my playthourgh of Law. (though I do agree that the Law choices don't sync up with the alignment lock, going from moral and life persevering to the lock's Utilitarianism) The angels did not create the caste system (It was Aquila) and once freed do away with it the first chance they get, with the support of the majority of the population (who are neither brainwashed nor fearful) of Mikado. (the exception being a few Luxors who don't want to lose their power and are dealt with when they try to rebel) Along with a plan to bring up some tech from Tokyo, (which succeeds if you do the side quest) originally there was a plan to save some people from Tokyo according to Merkabath but Walter under the command of Lilith opened the Expanse, causing the already demon infested Tokyo hit critical mass, which if not taken care of quickly would break into the completely demon free Mikado. Flynn and Merkabah allow themselves to be killed because of the genocide they recently committed, while the rest of the angels depart Mikado to allow humans to rule themselves, with the ending outright showing a everlasting actual utopia, unlike SMT1's hope for a better future or SJ's required brainwashing. On a side note, a another criticism I personally have with Law is that group as a whole is based around Utilitarianism, which not only has no connection with Christianity, seems to be the main cause of the majority of problems everyone has with the Law alignment.

nearly an hour of tony4me, I MEAN tony4you? It's going to be a good day

An ending that deals directly with the demon invasion might be cool Law: offers protection/sanctuary from demons Chaos: seeks to live amongst and control demons Neutral: seeks to banish/destroy demons outright

I know this won't happen, but I would love if SMT 6 went real hard on alignment routes and make a lock like 25% in and the rest of the game be drastically different depending on your alignment. I'm also really fucking sick of these games having an ending that has more content than others.

SMT V does have another interesting take on Law or Chaos early on in the game. You have the choice between Apsara who's stated goal is to protect weaker demons but stunts their ability to grow. Or Leanan, who's stated goal is to build up weaker demons into something that can function in the world on their own. They claim each other are bad for the demons under their care so it's up to the player to decide which they value more. Security or independance.

YHVH is not ruthless cause he "hates humanity" but more like one who is "ruthlessly and extremely lawful". They just removed his "benevolent" moniker which is actually fitting. Other than that not considering SMT IV gray ending and considering SMT III reasons "lawful" did increase the number of "bad endings" assigned to law.

"I'm not implying that the Abrahamic God of real life and YHVH of SMT are interchangeable. Of course they aren't, this is a video game with it's own lore." Thank you for that, I agree.

Great video! Would love more nuanced alignments especially with Law in future games, though I admit I loved the Strange Journey Redux take where the new Law ending is a humanity-law focused alignment instead of going the same route other Law alignments do with the same God rules all focus. More options in games would always be great and it'd be nice to get to actually consider what ending I want without gravitating to neutral every time because the others are just so insane or off putting.

I kind of see why Law is almost always depicted in a negative way in SMT, how Christianity co-oped icons of local mythologies and smaller religions and turns them into demons or servants of the lord. There's the old testament where God was quite brutal. And as said in the video missionaries converted some of the population as a prelude to invasion. And finally, the crunch and its members can be quite corrupt and abusive with their power.

This was an amazing video, Tony! Great job and well worth the wait! The alignment system in SMT (both mainline and spin-off) are one of my favorite aspects of the games. You get to decide how the world should change based on your beliefs and the people that you ally yourself with in order to achieve that change. Yet I agree with you, sadly many of the endings in the main SMT games have heavy biases that end up taking away from that type of choice. Like, realistically if I were in these situations, I would end up siding with the Law alignment because ultimately I want people to be safe and to live in peace. Many people do not deserve to suffer, and it makes me sad to see that the worst suffering comes from other people and especially the people who are supposed to keep us safe. So to see me making choices in these games that I think will protect even the most helpless, only to get jebaited when it turns out the God who's supposed to bring that salvation is a tyrant who wants nothing but subservience and the destruction of his detractors in exchange for that peace just does not sit right with me at all. Chaos sometimes appeals to me when it allows people to have freedom without having to completely dissolve into a horrific "might makes right" mentality, but several ends (especially IV's Chaos ending) just kinda leaves me with a bad taste as well. It's for those reasons that I tend to prefer Neutral, but even I can see how short-sighted some of the endings can seem. Also, I loved LadyVirgilia's segment on Christianity in Japan. Christianity in Japan is such an interesting topic because how differently the introduction of Christianity ended up playing out. I'll admit, I didn't know a whole lot about this topic save for the little I found out when researching Amakusa Shiro Tokisada (which btw Tony you should make a video on as this pertains to what LadyVirgilia had talked about in this video's segment), and also because I have a largely Western look on Christianity. I grew up in a Mexican Catholic family and currently live in Utah, who's major religion is Mormonism (and boy howdy do I hate so much about the LDS church...it is not pleasant....), so my view on Christianity is influenced a lot by that upbringing and where I currently live. I've seen and heard about how Religion was used to subjugate native peoples by suppressing their own religion without truly understanding their culture, or how religious laws can often oppress others who do not follow that particular religion. It's a part of that history that is hard to process sometimes, but shouldn't be ignored. Hearing a scenario where that didn't play out, but unfortunately also ended up badly for the people who practiced that religion is pretty eye opening. Religion and its relationships to both the cultures it originated it and the cultures it was introduced in is a very complicated subject, but it's one that I think many people need to understand. Especially in SMT's case when it straight up uses the names of various deities and the Abrahamic God. I hope that maybe one day the writers for SMT6 or whatever can maybe get the input from an outside perspective on alignments, especially Law. It would definitely give a lot of nuance to all alignment endings and hopefully make it feel like you could realistically choose any ending that won't completely go against your ideals. Law without complete subservience, Chaos without the survival and subjugation, and Neutral where you truly can feel like humanity can be autonomous. All with compelling characterization for the characters representing those alignments; human and demon alike.... A person could dream............

Loved the insight into each games bias. Wasn’t expecting the history lesson at the end but it was actually very interesting

Law ending in SMT I is super underrated. Then again, SMT I is underrated in general

There's a lot to unpack here, but one thing I find interesting re: Lady's section. The Japanese loanword for Christianity when it was first introduced was "kirishitan", written in kanji as 吉利支丹 (luck-benefit-support-red earth (?) not sure on the last one). Once the Shogunate persecuted it, it started being written as 鬼理死丹 ("oni ideology death earth") or 切死丹 ("sever death earth"). Kanji languages have this unique way to add bias to words that you don't get in western languages, I've heard of other examples such as certain Chinese tribes having their names written with the "dog" radical at one point in history. Alignments are interesting in theory but often are dragged down by the writers' biases. But in general I find that every individual has such different views of what "Law" and "Chaos" actually are that it's impossible to write for them well as bias will ALWAYS get in the way. I can even see this in the comments with how differently people here view Law and Chaos. For me personally, they can be summed up as "Put the needs of others over yourself" vs "Emphasise personal freedom over the needs of others.", with their extremes devolving into something resembling Communism and Fascism respectively, but that's not how a lot of people see it given how much Law is equated with Fascism and Chaos with "pure freedom with no downsides." I don't know how much of this is due to my upbringing, as I've heard Australian culture is considered to value egalitarianism and is not as staunchly freedom-focused as the US (we're definitely western and individualistic, but not very anti-authoritarian).

Another great video. You made some great points about all of the games. I think SMT V's hidden ending is my favorite. Beating back the demons and angels to protect humanity is one of my favorite parts about the series. Creating a world for humans, and nothing more, without gods and deities getting in the way. I do think it is weird how the requirement for the ending where you wipe out all demons and gods was doing the side quests that involve helping the nicer demons though (except for Shiva)

the segment with virgilia was really profound and insightful. with japanese media im interested in how the aspects of japanese attitudes translate into writing decisions(because japan is an... interesting country, for better or for worse) so im glad virgilia covered the japanese relationship with mythology here

There's one thing about SMT 1 that still bothers me to this day. Considering God's interpretations throughout all of the SMT series, the intro to the first one always baffles me. After naming your character and dividing up your stat points God gives you a very clear objective: "Beyond this door, both those chosen by God that follow the path of Law and Order, and those that rely on their own power that follow the path of competition and Chaos await you. Be careful not to tip the balance between the two as you proceed..." I don't know if its due to the English translation of the game or what, but its such a clear contradiction of the way he's portrayed in later titles. Hell its a contradiction to his characterization in Megami Tensei 2 as well. Why would the head of the Law faction encourage you down the Neutral path? Maybe that's not God talking to you? Despite being depicted like him in every other game, the game never does specify if that's God or not. I don't know if I'm missing something or I'm overthinking it, but this has always bugged me.

Law Alignment feat: A SMT mainline where YHVH needs to be revived through His Son taking his place. That's right, calling out J.C. for this one. New Testament ass whooping.

Tony I feel I have to disagree with your conclusion in some points. First, DISCLAIMER: This is all based on my own opinion, which is fruit of my own research in mythology. I'm not trying to offend anyone here nor have I any intention to do so. Also, english is not my first language, so sorry if I make your eyes bleed, is not intentional. Let's address the white giant head in the room first: Ywhw. I believe SMT is actually portraying a rather _faithful_ version of the abraamic god, although painted with that which was discussed by Lady Virgillia. Taking the old texts of judaism, christianity and Islamism show, through non-believer point of view, that Ywhw is a rather "difficult"(being very generous here) entity to deal in many ways(his "my way or death" doesn't really help here). I don't want to go full Richard Dawkins or Hitchens here(because at the end of the day, the character we are discussing is within a fictional tale) because that would miss the point, but the entity of law _does not_ equates a entity of good. Now let's talk about law itself: Law is, at the end of day, following the rules. If something percevied as good happens from it, it's a side effect, not the main point. Ywhw focus is obedience and prayer to him, and him only. Anything that strays from that is seem as evil and must eliminated. Mastema actually shows that in the way he intends to bring the 1000 year plan and how he reacts with the player slightly going away from what he intends. One important difference I must stress is that Good and Evil are not linked to Law and Chaos. And that is the point *I* believe SMT is trying to hammer in. Going towards the extremes of the alignments exarcebates too much their cons and eventually contrives their pros. However, going Law easily ends up derailing into a distopia or something similar because at the end of the day, the one "in charge" *is not* interested in the "good" of all bellow it, but rather to keep the system running the way it is. In the Heroic Tale of Aslam(Aslam Senki) there is one particular metaphor here that I think it fits. It's about the throne and who sits on it. Power corrupts, and as such, tyrants and despots are made, however, that is not on power itself, but rather who uses it(the one who sits on the throne). However, if one constantly makes the effort to be better, to look foward and towards those around it, one can push for a better outcome. In our case, the one in the throne is arguably NOT a good entity, and thus, we have what we have. As a experiment, I would love to see a lawful ending in a game where _after_ you win the battle, you have to deal with the consequences and still make thing right. Now, before I arm myself to defend against the law zealots, let's go to the other extreme, Chaos. Chaos is, at the end of the day, an nonsensical fantasy. By having absolute no control or order, humanity reverts to nothing more than a bestial shadow of itself, where the law of the jungle reigns and that is utter horrible for everyone involved (except the ones who are unchanging). Because let's remember, people CHANGE. They get older, they get weaker, they change their mind about things based on their experience. Chaos is NOT interested in the good of people, chaos leaves the good of the individual at the hands of the said individual, and assuming one is capable, that has a timer of duration simply due to the nature that humans change and get weaker. There's also that famous saying "there is always a bigger fish". What can one do when one can't afford to defend one self? Resign to fate and die in acceptance? Wouldn't that be a very twisted lawful perception of how things should go? In that case, should one go down fighting a pointless battle just to die in resistance and defiance? That would be definitely more chaotic, but equally futile. Also let's not kid yourselves, but going only with what your instinct tells you to do(or you would rather have _orderly_ thoughts?) will bring misfortune and sadness to others in your way. After all, your life impacts everything around you, and sometimes some of the waves generated by said impact may come back to negatively affect you. As a note, going back to the experiment I proposed for law: after a chaos victory, what would happen if you had to deal with the ensuing world? You are already the top dog most of the times so what you say you can enforce, but what about the others? I don't think the world would treat the less powerful kindly. You might have noticed that I pulled towards the extremes of each side here. It was intentional because I don't believe that a balance would be kept for long should one of the alignments become absolute dominant. Also, I pulled good and evil out of the equation because such things can act and happen despite the aligment. But then comes the question, would you truly rely on the goodness of heart of an all powerfull being(in the case of law) or of all others whom you have to live with in a world ruled by the powerful(in the case of chaos)? The answer to this questions would seem to be: it depends. Good and Evil can pull back the extremes of each aligment, pulling things more towards a less focused view. Lets talk about neutral now. Given my current rhetoric, you would be forgiven to think that I'm a neutral fan. But the case is, not really. SMT portrays the neutral as mere "keeping the status quo" at best or downright "stagnation by inercia" at worst. In the way I see it, being neutral is not being swayed by any pull towards law or chaos, but also not really doing anything. "True neutral" is something rather apatic and really, really hard to do/be in my views. Neutral would fight back against the reach of the others, but not do anything besides that if not interacted with. Once again, I believe that Good/Evil makes the real difference here. Both can push neutral towards something, but the end result tends to be "better" at the end. Will you break a law to save someone? Will you forgo something _you want_ to help achieve something else for others? Then again, I think the notion of good and evil we're talking here is a bit generic and not very realistic. Good and evil in this way depends on the point of view of all affected. We can see this in the way Ywhw reacts to you fro example. When you're with him, you're good, while all the people you genocide might really have to say you're evil. While on the other hand, if you don't act with him, you're the worst spawn of degeneracy and evil that even blighted the earth. But the people behind you, being shielded from death will say you are the savior of goodness incarnate. I realize that this example is VERY simplistic and narrow, but I believe the point stands. Good and evil depend on point of view, which is why I think SMT didn't really expand on those very clearly. Now, I may sound like a western poser, but I think the way D&D treats this particular conumdrum is a bit more elegant. Good is altruism and evil is egoism. Doing something that benefits others at some cost to you is seems as good, but that begs the question: at what point is the cost too much? Conversely, acting out for your own gain at the cost of others seems evil, but who are those others, how much it really costs for them? See how things get more nuanced? I believe SMT would benefit if they could add a "altruist vs egoist" specter to their endings. However, it would add "shades" to the main axis, not really change the script to a "altruist vs egoist" kinda of battle, because that don't makes sense. Also, I think that by adding some push back to the "extremes" of the alignments, the story would greatly benefit. Like, going 80% law instead all the way to distopia, keeping a small charge of freedom and disorder to make things less bleak. One thing I would like to address at the end is the Secret Neutral ending of SMT 5. I actually enjoyed that ending because it mirrors a certain existencial dread we all have, that we are just a very small and very noisy irrelevant part of the cosmos. We can only make waves in our limited pond, while the whole universe trudges towards a heat death. While at glance it might sound nihilistic, it also offers the chance of an untreaded path: if nothing matters, why not make the best of it, even if only for yourself? Instead of looking for a meaning that isn't really there, become a meaning, assign a meaning yourself! Once the shackles are cast down and you are truly free, you can go anywhere. At least, that is the reading I take from that ending, because that is the viewpoint I carry with me. Phew, that was a long one! I hope no one got offended(which I doubt, but hoping never hurts) and once again would like to say that I didn't plan to offend or demean anyone. I just wish to debate ideas and viewpoints (which is a fool's errand on the internet, but we can strike gold sometimes). If you managed to read until here, thanks for you time ^^

Great video. I myself have a bias against law because of how Yahweh and the biblical teachings was portrayed to me in my Catholic/Christian upbringing and found it deplorable. Interesting to see how culture plays a role in how religions are portrayed in media.

I really like how Neutral works in both SMTIV and SMT Strange Journey. Neutrality could come from different points of view. Either you don't care (White Ending), you do not understand the conflict enough or aren't trully sure of what to choose (Isabeau as a Character, and Demon Ending on SMT3) or total willingles to keep figthing by yourself, in a battle that you don't even know that when or even, can be won (Freedom Ending in SMT3, and how ambigous the SMTIV neutral ending is).

i like how in smt iv to get the law ending you have to be a good person the whole game, then the moment you get locked, boom, genocide

Great video. It really sheds a light on why the law alignment in SMT is always portrayed the way that it is. It also helps with understanding why they went with the themes of polytheism vs. monotheism for SMT V, as it is a more interesting topic in a region where Christianity isn't the de facto religion. The story is still deeply unsatisfying, but the endings do give people with a mix of different opinions at least one ending they'll be satisfied with.

I have always had a Chaos bias despite the issues present in it (such as the survival of the fittest, easy means to suppress humans, etc). One game I actually like this in is IV, not because Lucifer himself is necessarily appealing, but because I felt Chaos Akira had a better chance at creating a truly equal and fair world for everyone than Law Akira or the Neutral route. It just felt like a world where, sure, there may be a great deal of chaos and uncertainty for a while, but such freedom also grants the potential for an individual who will truly unite and work toward a world of peace to exist someday. And when it comes to ideal worlds, you have to think beyond your scope.

God in SMT is based on Gnosticism Demiurge, a powerful figure who beleieved hinself as a supreme deity, so that's why he's a bad guy in SMT. It was very clear in SMT Nine, in that game a figure called "Sophia" have a big roll in Natural ending.

I think it’s hilarious how you tend to have to play Devils Advocate for many Law Endings.

This is a very good video, I enjoyed it a lot. This was a great look into the alignments and their real life contexts.

I disagree with SMT4's chaos ending being a bait and switch. it was pretty heavily foreshadowed with blasted tokyo/infernal tokyo how law and chaos both start out as hopeful ideologies (with each version of tokyo's respective akira genuinely wishing to better the world through either law or chaos as a reaction to what alignment destroyed tokyo), but that they have pretty grim outcomes when taken to their extremes. We see this progression in both the law and chaos routes. Law starts out being about preserving the peace of mikado, and ends with genocide of tokyo to get rid of god's enemies. Chaos starts out being about judging people through merit and fighting oppression, and ends with the eternal power struggle of anarcho monarchism. While it may seem sudden (since the route split is so late in the game), i feel as though the ending presented in the chaos route is simply the logical extreme of that ideology. SMT4 as a whole i feel makes a pretty powerful statement about the dangers of ideological extremes, with three out of the four endings being pretty objectively bad endings. This comes at the cost of a more interesting alignment choice though, i agree.

You call it a biased problem, I call it being faithful to the source material of religions. Specifically Gnosticism which I'm surprised wasn't brought up once since that's the version of god that SMT uses.

Smt5 is one of the only mainline games, where i think law is the best ending for me. YHVH wasn't potraid like a villain in it.

The thing that strikes a chord with me about even some of SMT's more critical portrayals of the law alignment isn't just "religion=bad", which may seem to be the core idea of many entries, but that can also be a surface-level interpretation of something deeper. The series has stated a few times that the gods and demons seen in the games arise from mankind's many facets and desires, which is why many of the most powerful figures can never seem to be defeated once and for all. Thus, the incarnations of YHVH seen in SMT are also beings that reflect an aspect of humanity. I view the games in which the big man Himself is simply not present-or not in a way that's obvious-as some of the most compelling for this reason. In SMTIV, the archangels and their order are definitely shown to be comically hostile and merciless, but this works when they only CLAIM to serve the interests of God, who remains suspiciously absent. God is alluded to, but is never seen or confirmed to be in His true form with the player's own eyes. In the chaos and neutral endings, you don't have the honor of fighting Him, but rather, a messenger of dubious nature. For that reason, I see IV's depiction of law as a great showcase of the dangers of fundamentalism, which can lead to mere mortals developing their own god complexes. Then I have plenty of issues with Apocalypse's story, and of course "you're cool dude who gets to face off with THE God this time!" is undeniably fan service, but even that doesn't come off as too cheesy to me. Nanashi and Flynn are plainly referred to as Messiahs, who are sent by none other than the Great Will to overthrow the doctrine implied to be a reflection of some humans' desires. So that manages to continue at least some of the concepts found in the original IV, albeit with much more spectacle than elegance. Persona 3 may take the role as the most obvious "Christian video game", but the subtext can certainly be found in mainline SMT as well, which many fans may not be ready to really see when the series has garnered such a reputation for some seemingly superficial edge.

Drink everytime Tony says *"LAW"* You'll literally meet YHVH by the end.

I'm glad someone else actually likes the normal neutral ending in smt 5 besides me, just feels like no one cares about mainly because true neutral exist and is harder to get. I like it more then true neutral because just erasing the demon problem and reverting back to how things where does not seem to give more room for humanity to grow compared to humanity trying to find it's way despite the demons and now no longer having a threat of a god taking the throne and shaping the world (while I do wish you got another boss fight like the other 3 endings, if they really don't want you to destroy the throne they should make a better attempt at actually stopping you) Law always being bad is really annoying as they usually are either kill everyone or brainwash everyone or a combination of the 2 so it's kind of predictable. The actual ending to law in smt 5 I think was better then chaos but yeah the story is all over the place, law is at its best when it's as far removed from yhvh as possible. I think the only law route in smt game I chose as my ending was devil survivor 1 it was one of my first smt games and is still one of my favorites

Kind of funny how many people mistake Law/Chaos for Good/Evil. You're usually dealing directly with these entities in the games, and these entities are pure embodiments of their respective ideals; The extremism is unavoidable unless you're dealing with a proxy like SMT3's reasons. Was SMT4 really such a bait a switch? You literally time travel to the respective hellscapes of both law and chaos; would you want to life in a ruined desert as part of a cult that worships the very entity that tried to destroy them (but only failed due to Flynn's intervention), or in a anarchist paradise at the bottom rung of the ladder as nothing more than food? And that "secret" SMT5 ending is utterly nihilistic; not to the degree of SMT4's "blackhole lol" meme, but in erasing the supernatural, you deprive life of any and all meaning; what's the meaning of life? nothing. Why do we exist? there's no reason. There's no aliens, no simulation theory, no creator, just a grand emptiness; I'm not surprised your guest finds this notion tragic.

Associating YHVH with the law route is a bad idea to begin with. It makes sense on paper, god being the embodiment of law in Abrahamic religions, but it results in all kinds of contradictions unless you make law the default 'good' ending. I've always figured the routes have nothing to do with good or evil, rather: Law = total order at the cost of individualism; Choas = ultimate freedom at the cost of empathy; Neutral = The middle road, or humanity at its core. With all flaws and beauty kept as is. I love this breakdown, and it's really nice to get a bit of context with the Japanese history. It seems I view the series as a whole in a completely different way, which has made me look back at some of it in a new light. This could be an amazing discussion in a lot of ways. Thanks!

Always appreciate long-form content. Keep up the good work Tony Forces of Good and Evil.

Honestly, I kind of feel the entire law vs chaos thing is kind of a holdover from the first SMT game where the entire point was mostly just that extremes are bad and neutral is the only sensible choice. Like, yeah, you aren't wrong that the messiahs aren't that evil in the first game... until you remember that the god they worship is the very reason why all of society got nuked in the first place. What with him using Thor to control America and getting them to nuke Japan (SMT 1 is weird). Which still basically turns the law ending into a pretty unambiguous "evil wins!" kind of deal. With that said though, I do think some games handled it better than others. Strange Journey and Nocturne are both basically the same as SMT 1 insofar that neutral is really the only sensible choice (Though in both cases the updated rereleases significantly muddle things), but both do so in very different ways. Especially Strange Journey's highly ambiguous Lorax "Unless" ending. Devil survivors is also a great example, though obviously not a mainline game. It helps that the unambiguously worst ending in that game is technically neutral, or at least not law and chaos. So, in my opinion, I would honestly say the main point to be made here is to focus on different themes. Law bad, and to a lesser extent chaos bad, has pretty much been done already. I'm not saying you have to do away with the sides entirely, but putting a new twist on them is kind of a necessity to not just make your game a repeat of SMT1 with even less ambiguity. At worst you end up with SMT4, where being really nice to everybody ends up with you killing anything. Which is a... somewhat questionable story direction.

This video got pretty preachy at the end, no pun intended.

The one thing I liked about SMTV's Law is the denialism showed by Abdiel, the "YHVH's totally not dead! He will eventually solve all of this! This huge problem you're all so afraid of totally isn't real!" It perfectly encapsulates the same mentality you see many modern religious nuts use in the face of big crises like the pandemic and climate change. Issue is in terms of appeal, it really doesn't help persuade you to side with Law at all. Since it shows how ignorant and irresponsible the Law faction is without any real merits to back it up. Dazai's character being based around "hey someone please make all the decisions for me!" doesn't make it any more convincing either. Not to mention as exactly as shown in SMTV, you literally cannot keep such kind of character viable into the end game, where it became undeniable that YHVH's dead and Abdiel and Dazai *has to make a decision for themselves,* especially when that decision comes in the form of them breaking YHVH's own law. It shows that Law is hypocritical and the rules are only to be followed when it suits them.

I'm largely a Chaos player when it comes to SMT so I tend to have a strong bias toward those endings, but some of the other endings can be interesting as well. On that note, I have a very different take on the Chaos ending from SMT V and I think it is the only positive ending in the game. Here is a comment I had written previously on the ending that had been pretty well-received, so I'll share it again in case anyone would like an alternate interpretation of it: "This is the only ending in the game that I like. The conflict that comes immediately is not something that will necessarily go on for eternity. The world created in this ending is one where the potential for things to get better exists, but it is up to those participating in it to make that potential manifest. Under God's world of an imposed artificial order, that order came at the price of the potential for growth for humans, demons, and gods. While the birth of the world of potential may seem messy, it also provides the opportunity for all beings to grow and become something better if they can find a way to reduce that conflict and learn to live with each other. Even if that chance isn't the greatest while gods are in conflict with one another, it is at least possible in this world while it was impossible within God's world. That potential all depends on whether gods, demons, and humans are willing to grow up. If they don't, then they don't deserve the potential that is possible for them to have. Why I think this is better than the 'true neutral' ending is that this ending provides the opportunity for gods to be reunited with their Knowledge and that provides them with the resources to potentially have the perspective to guide humans and demons toward growth. Humans alone lack that information on the nature of reality and their growth would be much more slow as a result. This of course then puts the burden of the actualization of that potential upon the gods. If the Nahobino found a way to end the Mandala System, then that would at least reduce the incentive in one way in which gods compete with one another for power. Should the gods that desire progress unite against those who want to act like barbarian warlords, then the possibility for reaching that potential will greatly increase. They should ideally also learn what not to do from God's example and realize imposing an artificial order for the sake of order will also remove the potential for growth for all things and will require authoritarianism to uphold that order. So even if the chances for true growth seem small, at least they are a possibility in this ending. It would likely take a great deal of time for things to get better, but at least it remains as a possibility. After all, it was partially through the huge blow to the infrastructure upholding the order of the Middle Ages caused by the Black Plague that allowed for the innovations of the Renaissance to be possible and the process of revolution generally comes in the form of struggle. As Nietzsche said in Thus Spoke Zarathustra 'I say unto you: one must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. I say unto you: you still have chaos in yourselves.' Lucifer seemed to understand this very well."

One major point I wanted to respond to: The very nomenclature of the "YHVH alignment" as "law" indicates authoritarianism, at least in some sense, as its focus. I don't find a bias towards or against authoritarianism to be surprising or necessarily reflective of a bias for/against any particular religion, in which case maybe the problem you're identifying isn't that law is commonly the worst alignment - it's the persistent depiction of the Abrahamic God as the focal point of law/authoritarianism, in which case that might be an artifact of the mythos' choice to adopt Abrahamic religion as the dominant religious backdrop in most of the games (at least, the one standing above other religions in power). The SMT3 analysis is particularly interesting in this regard - you identified Musubi as the "truest essence of law" with everyone becoming their own creator, when I think others might see that as the "truest essence of chaos/freedom" - everyone getting to live in their own world with absolute freedom. In contrast to Shijima, it does not have the authoritarian note of coercing uniformity, and it's unusual to call it "law" since while everyone can form their own rules in their own worlds, those are not really "law" - there are no true beings in those worlds to be bound by such "law" except the world's creator, who is not bound.

My biggest problem with alignments in smt is representation For as much as this series wants to present each route as a viable option and none of the three are explicitly good or evil.....they seem to loooooooooooove making the law route the most evil one Kaneko's interviews about how he doesnt think he represented god as a villain.....literally most games in the series portray law as the genocidal evil option and make it so neutral and chaos are the two best routes to take.I get that Japan doesnt exactly like abrahamic religions and considering history some of it is justified........but its been a huge overgeneralization when it comes to how law is portrayed Only devil survivor 1 seemed to have given law a fair shot as a route and even then it does fall into few of the same trappings as tje other games You'd think this would be obvious but,not every christian is a genocidal crusader and christianity isnt the only abrahamic religion. There is Judaism and Islam but Atlus mostly seem to take from the christian side of abrahamic history

Ideal situation: Law: Using control to enforce meaningful peace onto the world. It is important that this ending be absolute without wiggle room. To grant everlasting finality. Chaos: Value personal freedom over all else. You do not guarantee anyone's safety or happiness, but you create a playing field where people can be rewarded for their merit. Neutral: Unlike law and chaos, neutral should not offer as sound a solution to the games core conflict as either of them. Neutral is to stave off the issues for now or trade away an immediate problem for one a little more longterm. It's to hope, hope for something better. Even with no clear evidence that it'll ever get better. Law is for angels, pure and complete. Chaos is for demons, ambitious and varied. So it is fitting that neutral is for humans. It's the least powerful, the least definitive, the most risky, the hardest to achieve. It solves nothing, only kicking the can down the road, hoping humans might have a better solution one day. What could be more human than to struggle and hope?

One thing to consider is that Judaism started off as more of a henotheistic religion; acknowledging the existence of many gods, but selecting YHVH as a sole patron. It later developed into a monotheistic religion where YHVH was deemed the only one that was *actually* a God and the others _claiming_ divinity were just rogue angels. I think the message behind the Law endings is that Law often presents itself as synonymous with Good and portrays anything opposing it as Evil. Law isn't intended to be a "Good" ending, it's meant to be a _cautionary_ ending of believing you are doing good things for the benefit of the world and its people, only to find that it either isn't nearly as ideal as you had hoped or might even be outright disastrous. "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions", and often Hell can look deceptively like Heaven, for those who remember that one "Got Milk?" commercial. Another thing to consider is that it has already been established that the only thing that really separates YHVH from the demons that were sealed in Hell is that he won the throne; before that, he was just another one of them. Is it possible that it isn't something inherent to him but, rather, an effect of the throne itself? Maybe before, he was more reasonable and thought he really *could* make the world a perfect utopia but not by stripping freedom and humanity. But the throne was too much for him to handle and it changed him.

I honestly think that the roots of the way SMT protrays Law and its association with Abrahamic religions goes deeper than just the political history. It's nowhere near as strongly emphasized these days, but the philosophical underpinnings of Abrahamic faith are in the adherence to monotheism, against the predominantly polytheistic norm elsewhere. The concept of evangelism in Christianity (sending missionaries to convert people) is historically an activity associated with suppressing polytheistic pagan folk religions, like with the Christianization of the Norse, or how indigenous Lithuanian paganism was essentially wiped from history by crusading. So like it or not, the association that outsiders make towards Christianity and Abrahamic faiths is that of aggressive proselytism that attempts to assimilate anyone who holds different beliefs, often under the pretext of representing a single universal truth under God, that hence overrides every other religious perspective. This is why SMT naturally gravitates to the theme of shattering the established divine order under the one true god, whether through chaos or neutral alignment, and that law is always out to dogmatically assimilate everyone under that order. It essentially represents how Christianity has presented itself to the world throughout history, and in some ways continues to do so to this day.

strange journey is peak SMT

i personally couldnt get behind smt1 and 2 gameplay, but hearing them described here makes me desperately want them to be remade so i could enjoy the great story without dealing with the outdated gameplay

It's not hard for me to choose. I look at nature. In which path does nature thrive? Not man, nature. Which is why it was so easy for me to go Law in SMTIV. The world of Mikado is lush, vibrant and healthy. The world below was so FUBAR that a final solution was needed. Easy choice. If you need to guide humans so that they live in peace with nature then so be it. That's true Law.

People don't seem to understand that YHVH isn't actually god hes the demiurge who thinkks hes god. Great Will is the actual god which is why it keeps making super powerful protagonists to fight him

Still crazy how the only good law ending is SJ Redux

One of the most compelling video from you. The alignment bias is also nicely summed up too in a thought-provoking way... :)