Who gives a rat's patootie the blessed thing doesn't run? Why, those splendid chaps in the Hornby Quality Control Division know perfectly well that money grows on trees, and I rather always wanted a B12 to use as a paper weight. Terrific insight by the Hornby Blokes, and once again they have taken my confidence to new heights. That is, on a scale of negative integers.

Still running my 59 year old Triang B12. It has never missed a beat and is now just nicely run in.

I stupidly broke my golden rule February this year of never to buy Hornby again , I bought the B12 from Kernow . It ran well during running in and for about a month afterwards. I then put it back in its box and thought it was a good one . After seeing Model Railways Unlimited I thought I better get it back out again to give it an extended run and sure enough it started to run just like yours . I contacted Hornby’s service department and straight away the chap said oh yes we know about this and that they had a fix for it , so mine has gone back for repair . If when I get it back if fails again it will go back to Kernow for a refund as I think Hornby knew damn well these had faulty motors just like the S15’s that they were doing cheap some years ago . I’ll be surprised if you get a reply from Hornby . David

Hornby knows how to charge exorbitant prices, it’s just a huge shame that they don’t spend any of that money on quality control ☹️☹️☹️

Hi Sam, thanks for the shout out, yes after extensive testing the motors are clearly faulty, I pulled my motor apart and put up a video showing what I found. It's either a brush problem or they are wrong voltage, ie too low. The excess heat causes failure of commutator and windings and is a fire risk. I'm so sad about this. I've heard Hornby now admit the problem but then the same happened to my S15. No B12 should draw more than 160ma off load.

Had this exact issue with my D16 that was seriously discounted. Sent it back to Hornby who said 'It performs well, it should be like this' when it REALLY shouldn't! Sent it back for a replacement motor, still didn't work, so sent back for a complete replacement. Will let you know how that gets on!

I bet the stuff my dad had 50 years ago would run more reliably then this, the models available in the 70's were as BASIC as basic can get, but they just worked, also, would you consider reviewing older models from like 30 or more years ago, it would be really interesting to see how they compare to todays models.

Yep, as I expected when I started watching your presentation. My 2 x B12 chassis are currently (oops) in Margate waiting for new motors. One of mine peaked at 800mA, then settled to 400mA (which the second maintained) before stopping on the rolling road. Both of mine started out on the rolling road fine, but failed subsequently. A real shame since they are such good models. Incidentally, it's the same motor that previously plagued the S15's. Looking forward to seeing your dissection and whether you reach the same conclusion as Mike did. So yes indeed, who is culpable, because someone knew! Another good presentation, thanks, Chris.

In the reproduction of the first Railway Modeller magazine from 1949, the Trix Twin Railway company on page 29 stated : But no considerations, whether of improved scale appearance or of "ingenious improvement" will ever be allowed to weigh against those of the utmost attainable operating reliability, which has been the outstanding feature of the Trix Twin Railway since its inception. What a shame this is no longer the case with modern money grabbing manufacturers.

Such a shame. Beautiful loco which we know is capable of performing well let down by a shoddy motor. If Hornby did supply hattons with these to sell very cheaply I recon Hornby did know these were faulty but maybe deliberately told them they were fine. Knowing Hornby these days they’ll probably say they didn’t know of any faults. Only time will tell. Great vid anyway bud 👍

This is sad to see. Imagine some poor individual getting this as a present. How did these garbage motors get to ruin such an expensive item ?. Take them to the vet to be put down.

No consumer, regardless of the product, should accept sub standard or faulty items Straight back to the retailer for full refund or replacement under the Sale of Goods Act

When you showed the motor with the two flywheels, I was a bit shocked to notice quite a few drill bit points machined at various points around each brass flywheel. I've never seen that on any make of 00-gauge loco before. Its dynamic ballancing of the motor's rotor (armature). I've actually done that when I was an apprentice in aerospace, where my company made rotating electrical machines. A strobe light highlights the position to add or remove mass as appropriate. Now if you bought that loco new, then that means Hornby did it. Looking below on my phone as I write this, I can see recommended videos of others who have also reviewed this loco and they are also mentioning motor issues in their title descriptions !

At least mine lasted 2 weeks, took it back to the retailer he tested it and the motor was drawing 700ma, he then rang Hornby and was told they didn't have a replacement motor in stock and would not be getting any. Nice one HORNBY!

There's a serious flaw in the scoring when you give this train a 7. Two defective trains, value isn't 4 it's zero. Mechanism also zero.

Dang it. I appreciate you finally getting around to posting it. I got one of these for maybe $102 USD and now I’m going to have to send not only my W4 Peckett but possibly I’ll have to send back my B12.

Great review Sam, had one of the older B12s in LNER green break down similarly as well, so I'm pretty sure it's just a 50/50 chance with em all. Sent mine back for a B17 instead, which still performs much better to this day.

Awesome video Sam's trains

I also bought 2 of them and are sorry now my self . I have watched many other videos by other 00 scale train lovers and have all the same problems. This did not just happen . Someone had to know because they say on their videos they contacted Hornby. So they should have recalled them . So now I have to add them to my S15 that have problems also. Thank your your input. I can always trust your videos.

I had ordered a B12 and the royal scot when the sale was on. I was unable to get a B12 due to a system glitch that showed they hadn't sold out yet. However, the royal scot that was the same price as the B12 runs perfectly. Great review Sam. Keep up the good work

I have a Blue B12 from the old Anglean Train set (and it has a chuff chuff sound box in the tender). THANK GOD mine runs like a dream.

Very fair review. It would look nice in my cabinet as it will never move!

Hey Sam I got one of these a few months ago in LNER Apple green I remember asking you how I convert The couplings to be usable with my rolling stock since I live in the US suffice to say this is one of the best running locomotives I have ever had and now one of my favorites thank you for getting me interested in British rails

Mine ran o.k. for about 3 sessions, then started jerking and failed. I looked at reviews and decided to contact hornby who seemed puzzled until I mentioned the reviews. Sent back 3 may returned 7 may, with new motor installed. Its on the rolling rd at the moment and is running warm, so I am not too confident. Keep up the good work.

I have been saying for years, loco reviews should include current drawn. 👍

It’s the mixed traffic black livery I think it’s a handsome livery even for passenger trains

Once again it's Hornby's wretched motors! The B12 can now join the hallowed ranks of other Hornby failures; the melting Class H, the random variable speed and overheating feature of the S15, the 'new' Terrier which stops on a whim etc., etc. I've had it with this hobby Sam; what with the absurd costs we're being charged for sub-standard rubbish, and the added gamble and hassle of returning and hoping the replacement works. All my stock now resides with a well-known shop in Sheffield. I will, however, continue to enjoy your informative and revealing reviews! Thanks as always.

i have a green b12 and like yours it is a perfect runner despite being in need of a service (last was pre covid) also can confirm that irl it runs round curves beautifully.

Boy, am I ever glad I got a used Hornby Railroad B12 and not that one. I almost did, but now I'm sure if I want a modern B12. I'll stick with mine, thank you.

I don't know if these motors have the same fault as the Pendolino ones I bought to upgrade the 3 pole motors in my Tornado and Duke of Gloucester. Eventually I took the motor apart and found the clip that holds the magnets inside the motor had fell off, making the magnets rub against the motor rotor. Easy fix to mend it other than the magnets make if difficult to put it back in the right place. Of 4 motors I think there were two that were suspect. As I say easy fix, but I shouldn't have to.

lovely video sam

Hey Sam - I have 2 B17/2 Class, both came in 2 different Train Sets - Signature Range - 'East Lincs Special' - BR No. 61619 called 'Welbeck Abbey' came with 3 Plank Wagons , 1 Cattle Wagon & a Conflat & Container Wagon, & the other Set is called "East Coast Express" - BR No. 61672 Called 'West Ham United' came with 2 'Custard & Cream' Carriages!!! (Both Locos in BR Green) 🙂🚂🚂🚂

Bought one back in Jan for $153 USD from Amazon UK for delivery here in the states, still runs ok. I would venture that the Chinese maker "Shine Dew Company" or whomever, assembled and shipped a quantity of X units (100? 500?) with bad motors..

I think I like the B12 in BR Black is my favorite. So handsome, those locos in black.

Amazing B12

I will buy both this and 2 LNER green versions to make Alfred in black LNER green and LNER blue

My green B12 developed a different problem after dissecting the motor and finding nothing out of the ordinary I discovered it would run fine until put back in the loco. I traced the fault to a poly fuse on the DCC socket board that was cutting out at any speed above 40%. I remove the device and bridged the connection and do far it’s back to normal. I made a video on the findings.

I had a Hornby like this not sure if it was the same train in the 70's. It had N.E. markings and 'sound' from a sandpaper strip in the tender scraping against a prong. It had the same, basic coupling rods.

I ran mine this afternoon. Luckily no problems. Mines on DCC wonder if that makes a difference.

Hi Sam, unfortunately I have had the same experience, I purchased the first B12 from Amazon which had the fault shown in your video which I duly returned. I purchased a second example from amazon again only to suffer the exact same fault and will also be returning this one ! I am relatively new to the hobby and have purchased over twenty Hornby locos over the last eighteen months and have had to return over 30% of them because of major faults all to do with performance, sometimes more than once. I enjoy this hobby as I use it to reduce stress and it works but in future I will be avoiding Hornby locos not because of the price (although some are extortionate) but because I am fed up with the lottery of whether they will in fact run, this is such a shame as some Hornby locos such as the B12 are beautiful. Many thanks for the reviews as they have really helped my introduction into this fascinating hobby!

It's probably the tender pickups because they tend to provide power to the motor and the ones online are probably refurbished models and ones produced after Hornby found out were upgraded to run properly. Hornby probably didn't know initially, but when they found out, they held up production until it was fixed undoubtedly

I love Sam's trains it gives me nostalgic hornby memories and reminds me why I love locos so much glad you are still going you never fail to make me enjoy these videos -callum

Bought mine from Tony's Trains last year, BR Black but with early crest! Tested it running up and down and with a load with no problems but have not run it since, worth getting out and investigating?

Gonna have a proper run in session with mine now based on this.

Hi Sam bought one as well so far so good but was running it in on one loop and decided to run it in the other direction on the same loop only for it to derail in the same spot each time and the only thing I could find was the cab floor was hitting the crank handle for the water scoop filed a small section away and problem solved. when you tested the armature and got different readings to me that would be the cause of the motor overheating due to the imbalance in the windings ie motor wanting to speed up and slow down all in one rotation( just a thought) someone else found a problem with the circuit board in the tender a component was only rated to 6 volts ??? keep up the good work

This is much worse than you think. A few years ago I bought a trainset for a friends child - it was a 'central trains' identical to those that passed the childs home several times a day. The child was delighted with the model. He woke up in the night and started it running - unknown to his parent. He then fell asleep watching it. His mother only noticed in the morning when she woke him for breakfast - so it had been running for hours. Had that train gone faulty, it could easily have started a fire. And here are Hornby selling bad products that are likely to be used in the same way. This is very bad indeed - more so as they are supposed to be a market leading brand. (The point here is that Sam noticed hot bodywork - so the internals were probably even hotter)

I like the look of this B12 locomotive on the BR Black livery! If only it had a better performance, than the locomotive would’ve been scored an 8. But overall, it’s a great locomotive! Reminds me a lot of Alfred.

The prices i see for these modern things is the reasons why I’m always browsing the Hattons Pre-Owned Section

I was given a Hornby R855 FLYING SCOTSMAN LNER CLASS A3 locomotive as a 23rd birthday present away back in January 1977 . I am now 68 years old and the loco is now 45 years old , has never given me a problem , has had regular maintenance as and when required and It still has it's original X.04 motor in it . You know what it still runs a treat no problem . Okay so it's not super detailed but who cares really . At least it is reliable robust easily handled with no worries and does what it was designed to do with no fear of parts falling off . Also it worked first time out of the box and like i say still does today . Whereas today's 00 gauge "super duper detailed" model locos are overpriced and overhyped and flimsy to handle and i will never again buy a new one from any manufacturer . I can't help getting the feeling all manufacturers are ripping everyone off with their over inflated prices and lack of proper quality control . I too have been stung in the past but am no longer buying into any of it .

Ok, I gotta admit, after seeing this review I've fallen a bit in love with this locomotive. even if it's faulty, I wouldn't mind giving it some TLC to get it working properly. Will definitely keep my eye out for one second hand one (maybe not this specific model) if I'm looking to get back into HO/OO models.

Great Video Sam. Liked the slick Music intro, very 20/30's Britain. As for BR. Black...! That was my Youth 1960's London was all Black. ( Unlike today..!) Ww2 had a lot of Black Paint Splashed everywhere. Also Smoke from Bombing, Fires and the Coal in most homes. So most Buildings were Black. Even my School uniform was all Black. Dads Car (A35) was Black. Even TV ( what there was..! ) had a lot of Black thrown in..! Apart from the Actors or News readers..! Black was my World until the Late 60's mostly 70's, did colour start to apear..! Anyway great review as Always...!! Hornby, Check your work before Boxing for Christmases sake....! Maybe their 'Going for Broke Literally..!' Cheers kim in Oz.😎

I really want one of these

I have the same issue with my Hornby J36. It just looses power overtime it is seriously slow at some times even carrying its own weight.

Seems to me that the only thing that increases with Hornby is the price, yet the quality and performance seem to get worse. Nevertheless great review as always, Sam ;)

Hi Sam. when I ran my Hattons B12 on DC it was very sluggish, no real speed control and couldn't even manage 2 x Mk1 coaches up an incline of about 4 inches over a length of 6 foot. however after fitting a decoder and running on DCC running was perfect and 5 x Mk1's up the incline no bother. Perhaps the problem is/was with the circuit board and blanking plate in DC.

At the real risk of tempting fate, so far, my version seems to be okay. My heart is now in my mouth though when running it. What I dispair about is that people keep demanding greater detail, which the manufacturers then supply, and yet the quality control on the motors is so variable and is sometimes awful! On your 2nd radius curve, your tender appears to be clashing with the engine's rear can plate. I have not had that problem since my layout has 3rd radius curves but the front of tender looks very close to the rear footplate on the bends. The pick-ups on my model's tender are not perfect but it is fine over my points. I look forward to your NCIS-style medical examination of your motor! On more positive note, I bought a 1973 Hornby 4-4-0 LMS 2P at the Bluebell's 1st May Collector's Fair for £12 as it had been dropped. Careful supergluing and a new brush spring later, it now runs and looks okay.

just got a b12 nice model run a little slow compared to other hornby tender locos, 50 % is slow need ~ 70% for reasonable speed

I was about to buy one of these to compliment my apple green B12 and at my model shop they run the locomotive before you buy it so you know that it runs, when this happened it was dead, unfortunately they didn’t have another so I ended up buying a Raven Q6

BR black or green the B12 look really nice 😊

Great review Sam,the only Hornby items i buy now are used rolling stock,or older models with the Ringfield type motor in,i just don't trust this modern rubbish anymore.I find it terrible if they do know the motor's are faulty when sold,sadly i think Hornby has had it's day.

Selling a load of locomotives cheap to suppliers with a regularly reported fault...yeah no way in heck Hornby wasn't aware of the problem I'm sure.

Darn... a locomotive that costs 79 pounds with 5 star detail, a 5 star mechanism, and theoretically 5 star performance (going off the working B12 example), but with a motor fault that causes it to barely run at all... "We were on the verge of greatness, we were this close."

Hi Sam another great video 📹, I was wondering though how much is to much weight?? The power to weight ratio is important but if the locomotive is tooooòoo heavy won't it burn the motor out?? There has to be a limit to weighing a locomotive, what do you think 🤔??

Have you heard of Sm32 narrow gauge trains? They run on 0 gauge track but are to a scale of 16mm to 1 foot.

wonder if its just this particular B12 because mine on the shopping list is different. If not such a shame as I need one

HI everyone. Following Sams vid I got mine out the box and ran it continually for about 5 hours last night, forward, reverse and with three coaches. No problems. Its was still going fine at 1am this morning. Does the problem manifest straight away? Has anyone had the problem develop after a lot of use over time?

Scared to face up to using mine now, it rolling roaded Ok initially so I added DCC sound but it’s by no means run in and my layout is very much WIP…

Check the serial numbers Sam, it’s possible your green one was from an earlier batch than this, like what happened with the s15s

I was very disappointed missing out on Rocket. But with the final price and for size etc what it actually is, didn't mind too much afterwards. Extremely disappointed to miss out on the battleship grey Hush Hush. Then was kind of relieved given the near 50/50 chance of a broken one and I would have shipped it to Australia from UK so refunds are harder. Was pretty dissapointed to wait for payday and missed the B12 sales. Now I'm pretty happy I did (bought a Bachmann 1P w/ sound instead). Seems to be a theme with Hornby big-hype locos. On a different but related note I'm looking forward to the re-release of Bachmann's L&Y Class 5...

I had one in my Hattons cart and was about to complete checkout. Guess my instinct to pass on it paid off.

I noticed the tender kept popping off on that second radius curve. Also at 29.39 it looks like there is a face in your scenery.

Check the front pipe on the LNER green on. That might cause it not sit correctly

I've got two 1965 Rivarossi Berkshires that still work well enough (one needed a motor change and rewiring though), I suspect they'll outlast these ones by a long time

The livery on this loco is spot on, I like it.

Does it only effect Early BR models? I bought a late BR recently, ran it for about 10 mins and seemed ok but moving property soon so went straight into storage after that. Now paranoid that it'll fail months down the line when I start using it.

Man This makes the Helena looks good! At least they have good runners…

Was going to buy one but idk whether to buy one now as a rather inexperienced modeller at servicing andfixing things

i may have got a faulty one of these i brought one during the sale and was confused as to why it was under performing

I am surprised Hornby hasn't done an unrebuilt one, since that'd allow the earlier liveries to be done as well as the scottish ones until the end of their life. I used to have my dad's old hornby one, but the motor died and it got lost somewhere because it no longer worked. I was going to get one of these specific ones, because I love the transition era liveries such as liveries that include the BR lettering. But they'd sold out before I could buy one. And now I'm kinda glad I didn't get one...

Awesome video sam and I think that engine is base off Alfred the rude tender engine

Very nice loco Sam and am I allowed to make any suggestions for future video’s?

6:34 I thought you had the br blue railroad one

Hi guys, after seeing this video I tested my B12 that I bought in this sale. It *seems* to be ok. Gaugemaster Model Q on a DCC Concepts rolling road, it's pulling 150-ish mA according to my multimeter. I didn't run it for very long but it seems to be stable and not increasing. I'll try and run it in if I get the chance. But this leaves me wondering, am I very lucky, or is Sam just incredibly unlucky? What's the ratio of good to bad B12s from that sale?

"61556" First if all, Hattons are not too blame for any production faults, i.e motors, pickups etc etc !! For the last hour I've been running mine again in panic. (no problem!) Brilliant at crawling, too fast for large radius curves, and alas, no hot motor!!! Am I lucky or what? I wonder how many of these locos break down. A survey,maybe. It would be interesting to find out!. Regards Nigel

Sam, How can you give the Mechanism 5 stars when it does not work? Could the issue be binding in the gears rather than the motor? Or has the lubricant in the gears hardened up?

I wonder if you’ll fix the performance?

In all honesty would we be that surprised if Hornby were offloading faulty stock at discount prices? They are very good at blowing their own trumpet and wringing money out of us but do not value either customers or retailers. That is the type of company they have become unfortunately.

This would make a good candidate for Salvage or Scrap honestly

They are beautiful

B12 #61556 was built by William Beardmore & Company of Glasgow, Scotland on February 28th, 1921 originally for the Great Eastern Railway as their #1556. She later became London & North Eastern Railway #8556 in 1923. She was renumbered to #7470 in 1942 and renumbered again back to #1556 in 1946. She became British Railways #61556 in 1948 and continued service until her withdrawal on December 23rd, 1957. She was cut up for scrap on May 18th, 1958 at Stratford Works.

hey, just wanted to ask, when's your next livestream gonna be? If I'm not working that day, I wanna try and tune in. Hopefully it's on a Sunday or Thursday, because I have those days off!

Hola buenas noche excelente video muy buena la locomotora te mando un abrazo grande y segui asi

​ @Sam'sTrains I received mine from Hatton's today just after watching Sam's review last night - so was very nervous this morning opening and running in loco. It went ok, now had it running for over an hour now with 4 coaches and stopped it to feel boiler and it only barely luke warm. So fingers crossed will see how she goes. Btw mine was R3546 so different livery - don't know if that means a different manufacturing run with different run of motors?

You told a fib there Sam, you have 2 b11 The Lner green and the BR blue one

The issue is Hornby charging Rolls Royce prices and giving Lada build quality. For what they are now charging they could easily afford to fit premium motors and not the seconds they are fitting. I have like you bought a load of the Chinese motors for around a couple of pounds and they perform better than Hornby motors that they charge around £20 for and get way to hot. The issue 90% of the time is cheap shoddy brushes causing way more resistance causing the heat and then erratic running. This is why some work OK and some do not as when you buy cheap brushes the quality can be totally different hence the hit and miss running issues.

Sam, the body is a really tight fit, you have not reassembled your green B12 properly. I found a bit of maneuvering gets the seam perfect. Of note is the cab sides and splashers are also metal and the loco can get round R1 curves with the guard irons fitted! In a recent magazine video Simon Kohler said he welcomes emails from punters, you know what to do...

No wonder Hattons dumped the price of this model. Surely such a major issue as the faulty motors would have been noticed (or better yet, fixed) before the B12s were shipped out to retailers. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Hornby knew about the faulty motors but decided to ship them out anyway, and consequently screwing over the consumers yet again so they could make more money (because that's clearly fair in their eyes). I was considering getting one of these discounted B12s (and the O1 2-8-0), but before finding out about the dodgy motors I went for a Bachmann NER E1 and LBSCR H1 from Rails of Sheffield instead.

Did you find out why the tenders front right wheel comes off round that corner in the end?

Awesome video today Sam beautiful modle such a shame about the quality

4 for value. I’m shocked Sam. It doesn’t work 🙈