The objective discard rule was first used in Shipyard. I raved about it at the time and said more people should be using it. Then, over 10 years later... Ark Nova used it.

For Viticulture, I like to use the Wingspan card market for card draw--you can choose one of the three face up cards and everyone knows what you've got, or you can take off the top.

The late objective discard is a great one that I also use in many games. Another I’m a fan of is doing drafts in games that otherwise don’t have them, such as your starting occ in Feast for Odin (usually we draft 3 keep 2) which gives you more agency in your game plan. I hate the 3-tile hand in Carcassonne and would argue it ruins the game for experienced players. It lets you hold onto key tiles and also you have no idea what your opponent is holding so, for example, if you’re relying on a tile and know there are two of them left and have accepted the 25% odds you won’t get it, you might wait all game just to find out your opponent was holding onto them the entire time. So at higher levels of play players would probably just hold onto the rarer valuable tiles. They use the 1-tile rule in Carc because half the battle is mitigating your luck by being able to utilize whatever tile the game throws at you.

Great list - thanks! I’m going to incorporate draw 2-pick 1 and later discard of the second objective card in several games. Nice ways to minimize players feeling shut out by bad draws.

Draw two, keep one in Viticulture works wonders! Been playing that ways for years now. And I will definitely incorporate the Wingspan/Ark Nova one.

For viticulture draw 2 keep 1 seems a bit too good when you take an action to draw from multiple piles at once. The bonus cards are a lot swingier in Wingspan though. For carcassonne I do a 2 tile hand, so it's a bit less luck-based.

Great list, Luke! Will definitely use the Wingspan one, and that Carcassonne as well :)

LOVE the houserule for Wayfarers, what you have mentioned is the biggest issue I have with the solo mode. Thanks! Also, that Viticulture houserule is perfectly applicable in many Alexander Pfister games...

Great video Luke! Very useful ideas, even if i dont play some of those games, i can use the ideas when appropriate. Its almost like a mechanism design video ;) Some comments: 1) Secret objectives at game start: - you hit the nail on the head on the problem - the Ark Nova solution (keep both until midway of game, then discard 1) seems reasonable. - Rolling Heights allows you to keep both until the game end, then simply choose 1 to score. Most reviewers have praised that design choice. - Either way can work, depending on the game. I am going to try it in Twilight Imperium 4 ( 😮 yeah i know!): You get dealt 2 Secret Objectives at game start and must keep 1, discard the other. Later you can use an action to gain another secret. Hand limit is 3 (total of scored and unscored) INSTEAD we will try: Keep both at game start, plus any more gained through the game (Hand limit of 3 still remains). But when you score your 1st secret objective, you must discard 1 as well. Should help a lot. The Rolling Heights format wouldn't work here because the secrets are scored throughout the game, not at game end.

Good ones here, need to remember to try them! 👍🏻 Catan doesn’t get very often to my table because it’s so long compared to the content. But I recently found a variant idea in BGG which I’m going to use: instead of 7 bringing a robber that limits other players resources, it just gives that resource to the player who placed it (and puts their own colour by it as a reminder). Also start with one village and one town, to get a bit faster start.

Wow! I loved that 3 tile hand rule for carcassonne! Looking forward to implement it. Thanks!

I am glad that you mentioned Viticulture. I havent played in a while due to the swingy cards.

That last rule is truly great. I shall use it now when I play Wingspan. I think it can do well in Parks as well, discarding the 2nd Year goal after the 2nd season so you can actually see what you are able to focus on.

Great video! I don't mind house rules if they make the game play smoother or more enjoyable. I borrowed your house rule for Meadow when I first heard you mention it in your review. Though slightly tweaked, I play where all 5 (or 6 with Downstream) path tiles are available to the players, but only 4 are used. The only downside I've found is the cards don't cycle as much so I may need to house rule that as well. 😆 I love Stroganov. On the furs in the market house rule you mention, I actually prefer the rule that a new fur comes out immediately. I use this intentionally when I am searching for a particular fur. I've found it doesn't add to AP enough to take away this ability.

Wingspan house rule: we’ve been doing this forever. Same reason. We also like to have six cards in the display. Adds a bit of AP but it isn’t bad.

Totally agree on the objective discard rule. Obsession has a good option for that as well as Ark Nova. We have toyed about with "when" to choose objectives in Wingspan but agree with the opening hand being a terrible time to decide.

A brilliant video - really helpful ideas I will immediately adopt!

Ohh I'd love to try Carcassonne with the 3 tile rule. Might even want to port the rules exactly from Calico - 3 tile open selections with two tiles in hand. Play one, pick one of 3, turn done.

This is a great video idea!

unique list that Ive never seen and completely agree on the carcassone 3 tile rule. im planning on implementing your wingspan and king of tokyo house rules as they make sense! in games like no thanks! and for sale, ill play with visible chips/money as all the transactions are open information anyways. generally I utilize if information is open it cant be hidden by players, unless there's compelling reasons not to. if you hide open information it can turn into a game of memorization and who's trying the hardest to memorize information.

I need to mention Nemesis as you start with two objectives and selects one as the first Alien (I mean Nemesis) appears! I love the tension of that choice as that's also your win condition.

Gloomhaven allows for open information but you must increase difficulty by 1. We always play that way! Its official!

I do occasionally house-rule when I think it helps the game. Early on, I decided to house-rule all variations of Munchkin by allowing players to opt to select a race and/or class at the start of play, which they could switch out at any time during play (when such was normally permitted) if they drew another race/class they preferred instead of the one they were currently playing. Everyone I've used it with liked the idea and thought it improved play already beginning with race and class.

Totally agree with you on house rules. I don´t usually use them, but sometimes they just make the game more enjoyable.

Hi Luke, a very unique list! Interesting as well! Gloomhaven I like more than you - but because I only play it solo, this problem doesn't apply to me anyway. Carcassonne: I love this game soo much more than the hard-gamer community! Because I always play with Abbey-tiles (to plug the fully surrounded holes), the single-tile rule pick after your turn doesn't work. (You play the Abbey OR pick a tile!) Now having the Abbey and maybe two or 3 tiles might actually work, but I haven't tried this yet. Thanks as always for your content.

King of Tokyo. When you roll 'crystals' (?) You get double. Makes the cards so much more obtainable and fun

I will have to try the bonus card house rule for Wingspan. I often house rule the starting cards and resources. Instead of discarding down to five cards and resources I like to discard down to seven. It just helps get things going. Although I find it less needed when playing with the better balanced Oceania boards.

Draw two, choose one is a very good advice, thanks man :)

I do Carcasssonne 3 tile hand as well. It might even be default in Carcassonne Star Wars? I played it so much like that I don't even know what the default is. Another one I used from your list is Sheriff of Nottingham, but we also had changed the points you get if you bluff, because we found out that risk/reward for bluffing wasn't good enough. And finally, if I had thought of your house rule for Wayfarers before, may be I would have kept it :)

Generally not a fan of house ruling and rarely felt the need, but your Sentinels house rule makes a lot of sense and I love the sound of the objective discard house rule.

We use "draw 3 keep 2" for starting gear in Valerian, and "any turn order" in Back to the Future: Dice Through Time. In Space Base, there is exactly one "attack" card in the entire game. I leave it out. In the older Pathfinder Adventure Card Game boxes, I apply a rule from the new Core set to remove the early cards in bulk, rather than one-by-one after they are encountered. Not many others that I can think of.

Agreed on Sentinels of the multiverse, makes the game much better, especially in solo I made some changes for Runebound V3 (solo-coop mode) and the main one is to make the exploration action as a cost of 1 instead of 2 ! And it makes the game much dynamic.

Castles of Burgundy: two person. Use the 4 person side so you have more choice but you still are limited to 2 person limits.

I love this bit. Also, fun fact, until your comment about Ohanami, I actually saw video of the rules wrong and used 7 Wonders type of simultaneous reveal. Just now I realized I was wrong/right about it.

Wayfarers has been sitting unplayed on the shelf for a while because of the exact reason you mentioned; we play mainly at 2 player which reaaaally makes those cards stagnant. We will have to try this change.

The 2nd edition of Sheriff of Nottingham implements this rule officially!

Great video! House ruling in fine with me. In cockroach poker, we allow a player to pass twice, then they are forced to guess. Once they guess, they get their two passes/lives back. We use tokens so we don’t forget how many guesses you have left. Forced guesses can really ramp up the tension.

In paladinns of west kingdom, the wight worker spots. I say any color work can be used.

I like a bit of the mystery in the Gloomhaven initiatives. We will say, "I'm going mid early" or "I'm going early late" but least enough mystery to live on.

Viticulture -- A sort of "Prelude" start like Terraforming Mars. Starting conditions ramp up depending on player count. Reduces game time significantly. Heat -- Can't have more than 1 of each type of Upgrade card. Imperial Assault -- Ranged enemies will stop moving toward Heroes as soon as they are in line of sight. They then fire their weapons.

I agree the mandala stones picking up stones rule was weird and made for confusing rules reading. We just say "pick a stone to start with and pick up in a circle, doesn't matter which way around" in my experience this has lead to faster turns and is far more intuitive. I could see it giving too many options for someone who APs a lot, but for how light the game is I doubt it would be aproblem

I like the Wayfarers idea. I'd probably change that influence would come off and give the player a coin. Love the Viticulture extra card draw. Will likely use that now 😁.

1. Tiny Towns. There is only one monument card per game and everyone can build it. This is instead of everyone having their own seperate secret monument card. (Otherwise the game can be very unbalanced due to the varying quality of the monument cards). In my top 10 favorite games because of this house rule. 2. IS: Empires of the North. Simultaneous play. Honor system, everyone counts their actions and everyone notes on which action they decided to sail. After, with the help of the turn order of that turn, we determine the order in which Sail actions are taken. If you would exhaust other players cards, they instead start the next round exhausted. This significantly improves the game. You no longer have to wait for your turn and everyone is just playing instead of mostly waiting. Plus, not knowing when other clans have sailed is arguably more realistic thematically. 3. Various. Kind of similar to your Gloomhaven turn order logic, any game that rules to hide information to all players but that is, in fact, known by players who have already played it, is silly. The rule that you brought forward that I will be using the most now is the objective discard house rule. Thank you for an awesome video and some great ideas 🙂

I had to go check Ohanamis rules, and it sure does have that crazy rule. Funny that I automatically played and taught the game playing simultaneously.

We houseruled Isle of cats for two players, as we play it as a 2-player game. We remove 20 green, 13 blue, 11 purple and 5 yellow cards randomly before the game, so the deck is thinner, but still stays balanced, so there is much less chance of not getting any green cards for example throughout the whole game. Sure, the setup is longer, but it is worth it. Also, at drafting, both players receive 5 cards, keep 2, pass 3, receive 3 and then draw 2 more from the deck, having 5 cards again. Then the draft proceeds as normal. This makes the game a little more secretive, so you can not know for sure what your opponent has in their hand.

Great list. I’ll be stealing at least two of these!

The one I use is for for my favourite game, Eldritch Horror. Eliminate the encounter phase and add it to the actions phase but everyone gets one more action. I found this on BGG and there are a couple other small things to make this work better but overall it makes it much better.

I think my favourite house rule for sentinels is - put the lid back on and toss it out the window 😂 Great list definitely something to think about, normally avoid house rules but cant argue with some of the points made

I love Ohanami and I never heard of your weird rule! It might be a translation thing cause I don't have the english rules. So of course simultaneous!

Frequently hearing about house rules to cycle market rows at 2p makes me appreciate Copycat's rule for it even more, and that came out in 2012. Granted, it was copied from TTA, but it also added a neat twist where 1/2/3 cards are discarded at 4/3/2 players respectively

Agree for GH/Sentinels, team play usually discusses those things anyway Agree for Ark/Wingspan, delayed discard of objectives I’ll use whenever possible also For me on Tidal Blades: Heroes of the Reef we use the extra round and delayed Monster arrival

Yeah, draw the tile at the end of you turn in Carcassonne, so easy and way better. At least the app could offer that! But I like that you only have one tile, like the single card in KingdomBuilder! ;) In both games you have to build in a way so that you are able to do a good move regardless of what you've drawn.

We house rule Catan - if, on a player's turn, you do not get a resource you get a token. You can spend the number of tokens as your public score to buy a resource card. It mitigates some of the dice role randomness and is a great catch up mechanism.

Brilliant idea for Wayfarers!!

We have a house rule for Merchants of the Dark Road to sycle Ringway Inn folks

34:28 Maybe the reason Mandala Stones insists on "clockwise" is because that reflects the way that Mandala is played (you "seed" the mandala board clockwise) and they wanted to instill its flavor in that respect.

Shadows Over Camelot: yeah the rule is tedious but it is only there to help 'hide' the traitor. Personally though: I feel the traitor doesn't need that kind of help, so just call it out and if they are so stupid to forget their own lies ("No, I don't have any 5's and then 2 turns later, plays a 5) then they deserve to get burned at the stake! :D

I like your choices, but here are some for me. Las Vegas Royale: Keep the same casinos the entire game & 1st player is the person with the most money. DC Deck builder: At the beginning of your turn, you may discard your hand, skipping your turn to trash 1 card from your hand or discard pile.

I dont like Viticulture just due to how tough the cards can be. I don’t love the draw two keep one thing though, I think an open card market would be better. Each pile has three face up cards or something. Idk.

One general house rule I have started using is to do with HOW A GAME ENDS, especially in Euro games with VP scoring after game ends (so I don't mean games like Catan, Cyclades... which have endgame conditions that outright win the game... my favourite type). Here are some of the ways Eurogames with final scoring adopt: 1) A sudden end (eg as soon as X happens, the game ends then score up) eg Villages of Valeria, DC deckbuilder - can be unsatisfying and feel unfair since players dont have the same amount of turns, as well as arbitrary (if i had an equal number of turns, I would have won, so the random 1st player selection screwed me) 2) Some games simply say "Finish the round, so each player has equal turns" ...this is fair but can still lead to "gotcha" endings when the last player triggers the end. 3) Some games prevent the "gotcha" endgame by giving each other player 1 more turn Eg Abyss - This is more satisfying, at least everyone knows its their last turn - But the player who triggered the endgame may think its unfair everyone got another turn (and thus possibly an unequal number of turns) 4) Some games tried a fair but compicated system: When game end triggers, finish the round AND play one more round. Eg Empires of the Void 2... - its certainly fair, and prevents the gotcha endgame... but it confuses many of my players (since some players will have 1-2 more turns) In my opinion, the game that best worked out the right balance is CONCORDIA: - When the game end triggers, all other players have 1 more turn - But the triggering player gets a 7VP bonus (This is ~5% of the usual winning score of around 130-150) I like it because it is: - simple - avoids unsatisfying gotcha endgames, everyone knows they have 1 last turn - the triggering player is compensated by a certain amount of VPs I will be using this house rule in games like Abyss, DC Deckbuilder etc. The only question is working out what 5% VP for each game looks like.

When teaching I used to randomly deal objective cards in games, but now I’m going to use the “Ark Nova” rule.

Even better then 1 discardpile to draw from is no discardpile to draw from in sheriff of nottingham

I don't think Wayfarers needs the house rule, part of the puzzle of that game is adjusting to the cards that are on display. I do think I will add the objective discard rule to Wingspan though, that is a really good idea.

More house rules episode please!

Arkham Horror LCG: I use a house rule, which I would have thought would be the way to play it, when I saw reviews ... and then was slightly disappointed realizing it's done in a different way. It's the use of the CHAOS BAG and CHAOS TOKENS. I do NOT put drawn tokens back until the bag is empty (in fact in order not to know exactly what the final token is, I refill the bag once there are 3 tokens left in the bag). To me, this made the game from a very good game to my #2 of all time. Without that houserule the chaos bag is no more or less than a flexible dice. You can still have a ton of good/bad luck. With my houserule, there is a high degree of equal distribution of the outcome. As a positive sideeffect it adds a tactical layer when you know that a specific token wont come before the next refill. I highly recommend this houserule to everybody, especialy the ones who dont like the game that much because of the totally random token draw every time you do a skill test. It makes the game slightly easier BUT it also prevents the game to be a potential luck feast.

Wait Ohanami isn't Simultaneous? I would say I should read the rules but always played it simultaneously.

In the game Android, I had to completely rework how scoring works because the game, which is supposed to be about solving a mystery feels more like you're framing someone for the crime rather than finding the culprit. It's mostly inversing mechanics like adding evidence to a suspect proves innocence rather than guilt, so it seems odd the designers didn't realize this.

House rules are generally fine as some games really do need it. I find it interesting when Rule Nazis kick off about house rules then when a 2nd Edition comes out the rules are tweeked to be very similar to others house rules and they dont make any sound but gush over the changes 😂 i have to laugh. Ugghhh BGG some people are so obsessed over that site and take the top scoring games as Gospel even without even owning the game or playing it and then get shirty when someone disagrees with BGG and you see comments like "You obviously don't know what your talking about seeing BGG has it at 95% therefore your so wrong". Then you find out the individuals who make those comments haven't even played the game yet the reviewer has 😂 its so comical

I will fight you on the Gloomhaven houserule. It's not just the initiative, but also the action's exact effect that needs to be "fuzzied". It's not for humor, and it's not for making stuff harder. It's there to prevent quarterbacking/alphagaming and to increase individual player agency. Gloomhaven can be played by a single person with 2-4 characters and it might not be too ridiculously difficult with a bit of experience under their belt (also the game recommends increasing difficulty if you're not playing with fuzzy information). For that fact, it can quickly spiral out of control if everyone just says their cards and a clear plan of action takes root. At that point you can all play with cards revealed and just cooperatively play all the characters, but the core of gloomhaven /is/ that there is a strong ownership and agency given to each player for their played character. Players which are more shy or not as skilled in the game will end up having less fun if they can just ask other players what to do, or have their card play supersceded by other more forceful players. Keeping information fuzzy (not fully hidden, still), allows players to retain more agency and have more fun. Also, ofc, "shenanigans ensue" situations. That's why we have choosable top/bottom actions and default actions. Sure, you can take a bit of freedom, "not too fast", "slowest mfer to ever live" or "i will attack that enemy"/"i will cc" in regards to how fuzzy you want your info to be, but it really adds to the cohesiveness of the group when you are starting to remember other player's cards and a Hanabi/TheCrew-esque thing happens where the game is more fun when the players manage to "mind link" through the fuzzy information. If anything, the worst aspects of Gloomhaven that deserve houserules relate to your second part when talking about it, loot/treasure. That's a houserule that a lot of people used, where coins gets evenly split (and individual purchases if they're like 1 gold off of a 40 gold purchase, it can be given from someone else), and treasure can be freely assigned at the end of the battle. Battlegoals and personal goals come a close second, but those are much less of a grave offender than coins/treasure. We also played with "if a character reaches level 9, you can retire it whenever you want and draw your next class", since some personal goals were just obnoxious. Card choice on level up is another one, we allowed mulliganing for the other one within like 1-2 battles or if you just ended up not using it at all and think the other one might be more useful now that you've seen further down in the tree at higher levels. For a character people play for 20-30 hours each, it sucks to be stuck at the sixth hour with a choice that'll make you dislike the character in ten hours.

I don’t love house rules typically. Even the Stonemaier “draw two keep one” can give tapestry civs that draw cards as their gimmick a huge advantage. I think those games aren’t balanced by their random card nature, and I prefer to make the best out of what I have as part of the strategy, even if it means I’m at a disadvantage. That being said, you do you!

Good idea for Wingspan

Hi Luke! I'm wondering how you would treat a household in a review if it made a bigger difference :) Personally I always use all damage cards in Tokyo Sidekick to make the two player/two-handed solo more duable. In Keltis we always take away a bonus token after receiving the bonus so it is more of a race. Was a rules mistake first though :D And for Wizard, we sometimes play that the last played Wizard gets the trick. In general, little card games often have house rules up to the point that no one knows how to play the original.

Great list. We house rule a lot of our games. One of our favourites and, incidentally, in our most played game is a little travel icon conversion in Arnak, i.e. two boots equal either a ship or a car; two ships or two cars get you a plane. Not the other way around, though. Very smooth.

Pls remind me what is your le havre house rule in regards to the loan?

I see all those Ticket to Ride boxes displayed behind you. Are you ready for Ticket to Ride Legacy By Rob Daviau?

you are the best :D

in Takenoko, i got rid of the dice. Instead, on a player turn, they choose which one of the 5 bonus actions to take. Once taken, they cover it with a proxy token and they cant take that same bonus action until all 5 actions are taken.

You said Meadow replaced Quadropolis, but then say that it’s a grind at 4 *AND* 3, so is it possible that Quadropolis is actually a better game because it doesn’t have this problem?

Totalt agree with gloomhaven houserule

Yeah, I've always played Pandemic with open hands, even thought he rules say they should be closed, but you can talk about what you have. Seems silly, so we never stuck to that one. I know that some versions even just have it be open information right in the rules, like the Legacy versions. A house rule we always used for Xia before the expansion basically fixed it, was to roll two dice when rolling for movement and taking the higher roll. Rolling a 1 for movement on your turn was just crappy and always felt bad. This way, you were more likely to have a better roll. It's sort of like rolling with advantage in D&D. ;-) Oh yeah... I think EVERYONE does those Carcassonne house rules... I know we do! 🙂 And regarding not telling people about a house rule when teaching, I disagree... I feel that you should always at least let everyone knows what the house rule is and what is from the book.

Wayfarers: isn’t the inner-most card not necessarily the one that’s “been there the longest” but actually often the most recently revealed card?

I'm going to steal the draw two bonus/goal cards, discard LATER house rule. Rolling heights also did this recently and I prefer it. And Tainted Grail - PREACH. The menhir timing rule was such garbage, we also house-ruled it, but yours is more strict than ours. We just kept ours going forever lol, otherwise, the game takes up too much time...for what? I suppose if the "survival" mechanisms were fun (gathering food, activating menhirs, etc.), I wouldn't mind... but honestly, needed to be house-ruled.

The second version of King of Tokyo already has that house rule included. Trust me: three tile hand in Carcassonne is not a good idea for experienced players.

There are games, that have an open discard pile in which you are not allowed to check the cards EVEN THOUGH by pure memory you can know 100%(!) what's on that pile. Most of those games (other than classic card games like Skat) are NOT meant to favor players who have a better memory. As a houserule I would always allow players in those games to check their open discard pile as long as it doenst increase the playtime. To me, from game design perspective that is no feature but a bug. The best recent example is Heat. According to my experience, 50% of the people who play the game for the first time roll their eyes when they hear that you arent allowed to check your discard pile....although you can know it 100% if you want/can use some additional brain power, which IMHO doenst fit to a game like this.

Thank you for this video. I'm super pro house rules and customizing/modding games to fit personal/group desires. Can't stand the contingent of hardline, authoritarian, puritanical boardgamers who appeal to the authority of the designer and rules as if they're sacrosanct and untouchable. Board games are toys, and, while it's good to have a standard ruleset reflecting the designer's intentions, folks should feel free to play with their toys in ways that maximize their fun.

Ark Nova needs that rule due to the randomness of the cards. Not all games with objectives needs that house rule.

In Carcassonne you must adjust the number of tiles to the number of players, so that any player can't get one more extra turn than the others. That basic flaw is bad design in my opinion.

For Ohanami, I have the French version and I was sure the rulebook said simultaneous. Just checked and it's the same as English! Never played that way and never will. It's a drafting game, it should be simultaneous.

Don't agree on the Carcassonne one. I only like to play Carcassonne as 2-player and that is not a problem. Also the one tile part is a central part of the game: Handling RISK.

Ark Nova totally mugging off Shipyard.

On point 10, I think the hidden information has merit in that without it, it becomes less of a game and more of a puzzle. Also if people know the numbers then it can lead to alpha gamers running the game in order to make the most optimal plays. Also on the loot issue, the 'RP' of it is that you're a band of misfits. You're kinda out for yourself, so being selfish and taking the loot is part of the game.

If you have to house rule a game it sounds like you need to get rid of it. Too many games out there to worry about making up rules.

It's been a while since I played Sheriff but I recall enjoying the fact there is two discard piles. I wish bluffing was more worth it however. It's me.. I don't play with the draw a tile at the end of your turn rule with Carcassonne. I'm a big fan of the game, but every time I tried the rule of drawing at the end, I don't think it benefited the game. Instead I found it harder to keep track of who's turn it is. A hand of 3 tiles gets rid of the social aspect of the game. You draw a tile at the start of your turn, lay it on the table for all players to see and influence placement.

Never done turn order on O-han-ami. No one cares....lol. Weird rule...agreed.

Lot's of things bother you don't they? Bit of a control freak maybe? LOL Just pulling your wire. Why limit Carcassonne to 3 tiles in your hand, why not make it 5 and call it pokercassonne. That would give you more options and make it way easier for you play. If you are playing solo then there is no such thing as house rules just do what you want. Re-roll dice, do away with Menhirs completely so you can do every side quest with no timer pushing you to complete the story. Shadows over Camelot is an old game, one of the first coop/traitor games and that "stupid" rule you so lengthily talk about at nauseum is there just to keep an alpha gamer spoiling the fun of a coop game. I have a feeling that you are that kind of guy when it comes to coop games. Cheers.