Dishonorable mention: Geeta’s Glimmora, Kingambit should’ve been her ace! Glimmora would’ve been more effective if it was the first in her party to set off its ability Toxic Debris

Also for #3, Surf actually does not hit your own Pokemon in generation 3! You can have your Swampert and Linoone just using Surf and not hit each other.

I’m gonna stand up for Katy here I’ve seen at least 5 KZfaqrs get swept by that Teddiursa due to no pre-planning and just trying to muscle their way through which a lot of “first gyms” don’t tend to do from what I can tell. Little bear is a menace

If you talk about Trace's Mega-Pidgeot, you should talk about Blue's Ace in HGSS. Yes... Blue's Ace is a Pidgeot, aka the easiest Pokémon of his team.

11:33 In gen 3 when Tate and Lisa was released surf didn’t hit your partner in double battles, that started with DPP.

Funny for the Ice types that they actually have Wulfric Mega Evolve his Abomasnow in the anime and actually crushed Ash. Then the rematch went on to have one of the best gym battles in the anime. Just me stating the case of the anime doing something way better than the games lol

Maxie's Camerupt isn't the best ace but with the theme of Team Magma it makes sense. However just because their base in Emerald is in a Volcano and they use Numel and Camerupt does NOT mean they are a Fire team. The villainous teams in Hoenn use the same type as their specified legendary. Team Magma is a Ground type team.

Tate and Liza's situation is even more dire than it first appears. You can bring a Gardevoir with Imprison to the battle and lock them out of nearly half their moveset if your Gardevoir already knows Psychic, Calm Mind, and Light Screen. At that point, even a Blaziken has basically nothing to fear from these Gym Leaders.

Ice types are late game because they live in snowy areas, and the starting area is always temperate. Similar to how volcanos are later game areas, and hence fire types generally aren’t common early.

Honestly shocked that Skyla with her Swanna was no where on the list. It is...a frankly bad Pokemon, who even if you have a Boldore who is weak to Water, it can survive a hit with Sturdy and do a lot of damage back. She also comes right after a cave full of Pokemon able to learn moves that do 4x effective damage on her ace. Her ace really should have been a Braviary or Mandibuzz. I have never once had any trouble with taking down the swan

I honestly fought Grusha as my 6th gym leader. To me I was thinking there was no way ice would be the final gym, lo and behold it was supposed to be the final gym.

Silvally is severely underrated. It's almost as strong as Mew and has a threatening Moveset, especially with its type countering your Starter.

Geeta's Glimora seriously what were they thinking making that her ace

Piplup is actually awful into Roark because his only water attack at this point is Bubble. The headbutt is genuinely threatening

Another notch against Ramos..... it's possible for you to get Amura if you chose it's fossil. And Mine one-shotted everything in the entire GYM with Refriderated Return.

Geeta's Glimmora should be on this list because it's just such a mind boggling decision to put it at the end of her team instead of the start.

As far as the opposite, I think Piers’ ace is pretty good. Yes, it’s deathly allergic to Fighting Types, but his Obstagoon has max EVs in both defenses. Now when it comes to worst aces, imo, I’d definitely say Trace. Though in my defense, he was easy in general.

Is it just me, or is Roark's cranidos actually way more of a threat than Mystic makes it out to be..? 😅 I've always had trouble with the Oreburgh gym when replaying Platinum -- and that's after fighting every trainer you can access on the way. That cranidos just outspeeds everything and flinches like a maniac.

Watching this unlisted

Geeta and Glimmora should have been on here. Easily

I think the reason why Ice-type specialists come later is that by nature, you need to be very equipped in fighting the cold. Like, it is very unlikely that someone unequipped or with poor experience dealing with the cold can survive being in very low-temp areas (in this case, Pokemon that aren't trained or strong enough can't help you much and vice versa in traversing this kind of area, if that makes sense). This is just my opinion

Fun fact in Gen 3 the move Surf doesn’t damage your ally in double battles that change was made in Gen 4

The Tate and Liza entry on this list got me down a path. How about bringing a surfer + water absorber? What Gen 3 Pokémon has water absorb? Ludicolo!!! Miror B beat Tate and Liza confirmed It’s only afterwards that I realize Ludicolo doesn’t have water absorb. Got it confused with rain dish but still.

Even in Emerald where their team added Xatu and Claydol, Tate & Liza have a lot of answers to them. Shiftry in particular is a wall for them, there's also Sableye, Cacturne Flygon, Absol all do well too.

It’s a real shame that absol appears on this list as it happens to be one of my favourite Pokémon.

You can’t talk about how easy koga is without talking about Erika or Blaine.

The ice types tend to evolve mid to late game so if there was an ice type gym, it’ll have to be either 5th or later or outright first. There’s no in between. There’s not many ice types that can evolve early enough to make the second gym hard enough unless u design new ice types that can do that.

Can confirm Roost is a move in lets go, I used it on my Dragonite

Maybe it's just having used it for Tera Raids, but I'm sad when I see Gogoat on trainer teams when they could be running Leaf Blade/Horn Leech/Bulk Up and either Leech Seed for Sap Sipper or Grassy Terrain for Grass Pelt And be super annoying \o/

Reasoning for ice being later in the game is because ice as an offensive typing is crippling early on or crippling for the trainer depending km the pokemon cause ice types don't get really good moves as much until later on. So it actually makes sense when you think about it power scale wise.

You also get a budew in the grass above jubilife before heading to roroak if you are grinding so he was set for failure regardless

To make Tate and Liza even worse: Surf didn't hit your ally in Gen 3

I actually have an Ice-type Elite Four member in the fangame I'm planning out... but I also gave Ice a massive defensive buff (resistances to Ground, Flying, Electric, and Dragon, four types that don't have many resistances) with plenty of type variety to cover Ice's weaknesses, so she's (hopefully) not going to be a pushover.

I’m still baffled with the concept of Silvally being a legendary Pokémon.

For Tate and Liza for the remakes, they should have gotten gallade and gardevoir added to their team with solrock and lunatone. Also have them both mega evolve gallade and gardevoir, now that would have been a challenge 🤪.

Roark on here is so odd He's one of the only actually semi difficult 1st gyms ever and is easily the hardest of the several 1st gym rock leaders

All the spots are Glimmora right?

your reversed gender from legends arceus has level 56 second stage starter on the final fight (after the volo fight i think)

People rag and Getta for using a Gogoat and Avalugg of all things but for me Trace will always be the worst champion in the series. He's a champion who doesn't even bother having a full moveset on any of his Pokémon. At least with Geeta they had a full moveset and some level of coverage.

7:41 I feel like Koga is a one of those "The Game was Rigged from the start" characters. Yeah he talks a huge game about poisoning and paralyzing you in to submission. But the very mechanics of the game make it so he can't because he can't stack poison and paralysis. Yes, he can stack poison and confusion, but that's not nearly as threatening as the possibility of not being able to move at all while still watching your hp drain. 15:01 Lol yeah Ramos is a joke. Most of the Kalos gyms are a joke, but Ramos is especially bad. Not to mention, that in addition to all the other possible answers already mentioned here, you could always have picked Fennekin as your starter which basically ownzoned like 80% of the gyms in this game or you could even have pre-nerf full power Talonflame with pre-nerf Galewings at this point. If there was ever a region to not have a Grass Gym Leader, Kalos was it lol.

The ice type one is actually just unfortunate circumstance. You can’t really have the player trekking through a grueling snowy environment very early in the game. Imo the challenge with ice gyms is the ordeal of getting that. I still remember the climb to Snowpoint in Gen 4.

Thank you so much for all videos you made. You are one of my absolutely best youtubers ever. :) Jsi borec. Mám moc rád tvoji tvorbu.

I suspect Gamefreak thinks the fact that Ice is so focused on offense means little kids will get beat by them easily, that's why they leave the type for near the end. Truth is, it would be better as a first or 2nd gym since at that point, there's not a lot of ways to exploit Ice weaknesses yet. Ice even plays well against starter types. Weak to fire, neutral to water, strong to grass.

For me the league in scalet/violet was poorly done also I wish Absol was a psuedo with better stats its design is awsome and Along with its entry in the pokedex sayinv disaster follows it like earthquakes etc sounds cool and that it should be a pseudo

11:20 My strat in double battles was to always use a fast flyer like Swellow, have him use fly to dodge the surf from a teammate Swampert. Easy insta-win.

Hey Mystic. You know we love the best team vídeos. So why you don't show to us which best team is the best of the best? You could do the same with the worst team

I think the reason Ice gyms get put so late is that most casual players DON'T realize that Ice has so many weaknesses. They probably just think of it being weak to Fire, not Steel, Rock and Fighting as well. And Ice is, as you should probably know, a really good OFFENSIVE type. That's why pretty much every player who uses a Water-type gives it an Ice move if they can.

I think that if Tate and Liza, just jump a gen and give them Gallade and Gardevoir. It’s perfect. A pair of twins that are male and female getting the psychic types that are gender based branched evolutions.

You should mention that with Tate and Liza in RS ORAS they effetively only know psychic moves so the fight is ultra free with two dark types

I haven’t seen the video yet, but I predict that Ramos’ Gogoat is on the list

Memory items should’ve given some % bonus to damage like plates, maybe half their %?

I’ve been subscribed for years and years now. Seeing you still be uploading like this makes me happy

Honorable mentions: Brock’s Onix, Geeta’s Glimmora, Will’s Xatu, etc.

Gogoat is very good mon

I just realized about the Ice type boss trainer situation during last week, and the forgot about it. Thank you for covering it in detail

Surprised Viola’s Vivillon ain’t on this. Not only is she the weakest 1st gym but every other 1st gym leader can take her squad & Vivillon out with their single ace easy

hey now in quick attack's defence, that move has actually saved me a bunch of times. either when heavily paralized or some other time when i had to move before my opponant pulled some bullshit again

I do agree with the Ice specialists or even mons that are only in the late game, like why? I assume because in the early gens, Ice was really the only good way to deal with dragons, and dragons being really strong. It's still the case even after gen 6, but why? you can get fairy types pretty early on in most games, and they are better than ice types...

“Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled trainers should try to win with their favorites."- Karen

11:05 Why a gym leader has never used her as a ace beats me this thing is a absolute special attacking nightmare

I'd say Falkner's precious level 9 Pidgeotto qualifies for Cyndiquil and Totodile playthroughs.

To add to Tate and Liza, iirc in Gen 3, Surf doesn't hit your partner.

The Johto ice gym can actually be faced as soon as you get your fourth badge not the fifth one you can go through the cave leading to the next route over Do the team rocket episode and then immediately have access to the ice gym leader

Should've made Silvally have 600 stats and a better movepool.

I think I speak for everyone when I say how relieved I am Joey didn’t make the list with his “Top Percentage” Ratatta.

Love the fallout easter egg “the game was rigged from the start “😊

Wulfric is actually gym 8. I mean, you are a littly harsh on Katy, considering you can get the same counters for Brassius, who isn't even on the list. Yeah, you can say: But Sudowoodo has Rock moves, countering Flying and Fire, but then again: You can get Paldean Wooper and Flamigo early on, both who are neutral against Rock type moves.

Roost was indeed a move in let's go, my zapdos knew it

yes the move Roost is in let's go

L on Silvally ._.

Fun fact: Gogoat actually has the highest base stat total of all non-mega/mythical/legendary/ultra beast/paradox Grass types! (Aka all "normal" grass types)

Chimeco, really?

Katy's Teddiursa is the worst ace? Hello, that bear nearly almost took out most of my team!

Ah yes Wulfric, the 7th gym leader 😂

Having Glimmora as a final pokemon is a worse offense than having gogoat on your team

Tell me how this was the video to tell me Sidney's ace was absol and not shiftry 😂 I swear every time I played RSE as a kid he always threw shiftry last and then I never finished ORAS to see him mega his real ace lol

This video is meant to be about the aces but you focused on their whole teams

Even in the show I don't remember Candace having a frostglass

Grusha can actually be your 7th gym. Also, technically Grusha has to late game as his Gym is in the Mountains You don't have to take on the Gyms in a standard Order in Scarlet and Violet Case in point my First gym was actually Grass not Katy's Gym

The complaint about Ice types.. you know what would have been a fun idea? If SV had level scaling.. like they advertised the ability to do gyms in any order so I went out of my way to confront Grusha early, like second gym early when my team was still weak... was sorely disappointed.. but at least I had the fly points unlocked for later lol Like legit Ice type having one of the *starters* be their weakness will always mean they are not gonna be a good show for their typing since even if you don't choose the fire starter, an average player will have that core I would think since they've been offering those types lot more Katy.. another who imo "suffered" from no scaling.. like I wanted to fight her last because the flavor text said "Trainers typically go after her first because of proximity to Mesagoza" so I was like "okay let's at least see what a late game bug type gym could be" and.. yeah obviously after Grusha I knew she wasn't gonna change.. but legit did her last out of spite lol I think I just salty they said "fight gyms in any order" without following through on what that would imply.. like if they didn't tell us that little blurb, most of us would just do what they wanted anyways, linearly fight the gyms and titans and star bases... and maybe have the info come out "hey they all are available.. but they still are at their intended order" would totally have made people be like "weird but okay whatever" Another thing that they said before release was like "do any story in any order" and saying there were 3 stories.. which implies, at least to me, that you don't *have* to beat all the Team Star bases if you don't want to.. I was tempted to ignore them and just focus on Gyms, but after my Grusha incident I realized the bases won't scale and also that.. the game is same formula of "do gyms with random fights with 'evil team' and lore between them" like all they did was split lore and team up, giving lore to Arven and making you do *another* in-between activity... Wait LET'S GO REMOVED ABILTIES?! WHAT THE FUCK?!

3:08 To make things worse, for some reason, the ace is NOT Beartic, but Cryogonal.

Camerupt be wild in Nuzlockes.

I honestly think pre-indigo disk Geeta was the worst offender. Glimmora is designed to be a hazard mon, and she throws him out last.

He said it, fast no guard mega pidgeot spamming hurricanes was such a menace i still get nightmares from the trauma it caused … not this 40 bp quick attacking ability-less champion level ”ace”

I would guess that the ice gym is usually in the latter half of the game because the icy areas (and ice mons) are often one of the last areas you get to. Not sure WHY they put the ice mons closer to the end though. would be cool to start in an ice area instead of a grassy plain area for once.

In the 9th entry, you forgot to mention the ice gym leader in SwSh…albeit you battle it kinda late like the others. And it was kinda tough.

Maxie should have a Sun team. Archie should have a Rain team. It fits them perfectly.

Yea Pokémon brilliant diamond and Pokémon let’s go minimize was annoying as hell to deal with

Keep up the great work and videos

For #9, Ice cant be in the start since it basically tells player to choose the fire type starter always. It kinda annoying how gen 2 doesnt give a chance to chikorita, and gen 4 literally made infernape the only viable option.

Bonus for roark. on top of Monferno, Piplup, Turtwig, Machop, Onix and Geodude....Psyduck is right there in the oreburgh gate. with water gun. 7 different earlygame mons that completely counter him. Even brock didn't have that.

If only Gallade exists in Emarald, surely Liza & Tate will be using Gardevoir and Gallade

Honestly I always struggled with Ramos as a kid. Maybe that's because I got Lucario too late to get invested in it for my team, and I already played FRLG so I didn't to use the Kanto starters again, but I _did_ pick Froakie and had no good grass answers on my team. In those very specific circumstances... he's harder than the Scatterbugs in the starting forest

Gogoat is actually a really good pokemon given the right moveset

A close second is Glacia’s Mega Glalie in ORAS. Doesn’t even have a Normal-type move to get the Refrigerate boost on

Lt Surge especially in Gen 1 is the biggest fraud ever

I think sylthaly has to be week because of the fact where you fight him extremely early

I freaking struggled against that grass gym leader 😂

Silvally: the poor man's Arceus

#9 *So are we going to forget Melony exists*