Now we need a top 5 most intermediate civs to play

Surprised at the lack of Malay. The age-up bonus forces you to re-learn all your build orders to make sure you're clicking up at the proper times and will have enough resources to do things once you're up.

The highest mastery ceiling actually belongs to Saracens. I believe the difficulty in seeing this fact is further evidence of it being true. The market is a very deep rabbit hole.

I think, burgundians are also hard to master, because you need to handle the eco

I really want to know at what level are Franks players blindly going elite skirms against Spanish instead of spamming 2 stable knights. 😂

im not so sure about malians at P3 on the list, i think the concept of the civilization of going aggressive with maybe a double gold comp in castle age, early ballistics and end the game there is easy understand, the tricky part comes when u cant end the game in castle age and u need to convert a gained advantage into the victory with not the finest late game options

I remember Viper saying in his latest arabia tier-list that Byzantines are really hard to play since they have no eco-bonuses and you have read your opponent incredibly well at times, orherwise you fall behind and just lose if you make the wrong counterunit. On the other hand you really kinda need to be proactive or make sth. happen, you can't just "outboom" an opponent with just a cheaper Imp as your only bonus.

The worst part of Gurjaras is not early game but late game when the opponent spams Halbs, seige and heavy cavs. All those units are countered by Gold costing units only. Chakrams can counter Halbs but one SO shot will kill them all. Shivamshi raiders are useless against Halbs when your chakrams due. Heavy cavs are countered with camels only and they die to Halbs if chakram throwers die. The most critical part is to amass chakram throwers from castle which are far away in own base thus reducing the reinforcing capability. Also the chakrams are so tiny they can't even be clicked and selected properly. The entire game revolves around chakrams for most part and they need to be buffed. Pikes can also be included. Shivamshi raiders are insanely powerful only against ranged units. In meele they melt just like any light cav. Their dodging refill rate can be reduced to compensate for chakrams buffing. Also the camel buff on frontier guards can be reduced. Ele archers though good are good for defensive only. They are slow and difficult to amass when you have so many good intensive units melting on fights. Overall with Gurjaras to be effective on offensive play 4 different unit composition are required all gold intensive whereas other civs require only 3 with one or 2 gold intensive units. The issue is complicated in team games where they have so many counters The working offensive combo is Shivamshi + chakram + camels+ Trebs/seige defensive combo Camel + Ele archers + chakram My 2 cents

Saracens and Aztecs are really hard in my opinion

Love me the Poles! I'm not good, around 750-800 ELO, but I love playing Poles and really really like the TRush into FC strat.

Good vid! Motivates me to get a bit deeper into the game and really learn about the specifics of each civ

I would really like a guide, or even just some good example games, of the Cuman 2 TC + tower build. Hera mentions it all the time, but I can't recall seeing a great example of it.

Love your streams man!

I personally think that the poles are rather easy because you have a clear game plan. Farm, wall or scouts, castle, cheap knights and boom. No strategy required on 1100 elo...

Oof Poles feels like it should be easy, but it just isn't. Even with autofarm I always feel like I'm out of space. The strat of putting folwarks next to the TC is one I need to use

Agree with the discussion about Cumans 100%. I tend to perform badly against Cuman pickers but at the same time I loose badly when I play Cumans (Around 1200 elo)

I love the poles. I pretty much only play them. I haven’t tried a tower rush yet but that sounds like a fun possibility

Getting tower rushed as the Cumans is like Christmas though. Opponent is doing exactly what you were hoping to force them into doing: investing in a Feudal age tower war...

Could you make a video about the autodrop function? Since you mentioned it in this video and earlier, I dunno what for I'd need it and never use it. What's the benefit?

I got jebaited by the Chinese honourable mention, but yeah the Gurjaras placement makes sense. Overall, I agree that awkwardness of gameplay is a better criterion for difficulty than wacky starts, and so the focus on gaps in tech tree is quite intuitive

Prediction before watching the video: Aztecs, Cumans, Chinese, Malay, Poles

I would add malay as their faster ageing up makes eco distribution way harder.

Boosting for the algorithm!

You missed the two hardest civs for me: Brngalis and Celts. They have weak Scouts, knights and Archers, making Feudal and Early Castle very hard to play

Watching!

Hi Hera, I really liked this video. can you extend the list for additional ones... I feel that we have almost 50 civs, a lot of cover. Maybe another 5

I now feel better about my loss rate as a LEL that mains Poles

Me thinking Byzantines will appear on the list; Hera: Nope

Agree with Malians. I hate playing as Malians, not because the civ is bad, but because all their options are lacking something which makes it hard to decide what to go for.

Can you make some of these vids for water maps as well, please?

2 things. Spanish are easy. FC castle conq every game. No Bulgarian mention? Name one person that has mastered them. I'll be waiting.

Well, good to know 3 of my fav mains (Spanish, Poles and Gurjaras) are on the list 😎

I feel like Yo’s play could single handedly put Spanish on this list

When is started playing aoe2 de i always picked spanish and go for fc unigue unit

No georgians? I think the mule cart takes some getting used to, plus their eco bonus isn't as straightforward as the Armenians

Okay yeah I have no idea how to play Malians. I need a FU unit to think about going into

i think Burmese should replace Malians at top 3 - if even pros have a hard time mastering a civ it's Burmese so it should go on the list 11; but top 1 and all other spots make sense to me

my thoughts on gujaras at 12-1300, they are almost broken, against cav, go camels, against archers go shrawansha, have a castle up to switch to chakram when the enemy goes pikes/halbs. be careful against monks and raid with shrawamsha as they don't die too tc fire

I think malay should definitely have been mentioned

Disagree about Poles, probably just too hard for the top players to do farms different. Poles are basically alt-Franks. Spam cavalry and have castles

No mention of saracens? It's not actually hard to play it if we ignore it doesnt have paladin, not even cavalier, but it's hard ro master it's market bonus and the advantage it can give you compared to how little you can do with it's lack of economic bonuses. Plus the fact it has almost all techs but no way to stablish map control to boom long enough to get these bonuses.

Brother, how come aztecs aren't here? They are godly only if you master Monks which is extremely hard to micro

UGH YES! I dont get how to play the freaking Gurjaras! But I really dont like playing against them because they counter EVERYTHING!

1k, no expansions player Cumans, Chinese, Celts*, Malay and Italians*. * civs that I think have a higher ceiling that we haven't worked out yet Chinese, even though I can usually nail the start I have no idea where to go with them. Their other bonuses make a big difference for other players but I can't take advantage of them.

bengalis is by far the hardest to play no arbalest no knights. such a weird civ i will never get used to it

Great stream 11

This is a list of my top 5 lowest winrate civs hahah

For Poles, if you're not putting farms under your TC, should you just drop your initial houses snug against it so you can eat your sheep faster?

I think the hardest civs to master at 1400 elo are aztecs, dravidians, bengalis, malay and burmese. aztecs used to be amazing on pro Level but to pull this of with suboptimal micro and macro is hard dravidians .... no knights. bengalis. hard to understand what to do in castle malay. hitting the timings to win with subpar units is hard burmese. I don't understand that civ at all

All i can think of AoE related right now is who else has seen the new AoM trailer. Make them watch it Hera! 😅😁

Spanish are only on the list because you have to build 3 houses at the start.

Here bc Hera told me to come here

I can agree and disagree with cumans. I picked them up around 980 elo and played them for a longgg time and I’m now a 1280 player. While the cumans were tough to get used to. It really comes down to experience to pick the right play, boom in fuedal, be aggressive in fuedal, and like hera says. In lower levels the 2 tc boom is crazy!! But to say it’s an insanely hard civ to master is a little out of pocket in my opinion

Gotta love the diversity and complexity of the greatest rts of all time

Top 5 civs to call gg

i love gurjaras. couldnt you go light cav instead of knights? :)

Gotta do it for the algo

Well over the years my top 4 civs to play were: Poles Malians Chinese Cumans 🤣🤣

GOOD GAME

I would have put Cumans higher personally. I play Gurjaras regularly, but Cumans are just too much for me.

heraDodged

i think cumans is top three. congrats 4warlords! tierra de campeones bb

Hera send me from his stream 11

Hi chat

I don't know, from experience it seems that the hardest civ to master is whatever my opponent is playing. (I am also, coincidentally, playing one of the easiest civs in the game.)

No Khmer on this list?

Poles are not hard to play. Here are some tips from me a Poles main who's got a great win rate with them. Like probably 80% Full wall early. Go slower uptime it's OK. Defensive skims if needed. Be flexible. You can go aggressive sometimes with Maa towers. Scouts. Archers. You can go 2 folwark fast imp arbalest push adding in a forward castle and obuches Don't only always go cav. Mix it up Farm around your first berry folwark but don't rush other folwarks. If you just need food and don't have the wood early, its OK to make some farms near the TC. Have them giving one way so that later when you have the wood you can plop a folwark on the other side of the farms and make them folwark farms Key issue. Don't rush the bonuses like a dumbass. Be selective and pick and choose your spots. Also don't rush the horse collar/heavy plow just because you get instant food. If you can comfortably do it then do it but sometimes you need the food for u uts and horse collar just gives you like and extra 48 food compared to not getting it for your first 8 folwark farms

w/o watching, I'm gonna say, in no particular order: Malay, Cumans, Byzantines (perhaps hon. mention), Dravidians, Gurjaras, Chinese! Edit: lol, only 2/5 11

hi chat

8:39 Its lacking WHAT?

What a great video! I especially liked the part where you listed the top 5 hardest civilizations to master | AoE2, a topic of much contention.

For me Chinese is number one

Malians aren't difficult, good wood save, many options to play, is the tier of tbe easier civis. I guess need a reference for what elo, for example is not the same a 800 elo playing with Chinese that is the hard civi to use, compare with 1600 that is good civi.

I was expecting Bengalis as number 1

1v1 me bro, ill show you spanish (with 150% handicap 11)

Wow I'm 2 in and I've mastered both civs compared to players at my level. Spanish is by far my best civ. Great insight though! I've learned a lot so far

"With in 10 games you can get your Chinese start good" ONLY with the auto-drop off, before that even after winning 100 games with them and having several years of experience with them on the ladder it was incredibly easy to mismicro the start and either loose the starting advantage or be even further behind than your opponent. It cannot be overstated how much more streamlined the start is now with auto-drop off.

Nice bloke.

teutons is also not that easy - lacking hussars and husbandry and having to compensate for lack of mobility, meaning castle placements etc. are super important!

Missing Byzantines. Harder than Hindustanis.

Tkm hera (comentario random que ayuda al algoritmo de yt dicen)

i dont think spanish and malians belong on this list

bengalis not hard to play???