Tormek T8 Sharpening - Which to buy, SG vs CBN vs Diamond?

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Great Edge Ltd

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 96

@markpennell4938 Жыл бұрын

Perfect. That was all the information I was looking for really on this topic. Thank you.

@rosevan5485 2 жыл бұрын

Love your channel. I will ask you question for sure…. Cheers from french Quebec, Canada.

@robchros Жыл бұрын

Hello: I thoroughly enjoy your videos and I was hoping you might post one regarding how to sharpen a convex edge .... Many thanks, Rob

@nikolauslant4134 2 күн бұрын

Thanks. Great movie.

@SmallGameHunter Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the very informative video!

@FearNoSteel 2 жыл бұрын

Rest In Peace Dr Vadim Kraichuk

@jds653q 2 жыл бұрын

Great video thanks!

@mdlawrenceusa Жыл бұрын

Than you. Very helpful.

@michael.knight Жыл бұрын

Side sharpening seems great for woodworking.

@johncbrownmd Жыл бұрын

Very helpful.

@rosevan5485 2 жыл бұрын

Great video . Thank you…… PS . Any advice on which gig from Tormek would you use to sharpen a filet knife of about 5-6 inches….. Victorinox knives…. I had a problem of getting the perfect angle using the 2inch holding Tormek knife jig just slightly but well held on the knife… but then when to get the perfect angle…. I went for 17 1/2 per side …. my Tormek jig was slightly touching the grinding wheel….. You have answered a previous question for me…. This is for my wife the Chef of the restaurant in Quebec , Canada….. What angle would you use ? After using the Tormek original grinding wheel I went from 220 grit to 1000 grit and then recalibrated to finish off on the very expensive Tormek Japanese wetstone 4000 grit….. Would that be a correct sequence ….. Should I hone before between using the Tormek 1000grit to 4000 grit Japanese Stone or just continue with 220 grit , then 1000 grit from original stone and then without honing going straight to my Tormek 4000 grit stone and not even honing ? Thank you for your time sir. PS . Tormek on their pamphlet of their Japanese water stone even say not to hone….. But I heard some people hone afterwards…… I am indeed a newbie with Tormek but do know how to sharpen our kitchen knives with another method .Cheers and thank-you Great Edge LTD.

@greatedgeltd 2 жыл бұрын

Good questions! Fillet knives are tricky because as you probably discovered they flex when you lift the handle, so your manual movement need to be very careful. You could try the long knife jig (SVM-140) which gives a bit more support. And the second problem is they aren’t very tall, so it’s tough to get enough protrusion from the jig as you discovered. All you can do is try to make the protrusion as much as possible - clamp only the very edge, and fully extend your jig. Sometimes you can’t get the angle you want though - you’ll be forced to do the smallest angle that doesn’t let the jig hit the stone… Usually between 18-20dps is OK. About honing, I would go from 1000 grit to the SJ to a strop and skip the leather wheel. Whether to hone or not after the SJ has different opinions, probably because the type of steel influences the result. You could use your BESS tester to figure out what works better with your knives. Thank you for these thoughtful questions.

@AlbeTurner 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for comparisons, it's very helpful. Are the CBN wheels the same diameter as the new SG?

@greatedgeltd 2 жыл бұрын

Sorry for the slow reply - they are very close - within 1mm difference when the SG stone is new

@johnhall8455 5 ай бұрын

Thank you for the information…but very little detail on the difference of each wheel regarding their cutting capabilities

@nedgearing4978 5 ай бұрын

Any suggestions on sourcing CBN wheels for the Tormek T-8 in the United States. Reputable manufacturers or suppliers?

@schleifjunkieshannsplag8635 2 жыл бұрын

well explained 👌

@markluke8447 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for sharing your experience with the T-8. I am about to purchase one and would appreciate any advise on what accessories I should include with the base unit? I can’t afford all the wheels at this time but do want to get the accessories.

@greatedgeltd Жыл бұрын

Stay tuned - I have a video covering that topic that will be released this weekend. (Essentially if I had a do-over what would I buy straight away for my T-8 and what would I wait on)…

@georgeduenas1549 2 жыл бұрын

Hello, great content. Have the T-8 with the included SG-250 and want to use CBN wheels to supplement sharpening options. I figure since the SG-250 can do 220 grit and 1000 grit to add three CBN wheels 200 or 400, 600, and 1200. The idea is to not duplicate too much as well as maximize overall use/value. Since the SG-250 can already do 220 grit finishes, would it make sense to start with the 400 grit CBN wheel?

@greatedgeltd 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching and sorry for the slow reply. I do agree that CBN400 is probably a good place to begin, although mixing between SG250 and CBN is a bit of a pain because you have to adjust for wheel diameter between each change. Personally I would tend to stick to just the SG, or just CBN. With the former, remember that you can use the grading stone to get intermediate grits too, not just the bookends of 220 and 1000. It takes a bit of experience and feel to be able to do that, but certainly possible with a bit of practice.

@scottydudley5700 2 жыл бұрын

Good comparison of wheels. I believe Knife Grinders may be out of the game (Vadim Kraichuk passed away unexpectedly in January). Not sure if they are going to continue to market their CBN wheels ( I have three and wish I had more). Ken at WoodTurnersWonders is a standup guy and have some nice non water wheels. They had initial arbor issues but seem to have addressed that anomaly. CBN rocks, but be wary of the amount of pressure applied (very light). I have used my WTW wheels with HoneRite and have had no issues.

@greatedgeltd 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, that is tragic news about Vadim K. A wonderful person and a tremendous loss to the sharpening community. So far his shop seems to still be trading, but not clear for how long.. Very good to know about WTW. I’ve not tried their wheels yet, but good to have a US source. Thank you for the info, and for tuning in.

@ricklenney5653 2 жыл бұрын

I have a WTW CBN that I run in water with no problems. The only thing I didn’t take into account is the size. I have CBN from Hanns and the WTW. WTW is 10 inch and the wheels from Hanns are 250mm. So have to adjust Hights between wheels 🤦🏻‍♂️

@greatedgeltd 2 жыл бұрын

@@ricklenney5653 Good point - when read that 10 inch on the WTW site I mentally inserted ‘approximately’, assuming it would be compatible with 250mm wheels…

@ricklenney5653 2 жыл бұрын

Yes. I didn’t think in advance as well. I bought the 200 CBN from WTW because they were not available at the time from Australia or Germany. My next CBN will be an80 most like from Hanns. Then I’ll leave out the 200 in the progression.

@PieroZanetti 2 жыл бұрын

nooo, what a bad news about Vadim :(

@macmuc3364 Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for sharing with us your experience! I forgot to ask if you some how clean cbn wheels from little metal particles, which might stick with time and make the wheel softer ?

@greatedgeltd Жыл бұрын

I haven’t done that before - but it is something I should check and study. Thank you!

@urmelausdemeis3495 Жыл бұрын

I think Hanns from Schleifjunkies did a video in this

@pattyliterati164 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the informative video. I am thinking of getting several CBN wheels, over diamond, for a Tormek wet grinder for the same reasons you mention (broader grit range, no anticorrosion additives needed). I would like to be able to get by with three wheels, 80, 400 and 1000 grit. I am mainly interested in using the wheels to make bevels on new knives and to sharpen knives. Do you think I can get away without the 160 grit? After using the CBN wheels for a while are they still holding up well? Thanks!

@greatedgeltd Жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching! No issues with the CBN wheels wearing down so far…I’m quite happy with them. Of the four grits that I have in CBN, if I were to purchase them one by one I think I would buy 160, then 80, 400 and finally the 1000. Where they really shine is at the ‘hardworking’ end. The 1000 grit is very good, but in that range you have other options, like the standard SG250, or even the leather or composite honing wheels from Tormek. I think if you jumped from 80 to 400 grit your 400 wheel would have a hard life. I’ve never tried it, so might be wrong, but that is my guess…

@pattyliterati164 Жыл бұрын

@@greatedgeltd Ok, good to know I probably need the 160 also. Is the sharpened edge from the 1000 CBN wheel as nice as an edge finished with the SG250 wheel (with SG wheel dressed to finer grit)?

@greatedgeltd Жыл бұрын

@@pattyliterati164 Yes, you can get a very good edge with the SG250 - highly comparable to the CBN1000. The only issue is having to account for the reduced stone diameter once the SG is worn down a bit. If you can afford it then I would get all the CBN grits, but of the four, 1000 grit would be the last one to buy IMHO…

@sandorandras4148 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the Great video! You have experience with all 3 types of stone’s, do the diamond and cbn wheels wear out and how many knives did you sharpen on them till you decided to change wheels?

@greatedgeltd 2 жыл бұрын

So far I would say no sign of wearing on my CBNs ( I didn’t give my Diamond wheels a very long test before selling them). What’s important is to make sure to do the hard work on the lowest grit (for me 80 + 160). In that case my 400 and 1000 grit should last a very, very long time because all they are doing is polishing the bevel. I would guess a coarse CBN could last at least as long as an SG, if not more. Thank you for tuning in!

@dandydonslife9869 4 ай бұрын

I’m thinking of buying a t-8, the black anniversary addition, any thoughts or ideas that might help?

@greatedgeltd 3 ай бұрын

Thanks for tuning in… I have a video titled ‘starting out with a Tormek’ that might help… Or let me know if you have any other questions. Cheers!

@macmuc3364 Жыл бұрын

Are cbn wheels ok with wet grinding on Tormek? Or are they only for dry grinding?

@greatedgeltd Жыл бұрын

Important point - thank you for asking! The two brands that I bought (Schliefjunkies and Knife Grinders) are compatible with wet grinding, but some other suppliers sell ones that only work dry… Worth checking before purchase…

@AOQ 2 жыл бұрын

Have you seen the CBN wheels from Wood Turners Wonders? I believe they are located in Georgia.

@greatedgeltd 2 жыл бұрын

Not tried them personally, but thanks for mentioning - good to have additional options.

@terrybodenhorn3508 2 жыл бұрын

I believe Rockler is also selling CBN wheels (Tornado) for Tormek now. But WTW is a great company to deal with - wonderful customer service.

@macmuc3364 Жыл бұрын

Another question. How agressive is 400 and 1000 cbn compared with sg-250 tormek stone 220/1000 grit? How would you compare them?

@greatedgeltd Жыл бұрын

1000 grit are quite comparable I would say.. And it does seem like the SG stone graded to ‘250’ is more aggressive than the 400 CBN… I wouldn’t use my 400CBN for reshaping any knives, only for smoothing out existing/known bevels.

@MericaMilitia76 18 күн бұрын

What do you do for dust collection using the CBN wheels since you can't use water on them.

@greatedgeltd 2 күн бұрын

Sorry for the slow reply, but these CBN wheels are suitable for wet use, so no dust collection required..

@MericaMilitia76 18 күн бұрын

What height is your stand, and how tall are you? I ask because the stand they sell is ridiculously expensive.

@greatedgeltd 2 күн бұрын

Sorry for the slow reply. I am 6 feet tall. It’s a Black and Decker workmate that I use, adapted for sharpening. I have a video about the details if you scroll back a bit in my collection.

@grantlauinger8663 2 жыл бұрын

What would be your normal grit progression with CBN? Do you still use your SG 250? If one were only to buy 2 CBN wheels, which would you recommend? Thanks!

@greatedgeltd 2 жыл бұрын

Normal routine is CBN160-400-1000, adding in the CBN80 at the start if there is damage or heavy reprofiling to do. I do still use my SG250, especially when I just have one knife to do and can set it up and just manage grits with the stone grader. Also just as a personal preference I really like the feel of the SG when sharpening, compared to CBN. . If I had to buy just two CBN I would probably go for CBN80 and 160 to cover the hardest working jobs… then the SG250 could be used to cover grits from 250 up to 1000 so with that set of three you’d have good grit coverage…. Thanks for tuning in!

@johnhall8455 4 ай бұрын

Hi, what is that attachment you have for side grinding?…Is it a Tormek product? Cheers

@greatedgeltd 3 ай бұрын

It’s not, but they now make an equivalent, the MB-102 that you could try…

@Martinrist 5 ай бұрын

Nice video! Now that Dr. Vadim is gone rip… do you know where i can get same size cbn wheels?

@greatedgeltd 5 ай бұрын

Thank you for watching and for the kind comments. There are some retailers in mainland europe (Schliefjunkies etc) if that helps. If you are based elsewhere that might not help. I am considering whether I should organise some stock for the UK…

@Martinrist 5 ай бұрын

@@greatedgeltd I think there’s a market for it, I would buy if you can make it the same size as the one i allready have! :)

@pillihp0631 2 жыл бұрын

Can you compare the quality between Knife Grinders and Schleif Junkies CBN wheels

@greatedgeltd 2 жыл бұрын

I’ve had good experiences with both. Unfortunately I don’t think KG is selling anymore since Vadim passed away, but my CBN80 from SJ has worked very well for me.

@pillihp0631 2 жыл бұрын

@@greatedgeltd I hope that someone would continue KG line of products. So much quality and research to go to waste

@greatedgeltd 2 жыл бұрын

@@pillihp0631 I really hope so too, but have heard many people placing orders on the website that end up getting refunded…

@johnkantar9788 Ай бұрын

what was the name of the German company for CBN wheels

@greatedgeltd Ай бұрын

Schliefjunkies

@johnkantar9788 Ай бұрын

@@greatedgeltd thank you

@elisseizis1142 Жыл бұрын

Γειά σας... Έχω το tormek t8 και έχω μια απορία Με ποίες από τις δύο επιλογές μπορώ να έχω καλύτερο αποτέλεσμα?? 1επιλογή: SB-250 για αφαίρεση μετάλλου. Και SJ-250 για φινίρισμα 2επιλογή: DC-250 για αφαίρεση μετάλλου. Και DE-250 για φινίρισμα Θα με βοηθήσει πολύ αν απαντήσετε σας ευχαριστώ...🙏🙏🙏🙏

@greatedgeltd Жыл бұрын

Hello! Personally I would choose the SB and SJ combination, because to go from DC to DE is a big jump in grit, and I think your DE wheel would wear out quickly. You have much more flexibility with the SB and SJ because they can always be refreshed with truing. (Also since you have the T8 you could use the leather wheel too as something between the SB and SJ, unless you are buying the T8 custom? Good luck with your sharpening and thank you for watching the video 🙏

@elisseizis1142 Жыл бұрын

@@greatedgeltd Σας ευχαριστώ πολύ για τις συμβουλές σας να είστε καλά και να έχετε ένα υπέροχο βράδυ .

@notawix8542 2 жыл бұрын

are they electroplated or resin bonded CBN ?

@greatedgeltd 2 жыл бұрын

These are electroplated. As far as I know, only Kase Knives in Switzerland has a resin-bonded one…

@thomask837 8 ай бұрын

What turned me off the diamond wheels is the fact you need to use the anti corrosive. I looked up the safety sheet to understand what it is made of. Dodecanedioic Acid. I wasn’t too impressed with the safety profile of it. I know only a small amount is used but I really don’t want to have to wear gloves or eye safety wear (against accidental splash). I will stick to stone and CBN.

@MrNicovdw 2 жыл бұрын

can i have the link of the germany dealer of the cbn wheels

@greatedgeltd 2 жыл бұрын

Here you go - Schliefjunkies schleifjunkies.de. Thanks for watching.

@MrNicovdw 2 жыл бұрын

@@greatedgeltd thanks sir

@abrahamkalichman6845 Жыл бұрын

What are the disadvantages of electroplated diamond or cbn wheels. The diamonds or cbn . Over time has to wear down, to a level where they don't perform.

@greatedgeltd Жыл бұрын

Sorry for the slow reply - yes, that is exactly right. Over time they wear down and their perceived grit rating increases. The way to help protect against that is to make sure the lowest grit wheels do the hardest work. For example don’t start with 400 grit if one needs to put a new bevel on a knife - leave that job for the 80 grit. The main disadvantage of CBN and DIamond is if they become damaged they need to be replaced, unlike the SG250 which can be reset using the truing tool (other than major damage of course)…

@abrahamkalichman6845 Жыл бұрын

@@greatedgeltd or instead of plated cbn or diamond, resin bonded wheel ,would be exactly what is needed, over the long term , for consistancy ad well as durability.

@greatedgeltd Жыл бұрын

@@abrahamkalichman6845 Exactly right. There are starting to be resin-bonded models available… In theory they would be ‘lifetime’ wheels, other than in the case of extremely heavy use….

@abrahamkalichman6845 Жыл бұрын

@@greatedgeltd I may be correct/ unfortunately. The majority of these wheels are for the Tormek system/ which is a semi Professional tool system, where the pupose of this tool is convenient at a reasonable price point/ When you discuss the resin bonded wheels. You are at the begining of a totally new stratospheric entry level price point/ Only top professional level users would be aprreciative of these resim bonded wheels. / Different cast of characters/

@abrahamkalichman6845 Жыл бұрын

There is another issue related to resin bonded wheels. The fact that tormek machines rotate at 90 rpm. Rotational or velocity of resin bonded wheels are rated at much higher speeds, to be at their highest degree of effectiveness.

@macmuc3364 Жыл бұрын

Could you please share if there is a braking-in period for cbn and if they retain their initial sharpening force for a long time? With sg stones it's possible to refresh them with a tt50 tool to always have the stone take material well. How is the situation with sbn? Thank you very much for you advices and experience.

@greatedgeltd Жыл бұрын

I didn’t notice a breaking in period other than the very first sharpening was a bit rough and aggressive. I have had my CBN wheels for nearly 3 years now in a professional sharpening workshop and they don’t show signs of needing to be replaced, but I also do think they have lost a bit of bite compared to when brand new. But I am very careful to make sure my lowest grits (80 and 160) do most of the hard work, so I think only those two are likely to need replacing, at least in the foreseeable future. For now I plan to keep using them. I do really (really!) like the ability of the SG to be refreshed with the truing tool as you say… It gives you some flexibility in case of damage too. (If CBN wheels get damaged, they need to go in the bin, whereas the SG can usually be saved)…

@HrWisch 9 ай бұрын

Just a little side note, the 'ei' sound in Schleifjunkies is pronounced like the vowel (or diphthong) in knife.

@greatedgeltd 9 ай бұрын

Thanks very much - important to get that right so I really appreciate the clarification. My mispronounciation comes from the fact that when I write the name I misspell it often with ‘ie’…

@HrWisch 9 ай бұрын

@@greatedgeltd The German 'ei" is a diphtong which is pronounced like the one in 'knife' or 'like'. The German 'ie' is the long variant if the 'i' sound and is pronounced like "see' (the short 'i' is pronounced like in 'kid'). It's pretty common for non native speakers to mix those two up, especially for an English native speaker as English pronounciation is not directly connected to the spelling. German pronounciation is not overly complicated due to the fact that it's mostly pronounced they way it is written (except for loan words). Once you know the main sounds, it's not that hard.