You’re right - it’s the perfect distance for such a service. Will it happen?

@@PlanetPatrick fingers crossed. Doesn't have to be true high-speed rail. But surely we can improve speed (by at least 1 hour), and frequency (at least hourly, if not half-hourly).

insane isnt. nation's capital and international gateway to australia not linked together. flights are always delayed by fog, this route would be so popular not only with business folk but tourists as well. at least the journey will be more comfortable when the new regional trains arrive.

@@Roadrunnerz45 more comfortable, yes. That's something at least. Every improvement counts. Embarrassing that the route is so poorly serviced though.

@@PlanetPatrick My guess is that 80 years from now, commuters (who haven't even been born yet) will be asking the same question.

Of course, you have to allow for the time to get to the airport, hanging around and the risk of delays. That's reasonable to include in a comparison.

Yep “45 minutes” turns into 3.5 hours very easily

Yes , all that and the wait for your luggage to appear on the carrousel , wait for bus / train/ taxi/ Uber and the expense of them, or the walk to the car park and the parking fees...

That’s very kind of you, thanks, David.

Yes that really helps.

My son does the same from Queanbeyan. He did drive but got fed up driving on his own.

Yes, it may be slower than the alternatives, but it's a very relaxing way to travel (do bring your own snacks though!).

And not just that, getting to central gives you all the Sydney public transport at your disposal. If arriving by air, you pay the $16:50 platform tax just to get on the train.

Well, less stress for this passenger, if not everyone.

That's fascinating!

@@PlanetPatrickKingston isn’t the 1920’s terminus The line traveled a cross the Molongalo River to Lansdale St in Civic, that part of the line was terminated after the the abridge was damage in a flood & the Federal Government chose not to build a rail bridge back over Lake Burley Griffin

Next problem, of course is what other route could it take? Gradients aren't a problem for Very Fast Trains running on electrified lines, but curvature is, so the existing route isn't an option. A new line from Canberra to Yass has been suggested, but then travellers to Sydney face the notoriously difficult section between Yass and Goulburn. And we still have to try and speed up that long descent from Goulburn to Sydney. There also seems to be a lot of confusion in this country about what a Very Fast Line actually is for and how it works. For example, it's often suggested that a Melbourne-Sydney VFT will encourage commuters from country towns, when the whole point of VFTs is that they don't keep stopping.

And then there was the "pioneer" line from Cooma to Bombala, the only railway in the country, I believe, where a train has got stuck in snow drifts. Bits of the line, embankments and trestles, can still be seen from the highway.

The talk and study groups have cost 1 billion AUD over the last 40 years.. your money stolen by sophisticated criminal gangs in your government..

Fingers crossed - that’s one I’d come back to take!

That will be so much better

Have the new CAF trains started to arrive, already years late and millions over budget?

@@andrewclarke6899 First few cars made it to Dubbo some months back. Still someway off entering service.

@@mark123655 Thanks, Mark

​@@PlanetPatrickthe CAF seats are much worse and doesn't have any sleeping cars for the 11 hour train journey to Melbourne. The speed will be virtually the same as these trains are limited by the tracks rather than the rolling stock

I take it constructively,. I've been A/B testing thumbnails. All the best!

I’m very glad you shared such an interesting memory

Oh wow! I've heard a surprising amount of stories about delays. Yours sounds pretty extreme!

(a) that was 50 years ago (b) even then they would not have held up a train for several hours unless there was an emergency.

Yes, I think that’s right - this was by far the slowest way to get to Sydney where in the UK or Germany, the train is (mostly) the fastest method over 1-2 hour routes.

European intercity lines were built with gentle gradients and sweeping curves from the beginning, and usually double track. Australian railway lines were of necessity built on the cheap as single track, with winding reverse curves and steep gradients. Furthermore, as already mentioned, the line from Canberra is a branch line of a branch line, which has to wind its way along the Molonglo Gorge. Rebuilding the line would cost a fortune, which could never be justified by traffic potential, in the face of air and road coach competition.

@@andrewclarke6899 I know all of that (as do most people here). It does not mean that the service should be much better.

What’s the hurry

@@timothy6283 In the example I gave, I was looking forward to the weekend with my wife and our son.

Good to hear your experience (the scenery during the day is a real plus)

Well, that's quite the story to be able to share! And yes, it's a lovely trip - I saw some kangaroos (but didn't manage to have the camera on at the right time) and just enjoyed them and the landscape instead. Sorry about your grandpa :(

I think I do recall the building going on - oh, that's great news and will make Central more accessible.

It's crazy when a coach service is faster than the train! I get the technical reasons why this is such a slow service, for sure, but if it were more frequent and faster (and better situated), I'm sure there are the volumes of people going either direction that would make use of the train service. Good to have your experience and insight - thanks for commenting!

I agree with you, re: connectivity. I've not had the chance to try the Velocity trains in Vic. Appreciate your comment about the music!

You can. Normally starts with a bus to Yass Junction. We do the trip a lot as our grandchildren are in Melbourne: 9:15 am to 6:30pm trip.

You can but its like catching a train from wollongong to newcastle but instead of central you can use goulburn

You have to be utterly joking. The Velocity’s are one of the most stupid long distance regional trains I have the unfortunate need to use. They are basically a tricked up suburban commuter train with rubbish seating crammed in and close together. Few have tray tables and no power sockets. And there idea to expand capacity due to over crowding was to remove toilets. Gunzels wet their pants over them because they have streamlined fronts. In every other case they are a step backwards. And running them in 3 car sets so you have 2 separate trains if joined together - so if the buffet is in one section the other 50% of the train can’t get to it - wtf?

I have to say the staff from the driver to the Cafe Steward were all very friendly and professional - sounds like a good traineeship.

Nice. I always wanted to drive a train

@@princephilip-v5t go ahead and apply, I didn’t have much experience at all!

@@chief8886 thanks Chief, but alas I’m too old and eyesight no good. I hope you enjoy and get to drive some good ones. A great thing to do

@@princephilip-v5t we’ve got two people over 50 in our class 😉 good luck to you mate and thanks for the good wishes

Yes, I took this journey in 2023 and it was really busy! Sounds like the bus is a good option.

Ooh, that's an early start!!

@@nicolegardner7325 The northbound train arrives at about 4.30 am. The official excuse is that a more civilised arrival time would interfere with freight paths. I think the real reason is that they want to discourage people from using the train so that they can discontinue the service.

I get the XPT from mid North Coast NSW to Sydney and return twice a year. Nine hours train vs. six hours drive. I love it . I read , snooze , chat , gaze out the window , eat , and we're there. Both down trip and return leave 7 am which is great for daytime travel. At rural home I'm in the car all the bloody car all the time. Love catching buses , trains, ferries in Sydney and not driving in horrendous traffic and looking for parking and paying heaps for it.

I love train travel so it’s a no brainer for me. But this route seems to be a bug bear for lots of people who would love a very reliable commutable fast train service.

Thanks for the comment and sub

Unfortunately it's an efficiency game. Build for 3years and then do nothing for 30 isn't everyone sensible.

Newcastle NSW was a very big manufacturing city. With Dockyards, railway workshops and BHP. Employing thousands of workers and apprentices. Today Newcastle is high rises and cafe's. Good luck trying to source Trades people for new contracts. Successive Governments have destroyed T.A.F.E's and manufacturing jobs. History now shows purchasing foreign made infrastructure is very expensive in the long run. Politicians only see the upfront cost not ongoing maintenance.

@@clydesimpson1462 I live in Newcastle. TAFE campuses in Hamilton and Islington used to overflow with students but a decision to allow pretty much anyone to call themselves an RTO and the withdrawal of pretty much all TAFE funding has destroyed both campuses. They're like ghost cities. At least UGL Rail (Goninan United) has held on in Broadmeadow still pumping out locos.

As the Boss of Goninan said recently it's all very well being awarded a Government contract but where do I get the workers from. This all happened because successive Governments purchased foreign made rail to save a few dollars, and what a failure that has been.

8 hours is a long train journey (but I recognise the size of your country!). Thanks for sharing about your regular trip.

@@PlanetPatrick Eight hours is not a long journey. How long was your flight from Pomgolia ? And you can freely move around on a train. Indian Pacific Sydney to Perth a couple of days and nights is a long train journey. I wrote above it's nine hours by train from my home to Sydney and I love it.

I sat beside someone who had a similar benefit from being a pensioner. Of course you should use the service in your example!

Much the same , $40 return from Coffs Harbour. NSW Trains make a huge annual loss the government has to carry, but it spends a lot more on Motorways and football stadiums which are also subsidies to the people who benefit in those cases.

I do too!

Well, there were sausage rolls, so better than nothing!! But yes, that's a good question, why do (almost none of) these services have decent food? The only one that really had/has is Virgin Trains in the UK, but no use to you in Canberra (or me wherever I am in the world).

I thought it was a nice city (just a short visit but I enjoyed it)

Absolutely!

I appreciate your comment - thanks!

The driver told me the day before they’d been delayed an hour or maybe more by fires in the suburbs of Sydney. My short delay wasn’t much problem, I guess!

No not really. How many are living in the CBD? So if you had to get from your home in Sydney or Canberra to the station, then train, then to your destination at the other end the time may be comparable if not longer. For example it takes me an hour to get to the airport. It takes me an hour to get to the CBd by another train. So 1+4 = 5 or 1+ 1 (get to airport early) + 40 mins = 2.40. Leave it to your to work out.

@@xr6lad A lot of people travel to Sydney CBD for business or recreation. Granted the time evens out if you are going elsewhere in greater Sydney and if you are heading to the Kogara area then air travel would be a lot quicker.

The timings have led to quite the debate in the comments. But it's a point well made, depending on where you're coming from/going to, the door to door timings might be closer than expected.

I'm a big fan of train travel for exactly this reason.

That’s a fair point

Yes, of course, that's sensible - the waiting around does multiply the time spent on taking a flight.

Now that would make a lot of sense!

Yes, that's very fair to draw attention to.

Next time I’ll take the bus as a good comparison. Thanks for your comment.

Sounds like that was a good deal!

I'm pretty certain there was a storage area for luggage at the end of the carriage. I was only in the first class end (which I think is what you mean) and nobody showed any interest in the weight of my luggage. I certainly didn't ask anyone's opinion at the station!!

Thank you

Exactly!

That would definitely put me off Greyhound!!

You should've reported the driver for endangering his passengers' lives. I drove buses in Sydney Eastern Suburbs for five years with 50 to 100 passengers depending on bus size and was always aware I was responsible for them.

@@desfletch I still have the video ,I might upload it one-day!

I’m a big fan of bullet trains and the high speed European services. Do you think there would be the numbers to warrant the service in Australia, or if they built it, it would create the desire to use trains more?

It's just a reality of the demographics. Population density is not high enough to warrant high speed trains. The costs would be astronomical with not enough tax dollars to go around and fund it. Maybe if this country taxed our resources fairly we could buy such things instead of making billionaire mining magnates.

And how much would it cost and who would pay it ? Australians already want better services while paying less tax.

Glad you enjoyed it - Wagga's on the list for next visit!

That’s 💯 right. I got talking to the train driver before we left Canberra and there had been a couple hour delay the day before. I was lucky to avoid that!

That’s a great price - I didn’t know that! Thanks

That's some fascinating history on the route! The day before I travelled, fires had caused a similar long delay (unavoidably) but I imagine it was pretty uncomfortable for passengers.

Good to know that, thanks!

I think that's a nice direct answer to the question. Thank you.

As an Irishman, I thought it sensible to avoid all footage of Joint Command :) But yes, I agree with you that any sensibly scheduled and reliable commuter service simply gets used (we have an issue in Ireland/N Ireland with scheduling our main intercity services, so that's on my mind). Is there the imperative for politicians to take any real action, beyond the change in rolling stock?

Absolutely agree.

She’s quite right!

Hopefully in time there'll be better, more comfortable carriages.

Bus travel in australia is the worst.

Oh wow 👀

An excellent reason!

I think that's a pretty strong argument

Yes, I'm afraid underinvestment is likely a big chunk of the problem and as we say in Ireland, if I was going to Galway, I wouldn't start from here.

I take that point. I was advised by a Canberra local who doesn't drive :)

Oh that I didn’t know! Good to have that facility

@@PlanetPatrick slow tho would take 9hrs

That is correct. It’s changed in future videos.

I think that's 100% right

Yes, we seem to ignore all the hanging around at airports in our time calculations!

@@PlanetPatrick so drive by car is faster, more convenient and more reliable. 3H from point to point, not from station to station and only by schedule.

No not really. How many are living in the CBD? So if you had to get from your home in Sydney or Canberra to the station, then train, then to your destination at the other end the time may be comparable if not longer. For example it takes me an hour to get to the airport. It takes me an hour to get to the CBd by another train. So 1+4 = 5 (train) or 1+ 1 (get to airport early) + 40 mins (flight) = 2.40. Leave it to your to work out.

@@xr6lad the point was that in 3 hour from home I will reach the final destination in Canberra by car, without any linkage to schedules, flights, search for local transport and so on. Train, of course, is even worse. what is especially funny - even private (small cessna etc) plane loses to car. I flied to Canberra recently as training... about an hour to get to Camden, preparation-checks-lodge plan-other mess 45 min, 1h clear flight time, ok, in almost 3h from home we landed there, so whut? if it would be transport flight, not training, it required another 30-45min from airfield to destination. Car is much faster and 10 times cheaper.

Yes that’s right

Good to know - thanks!

Yes, I think you're right. I sat beside a pensioner who may have said a regular seat was free for him, but possibly that he could pay a small amount to upgrade to first class.

@@PlanetPatrick NSW pensioners can get some free tickets in addition to the 50% off fare. In addition there is a country pensioner excursion ticket where you can book to go anywhere in NSW outside/ not through the greater Sydney area for A$2.50. ACT seniors get 50% off and can use the country excursion ticket. There is a daily max of $2.50 for travel on Sydney trains and buses on the Opal system for concession holders.

That’s the one great thing, you have room to get out your notes or device and get some work done in between the views.

I did see kangaroos! But failed to film them - oh well, sometimes nice just to look out the window at that time of the morning!

The station is where it is because a flood destroyed the rail bridge from Kingston to Reid over what was then the Molongolo River (now the lake). The reservation is mostly intact (aside from the casino anyway) to reinstate the rail station in Garema Place. It'll never happen, but it's a quirk on maps to this day.

@@PCLoadLetter As long as the station is in its current location few people will use the train to Sydney. You would think that the need to reduce emissions would cause them to extend the line and create a new station near where people are more likely to use it.

@@artistjoh Easier to build a nice destination around the current station than extend the line somewhere else. Kingston won't be recognisable in 10-20 years.

@@PCLoadLetter So you are suggesting the things that people come to Canberra for, art gallery, library, science museum, war memorial, are all going to move near the current station? No, I didn't think so. They could build a shopping center and apartment buildings there, but that is not going to bring more rail traffic. I have used the rail more than once from Sydney and I would not recommend it to anyone. It definitely needs to extend to be near the things that bring people to Canberra. To be perfectly honest, if it wasn't for large exhibitions I would never have visited Canberra. It is probably the worst city to go to in Australia if you are not in a car. The city design is worse than abyssmal, and is the living embodiment of why planned cities all over the world are almost always the worst kind of cities. Canberra compounds the problems by having absolutely terrible public transport. The location of the railway station is a prime example of the problem with Canberra public transport. Some city planner has plonked it there because design rules suggest it is best there, but with zero consideration of the needs of rail users. Someone probably got an award for locating it there, and nobody has noticed that it is a big part of the reason rail passenger numbers are low. And once you arrive at the station, the bus services take circuitous rooutes around a shopping center, and suburban streets before eventually getting to the places that visitors want to go. It needs to extend with a station at Parkes (library, art gallery, portrait gallery, Parliament House) cross the lake into the city center (which services ANU as well) looping around for a station near the war memorial and continuing to the airport, giving air arrivals access to attractions, city center, and Parliament House. That sort of extension is worth while for locals as well as provides reason for Sydney residents to leave the car at home and use rail. Canberra has some great attractions, but the city design is not one of them. It just makes it hard for visitors by making everything too spread out, and is 100% designed for the car.

Loads of helpful comments here with explanations of that (and hopes for the current situation to improve in the future)

Fair comments and thanks for taking the time.

I take that point for sure. I was glad to arrive!

I find this super interesting! Thanks for letting us know this background to the current service.

Maybe some day…

That’s an excellent point!

Is that also an NSW service? It's not one I've taken.

@@PlanetPatrick I’m not sure. I only took the train at the time because I had an ear issue and couldn’t fly. That was my first and last time using the train.

Thanks - I’ll check it out!

@@PlanetPatrick Correction, parts of it are, mostly when you are speaking, the other parts where you just play music are left/right.

Honestly, I'm a big fan of taking trains, especially (as others pointed out) if you start to add in the time waiting around at the airport... but for practical purposes, for most a flight will be easier on this route.

Maybe change will come in the future and make it a more viable service?

@@PlanetPatrick unlikely. Too much politics involved. I use the train a few times each year to commute to/from Southern Highlands and also to go into Campbelltown. But most of the time, I just get the Murrays or Greyhound bus into Sydney Central

Yes, that's a real shame.

😝🧏

That seems a pretty balanced argument - and enlightening for this visiting Irishman.

It was a friend in Canberra told me that and he’s finally relented that it takes longer!

If you do it in two half hours it won't be cheap when you include the speeding tickets. Actually you would be lucky to hold onto your licence.

Read about 50% of the other posts

@@PlanetPatrick from Albury to canberra it would take three an a half hours from canberra to central it be another three hours a total of six hours not too bad

Interested to get your comment and see what others think too.

Good to have your view!

Yes I loved the scenery for sure - I saw parts of the country that I’d never get to see as a visitor.

Not sure what point you’re making but thanks for stopping by 🤓

It’s really been the trend in other bigger economies but perhaps hope over experience given your knowledge of it?

🐓

Interesting jingoism

✂️

Definitely not!

Sore arses all round.

Maybe I’m used to noisy trains!

Oh, was there a Pom in a video you watched? Not in mine.

No different really.

Who are you speaking to?