Yeah the comment on it not being a choice is absolutely true. I myself am trans and many of my friends are, I don't think a single one of us would choose this, constant dysphoria, constant disrespect, constant threats, it's not fun. The only saving grace is having a (mostly) nice community and the fact it kinda forces you to think critically of the world when most of it hates you.

This video brought all the trolls to the yard.

I like the idea of perceived-sex segregation in sports, but only if we further divide them into separate leagues and categories that account for other factors. Everyone playing a sport should be the same sex, same age, same height, same weight, same fat-muscle ratio, same race, same eye color, and same economic background. Or, maybe the idea of sports segregation is dumb because it’ll never really be fair.

I like the phrase, “speaking with, not for.” It’s a good summary of what I try to do when discussing issues like this regarding a community I’m not personally a part of.

NEPy's argument on why he can ignore actual science when he uses his personal incredulity to deny science: "I know water is wet." That's it. That is why he can deny science.🤦‍♂️

Because NO Christian on these comments even understand moral systems enough to actually articulate HOW their moral systems work, here are some moral systems that depend on some god, and the issues with them. I'll keep posting this until a theist can actually respond intelligently. 1. Divine Command Theory: Actions are morally right if they are commanded by God and morally wrong if they are forbidden by God. In other words, morality is ultimately determined by God's will or commands. Contrary to what some atheists say, this isn't really "subjective" because it still is a moral system that's stance-independent of the human agent. The PROBLEM: There's NO way to determine what is moral and what is just being commanded as moral. A person attempting to kill their son because god commanded them can't be distinguished from someone hearing voices or lying about having heard voices. 2. Natural Law Theory: SOME versions of Natural Law Theory rely explicitly on the existence of a god, not all. For those that do, they claim that the natural moral order is established by God, and morality is derived from the rational understanding of this NATURAL order. The PROBLEM: There is NO need for that extra, unprovable step to say that a god established that natural moral order. Also this causes the problem of deriving an ought from an is (at least for those who understand what this means). Just because it's "natural" doesn't mean it ought to be moral. 3. Divine Nature Theory: Moral values are grounded in the nature of God. God's nature is the standard of goodness, and moral truths are derived from understanding the attributes and characteristics of God. The PROBLEM: This is strictly dependent on some person's claims about what is god's nature. One person can say that god doesn't permit gays to marry. Some other Christian can say that god is OK with gay marriage. 4. Theological Voluntarism: This theory suggests that moral obligations arise from God's will, rather than from God's nature. In other words, morality is determined by what God commands, rather than by God's inherent nature. The PROBLEM: The same problem as above. It's strictly dependent on someone's claim that it's god's will. So I've done the work of the philosophically illiterate Christians on here. They can't even do this, because they have NO idea what they are talking about when they claim that they have objective morality. This is due to at least two reasons. One is that you can't have a moral system that's based on some entity that you don't have some objective access to. And two, you can't have an objective moral system based on a fictional character.

Anyone find it telling that the biggest outcry (whining) is always about trans women in sports, and never about trans men? They do exist. Why no mass hysteria over trans men in sports allegedly having an unfair _Disadvantage_ , and ostensibly giving the opposing team an unfair _Advantage_ ? Why only target trans women? Gee, I wonder why?

There's a lot of claims about strength etc going on without substance to back it up. Are you trying to claim the mean strength of biological human males is higher than that of biological human females? How much by? Which sports is that not only important but significant for? And what about intersex strength? Ditto for anything else being claimed as an advantage for only males despite surgery and hormones that alters their physiology. We need metrics and statistics for each sport. Otherwise complete segregation seems arbitrary and traditional rather than logical and scientific.

How is that related to AXP and atheism ? I take the extra video, but like this is completely offtopic

You added 'without hormone therapy' Serena NEVER said that AT ALL

As a straight cis male I've been up against women in fencing & my ex gf & I had lots of fun sparring with each other & as hard as I'd try she would win easily 80%+ of the time

It should just be a case by case situation that no blanket 'fix' will work for

Sooo, Nepy's now claiming to have sponsors for his "research". I honestly don't know where to start with that. Can I at least nominate him for the Big Fat Lie of the Year award? 🏆

The fact that you don't hear about trans men in mens sports speaks volumes....

What’s everyone’s take on desegregating sports and just having some variation of tiers?

Sports is a problem, because we gender discriminate them. In boxing, for example, we sub-categorise boxers as "heavyweight", "featherweight", etc. based on their weight - an indirect measure of their muscle mass, essentially. And the simple notion is that sports shouldn't be divided by gender, but by a similar sport-appropriate measure. So, for example, if you run the 100 metres with an average / qualifying time of less than 10 seconds, you're in the elite category. If your averages / qualifying times are less than 12 seconds, then you're in the next category. And so forth. And we ignore gender. If there's a man, woman or transgender athlete that can post a 9.something second 100 metre sprint, they're in the Olympic final. End of. Nothing else comes into it - just whether you are capable of attaining such a speed and giving your fellow competitors a fair run for their money. That's all that's taken into consideration. Now, in practice, as biological males tend to have greater muscles mass, then for sports where that matters - in many sports, it doesn't and why would you divide, for example, shooting or Pool by gender, when it's about precision with a tool or object, not their own physical strength anyway? - you come up with an appropriate measure to categorise... and then remove gender qualifications completely. What we need to ensure is that the sport has fair competition. So let's focus on that directly, not use gender as an imprecise proxy for it (and, in some sports, it's even an illogical measure - what relevance would gender have to, say, playing pool or curling or Chess?). We should just have, for every sport, an appropriate categorisation - like with the weights in boxing - that ensures we have roughly equal competitors competing with each other. And then we ignore everything else that's not relevant, such as gender. After all, logically, if biological sex does matter in a particular sport, such categorisation would result in roughly the same divisions anyway, right? If men are physically stronger and run faster and so forth, the exact same men will be found in the 100m Olympic final. And when you step down to the "less than 12 seconds average" category, you'll find the fastest elite women sprinters (Flo-Jo was at the cusp of posting a sub-10-second world record). Like, if you're right that, in a particular sport, muscle mass contributes and, therefore, biological males have the physical advantage then dividing by average outcomes, not gender, would logically result in the same line up at the Olympic finals, right? But with the difference that any woman who manages to post an average of 9.something seconds is capable of entering that category and sprinting against the men... and why not? If a woman could potentially beat the men in the men's 100m final, then she should be there. And, in lower categories, we'd have men and women competing - even in sports where physical size matters, there is overlap to be found where the elite women are, in fact, posting equal times to the less-than-elite men, such as Flo Jo against some of the "less than 12 seconds" men, where she'd beat some of them. And competitors would be ranked by their results - their raw ability in that sport - not by their gender or genitalia or other not-relevant attributes. The problem in not transgender people in sports. Not really. The problem is gender discrimination in sports - and transgender athletes are just exposing and confounding what was probably always the wrong measure anyway. If we didn't divide by gender - but divided by ability, based on average / qualifying times or heights or whatever appropriate metric - then your gender wouldn't matter, only your sporting achievement and prowess. In a sense, for me, this topic just exposes something that didn't make sense in the first place, which we should have stopped doing anyway. Like, let's say that Usain Bolt decides to transition. She wants to be known as a woman now. Right, so we take the former fastest man - fastest human being - in the world, and then force her to run in the women's 100 metre finals? Hermaphrodites exist - so which category do they compete in? Flo Jo posted 10.something second times (just on the cusp of going sub-10-seconds). She absolutely can crush the overwhelming majority of men to that finish line, except for the very top tier of male sprinters. Why should she be "ghettoised" to only compete against women? It should be tiered by qualifying times, and she'd have been in the 2nd or 3rd tier, out-racing 2nd or 3rd tier males (because, remember, the tiers are determined by your average times and qualifying runs so, by definition, you're in a roughly equal category to your fellow competitors). The problem is not transgenderism. The problem is that we use gender discrimination in sports, as a crude "proxy" for determining sporting achievement / prowess for fair competition - yet this already has its problems, even before transgenderism is brought into the equation. If a woman could post a sprint time that rivals Usain Bolt's, then why shouldn't she be running directly against him? Boxing actually makes the weight distinctions, so you can reasonably have a featherweight champion and, no, we're not putting them in the same ring as the heavyweights. Find the appropriate metric for any particular sport - such as weight, such as qualifying times, etc. - and then divide competitors by that metric. If a woman or man can post a 10-12 second sprint time, then put them all in the same category, and this would be a fair division, by definition, as we're dividing by performance. They will all finish the sprint in 10-12 seconds (-ish), because that's how the division is determined in the first place.

I think this is one of those videos where we need to have our reporting fingers ready, especially when Ricky Lamebot gets here 👇

Basketball should have height divisions.

I think all sports should have one "open" competition in which *everyone* can compete, and on top of that governing bodies should be free to start additional competitions with entry requirements. Depending on the sport, that could be sex, gender, weight, age, handicaps, level, or whatever. Athletes should then be free to join or not join any of those competitions that they qualify for (and that will always include at least the open competition). BTW, Jim's "men will not compete in a women's competition just to win a gold medal" is very naive, imho. That will hold for the vast majority of men, but the tiniest minority will already screw it up.

The irony is amazing. These guys understand how harmful some religions are yet still understand that people join them willingly. But no, no one would ever choose to adopt another gender and live that difficult life

I'm gonna say this: arbitrary categories are silly, like age or gender or even disabilities. Specially in those sports where you have a very easily measurable unit of measurement, like the height or length of jumps and throws, the time in a run and a swim, or gymnastics

Just google what is happening in professional disc golf. It's extremely polarizing.

perhaps allow delay therapies for the young people who demand it? there has also been a woman who beat bolts record less than a year after giving birth. people are hugely different.

How is this related to Theism / Atheism? Is this "Atheism+"?

These two are the last hosts to know anything about athletics

Although this idea would be dificult to enact, would it not make sense to just apply the wrestling rule to all sports? Take the best people of each weight class, strength class, or whatever method of grading you want to do and get rid of women/mens sports all together? there is already so much variation, the weakest men in mens sports are nowhere near as strong as the strongest women and there is definitely some, if not alot of overlap? Why get rid of this outdated idea and just put people against all the other people who can give them real competition?

separate sports by sex

Everyone competes in the same league!! Equality!! 😂😂😂

This world is changing

And this has what to do with atheism?

All sports should be based on weight category and concentration of testosterone. Bam, problem solved

Youse are talking bollocks..pun intended.

There are cis-women who have the genetic advantage over cis-men.. Proving hat genes Vs. genes are issue. Not Trans vs Cis

Thomas's swimming career at UPenn in 2022, her rank had moved from 65th on the men's team to 1st on the women's team in the 500-yard freestyle, and 554th on the men's team to fifth on the women's team in the 200-yard freestyle. Maybe check your facts before making false claims. And why do we care? Seriously? 🤨 Well, why shouldn't adults be able to compete in children's competitions then? Like why should anyone care. 🤷🏼‍♀️ Let's just not give a f#@£ about fairness and let the strongest men take all the prizes. You guys are such a disappointment. Like you use logic and facts only with atheism, and that's the end of it.

If Fallon Fox, a trans woman MMA fighter, who had been an adult before transitioning, did not ever have an undefeated season and never even fucking qualified for UFC, the "top tier" of MMA...there's no fucking way that it'd matter in any other sport when it didn't even provide her a huge edge in a _FUCKING COMBAT SPORT_ where all these supposed advantages would actually matter the fucking most.

Trans women after certain years on hormones certainly dont have cis male abilities. Whatever everyone says all the examples given are young lids who transition like a year. In the olympics where things are more strict , no one has heard about that issue. So again usa centric conversations.

If they had their way they'd put a ban on drag racing.

I get that this was asked of them but can we get away from these subjects here? All it does is give ammo to our stalkers.

Is it necessary to say "like" so many times???

The biggest issue in transgender discussions is definition of terms. The term Transgender covers a number of different conditions/issues/presentations. If we force a transgender person to get hormone therapy to compete when that therapy is not required for their mental or physical wellbeing, that is a problem. Regarding the other assertion that the mindset of wanting to win gold precludes someone competing against anyone but the best in the field - that would also preclude cheating - which is clearly incorrect.

All you evolution deniers, if your argument is that because you know water is wet that you know evolution is false, your argument is backwards. If you tell me that your surgeon must know what they are doing because they know that blood is red, you deserve that surgeon.😂

I do not believe in god, I believe what folks tell me at dinner.

You have to start by defining your terms. Not all transgender people are the same, or at the same stage of transition; not all sports favor a man’s physique over a woman’s or vice-versa (for instance, a 6’5” transgender woman isn’t going to have any advantage in figure skating, horse racing, or gymnastics). We also have to ask what makes an advantage an *unfair advantage.* There’s a woman in the WNBA who is 7’2” (218 cm) tall. Is she *too tall* to play in the WNBA? Or are we giving her advantage a pass because of who she is? If that’s the case, it’s clear that people aren’t concerned about the advantage, per se; they’re only complaining about the *person* who has that advantage. That is discrimination by definition.

So sad to see these two throw all common sense just because of their political ideology, at there end of the day there is no debate to be had here and we all know it deep down, they are just not allowed to say it in fear of being branded a phobe.

This issue has nothing to do with religion even if religious people try to make that a thing. And, they went on and on about whether transgender is a real thing and not a choice. For the issue that has very little to do with if they can compete since they are already competing. My concerns are that my daughter has to compete with transgender athletes that have years and years of building a body with a higher level of testosterone, that they will be taller on average than her, and that although they will lose some muscle mass they will still be stronger and faster. They even mention that results of studies show advantages and some no advantages. In other words, they have not fully figured it out. So, the reasonable thing to do is let women's sports remain just cis women.

One solution could be weight classes in some sports. Otherwise, a division system with defined performance parameters would probably work well. But I don't know enough about sports to provide anything deeper than this.

Saying “why should we care, sports don’t matter” then calling it bigotry when people say women should only compete against women. What a contradiction. The women who work so hard get completely screwed over by transgender men. it’s pathetic to say “stop the hate” this is why I only watch old videos from this channel. this has nothing to do with recongnizing that trans people exist or “hating” trans people.

Used to think these guys were reasonable and worth listening to. Yikes….

Its not an athiest issue, but trans women have an advantage against biological women so they probably shouldnt compete against eachother. Atleast not when scholarships are on the line, the real women should het the scholarship even if the trans women is better because of sourse they are. I dont deny that trans people exist and thats good for them, but you cant just take away winnings from proper women, that's unfair advantage gives you easy wins. And yes, people have just said they are trans and taken records with little to no hrt or any other changes. These are facts...

This is why I no longer watch this channel.

Nonbelievers would approve of someone like a.young Mike Tyson (if there ever was one for example identifying as a female and boxing females.

No

“ Kids know early on when they are transgender or not and to get them on the appropriat hormone therapy as soon as possible.” Are you advocating kids to get hormone therapy before or after puberty? I hope the latter!!! Christ man,maybe kids know and maybe they don’t. What bias of parents and or Doctor will they be going to?

First 💪🤠☝️

Sorry but no.

When a school can facilitate a 'transition' WITHOUT notifying the parents then THAT is a huge problem. HANDS OFF THE KIDS!!! This channel has become too woke unsubbed

No , unless you want to destroy woman's sport

most youtube atheists are on the gay side of nonsense

I don't know man but i live in a time when a 28 year old trans dude from Portugal won a beauty contest. A very confused generation 😨

New studies coming out are showing a disadvantage to trans athletes

Mental gymnastics you're doing reminds me of Jordan Peterson. 😂 There is nothing to investigate in women vs man sports world. The one-year hormone therapy period has nothing to do with it, and you know it. Female hormones will not undo bone volume and density and respiratory capacity which play a major role in strength and endurance. The "no one would choose to be trans because of problems" argument is in the same ballpark as being ready to die for belief in Christ. Not sure why are you doing this. My guess is financial support.

Demonstrate that trans women are dominating women's sports. Demonstrate there has been a significant rise in serious injuries in women's sports since trans women have been competing. Otherwise i don't give a toss about your opinions or sport.

Let the kids decide what team they want to be on, enough said.

Trans women should play in women’s sports. It’s the morally correct position. It’s the pragmatic position that’s more complex, but not an impossible situation. There are solutions to the competitive fairness ethic, on all women. Case by case basis on objective eligibility criteria seems to be the most fair, but of course some women will test out if the league (cis or trans). I propose a”superwomen league” to accommodate for those who test above and beyond the eligibility criteria. 😊