Triangle of Power

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3Blue1Brown

3Blue1Brown

Күн бұрын

Alternate notation for powers, logs, and roots.
Help fund future projects: / 3blue1brown
An equally valuable form of support is to simply share some of the videos.
(This is the corrected version of the one I put out a month or so ago, in which my animation for all the inverse operations was incorrect)
Here's a sketch from the math redditer Cosmologicon showing how this might be usual with practical space considerations: i.imgur.com/hAeJokq.jpg
This original comes from an answer to a math exchange post by Alex Jordan, which you can find here: math.stackexchange.com/questio...
I also briefly flashed a blog post with another interesting alternative for logarithm notation: www.solidangl.es/2015/04/a-rad...

Пікірлер: 1 500
@blackpenredpen
@blackpenredpen 8 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the excellent math video!
@NovaWarrior77
@NovaWarrior77 3 жыл бұрын
Fancy seeing you here!
@MiyuwiTV
@MiyuwiTV 3 жыл бұрын
@Darwin Wilder um what does that have to do with the video
@MiyuwiTV
@MiyuwiTV 3 жыл бұрын
@Darwin Wilder are you a bot
@MiyuwiTV
@MiyuwiTV 3 жыл бұрын
@Marlon Lachlan are you a different bot or that person on an alt account you both have blank pfps and made up names like bots
@naman4067
@naman4067 2 жыл бұрын
It's just caley diagram of operation
@AndyGoth111
@AndyGoth111 7 жыл бұрын
"the notation for each varies radically" I see what you did there.
@joda7697
@joda7697 4 жыл бұрын
Oh my god i did not even notice that until i read your comment. That's awesome.
@carozpp
@carozpp Жыл бұрын
can you explain please
@AndyGoth111
@AndyGoth111 Жыл бұрын
@@carozpp "Radical" has a double meaning
@Phoenix_Vizvai
@Phoenix_Vizvai 5 жыл бұрын
2◿3=8 power 3◹8=2 root 8◺2=3 log (2◿3)◺2=3 log inverts power 3◹(2◿3)=2 root inverts power (3◹8)◿3=8 power inverts root 8◺(3◹8)=3 log inverts root (8◺2)◹8=2 root inverts log 2◿(8◺2)=8 power inverts log It’s beautifully symmetrical and the symbols don’t conflict with existing ones. Going left-to-right, exponents are slanting upwards as the height gets larger, implying growth. It also matches the current superscript and ^ notation. Roots are also similar to the current notation, slanting downwards with the height coming down from the horizontal side, implying reduction. The log doesn’t look much like the existing symbol but it shows the most shrinkage, implying its end behavior. And on paper you can save time by not drawing the horizontal sides! Just 2 lines. The fourth right triangle isn’t used. But that’s cool, I don’t like how equilateral the triangle of power is anyway, when the corners are clearly not meant to be interchangeable. The right triangle notation still shows that each flip is an inversion. Parentheses still matter because you’re turning a triangle into a line. Not my fault, it’s inline. Hope you guys enjoy! Leave a reply with thoughts and suggestions. :)
@vincelaszloszalma2103
@vincelaszloszalma2103 4 жыл бұрын
Pragmatic extension of the presented concept!
@jaypaans3471
@jaypaans3471 4 жыл бұрын
Yes! Let's make this the new default! Oh wait. People are slow when it comes to changes. Even when it's really better... Ugh.
@hcrdfju4954
@hcrdfju4954 3 жыл бұрын
@@jaypaans3471 depressing truth :(
@raph2550
@raph2550 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah I thought the same thing about the equilateral aspect in the video
@LeoStaley
@LeoStaley 3 жыл бұрын
YES! Good notation can be written sequentially, on a single line. The only exception to this is fractions (and continued fractions), but there are ways to denote them on a single line already. If you were to be typing the power triangle out in online text of some kind, what order would you write the symbols in? And why get rid of the equals sign? New notation should not eliminate good old notation like the equals sign. A single, reorientable symbol to connect 2 values, and a standard equals sign to indicate the value of the relationship, is immeasurably superior to the triangle of power demonstrated here.
@CaryDominic123
@CaryDominic123 7 жыл бұрын
As a student in 11th grade...I won't really use the triangle of power often...but it really helped me understand the relationship of the three ideas...
@SojournerDidimus
@SojournerDidimus 6 жыл бұрын
In electronics - as you hinted - calculating parallel resistance is usually denoted as two forward slashes (two parallel lines). This is an easier symbol to type than the o-plus symbol you proposed. a // b = 1/(1/a + 1/b)
@SentientDoorknob
@SentientDoorknob 11 ай бұрын
Bear in mind that // is used in CS to mean rounded division
@Mr.Nichan
@Mr.Nichan Жыл бұрын
What I like about this notation is that it kind of matches the positions of the numbers in our current notation, so, to some extent at least, you can just draw or imagine it over the current notation when necessary and get the same mnemonic effects without having to actually change the notation you use and create confusion, nor figure out how to type or write all these triangles all the time.
@SolidSiren
@SolidSiren Жыл бұрын
Yea the current notation mostly tells you what it means perhaps with logs being a bit of an exception. Powers are raised higher in the notation, implying growth. Subscript implies reduction or foundation. Another commenter pointed this out and I agree. Although they are kind of weird to learn at first, they really aren't difficult, and having the 3 different ways of notation allows us to express things differently in different situations/types of mathematical investigation. In my opinion, the different notations actually HELPED me to understand the connection between the operations and how useful they all are. Maybe I'm an exception and others don't agree, idk. I tend to use both my left brain and my right brain even in maths, I don't believe I'm right brain or left brain "dominant" as they say.
@eduardocortez476
@eduardocortez476 7 жыл бұрын
1:10 "What the h*ll" I've never heard him be that angry; I'm scared! Anthropomorphic pi creature, hold me!
@skpcboy
@skpcboy 6 жыл бұрын
hell
@justsean808
@justsean808 6 жыл бұрын
Yeah. And the bg music isn't the typical soothe.
@JorgetePanete
@JorgetePanete 6 жыл бұрын
Eduardo Cortez you forgot the question mark
@thetrashman5252
@thetrashman5252 5 жыл бұрын
Heck.
@aleccraig7283
@aleccraig7283 5 жыл бұрын
He's up in serifs about it
@noelearlwatson2724
@noelearlwatson2724 7 жыл бұрын
You should do a ted talk on this
@kindlin
@kindlin 6 жыл бұрын
Like x3 plx
@mirandamoralez6354
@mirandamoralez6354 6 жыл бұрын
agree!
@Supware
@Supware 6 жыл бұрын
There are lots of topics in maths that need a 3Blue1Brown TED Talk
@franzacq
@franzacq 6 жыл бұрын
I was just thinking this
@dux2508
@dux2508 5 жыл бұрын
Every lecture is a TED Talk
@reubenfrench6288
@reubenfrench6288 8 жыл бұрын
The only notation I think really needs to be addressed is that there are at least 3 uses for superscripts: exponents, function iterations, and derivatives. sin^2(x)=sin(x)*sin(x); sin^-1(x)=arcsin(x); sin^[4](x)=d^4/dx^4(sin(x)). It gets really annoying tutoring someone in calculus when one equation uses sin^2(x), the next uses sin^-1(x), and the next uses sin^[4](x).
@3blue1brown
@3blue1brown 8 жыл бұрын
+Reuben F I wholeheartedly agree
@rossjennings4755
@rossjennings4755 8 жыл бұрын
There is sort of a point to this, in that it allows us to see that all three of these concepts are basically instances of the same thing: function iteration. In the case of derivatives, the operation you're iterating is that of taking the derivative, and in the case of exponentiation, the operation you're iterating is multiplication by the number being exponentiated. I agree it gets confusing when it comes to things like sin^-1(x)=arcsin(x) vs. 1/sin(x)=csc(x), though, because there are two different kinds of function application is taking place at two different conceptual levels. For this reason, I like to write sin(x)^2 instead of the more commonly seen sin^2(x), because I think that in a perfect world the second version, where the squaring appears to be applied to the function symbol rather than the result of the function, would be reserved for sin(sin(x)).
@rodrigoappendino
@rodrigoappendino 8 жыл бұрын
I prefer Leibniz notation a lot. Diferential notation.
@DavidFosterZen
@DavidFosterZen 8 жыл бұрын
Don't forget inverses, like sin^[-1] That notation drives me nuts.
@reubenfrench6288
@reubenfrench6288 8 жыл бұрын
Inverse notation can be thought of as a negative of function iteration.
@mistycremo9301
@mistycremo9301 7 жыл бұрын
I got permission from my math teacher to use this for all of my work, and it is just so much better to use.
@nikhilnagaria2672
@nikhilnagaria2672 2 жыл бұрын
cool
@segmentsAndCurves
@segmentsAndCurves 2 жыл бұрын
pogger
@totoshampoin
@totoshampoin 2 жыл бұрын
Why would you need permission tho
@mistycremo9301
@mistycremo9301 2 жыл бұрын
@@totoshampoin It's been four year, I have no memory of this
@codecraftercc
@codecraftercc Жыл бұрын
@@mistycremo9301 do you still use it tho? XD
@mokopa
@mokopa 5 жыл бұрын
This was the first 3B1B I ever watched. Wow...here I am now, on my way to a degree in Mathematics thanks to this (and a few other) inspiring videos...
@corvidophilm5301
@corvidophilm5301 4 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of Ohm's triangle: V I R cover up the one you want, read the other two. So V=IR, I=V/R, R=V/I.
@spudmckenzie4959
@spudmckenzie4959 4 жыл бұрын
This is what i thought of aswell. The tringular concept can be applied to alot of things
@rationalmartian
@rationalmartian 3 жыл бұрын
@@spudmckenzie4959 Yup. Me too. It kind of leapt right out. Though it's one of a few things that instantly reminds me of my old fella. He was an electrical down the pit, and interested in allsorts. I remember him teaching me Ohms law, and the triangle representation, on the wheeled adjustable table we had that floated about downstairs. A basic points, condenser/capacitor and coil car ignition system is another. Though this is Fiftyish years ago, I still would draw it identically to how he did. He was awesome. I was lucky, he pretty made me what I am. I was most impressed with this. Just so visual and intuitive. This kind of thing tends to help me no end.
@alejrandom6592
@alejrandom6592 3 жыл бұрын
it's funny that I actually found about that in a book as a kid without knowing anything about electricity, but it then became the only way I could understand algebra back then, "if ab=c then a=c/b" looked like a hard formula, so I remembered the triangle every time...
@hubb8049
@hubb8049 3 жыл бұрын
I learned this with v, s and t but it works with most multiplication equations like F=ma
@sensorer
@sensorer 2 жыл бұрын
In our school we'd form a triagle like this for almost every physics formula and it made it so much easier for students to understand the relation
@mildlyacidic
@mildlyacidic 7 жыл бұрын
One triangle to rule them all...
@Bluedragon2513
@Bluedragon2513 6 жыл бұрын
A weapon to surpass metal gear
@wf4860
@wf4860 5 жыл бұрын
One triangle to find them
@Bnelen
@Bnelen 5 жыл бұрын
@@wf4860 One triangle to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
@aditimuthkhod1252
@aditimuthkhod1252 3 жыл бұрын
@@Bnelen In the Land of Math where the Syntax lie.
@franzluggin398
@franzluggin398 8 жыл бұрын
One problem I just realized when watching the video is that the triangle of power is probably confusing to students because it is not a function, but an equation, that, when a value is left out, _implies_ a function. That I think is not an easy leap of logic for someone who is probably not all that familiar with implicit functions, since polynomials, starting with y=ax^2+bx+c, are needed a lot sooner than logarithms and roots, meaning they were taught in my school in what probably amounts to the second year of high school. Of course, there is no harm in introducing them strictly as the lower left being the variable, the upper one being constant and the right one being the result you seek at first, and only afterwards telling them more. It may give them the wrong impression, though, that implicit functions can usually be rewritten to be one explicit function on the whole domain (if you make the domain the positive reals, at least). Which is by far not the case.
@NozaOz
@NozaOz 6 жыл бұрын
Franz Luggin they do represent functions, simpler ones too. When you have constants (which you generally always have at least one) there are specific steps you must take to cancel out unknowns (multiplication, basic addition, “o-plus”, etc). It’s more that it has the ability to simply many concepts in an intuitive way, and presenting it in a visual and intuitive way.
@lyrimetacurl0
@lyrimetacurl0 5 жыл бұрын
It reminded me of the Multiplication Triangle. (For people who for know that one, let's use the same symbols as this video: y on the top, x on the left and z on the right. Then y/x = z, y/z = x and x*z = y).
@vsevolodi.5373
@vsevolodi.5373 5 жыл бұрын
Let me rephrase you: this notation sucks and is unnecessary for anyone who understands what the hell log, power and root mean.
@jackdecker1664
@jackdecker1664 4 жыл бұрын
You can just put a () around the variable you want to make the function depend on
@firelow
@firelow 7 жыл бұрын
2³ = 8 ³8 = 2 2Δ8 = 3
@firelow
@firelow 7 жыл бұрын
Just imagine a tiny Δ under the ³s if needed
@unev
@unev 7 жыл бұрын
2/³\8
@eloujtimereaver4504
@eloujtimereaver4504 7 жыл бұрын
I really like the positioning, and I like Yevgeny's. 2/\8, hmm... One of the big problems we are facing is the fact that many of these symbols /, Δ, are used for other things already in math, but I think having the two together like in Yevgeny's helps dispel that problem, and is typable by most keyboard layouts I know of.
@RedsBoneStuff
@RedsBoneStuff 7 жыл бұрын
Just use /\ for everything. 2/3\=8 /3\8=2 2/\8=3
@johnsherfey3675
@johnsherfey3675 7 жыл бұрын
William Pereira Gomes This could be cool for coding
@Tsskyx
@Tsskyx 7 жыл бұрын
Rather than using this as a substitute for what we currently have, it would be more useful as a visualization tool. I for example understand logs perfectly, but working with them was always a bit hard for me. I also had no idea why writing a log of n of a base b is the same thing as writing it as a fraction of two logs with an arbitrary base z. This triangle really helped me understand logs more.
@user-sc6mf9wj1f
@user-sc6mf9wj1f 7 жыл бұрын
i am a horses
@industrialdonut7681
@industrialdonut7681 6 жыл бұрын
Tsskyx "I understand logs perfectly...this triangle really helped me understand logs more" Lol?
@chickenfrend
@chickenfrend 6 жыл бұрын
I think exponentiation, and radical notation is okay. I think log notation sucks and should probably be replaced.
@firstlast8720
@firstlast8720 6 жыл бұрын
Chickenfrend agree
@nicholaskarnes1186
@nicholaskarnes1186 5 жыл бұрын
Bro, one minute you say "I understand logs perfectly," and then next minute you say "it help me understand logs better." You are making no sense?
@MustSeto
@MustSeto 8 жыл бұрын
I have an idea to make this work inline and on a standard keyboard. We already have a separate notation for x to the power of y is z using a the carrot symbol: x^y = z I noticed that the carrot looks like a triangle with the bottom part "cut off", with only the top corner remaining. So what symbols do we get if we keep the other corners instead? You get symbols that look a bit like "". But you could use those symbols to represent the adjacent number's place in the triangle. You'd basically be trying to make a triangle out of the symbols "". As close as possible using a standard keyboard, anyways. For example (hopefully I've kept everything straight): logx(z) = y would become xz = y y root of z = x would become y^>z = x x to the power of y = z would become x
@3blue1brown
@3blue1brown 8 жыл бұрын
I love it!
@FalkorX
@FalkorX 8 жыл бұрын
I see a problem here: in standard mathematical notation we are used to using infix symbols to represent operations, because our numbers are made out of digits and using a symbol infix clearly separates the operands from one each other. Since 12^3 clearly means "12 to the 3rd power", your notation has a problem with ^123 and 123^, since these are ambiguous in that the operands could be 12 and 3, or 1 and 23. But nice thinking anyway, I liked the simplicity of your idea.
@MustSeto
@MustSeto 6 жыл бұрын
It is infix though, isn't it? ^123 and 123^ aren't valid.
@Hivlik
@Hivlik 5 жыл бұрын
log() notation makes more sense knowing exp() notation. Since nobody uses exp() notation until long after learning exponents, log() seems out of place
@soyokou.2810
@soyokou.2810 Жыл бұрын
An observation: (a+b)(a⊕b)=ab This follows from how we add fractions: 1/(a⊕b)=1/a+1/b=(a+b)/ab. Thus we have a sequence of equalities: ab = (a+b)(a⊕b) = (a+b+a⊕b)((a+b)⊕a⊕b) = (a+b+a⊕b+(a+b)⊕a⊕b)((a+b+a⊕b)⊕(a+b)⊕a⊕b) = ... Probably not of any use but an interesting decomposition.
@wyattstevens8574
@wyattstevens8574 10 ай бұрын
Reciprocate, and we get a // b (the // notation is *for* parallel resistance, not for rounding in the CS context) = ab/(a+b)
@knighty0220
@knighty0220 7 жыл бұрын
Power, wisdom and courage.
@fuseteam
@fuseteam 6 жыл бұрын
Now we just need a triangle of wisdom(addition/substraction) and a triangle of courage(multiplication/division)
@fuseteam
@fuseteam 6 жыл бұрын
....and now I remember that if the exponent is negative its division
@StarTheTripleDevil
@StarTheTripleDevil 5 жыл бұрын
Except addition/subtraction and multiplication/division aren't triangular operations in the same way. x+y is the same as y+x and x×y is the same as y×x but x^y isn't necessarily the same as y^x.
@timh.6872
@timh.6872 5 жыл бұрын
@@StarTheTripleDevil I actually took note of that and tried to run with this idea while taking into account the symmetry of the symbol. The first thing to decide is how these diagrams should compose. I chose vertically, so that the "result" of an operation is always on top. This means the expressions form trees, which is good. Obviously, exponentiation cannot be horizontal mirror symmetric, but addition and multiplication must. The symbols also have to be asymmetric vertically, because the "result" is at the top and the "inputs" are on the bottom. I think I ended up with convex and concave "caps" for addition and multiplication, but had a tough time finding a good one for exponentiation. The other difficulty this syntax has is scaling to large expressions, and expressing equality, at least conventionally. Unlike the traditional symbols, these operation diagrams are relations, not functions. We get a value (or set of values) back when we leave one point unspecified. When all are specified, we get a logical proposition that is either true or false. And when we leave two unspecified, we get a function-ish thing that could take one value and spit out the results (because might be more than one answer satisfying the expression) or take two values and spit out true or false depending on if the relation holds. This is very foreign thinking, and the syntax also doesn't scale very well to 3+ input relationships. But I still think it is worth exploring if you're up for it.
@cheekibreeki904
@cheekibreeki904 3 жыл бұрын
You may only pick two.
@jampk24
@jampk24 8 жыл бұрын
I can't imagine a scenario where I would enjoy trying to squeeze these triangles into my notes without screwing up my line spacing.
@JNCressey
@JNCressey 8 жыл бұрын
How do you cope when you have to draw a graph? Do you try and fit that into a line of your notes?
@raykent3211
@raykent3211 8 жыл бұрын
I'm grateful to a random youtuber for telling me a very simple way of getting accented letters on my android keyboard and I'm wondering if maths could make more use of these already available characters for inline notation. Maybe aébėc to represent the triangle abc starting at bottom left? So 3é2 = 9 etc . It seems to me that the triangle of power is a good method of visualisation and that in-line notation may be solvable.
@raykent3211
@raykent3211 8 жыл бұрын
I'm grateful to a random youtuber for telling me a very simple way of getting accented letters on my android keyboard and I'm wondering if maths could make more use of these already available characters for inline notation. Maybe aébėc to represent the triangle abc starting at bottom left? So 3é2 = 9 etc . It seems to me that the triangle of power is a good method of visualisation and that in-line notation may be solvable.
@JNCressey
@JNCressey 8 жыл бұрын
You could even just write it as: (2,3,•) = 8 (2,•,8) = 3 (•,3,8) = 2
@jodeum2
@jodeum2 7 жыл бұрын
Don't use lined paper, use blank. Scenario imagined. You're welcome.
@krotenschemel8558
@krotenschemel8558 8 жыл бұрын
Several years of math tought in 8 minutes... this is by far the most useful youtube video.
@Kissaki0
@Kissaki0 8 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I’ll have to rewatch/analyze/play with it to really grasp it though. It’s not like you watch the video and learned it all either.
@sanjeevkushwaha7614
@sanjeevkushwaha7614 7 жыл бұрын
I was also thinking the same.
@videofountain
@videofountain 6 жыл бұрын
Even though the original statement got so so many up votes I am slightly relieved you have at least 30 votes.
@ivanadriazola1991
@ivanadriazola1991 5 жыл бұрын
Benoit Avril Yeah but they make you spend 8 years learning it I think it may because there is more slow people than fast people in math
@firephoenix5556
@firephoenix5556 5 жыл бұрын
Several years of spelling taught* in 1 comment... oh wait.
@nujuat
@nujuat 7 жыл бұрын
I don't think I'll use the triangle of power, but I probably will use the O-plus operation (well, in that context rather than just as XOR). It deserves its own symbol.
@stvltn
@stvltn 7 жыл бұрын
I learned a notation that could possibly be more intuitive: A || B (at my university it's called parallel sum, well because it's used for parallel resistances)
@ppaaccoojrf
@ppaaccoojrf 5 жыл бұрын
I think that's the standard that all electrical engineers use, and it's indeed quite intuitive for one of its more popular uses.
@Awave3
@Awave3 4 жыл бұрын
I'll see about using it next time i'm doing circuit analysis.
@angeldude101
@angeldude101 2 жыл бұрын
Coming from a programming context, A || B immediately reads to me as logical or. Bitwise xor has different notations depending on the language, so I think I usually just spell it out, (logical xor is just !=) though in the main language that I use, it's represented as x ^ b, because that's not confusing at all. (exponentiation is only available through functions like x.pow(b))
@JM-us3fr
@JM-us3fr 8 жыл бұрын
I'd actually love it if you did more notation rants. This was so beautiful!
@LuisCarlos-kp6jq
@LuisCarlos-kp6jq 8 жыл бұрын
This is genius! But in order to give more generallity to the name, please take in consideration this one: "operational triangle" (or maybe "op. triangle") instead of "triangle of power". Please keep going with your work, and let me say again: THIS IS GENIUS!!
@3blue1brown
@3blue1brown 8 жыл бұрын
+Luis Carlos Thanks! The genius here goes to the originator Alex Jordan. I like the name you suggested, though of course it's too late to make any changes.
@Naokarma
@Naokarma 3 жыл бұрын
While both sound cool, the triangle of power gives a better connection, name-wise, to what it's talking about, at least as far as how we explain these topics currently, i.e. we raise 2 to the power of 3 to get 8, which can be represented using the triangle of power, which kinda gives the same feeling of using summation notation, since the notation's name tells you what's going on much more directly than some other notations. "Operational Triangle" makes it less connected to what it's talking about.
@JerryFederspiel
@JerryFederspiel 2 жыл бұрын
@@Naokarma I think the idea of using a general name like "operational triangle" is to suggest using the triangle notation (perhaps with an operator drawn inside the triangle) to three-way relations other than just x^y=z.
@MrRyanroberson1
@MrRyanroberson1 8 жыл бұрын
so far i got around 50 people into this concept with one sheet of paper, going from confusion to brilliance in no effort, the laws of exponents are made a part of the actual symbol, i teach the 2^3=(1/3)root(2) as 2 (3/1) reflects into (1/3) 2 [i say teach in an unofficial way, i am only a student]
@3blue1brown
@3blue1brown 8 жыл бұрын
Love it! Are you a tutor?
@MrRyanroberson1
@MrRyanroberson1 8 жыл бұрын
unpaid, and only coincidental due to proximity, but this symbol makes me sad that i dont have more reasons to use it. Also: try replacing the values in the a^b=c triangle with their equivalents in a fractal, what is intuitive in the triangle form looks like the most ridiculous mess ever in "standard" form. lol, i actually laughed when i first came up with it.
@3blue1brown
@3blue1brown 8 жыл бұрын
You mean in a Sierpinski triangle kind of pattern? I can only imagine.
@MrRyanroberson1
@MrRyanroberson1 8 жыл бұрын
look at this: postimg.org/image/5y5w60563/ then try to convert it into "standard", you'll see the astoundingly fast progression of complexity
@3blue1brown
@3blue1brown 8 жыл бұрын
Hmmm, that does indeed seem absurd.
@johnchessant3012
@johnchessant3012 6 жыл бұрын
Change we can believe in (you replaced "change" with a triangle, like a delta). I see what you did there :D
@yosefgomgom225
@yosefgomgom225 4 жыл бұрын
I just even realize when I see your comment :)
@GrEEnEyE089
@GrEEnEyE089 7 жыл бұрын
I like the idea but those things could get quite big once you get more complex expressions.
@wallacesantos0
@wallacesantos0 5 жыл бұрын
Just like fractions. So I don't think its a problem
@y.z.6517
@y.z.6517 5 жыл бұрын
@@wallacesantos0 Fractions can be written as x/y
@prestonhall5171
@prestonhall5171 5 жыл бұрын
Y. Z. Or x • y^-1
@darkdelphin834
@darkdelphin834 5 жыл бұрын
Exactly
@beaconofwierd1883
@beaconofwierd1883 4 жыл бұрын
​@@wallacesantos0 Just like fractions, that's the problem. Fractions mess up calculations. If I have more than one I always just write (x + blah blah )/(y + blah blah) to keep it on the same line. Having to do the same for power,log and root would just destroy any semblance of readability in my notes, and I bet I'm not the only one :/
@SpiritmanProductions
@SpiritmanProductions 2 жыл бұрын
What a brilliant idea! But is the term "Power Triangle" already taken? I would've thought it more succinct. Or have I overlooked something?
@AniDeGrootForReal
@AniDeGrootForReal 2 жыл бұрын
It does in power engineering. Represents the relationship among active power, apparent power, and real power.
@Frightning
@Frightning 6 жыл бұрын
When I was young, I learned addition and multiplication, and their relationships to subtraction and division respectively using a similar triangle patterned method. We would have a triangular card with 3 numbers, the top was the sum or product (operation symbol could be put in the center for clarity), the other two were the summands or multiplicands (or factors) respectively. In general, any binary operand can be expressed using triangular notation, and it naturally encodes the related 'binary relations' which exchange one of the inputs with the output. That is to say, given sets, A,B, and C, and a relation *:(A X B) X C, which relates ordered pairs, (a,b) from A X B, to elements, c, of C. There are analogous relations for pairs of the form (a,c) to elements, b, and for pairs (b,c) to elements a. In the case that the original relation is actually a 'nice enough' function, those other relations may also be functions, perhaps even 'nice' functions (as the examples from arithmetic make clear).
@seancarnell1503
@seancarnell1503 3 жыл бұрын
3:45 thank you for reminding us form and function aren't mutually exclusive and it takes all types to help make math (and other sciences) approachable by all.
@ajnelson1431
@ajnelson1431 7 жыл бұрын
I enjoy this method very much! It is quite fun and satisfying. Took me a while to figure out how to do inverse operations, e.g. solving an equation by applying the inverse to both sides.
@atanunath
@atanunath 8 жыл бұрын
Can't believe people are complaining about line-spacing ! Learn something from Feynman and his diagrams.
@mechadense
@mechadense 7 жыл бұрын
Exactly, the real problem is the horrible inflexibility of today's computer systems. Check out: "Drawing Dynamic Visualizations" from Bret Victor vimeo.com/66085662 which is strongly related.
@Hjelmsveis123
@Hjelmsveis123 7 жыл бұрын
Best reply.
@acoral1035
@acoral1035 7 жыл бұрын
It`s less linear way to write down. not a problem when you want to show the relations. But it is when you have some big unsolving equation.
@jcavs9847
@jcavs9847 6 жыл бұрын
ACoral i mean, writing a number on the top-right of another isn't very linear either but we managed to adapt it to computer language using the operator ^
@user-zb8tq5pr4x
@user-zb8tq5pr4x 4 жыл бұрын
@@metachirality how would it be any different than?
@user-su4dd9kp7l
@user-su4dd9kp7l 4 жыл бұрын
People in another comment were suggesting something along the lines of a/b\c, where a^b=c. Obviously not perfect, but something along those lines seems like it would work well.
@Anonymous-df8it
@Anonymous-df8it 2 жыл бұрын
Lol! For a challenge, see if you can figure out what this is: (-b+-/2\b/2\-4ac)/(2a). Good luck!
@TheSpec90
@TheSpec90 7 жыл бұрын
"I'll just study art!" but math is art .-.
@KaosFireMaker
@KaosFireMaker 7 жыл бұрын
Which is something that sadly very few artists understand.
@fuseteam
@fuseteam 6 жыл бұрын
TheSpec90 I missed that joke genius blue
@baweeditions
@baweeditions 6 жыл бұрын
And art is math (y) golden ratio, etc ;)
@felipebrandel5436
@felipebrandel5436 6 жыл бұрын
beauty alone doesn't make something art
@DemRat
@DemRat 5 жыл бұрын
TheSpec90 I'd argue that math lacks the subjectivity that is rather important to most forms of art. It's definitely beautiful tho.
@ccme2023
@ccme2023 6 жыл бұрын
This reminds me of the super hexagon for trig functions. I love this way of doing mathematics!
@vimalgopal5873
@vimalgopal5873 7 жыл бұрын
I don't see how this is any easier to understand. But, it's might be because my neural network has already been programmed in one way and it's hard to reprogram it.
@JorgetePanete
@JorgetePanete 6 жыл бұрын
Vimal Gopal it might*
@alephnull4044
@alephnull4044 5 жыл бұрын
Same thinking here.
@thehiddenninja3428
@thehiddenninja3428 5 жыл бұрын
Degrees still feel easier to understand to me than radians
@brianb.6356
@brianb.6356 5 жыл бұрын
​@@thehiddenninja3428 Tau-based radians are, IMO, a lot easier to understand than pi-based radians. Radians are a measure of (relative) length. 1 radian is the length of the radius of the circle. If you phrase it in terms of tau (since tau is all the way around the circle), the coefficient is the percentage around the circle you are. So .5t = halfway around the circle = 180 degrees, and so on. If you instead phrase radians in terms of pi, you need to remember that ugly factor of 2 that comes out because pi is a diameter-based constant, not a radius-based constant. (Or, you could alternatively define a unit based on diameter. Let's call it the diameteran, and set it equal to the diameter of the circle. In this system, all the way around the circle is pi diameterans, and so 180 degrees is 0.5 * pi diameterans.)
@GamingKing-jo9py
@GamingKing-jo9py 5 жыл бұрын
Neural networks learn
@NathanTAK
@NathanTAK 7 жыл бұрын
*[LONG POST WARNING- ALL THE THOUGHTS]* I like it. I'm going to start tormenting my math teacher by insisting on using it, as it even makes it easier when you have these things memorized. Now, on to the other thoughts: Huh, the sin/cos/tan notations at the beginning are actually pretty good. Presumably csc/sec/cot (which are the reciprocals of sin/cos/tan, respectively) would be the same inverted, and asin/acos/atan/acsc/asec/acot would be the same with a line over it. I'd prefer to drop the parentheses entirely though, except for disambiguation purposes. Reciprocal could be represented with just an overline (no '1/' needed), functions should be something like [approximated] x ->^f y, though there'd have to be a way to handle multiple arguments (Just use a tuple, most likely; f(x, y) = z becomes [approximated] (x, y) ->^f z). I like Big Sigma and Big Pi Notations, but there's a better idea so they have to go. They are replaced with 'basket notation' (which looks like a bigger, one-character version of |_|, joined at the top right to an overline over the formula (like in square roots) and optionally ending with a down serif). In basket notation, you write the initial state below, optionally a semicolon then the filter condition (so if, say, you only want to add primes, you do n=2; prime(n). Lack of the filter condition is interpreted as accepting any integer), the terminating condition above, the formula that x is applied to to the left, and the operation (or name of a function) inside the 'basket'. Summation is a basket with a plus inside, Big Pi has a '*' (not a '×' because it looks too much like 'x' when written), big conjunction ('all') uses ∧, big disjunction ('any') uses ∨, etc. But what do I do for tetration/super-root/super-logarithm? (Answer: Write the hyper-operation number in the middle of the triangle, bounded in a square.) Hyper-operations, for those not yet initiated are the generalization of the sequence a*b ||= a+a+..(b)..+a, a^b ||= a*a*..(b)..(a), etc. Tetration (a^^b here, usually uses an up-arrow) a^^b is a^(a^...^(a^(a))...) with b a's. Multiplication is repeated addition, exponentiation is repeated multiplication, tetration is repeated exponentiation, penetration is repeated tetration, sexation is repeated penetration. This also leads to a fun extra operation- "hyper-which"- where you have a[k]b = c, a, b, and c are known, and you need to find k. We can assume k=3 when box-with-k is given. Hyper-logarithm (traditionally log^*_b(x); means "how many times do I need to chain log_b on x to get it ≤1?") needs a notation- but that should be simple, just do log with * in the normally-vacant corner. The best criticism I've seen of this is for compactification (it makes things rather large)- but the solution, to me, is simple: the full ToP is like a horizontal fraction bar or superscript exponentiation (which we're already killing); you use it as you can, but when space becomes an issue you switch to a more linear notation (for division, the obelus or normal slash, for exponents, a caret (^)). Compact notation for exponent is an upwards-pointing equilateral triangle, for root it's a right-pointing equilateral triangle ('right is for root'), and for logarithms it's a left-pointing equilateral triangle ('left is for log') I almost used the opposite directions before I realized there's a nice mnemonic there. In fact, why not make it ALWAYS true? A missing right corner is root, a missing left corner is log- everything looks a bit off at first starting from old math (the superscript looks like it's BEFORE the base), but it wouldn't be hard to get used to. "o-plus" could be called 'harm' or 'harmon', because 1/sum([1/k for k in S]) is the "harmonic mean". The symbol, presumably, would look like something vaguely harmonic, like a semicircle or something (I'm not good with harmony, OK?); yeah, how about a semicircle, with the baseline passing through the center, with a radius from the uppermost point? While we can make new symbols, here's something that'd be nice: use symbols that are symmetrical over a vertical axis ONLY for operations which are commutative (e.g. +, *); minus (both used for subtraction and negation) will be, I suppose, an inverted minus sign (exactly the same, but with a short serif leading up from the right endpoint). harmonic minus (which is 1/((1/a)-(1/b))) is a semicircle the same as harmonic plus, but the radius comes from the rightmost point. On the topic of negation and symbols, reciprocal would look MUCH better if we could drop the 1 in 1/x entirely- just write x with an overline and it's implied to be 1/x.
@deleteaman
@deleteaman 2 жыл бұрын
I always come back for this video. It helps me a lot even years after finding this video. Just an OP method of exponent stuff.
@orgadish
@orgadish 4 жыл бұрын
The triangle of power and thinking about exp/roots/logs made me wonder what the equivalent is for addition/multiplication. And I realized that we can use a similar idea but the triangle sides are mult/div/div. That is 6/3=x means both "how many times do I add 3 to itself to get 6" (like roots) and also "what number needs to be added to itself 3 times to get 6" (like logs). I had never realized this duality of division (obviously the result of commutative property of multiplication that doesn't exist for exponentiation). And I think seeing this back when I was learning logs would have made them less unintuitive for me. I think that's yet another cool thing the triangle for symbolism can show! (On another note, would love to see more videos on your favorite bits of cool notation that would help math education!)
@yyunko7764
@yyunko7764 7 жыл бұрын
The solution is simple, don't use log bases of n-roots, just use x^(1/y) it makes a lot of relationships very easy to understand, also, use the x^y=exp(y*ln(x)) relationship.
@AnthonyCerruti
@AnthonyCerruti 7 жыл бұрын
I'm going to do this in my homework now.
@sebastiangudino9377
@sebastiangudino9377 6 жыл бұрын
I really liked the notation for sine cosine and tanget in the intro! I don't think students get too confused with Sigma and Capital PI, or with function. As much as the kids repeating SOH CAH TOA to themself everytime they use trigonometry. Using the side themself is just brilliant!
@peetiegonzalez1845
@peetiegonzalez1845 6 жыл бұрын
On top of all the incredibly intuitive explanations for complex subjects you have published, this is by far the most profound. I wish this had been common notation when I was learning maths. I work in finance now and having to work with logs and exponents constantly (for growth rates), I constantly have a mental block using currently accepted notation. This helps so much as a mental model. As another commenter said... you should do a TED talk on this.
@kwinvdv
@kwinvdv 7 жыл бұрын
Maybe to lower the change of making mistakes while writing this, you could flip the triangle, such that each number would be written near an edge instead of a corner of the triangle. This way you also make better use of the space around the triangle and the edges more clearly separate the numbers, avoiding possible confusion when writing long expressions on one line (since then the number in the lower corners are then written more on the sides).
@fuseteam
@fuseteam 6 жыл бұрын
K van der Veen that's actually an operator its called gradient I think
@grinreaperoftrolls7528
@grinreaperoftrolls7528 7 жыл бұрын
DUUUUDE! IT SHOULD BE CALLED THE TRIFORCE!
@obx4454
@obx4454 7 жыл бұрын
Grin Reaper Of Trolls no.
@StarTheTripleDevil
@StarTheTripleDevil 6 жыл бұрын
The Triforce is what happens when you combine the Triangle of Power with the Triangle of Wisdom and the Triangle of Courage.
@femifalase5576
@femifalase5576 4 жыл бұрын
..and may the force be with you
@gamespotlive3673
@gamespotlive3673 2 жыл бұрын
5:22 If you want a different example here's one. When trying to find what a the y-value of a bigger number(x) in an inverse equation you can o-plus the y-values of two smaller x's that add up to it. Here's an example problem: Sally can clean a table in 60 minutes and bob can in 40 minutes. If Sally and Bob work together to clean one table how long will it take them? The answer is that it will take them 60⊕40 = 24 minutes. Have a good day.
@R.F.9847
@R.F.9847 4 жыл бұрын
"Change we can believe in". 7:20 "Delta we can believe in". Nice.
@jmjmjmjmjmjmjmjmjmjmjm
@jmjmjmjmjmjmjmjmjmjmjm 8 жыл бұрын
is this not the same video from earlier? i literally watched your previous upload earlier today. either way it's a good video and i like the idea and the brief suggestions in the introduction for circular functions and stuff.
@3blue1brown
@3blue1brown 8 жыл бұрын
I decided to fix an error from the first one, which I decided was significant enough to warrant a second upload.
@DaKnightsofawesome
@DaKnightsofawesome 8 жыл бұрын
Most youtubers wouldn't do something like this, and I respect you for this.
@jmjmjmjmjmjmjmjmjmjmjm
@jmjmjmjmjmjmjmjmjmjmjm 8 жыл бұрын
+3Blue1Brown thats understandable. thanks for clearing that up haha
@MrRyanroberson1
@MrRyanroberson1 8 жыл бұрын
i just wonder what the mistake was? i think it was around the 6 identities... right? as i remember they were in 3 pairs, not 4 and 2, right?
@3blue1brown
@3blue1brown 8 жыл бұрын
I had put all the sub-triangles of the inverse-composition triangles on the wrong corner. Basically, when you unraveled what they meant, they all said things like x^(x^y) = y and log_(log_x(y))(y) = x, and other such nonsensical things.
@glebkamnev7006
@glebkamnev7006 5 жыл бұрын
Holy Fuck, this is so amazing. Might even mail it to my math teacher and ask her to implement that into the curriculum!
@Peterscraps
@Peterscraps Жыл бұрын
The neat thing about this in the context of typed notation is that the carat symbol ^3 still looks like the top portion of the power triangle. Makes it super easy to anchor the order in your head since it can be read left to right.
@ulilulable
@ulilulable 8 жыл бұрын
Yes! A corrected version! I was really hoping for this, actually.
@leekezar1344
@leekezar1344 8 жыл бұрын
I intend to use this symbol in my future math assignments. Hopefully professors will be amicable to change (doubtful).
@BudgieInWA
@BudgieInWA 8 жыл бұрын
Start with an unambiguous translation to the standard notation and tell them to deal with it :) You should be allowed to define your terms, right?
@Anonymous-df8it
@Anonymous-df8it 2 жыл бұрын
@@BudgieInWA Right...
@OtherTheDave
@OtherTheDave 8 жыл бұрын
The problem I see with this is that you can't type it out in a text editor.
@OtherTheDave
@OtherTheDave 8 жыл бұрын
It is very cool, though.
@OtherTheDave
@OtherTheDave 8 жыл бұрын
+Daniel Keriazis I'll poke around with it tomorrow, but I don't think Unicode does arbitrary superscripts or subscripts.
@3blue1brown
@3blue1brown 8 жыл бұрын
Well, all bets are off with math notation when you're in a text editor anyway. Radicals, existential quantifiers, special set symbols, etc. For the sake of programming, I see no problem with defining functions like "log", or "exp", but in a perfect world the image that would come to the programmers mind while writing these would be the symbol, in much the same way that a LaTeX writing saying "\dfrac{a}{b}" sees the fraction a/b in his mind.
@OtherTheDave
@OtherTheDave 8 жыл бұрын
+3Blue1Brown Funny you should mention that. Swift lets you use math symbols as operators, but it doesn't support sub or superscripting text.
@OtherTheDave
@OtherTheDave 8 жыл бұрын
+Daniel Keriazis Those change the color of a glyph... This would need to change its position. I'm not saying it can't be done, I just haven't come across it. Maybe the text system could be tricked into using an arbitrary string as an accent.
@RedsBoneStuff
@RedsBoneStuff 7 жыл бұрын
The triangle notation is indeed better than what we have, but it's really hard to change something everyone already uses. It's like if you wanted everyone to give up base 10 and start using base 12 or base 8. They're better than base 10 in every way, but everyone's been using base 10 their whole lives and people wouldn't want to change.
@kamikaze5236
@kamikaze5236 2 жыл бұрын
I'm Brazilian and this is exactly what Brazilian education needs, a simple notation that makes our students think, thank you so much for releasing this beautiful video presenting this brilliant idea of teaching math notation!
@hugojenkins4904
@hugojenkins4904 7 жыл бұрын
Maybe just eliminate the "empty vertex" entirely--just write variously oriented lines with two arguments at the end points.
@davinchristino
@davinchristino 2 жыл бұрын
Could work too, but could be more limiting
@denelson83
@denelson83 7 жыл бұрын
That "o-plus" operation you're referring to is what I like to call "intermediate reciprocal summation". However, the mathematical community as a whole prefers to call it "product over sum". See if you can figure out why.
@XGD
@XGD 6 жыл бұрын
Check out the Harmonic mean en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_mean
@danboekenoogen4957
@danboekenoogen4957 5 жыл бұрын
Not helpfull
@davinchristino
@davinchristino 2 жыл бұрын
Isn't it called like the 'harmonic' sum?
@Anonymous-df8it
@Anonymous-df8it 2 жыл бұрын
1/((1/x)+(1/y))=1/((y/xy)+(x/xy))=1/((y+x)/xy)=xy/(x+y) You're welcome!
@angeldude101
@angeldude101 Жыл бұрын
It's a special case of a^n + b^n = c^n. If n = 2, then it's euclidean distance. If n = 1, it's just normal addition (or the taxicab metric). If n = -1, it's the "o-plus" operation. Even more generally (Sₙ(v⃗))ⁿ = ∑ᵢ (vᵢ)ⁿ. Of course you can go even _more_ crazy if you want with different coefficients or powers for each term. There's a lot you can do with adding powers.
@TStut15IsMyMinecraft
@TStut15IsMyMinecraft 7 жыл бұрын
I love the idea. I will personally try to use this when I work with these operations, and if someone is confused by looking at it, I get to explain how interconnected exponents, square/cube/etc. Roots, and logs are.
@cl0p38
@cl0p38 9 ай бұрын
I was a bit skeptical of the concept until you showed the inverse operations. I went speechless. Simply so incredibly elegant! I'll try to adopt the power triangle on my homework! (Also, that log-root connection is so beautiful!)
@MagicGonads
@MagicGonads 7 жыл бұрын
I always write roots and exponents as fractional indices together, so this doesn't mean anything to me. It would be nice if the root/radical then corresponded to logarithms instead.
@PrimusProductions
@PrimusProductions 7 жыл бұрын
I would imagine writing notes for polynomials would be nightmarish with triangles as big as summation, product or integral symbols all over the place
@KaosFireMaker
@KaosFireMaker 7 жыл бұрын
But it would have the benefit of making it look more like you are trying to summon an elder god
@groszak1
@groszak1 5 жыл бұрын
integral symbol is 3-line ⌠ │ ⌡ so, that would mean triangles of power are also 3-line?
@wangtoonaive6451
@wangtoonaive6451 5 жыл бұрын
Awesome! I actually tried to find some symbols in place of log, sin, cos things during my math classes, but I didn't want to make mistakes in exams so I gave it up. This video is so inspiring!
@Freak80MC
@Freak80MC 3 жыл бұрын
I just remembered this video and still love it at much as when I first watched it, though I still think this is a notation that is great for beginners but needs to be simplified later on because it just takes up sooo much space when writing things out.
@NikolajLepka
@NikolajLepka 7 жыл бұрын
or what about just using the same notation for all, programming style: root(3, 4) = cube-root of four pow(3, 4) = three to the power of four log(3, 4) = log base four of three
@yoavshati
@yoavshati 7 жыл бұрын
It doesn't make things any simpler...
@NikolajLepka
@NikolajLepka 7 жыл бұрын
Yoav Shati no but it normalises the notation
@yoavshati
@yoavshati 7 жыл бұрын
The triangle both normalizes and simplifies
@NikolajLepka
@NikolajLepka 7 жыл бұрын
Yoav Shati I wouldn't say simplifies.
@yoavshati
@yoavshati 7 жыл бұрын
It can be more intuitive
@johanskak
@johanskak 7 жыл бұрын
If you flip the triangle over the vertical axis, the power should be taken to -1. Is there similar rules for the other axies, if not then why is the vertical axis special?
@Anonymous-df8it
@Anonymous-df8it 2 жыл бұрын
This needs to be pinned!
@Bronze_Age_Sea_Person
@Bronze_Age_Sea_Person 5 жыл бұрын
This video not only helped me remember the relations between the 3 operations,It helped me do calculations using only the mind,without any paper whatsoever. Now the three operations are as intuitive as multiplication for me
@Metricbuzz-seo
@Metricbuzz-seo 6 жыл бұрын
This is better explained than most books and teachers I have ever learned. I mean a good knowledge should be interlink with anything in nature, not just think from only 1 aspect but all aspects. I am inspired by this, already shared it.
@leviathan3351
@leviathan3351 7 жыл бұрын
If this were implemented, it would make students say math is illuminati confirmed...
@P-nk-m-na
@P-nk-m-na 2 жыл бұрын
they already do, just look at all the uses of the greek letter delta in stem stuff
@JC-cr5ty
@JC-cr5ty 7 жыл бұрын
If you've ever written a mathematical proof then you know that a*b=c has completely different uses from a=c/b. Although these notations mean the same thing, each one has its different uses.
@philippospratsos4198
@philippospratsos4198 Жыл бұрын
The real gem in this video is the idea he showed for sin, cos, and tan function notation.
@DanielC01000100
@DanielC01000100 6 жыл бұрын
Great video and great operator!! It really sums ups everything quite nicely and makes for easy to understand properties and formulas.
@Axion004
@Axion004 7 жыл бұрын
I don't think the Triangle of Power is easier than standard notation. I do agree that logarithms are confusing.
@katzen3314
@katzen3314 7 жыл бұрын
I'm quite happy with how it is currently, what I don't like is integral signs (and summations etc) where you can't fit it all on one line.
@jacobshirley3457
@jacobshirley3457 7 жыл бұрын
Even though those are beautiful symbols...
@joshua50101
@joshua50101 6 жыл бұрын
I recognize the bird by his beak. :)
@Frightning
@Frightning 6 жыл бұрын
Usually, this can be remedied with clever notation. I have seen a (very general) formula in a book (which is sitting next to me as I type this) that they managed to fit into two lines that, when expanded could easily fills pages for even fairly simple examples (in case you're wondering what it is that's being expressed: it is a total homotopy operator for the variational complex). The layers of compactifying notation in use in that formula is honestly amazing.
@enderwiggins8248
@enderwiggins8248 6 жыл бұрын
Katzen33 Even though it can be annoying, there's something so graceful about the integral sign
@kikrak78
@kikrak78 5 жыл бұрын
The integeral signe is very meaningful !!! It is a curve and you take the equation which is under the curve (ie right to). Clearly why would you change?
@jasmijnisme
@jasmijnisme 5 жыл бұрын
Back when I was learning algebra in school, I invented a similar triangle for multiplication, where if a and b are the lower points, the top point would be ab. This helped me to remember what I needed to divide by, since each lower point was the upper point divided by the other lower point. It's not nearly as insightful as the ToP, but it helped me solve formulas without having to rederive the rules for division in my head each time.
@matthewcullum1583
@matthewcullum1583 6 жыл бұрын
This was a very beautiful representation, and has encouraged me to look at symbolization as an important role in the ideas of mathematics.
@mikedemchenko3513
@mikedemchenko3513 7 жыл бұрын
Ok, think about this: basically all roots are no more then the denominators in power, such as root(2^7) is 2^(7/2), then think about derivatives of a^b and loga(b) function families and you will understand why a mess of giant triangles in deferential equations will be the stupidest thing you have ever seen. There is more think about the hell that will be programs written in triangle notation. One more argument is that we often use ln() as loge(), lg() as log10() and simple symbol for root2().(sorry for mistakes, not native English speaker)
@L4Vo5
@L4Vo5 7 жыл бұрын
What about making it look like this? triangle(a,b,?) = a^b triangle(a,?,c) = log base a of c triangle(?,b,c) = b root of c Or, to not completely change how computers interpret functions, make a function where the first argument tells you what part of the triangle is missing. 0 = left, 1 = top and 2 = right: triangle(2,a,b) = a^b triangle(1,a,c) = log base a of c triangle(0,b,c) = b root of c Altough that'd be harder to read for humans. Perhaps we could just write it the top way, and have computers internally write them as the second way.
@phoenixoutoftheash
@phoenixoutoftheash 6 жыл бұрын
L4Vo5 but that's exactly one of the points he dislikes about our current system (which I would choose over the triangles every time): text
@y.z.6517
@y.z.6517 5 жыл бұрын
@@L4Vo5 Performance? Parsing an extra function doesn't look good, if I need to call it a trillion times.
@L4Vo5
@L4Vo5 5 жыл бұрын
@@y.z.6517 The compiler could handle it since it'll already know which of the 3 functions to call
@y.z.6517
@y.z.6517 5 жыл бұрын
@@L4Vo5 Pre-compiling or meta-programming is a good idea. However, triangle() is a very bad function name, since coder may need to create a geometrical function called triangle(). I suggest ^(a,b,c). This is different from ^(a,b)=a^b
@aycfes2891
@aycfes2891 7 жыл бұрын
This feels so weird... I came up with essencialy the same concept last month .-.
@thistemba
@thistemba 7 жыл бұрын
essentially*
@XGD
@XGD 6 жыл бұрын
English has its own share of inconsistencies...
@jcavs9847
@jcavs9847 6 жыл бұрын
omg youre so smart!1!!
@ijbarraza
@ijbarraza 5 жыл бұрын
You should definitely make a video on examples using the triangle of power. Like doing operations and their counterpart in regular notation to show its power. I love the new approach!
@simoneversfield1523
@simoneversfield1523 2 жыл бұрын
I think this is the best idea for math I have ever seen. I always try and teach my kids physics from areas under graphs and I think this could be another tool in the shed.
@1997CWR
@1997CWR 8 жыл бұрын
Illuminati confirmed :D (Great video btw.)
@MyAce8
@MyAce8 7 жыл бұрын
Kind of on a side note: assuming we stick with the traditional notation, why ever use radicals instead of negative exponents, it's just confusing for no reason
@columbus8myhw
@columbus8myhw 7 жыл бұрын
You mean fractional exponents
@nathanbrown8680
@nathanbrown8680 7 жыл бұрын
And that's why. Fractional exponents make written expressions more difficult to read unambiguously unless you drown them in parenthesis which makes them overly busy and also difficult to read. In carefully type set expressions standing on their own line that's not the end of the world. In notes taken on paper with a pencil it's a complete and unmitigated disaster.
@zombiedude347
@zombiedude347 7 жыл бұрын
Using roots helps avoid ambiguity ³√(-1) = -1, but ⁶√(-1)² = 1. However, they are still not perfect. In the complex domain, you come up with other problems. ³√(-1) = (1 + i√3)/2, and ⁶√(-1)² = 1. In the reals, odd roots keep sign, even roots are always positive, and do not exist if the argument is negative In the complex, the roots are always the principle root (divide the complex angle measured from 0 to 2pi by the root for the new complex angle). It would really create the least confusion if only the complex variant was used. However, so many teachers act as if complex numbers don't exist except when teaching specifically about them. Then they ignore them again.
@Frightning
@Frightning 6 жыл бұрын
It doesn't help that historical motivation for developing complex numbers in the first case was due to the Casus Irreducibilis (literally: case irreducible), which occurs with certain Cubic polynomials and their general solution via Cardano's method, which is not taught in the standard curriculum at all, let alone before the introduction of complex numbers (and the process and resulting formula that leads to the relevant cases is quite complex). I only learned of Cardano's method and this historical motivation for developing complex numbers from reading wikipedia. And yet, we have real world applications for the seemly esoteric complex number system in the theory of electromagnetism from physics.
@Shadowsphere1
@Shadowsphere1 6 жыл бұрын
Radicals are good for cleaning up the expression. Turning radicals into fractional exponents is basically commonplace when doing integrals (since a cube root is a 1/3 power, converting it for the Power Rule gives you 4/3 which is a cube root of x^4... unless you can do them in your head)
@LuanFauth
@LuanFauth 5 жыл бұрын
this is such a great idea!!! although i have always been good at math, log was sometimes very difficult to get, and this makes so much sense
@julianaltschul4833
@julianaltschul4833 4 жыл бұрын
Maybe someone in the comments mentioned this already, but rather than trying to explain circle-plus as the sum of the reciprocals, it feels more in keeping with the patterns of adding and multiplying in different corners to explain circle plus as a combined multiplication/addition operation-- ab/(a+b)-- with a product in the numerator and the sum in the denominator. I'm definitely going to explore this idea with my Math Circle this summer where I don't think any of the students will have seen logarithms before. Thank you for showing us this, and for all the amazing work you do--my Linear Algebra classes adore your videos!
@leoliu2837
@leoliu2837 7 жыл бұрын
illuminati comfirmed
@rajr110
@rajr110 8 жыл бұрын
for someone whos already learnt this using conventional symbols, learning with this approach just seems unnecessarily abstract, I think even with shitty plain notation that doesn't tell you anything about the math, we tend to develop our own abstract conceptions of the core ideas, eg its obvious to be that logs are just another way to write the same thing, the notion is pretty irrelevant. You might end up having the oposite problem when math follows from the notation, and that is kids start thinking too much about notation rather than the underlying rules. I personally find it distracting to encode the math into the notation, because the notion is irrelevant, the rules and math dont stem from the notation.
@Ottmar555
@Ottmar555 4 жыл бұрын
I disagree. Notation can have a big impact on our proficiency. Just switching from roman to arabic numerals, allowed Europe's mathematical knowledge to really advance. The concepts are the same, but it's far easier to do them.
@L0j1k
@L0j1k 5 жыл бұрын
Suddenly, at 1:19, an intuition hit me. Epiphany! Thank you.
@matthewc7138
@matthewc7138 6 жыл бұрын
I love you for this. I've explained this frustration with notation to all of my students over the years :)
@SAURABHVERMA1
@SAURABHVERMA1 7 жыл бұрын
Do you realize you are making a 4th one to remember for students
@krillinslosingstreak
@krillinslosingstreak 7 жыл бұрын
I know, it also would be a problem to implement across countries with people who've been ingrained with the first three formulas throughout their life. It's honestly much better to stay with the normal three which can be used in with each other to solve problems more fluidly.
@YumekuiNeru
@YumekuiNeru 6 жыл бұрын
it just looks like one tbh it is just three times more complex than each of the others in isolation
@wyrmofvt
@wyrmofvt 6 жыл бұрын
And what about reading papers that already use the traditional notation? You have to learn the traditional notation, or the work of your predecessors will be closed to you.
@YumekuiNeru
@YumekuiNeru 6 жыл бұрын
you would have more luck getting people to use tau over 2pi than this
@JorgetePanete
@JorgetePanete 6 жыл бұрын
Saurabh Verma you forgot the question mark
@__nog642
@__nog642 7 жыл бұрын
Problem is, that's kind of hard to write inline.
@KohuGaly
@KohuGaly 7 жыл бұрын
yeah, it wastes space in a very bad way. Although complex formulas have more obvious pattern in them this way, they also grow in very asymmetric ways. This makes it very unintuitive when marshalling it into computer. I mean, fractions are bad enough, when they turn into monsters when written as (a*b*c)/(d*e*f).
@typo691
@typo691 7 жыл бұрын
"You could even just write it as: (2,3,•) = 8 (2,•,8) = 3 (•,3,8) = 2" You could follow this idea, originally made by "JNCressey"
@Mutantcy1992
@Mutantcy1992 7 жыл бұрын
There's no sense trying to write more complex math following the lines of notebook paper. How do you write summations inline?
@__nog642
@__nog642 7 жыл бұрын
Mutantcy1992 You just use taller lines for summations, or multiple lines, but it still follows a horizontal pattern.
@scathiebaby
@scathiebaby 7 жыл бұрын
that's why everyone will keep typing things like 2 ^ x even when this triangle symbol gets official a^x for forward operation a ^ (1/n) for nth root log x / log a for logarithm of x at base a
@michael18276
@michael18276 6 жыл бұрын
I have similar anxiety as you do at the end of the video: what we think is a good invention (in theory) never gets enough influence. However, you are always my inspiration against that anxiety. Thank you.
@Doug1943
@Doug1943 5 жыл бұрын
Once I realized how useful the so-called 'formula triangle' of physics was, in actually showing the relationship between multiplicatin and division, I started playing around with finding something similar for exponentiation -- the same idea, a form of notation/exposition that made the mathematics visual. [Yes, the 'formula triangle' can also be used in a rote way, which tries to substitute for understanding. But because something can be mis-used does not mean that it cannot also be used properly.] But ... exponentiation is not commutative, so there was no straightforward analogue to the 'formula triangle of multiplication/division'. But .... this does it!!!!!!!!! I absolutely agree that this should be proseletyzed among mathematics teachers. The great philosopher/mathematician Alfred North Whitehead said, " ... by the aid of symbolism, we can make transitions in reasoning almost mechanically by the eye, which otherwise would call into play the higher faculties of the brain. It is a profoundly erroneous truism, repeated by all copy-books and by eminent people when they are making speeches, that we should cultivate the habit of thinking of what we are doing. The precise opposite is the case. Civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking about them. " [ introtologic.info/AboutLogicsite/whitehead%20Good%20Notation.html -- the whole quote is worth reading.]
@LectiOpi
@LectiOpi 8 жыл бұрын
Sure, the triangle notation could help clear things up for students, but it makes expressing those concepts in higher-level math not very intuitive. Imagine a professional carpenter trying to use a plastic toy hammer to build his house. That's basically what this is.
@3blue1brown
@3blue1brown 8 жыл бұрын
To me, I think the reason this feels unintuitive at first is because I've spent all my life (well, minus the first few years) working with the traditional system, and all of my knowledge of higher-level math, of course, uses the traditional log-exp-rad notation. However, I genuinely think that if I had been taught to use this, that using it (or short-hands deriving from it) in higher math would actually be more intuitive than our current standard.
@miscibi
@miscibi 8 жыл бұрын
Suggesting that math notation needs an overhaul, takes courage. Dismissing it by saying that it would be like using toy hammers is just being lazy and ignorant. However, I'm not sure either that this exact way of doing it is the right way to go, but it is definitely a step in the right direction. The notation should be conducive to asking questions as he said in the video, and that's the big idea here. When you see a periodic table for instance, one of the first questions that pops up in your head is probably why does it have to stop at 118? Why are they grouped this way? What do they have in common? What's periodic about it? But I think the coolest/craziest thing about it has been through history where although no one knew for sure that a certain element existed (what if there are "proton gaps" in nature and you can't just assume a linear progression of the number of protons for each atomic number?) they could still get curious about it seeing that elements on either side of it in the table had been discovered and probably even guess what properties this new element should have based on where it "should" be inserted in the table. The periodic table, too, probably needs rethinking, but you get the point. A more general theme would be that notations are much more than a way of recording or doing calculations. They are a way of thinking. Most of the innovation in chemistry and material science has come from the fact that people started using the "atomic" way of thinking about things, instead of saying everything is earth water fire wind etc. The idea that everything we see in nature has just been naturally occurring compositions, begs the question what if you put the atoms together this other way? It is however quite natural that math has evolved this way and it is by no means a "mistake" or whatever that we've been doing it this way. In the beginning of any field, people are too busy finding out where things lead and what properties something or some idea has and what consequences it would have, that they don't have the patience/perspective/or even time to explore new notations. Feynman had famously his own symbols in the beginning but he had to give it up for the sake of practicality and mostly collaboration with others. It takes several intellectual/conceptual generations (not necessarily human generations) to get a good enough feel for the whole thing to start wondering whether the notations have been good enough. This is what essentially happened to programming and computing. In the beginning they were literally called machine instructions and you'd be mostly focused on telling the computer how to calculate things. This is analogous to the current mathematical notation. But as time went on, people came up with the object oriented and functional way of programming and programming languages started to become ways of thinking more than ways of instructing the machines directly. Hence higher level . I suspect that the same will be true of math, if it would still have a place when we have stronger AI assistants that would maybe make math irrelevant all together. Its notations, too, would evolve into more than one way of expressing your way of thinking and ultimately new sets of mathematical languages. There would then be something similar to the compiler for these different languages in order to convert them to more so called low level representations (which would be our current notation) where it would also try to pick the most efficient way of translating an expression (in the triangle notation for instance or more advanced ones) in the new language back to the lower level one (since as these newer languages evolve, they tend to abstract more and more nitty-gritty things about ways of calculating things) and this way keep everyone happy including the past people who have put so much work into math, using the low level language. This actually makes me think of a question... What if physics', math's and programming languages' way of expressing relationships and notations ultimately converges to a single language that could represent all these ideas and make thinking in each of them just as "easy" and inviting to questions and new ideas. What if these are all specific instances of a more general concept in the world that we're missing? Everything in the universe ultimately comes down to stuff that exist (= data) and the way they could change and interact with each other (= a set of operations on the data.) So maybe it wouldn't be so crazy to think that physics, math and programming are just different applications of the same underlying concept. Please let me know, anyone, if there has been more work done on the questions towards the end of my thoughts above. Thanks btw for making and sharing the clip. It's a great habit to get into. ;) Very nice to see that there are people out there curious enough to work on math on this deep level.
@jayrajganatra8782
@jayrajganatra8782 8 жыл бұрын
+miscibi that was such an excellent comment. very insightful!
@peppybocan
@peppybocan 8 жыл бұрын
Again a pragmatic point of view: Having a triangle and a superscript and subscript in one line with the text will break the line spacing. When you deal with mathematical papers the improper spacing between lines will suck to read. Sorry but log(x) and n-th root of y can be easily squeezed into one line without having a different space between them.
@MrSaigot
@MrSaigot 8 жыл бұрын
The old notation is also more useful for programming/typing in ASCII . The old notation still has it's place, but I don't see why both can't exist, similar to how students are usually taught both leibniz and Lagrange's notation when learning calculus.
@JNCressey
@JNCressey 8 жыл бұрын
Just write it in display mode rather than inline mode.
@Kissaki0
@Kissaki0 8 жыл бұрын
Did you ever read a mathematical paper? Or physics or computer algorithms for that matter. I think all of them put formulas into separate lines already, because they do /not/ fit into normal text. Just take a look at the Wikipedia article for "Integral" and you’ll see what I mean.
@peppybocan
@peppybocan 8 жыл бұрын
Kissaki of course I do. Yes, but when you want to pinpoint something about logarithm or the power, writing putting that triangle into the line will increase the line size whereas classical notation is pretty much made for "inlining"... just look at the thumbnail and compare that cubic root sign to the triangle... or the power... it's a waste of space.
@JNCressey
@JNCressey 8 жыл бұрын
Peter Bočan, using superscripts to the right for powers and superscripts to the left with the root symbol for roots already makes those two kinda look like miniature versions of the triangle. So we could just make log look more like it does in the triangle, something like 2Λ8 to mean log_2(8). Then all three will have an inline version that looks kinda like the large triangle version. 2Λ8=3 2³=8 ³√8=2
@gargic651
@gargic651 6 жыл бұрын
This channel is the reason I wake up excited about math
@JohnKramer913
@JohnKramer913 6 жыл бұрын
Found this video before returning to school for engineering, I now use it all the time. I've been sharing it with every one of my teachers.
@pairot01
@pairot01 7 жыл бұрын
No no no no no no no. This triangle is another way of writting an exponential equation, not an operation. There is no way of doing calculus with these, they aren't even functions!
@TheBlehBlehBleh
@TheBlehBlehBleh 7 жыл бұрын
You can consider it as a function of the two corners that are filled out, that evaluates to the one that is missing. I don't see what's stopping you from doing calculus with it
@pairot01
@pairot01 7 жыл бұрын
It can't be a function, it has an implied ' = ', you can't graph this
@TheBlehBlehBleh
@TheBlehBlehBleh 7 жыл бұрын
For example imagine the triangle with e in the bottom left, x at the top, and the bottom right blank. Would that not represent to you e^x? If you wanted to make it explicit that it was indeed a function of x, you could write f(x) = or use the shorthand notation here kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qbt8lJx9yJrUk58.html On the other hand if all three corners of the triangle are filled out, then I agree there is an implicit `=`. I don't see myself using the notation in that way though (the dual meaning makes me uncomfortable, but maybe it's just cause I'm not used to it)
@pairot01
@pairot01 7 жыл бұрын
TheBlehBlehBleh Well, that's one roundabout way of doing it, not elegant at all. It also becomes confusing when you are adding or multiplying different triangles. It tries to solve one problem no one is having by creating a million others.
@TheBlehBlehBleh
@TheBlehBlehBleh 7 жыл бұрын
It is not clear to me what these problems are. The whole triangle (together with its two filled out corners) is just an expression like any other. It might have variables in it, it might not. If it does have variables, they may be fixed or they may vary, just like in any other expression. You may make independent/dependent variables explicit it is a function by saying f(x) = ..., just like any other expression. To add or multiply you put the expressions side by side like any other. I've yet to find a use case where this makes things more ambiguous or complicated.
@Pikachulova7
@Pikachulova7 7 жыл бұрын
your videos and transtions are amazing
@elltwo8393
@elltwo8393 4 жыл бұрын
People actually do use that alternate function notation that you put at the start. f(x)=y is the same as x |--> y with an f on top the arrow. This is especially prevalent in old analysis and topology texts.
@Tundra1428
@Tundra1428 7 жыл бұрын
Well I'm sold. This is a much much better way to look at things. Thanks for the content.
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