A discussion about drum triggers. Drummers who use triggers are cheating... Wait, WHAT!? Why are people so adamant and quick to say this? That’s a pretty bold statement. Join me in discussion as I go over the reasons why Triggering is NOT cheating.

Triggering a sample hides your weaknesses. Truth is truth. Playing the instrument the way it was designed to be played reveals your every weakness.

Drum videos without drums are cheating.

When people realize triggers showcase your weaknesses, not enhance your playing, we'll all sleep a little easier. lol ~ Great video, Cam.

It's not about cheating, it's about that stupid clicking sound and the lack of dynamics. And you're right, it is a question of ego: you use triggers because you want every single note of yours to be heard. And you need that because you want to show off your skills by playing flashy technical frills. So instead of adjusting your technique to make better music, you sterilize the music so that you can be more self-indulgent with your playing. It's pointless.

I don't take "trigger-using" drummers too serioulsy, especially when they have a monsterous acoustic kit and every single drum has a trigger. There CAN be cases where triggers can be useful, like: - Living in an apartment, can't make too much noise. - You set out to create absurd fast music that no one can play (Don't know why but you do what you want) - Early songwriting (Cant think of any other atm) But mostly, Its more impressive to see a drummer play on an acoustic kit because not everyone has the technique to make the kit sound huge and still play fast. Whilst using triggers isn't impressive because: - You are not hearing the sound of a real drum in a real room with real mics, you are just hearing samples. (Anyone can add samples, not everyone can make a snare drum sound amazing) - You don't know if the drummer is actually playing everything you hear (Drum covers exclude this reason for both real and triggers) - You can't hear a drummer's technique too well (He can program his snare to be very sensitive where he can tap on it and make it sound huge) - There's barely any life to samples (I love 66Samus but I wish he'd start recording his actual fucking drums and stop using boring samples on his kick and snare in all of his videos. Fuck, he always has the snare mic'ed. Sure he says he "blends them", but at that point, why use samples at all?) As for the argument for the kick drum dynamics, I use Drum Leveler to equalize the hits in software. It's not cheating, it only turns them up, it isn't enhancing the hit itself, only the volume. If I hit the kick softly, it would still sound weak but it would be audible. So technique is still required otherwise we will still hear the weak hits. For demos, sure use triggers. But for final professional mixes for albums that you will SELL for others to buy with their hard earned money? No, I want to hear the drummer.

I dont know what many of my local drummers drum kits sound like in studio, because they all sound the same due to triggers and sampling. Their go pro live drum cams have little to no kick, because its triggered and they aren't concentrating on what their bass drum or drums, really sound like. I hit hard, primarily thrash. I am proud to have a loud and distinct snare, and kick drum sound. I want people to hear my playing, feel it. Feel the warmth, dynamic, and power of my kick drum, and what I use to hit it. I will never get that sound or feel with triggers and/or samples, because it is not me. It's a machine.

Totally agree. I have no idea what people hate triggers. If you think about it, keyboards are 88 triggers for your fingers.

Speaking of drum triggers for death metal, what drum triggers do you use?

If using drum triggers is cheating, then so is using pick-ups on your guitar lol. Neither one is making you better at the instrument, the just amplify your note.

"Music is not a competition". I needed to hear this today. Thanks man

What is the music in the end of the video

You can achieve a normal “click” sound by simply adding a rack Tom mic on the batter side aiming at where the pedals hit the head.

I use triggers on my bass drum with my band. I used to not want to but I appreciate them now. For one, we’re very loud and don’t have a full mic setup. Two we play fast (not super fast around 230 bpm) but when not using triggers my bass drum sounds like “rumbling” and not distinct hits. And for three, I actually think triggers are harder in some situations. For example, there’s a song that even if my timing is off slightly it sounds better NOT triggered whereas when I play that song with the bass drum triggered I have to be extra careful to play clean and get those hertaz to sound accurate because the triggers make every mistake so obvious. The only downside to playing with triggers is when I’m playing slow parts ans grooves but then again blending a real mic over the triggers could fix that issue. And finally triggers will never make you able to play something you can’t play. It’s either you can play it or you can’t. I’m a real hard hitter also and have broken bass drum skins multiple times. If I played in a slower band I wouldn’t use them and everything would sound fine but the question is why would you NOT use them when blasting double bass at faster speeds?

When people say that drum triggers are cheating it's complete nonsense to me, because there is no such thing as cheating in music in my opinion, music is an art not a game, but it does make sense to say that it is less skillful, but when people are going as far as to saying it's cheating doesn't make sense to me. whenever i'm playing at tempos 250 to 260 and above i can barely hear my bass drum and it's also really difficult to hear if i'm playing single strokes precisely and drum triggers made things so much easier for me. But anyways great video man! so far i'm loving your content keep it up, cheers!

My personal problem with triggers is that they rob the drums of dynamics. They make sense for bass drums most of the time, especially since you already can't get anywhere near the dynamic range on them as the rest of the set. But, I really hate when the snare and toms are triggered. Take Samus 66, for instance. I love his playing and he's extremely talented, but I hate the way his drums sound. But is he cheating? Hell no.

This is hilarious! Once I discovered triggering, I sought this video out knowing it had to exist. The only thing I could think a drummer being called out on for using triggers, was if they had set one velocity for each individual stroke, thus masking any dynamic inconsistencies (which is what Ive been hearing mostly but Im new to this too).. Rhythmic inconsistencies however, are slightly more audibly apparent, but I might get on a drummers case if they were input quantizing their blast beats lol.. Either way, your engineer is going to put your kicks on the grid in the final mix. Even your solid takes get edited, if youre mixing for that pro sound. I say embrace MIDI. My fav line from this was "Music is not a competition."

Hi Cameron, first of all, a realy good topic and yes it's me again, the german guy :D Have you checked Tobias Schuler? If you have, you know that he plays really fast. I had the pleasure to mix his band "Fuck You And Die" at my venue and he also uses triggers at his kick. For me as a live mixing dude it's really cool to have a drummer with triggers because, espacially in hard conditions of the room (for example tiles on the wall), you don't have to struggle this hard with re-bouncing frequencies and this stuff. You can archieve a similar effect with a boundary microfone which I also like to use a lot. Keep up the good work, really enjoying your videos :)

I know this is an older vid, Im all cool with kick triggers, I just bought a snare trigger to blend with the acoustic mic sound in my home studio. And even though in my eyes I'm just "cheating" mixing and mastering time/costs till I learn more. I feel hella guilty about it. It's a goofy feeling for sure lol

Triggers totally showcase your weaknesses and the one using them must very precise. The thing with triggers for me is that, yeah there is no way to play loud and powerful at 280 bpm and the triggers should be used in those situations. Slower than that, i feel the need to hear the dynamics, to hear the human element in the music, and most importantly i prefer feeling the boom than just a clicky sound trough the PA, because it is just a clicky sound and that boom and moving air is what drums should be all about. I must agree with Glenn Fricker in this type of discussions. But like i said, triggers have their use and is definitely harder to play with them, i know because i´ve used them. Great Video, Cheers!

I owe you a beer for setting it straight like this. Cheers bud!

Well, I don't think they're 'cheating' but it doesn't sound good to me most of the time. Unless they're using an obvious electronic, or otherwise non-traditional sounding drum sound, metal triggered drums sound like plastic food storage containers.

saying triggers are cheating devices is saying a guitar should sound like an acoustic. thats the most simple way of saying so (which i totally do agree with, all that distortion is just rubbish!)

You dont want to quantize because the human performance is lost but replacing the sound you produce by a sample in a trigger does not compromise the human element of drumming? Hm. And I dont think any metal drummer has dynamic sensitivity in their triggerred Bassdrums. :D

You're right. I mix metal all the time and I'm still yet to find a drummer that can make all hits sound even on the bass drum at super fast speeds. When I look at the stems really close when mixing, i can actually see the difference between the hits on a fast double bass part, and usually the hits that come from the left leg of the player, most of times is half of the size of the right leg hit, Or the opposite if the drummer is lefty.

I like using trigger on the kick for two reasons. 1 is to not have to use two mics and dick around with eq and blending them every time we play live or record. 2, is consistency. Same sound no matter the venue or sound tech. Now, that being said, we use our own sample we made of our drummers kick. We used my custom 1x12 guitar speaker in front of the kick for the low end, and flipped the phase in the daw(no need to re wire speakers or cables). And a 57 inside pointing at the beater to get the click. Some eq filters and compression and boom! Kick ass kick sound every night! And, I get to use my guitar cab for my guitar lol Sensitivity setting on the tm2 is set low enough to not get double triggers but high enough to get dynamics. But let’s be honest, we are playing metal, how dynamic do you really need the kick to be? Should be slamming every hit.

We are in 2018 and i think people realized/accepted the answer, there is no longer a reason to answer this question. However nowadays the new topic is what you started to mention, quantizing and editing, which is an important topic especially for drummers. It's a large question but basically i don't think it's cheating but as you said, it's lying. And it's mostly because majority of listener don't give a fuck about the performance but they're focusing mostly on the music itself. Well i don't think it's bad, but as a musician it's very easy to hear if the drum is quantized or too much edited. And i prefer when it's not (or not too much) Ho and by the way concerning trigger, i will now use my Roland kick pad on stage, i don't really give a damn shit about what people think and i believe the audience don't really give a shit too as long as they enjoy the show

I'm sloppy as shit with or without triggers. LOL. It's also like saying play guitar without distortion :D

Triggers aren't cheating in and of themselves. If you're using them to do creative stuff like convert an acoustic kit into a MIDI controller, then they are very useful. Especially if you incorporate things like a Malletkat and Mandala Pads into your setups. I'll admit that since I came up as a Jazz drummer I'm a bit snobby about my drum tone and I can't stand to use triggered sounds if at all possible unless I specifically want something that blends in a more digital drum sound. Then again, I'm one of the only metal drummers that uses coated heads, wood hoops and almost no moongel. I had my endorser Liberty put an internal mute on my snare specifically to avoid that and give me control. Another thing people (even producers) don't consider with triggers is that you can use the electronic signal generated by the device upon impact to power a volume booster/regulator on your bass drum signal and EQ it straight from a DAW rather than just using a sampled sound. In other words: specifically timed volume boosts to your natural bass drum sound.

Well, I think of triggering as cheating kinda like playing electric guitar through a distorted amp would, of course, also be cheating....

Most producers these days like to quantize and sample replace drums even so that it sounds MASSIVE and amazing production wise so that they get more business. It's rare they will let a sloppy performance get through.

Everything you said is totally true ! Good video Cameron !

I have no problem with triggers, but I really dislike when the bass drum is mixed with the velocity maxed out throughout the whole album or song to the point where it’s painfully obvious. Hearing the dynamics of double bass pedals is a really awesome feeling and it give it a very human characteristic.

Personally I think people use triggers for tone more so than performance. Some people love the feel of an acoustic kit but just don't know how to get a good drum tone. So they use triggers to ease their way into a good drum sound.

Great vid. The more knowledge one have, the less room for ego there is. I remember George Kollias saying something like that some years ago, "You can't play at 220 bpm without triggers and have people hear what you're doing" . Also, I'm happy to inform that this happened: imgur.com/FJnn4kv

Anyone who thinks triggers are cheating knows nothing about triggers

triggers have magical powers to make you play better, thats why i always keep one in my pocket when i play

Your bassdrum will just sound like a bunch of low-end at 260+

From the POV of a studio guy and having played in a band; Triggers have there place, so does good mic placement and making sure the whole damn band can play the song at tempo. EDIT: that's not a criticism one thing I've learned.

It's really an argument about the beater hitting the head off a rebound when the drummer doesn't mean to and it sounds intentional and the strike value sounds just as much as the original hit thus making it sound as if the drummer is intentionally playing the second strike when actually it's just a rebound hit. Think of delay on a guitar. If you have the feedback high the delayed note is just as strong as the first note making it sound like he's playing twice as fast than what he's actually playing.

yeah... the greats of the past never needed triggers. so no; i will never use triggers.

It is like to say electric guitar player who uses active pick up is a cheater? Lol Triggers are the same as active pickup. It is just something that creates a tone and no means will make you play great or as machines, they will just modify your tone.

I cheat! haha jk. It's true that if you don't play with good time and tight it's very noticeable. I have seen sloppy drummers use triggers and it sounded terrible. My only pet peeve is when the sound guy assumes because you trigger he needs to turn it to 11 in the FOH mix though.. Sometimes it's just TOO much. Especially with that many kick drums being hit in the sets I play lol

If triggers are cheating, then so is anyone who plays an electronic kit. I've recorded at 240 bpm without triggers and it just sounded like one note, like a truck driving past.

i used to hate triggers, then i was forced to move to an electric kit and i learnt do appreciate them.

I love this idea that you can take someone who can't play drums, put them behind an electronic kit, and suddenly they're Bonham. It's absurd, and yet has persisted for decades. Sure, you can record hits via midi and use a program to make 1 note into many notes. But, what point does that serve? Can't play live or make a cover, the second you do everyone will see you've actually cheated.

I don’t think triggers are cheating, I use them myself for clarity and volume during live performances. However, there is some merit to the feeling that trigger ABUSE allows some drummers to be shall we say...disingenuous. I.e. double stroke bass drum players that crank the sensitivity and scoop dynamics. I won’t go so far as to say this is cheating, but it’s definitely intentionally misleading and borderline fraudulent. Good rule of thumb, would you be impressed by sound the drummer created on an acoustic kit WITHOUT triggers? If so Then it’s not cheating (ex Derek Roddy, krimh, kevin paradis etc.). Now compare that to 90% of the double stroke crowd and be honest, there’s a reason you never hear these guys play a note without triggers...because it sounds like nothing close. They can’t replicate their parts acoustically, not only in terms of volume which is fair because volume is always the biggest issue, but they can’t replicate the power or consistency. There are maybe a handful of exceptions to this rule but in general we all know who this applies to (not naming any names). So in closing, if triggers are there to solve a volume and clarity issue...legit. If they are solving a volume and clarity issue in addition to embellishing power and consistency....you miiiiight be a little dishonest about your abilities.

Just reading this comments I can tell no one knows who chris turner is from OAA. Man plays fast and techy and never uses triggers.

Fuck yeah! Thx Bro

I trigger my acoustics to the pa for perfect sound balance. Cry i guess.

Let's agree to disagree on this one! I'll keep watching your videos nonetheless \m/

250+ w/o triggers would sound like this: Brrrrrrrrrr

Say that in the drum line! You're not a cheater you just suck!..... Well unless your playing techno!/

Love it

No dynamics, that is all.

Autotune enhances singing. Triggers enhance bass drum......

Well Fuckin put Mr

This video triggered me

I dont have a problem with triggers, i understand why death metal bands (espesialy techDeath bands) use them. But objectively their cheating.

It's not really about cheating or not, it just sounds like shit to me and artificial in thrash/death bands. Overproduced. It's the equivalent for me to junk food stuffed with preservatives. I want drums to sound like drums.

Triggering is cheating. End.

Who fucking cares if you don't know how to tune or mic your own motherfucking instrument in order for it to be audible at Death Metal tempos. That's on you. Play the instrument good or bad instead of pretending to. This is Metal, not Pop.