Just remember to not feel too bad about taking a while to solve something! Its important to remember that even on day 1 releases of content every group is going to have a full 8 people giving input and trying to solve the mechanic, managing to do diamond blind with only 2 people figuring it out is still a huge accomplishment :)

Bless the people who were willing to play this as you two try to figure out the mechanics blind - those people have the patience of a saint. Also, I love that you guys even managed to make your own custom addons during the fight. Those drawings will definitely be useful later on.

We Final Fantasy XIV players may not be able to: count, listen to more than bomb-ass music, or generally pay attention, but we can dress well and do leave beautiful corpses.

On limit cut: It was in A11 - Cruise Chaser, the one with the quick time event where he transforms into a giant ship and also has a mogstation mount? Yeah, that one, and the "limit cut" you see was only in savage. It became more in popular use around regular raiders after its usage in The Epic of Alexander ultimate encounter, where limit cut again appeared and was the bane of existence for most groups for whom TEA was their first ultimate. Since then, any mechanic that assigns 1 - 8 numbers with those little red/blue dots above your head has been deemed "limit cut".

I'm not big on the extremes (back in my WOW days holy PLD raiding felt like banging my head against a brick wall and I just can handle that kinda stress anymore) but this video made me actually UNSTRESSED and laugh/cackle my butt off. Thank you for that.

Fun Facts! So yes, a lot of the terminology is based on the first time it's seen in a fight, which is why some of the older folk refer to donuts as Dynamo, large blue player-marked aoes are Defamation, and numbers over everyone's heads is Limit Cut. But... the really funny part about that is that Limit Cut should be called Alpha Sword or Super Blassty Charge: In A11s (Alexander 11 Savage), the Cruise Chaser would cast Limit Cut as a self buff, increasing its own damage. THEN, without a cast bar, numbers would appear over everyone and the boss would do damage with the actual attack: alternating Alpha Sword and Super Blassty Charge. People associated Limit Cut with the numbers, but that same boss would cast Limit Cut again later for another damage buff WITHOUT another round of numbers, and later bosses also cast Limit Cut without numbers as well. The actual Limit Cut cast, which we now use as a name for Numbers/Dots mechanics, actually had nothing to do with it.

I learned the Limit Cut numbers in savage, where they turn up pretty often. If they're going 1-8, the way I remember to read it is that even numbers are red and odd numbers are blue, and 5 and 8 are pretty easy to spot. I don't even bother trying to count 6 and 7 - if it's a bunch of dots, and they're blue, it's 7, or they're red, in which case it's either 6 or 8.

I think it's a really interesting contrast in how much general game/mechanic knowledge helps to progress when doing blind prog. I did this fight blind on day one with a fully blind group, and we cleared it in less than a lockout (less than 90 minutes). Not because we were inherently better players or anything, but because we all had prior knowledge about how all the different mechanics and indicators in this fight work (from doing other fights), and this fight didn't really bring anything complicated to the table that hadn't already been seen before. I will praise FFXIV's fight design on this. The indicators are consistent. They may not make much sense at a glance without prior knowledge, but now that you've seen and worked with that "chasing puddle" indicator, for example, you'll know how it works for every other fight. And I think that gaining this knowledge and bringing it to bear against content blind is some of the most fun I've had in general in this game. It becomes more of a "solving a puzzle" situation and less of a "react on the fly" situation. Props to you both for blind progging these fights as a two-man team instead of an 8-man team, and without all the extra knowledge that comes from having dealt with these mechanics for 5-10 years already. --- I wrote up an explanation for how those chasing puddles work for a friend that I can reply with if wanted. Does not contain any fight spoilers or anything, it's a really generic explanation. Also, it might be useful in the future to do a run through the fight on Normal again right before doing the Extreme version, and watching the boss model for the visual tells for mechanics rather than watching the actual ground AoE markers and such.

One of the top Extremes in this Game in my Opinion. Amazing Fight, Great Arena, Music and super fun Blind. The Fight has such a great flow when everything works out.

Watching you guys chug through this was my second favorite Extreme to watch! Hades will always just be special to me

"Limit cut" makes more sense being colored the way that it is because the graphics were designed for a mechanic where the boss would do different things to you if you were an odd or even number. Maybe they reused it for Flood Ray because they wanted to hint to be on different platforms, as the platforms themselves also have blue and red trim if you look closely. They counted to 4 ok using 4 blades on Ravana, but even Ruby Weapon Extreme dropped comets numbered 1 to 8 using the same weird layout that Limit Cut and Flood Ray use. Seems they settled on some kind of shape-based counting notation: 1 (dot), 2 (flat line), 3 (triangle), 4 (square), 5 (dot square), 6 (triangle triangle), 7 (triangle square), 8 (square square). Maybe they felt using existing numbering systems like playing cards wouldn't be a good idea because they might not be well known in some regions? Or that using one wouldn't fit a boss' theme sometimes. Anyways, had fun watching, I love that you have a death chart, can't wait to see you guys count to 48 when he shows up for a rematch in Bozja

Honestly, I never noticed the weirdness of the dots after 4. Also the kazoo ending was perfect.

It truly takes guts to go in completely blind of the older content for extremes in general, so I think there is absolutely a lot of kudos that need to be given to everyone who was there for all those hours. Diamond Weapon is one of the best extremes as well for Shadowbringers. Also I’m glad you guys now understand how painful Limit Cuts are, trust me it only gets worse in some places.

I went through something similar to what you guys did when I first did hard content after transferring from wow. There's tons of learning you need to do, but once you've seen the basics once you get better at it. I hope you eventually do savage content. Grats on the clear!

Limit Cut before you figure it out: "This is the WORST mechanic" Limit Cut after you figure it out: "This is the BEST mechanic"

To be fair, I don't think they're ment to have the signs over your head all the time. Also the button you hold to turn off names (by default X) hides those signs to make it easier to see numbers.

Great video (as always!) You mentioned this, but one thing you will see more and more as you get into (specifically savage) raiding is what my raid leader calls "body counts" = mechanics that you only survive if all 8 are alive. It makes for some interesting fights when they stack things like that, but I believe its a fair balance for our "on demand" battle rez system.

Genuinely impressed that you guys managed to clear it at all in a single session! When I was in a savage raid static, even with guides we'd never clear on the first weekly run; that's just how learning the dance goes. Feels so good when you get it right, though!

Petition for Full Kazoo version of Ultima (The PRIMALS), you had at the end.

Diamond EX was my first on content extreme, and kicked off my love for ex trials. Was super cool to see you guys do this fight! One of my favorites.

When you got here I'm like "oh no Kyle's not going to blink again 😂". Very wholesome that you and your community spend hours trying to clear ❤️

Kyle there a couple names for what you described " A mechanic that occurs right after completing a previous mechanic that checks if you did it right". The one I like to use is "body check" because it basically demands a minimum number of alive bodies to beat or in stricter body checks they require everyone alive. Also "limitcut"/Flood Ray is a mechanic that you will want to remember, but I do agree with Garret about the number symbols and the player marks overlapping is very obnoxious

12:55 "Observe the Diagram!"~ There's a version of that meme with the little Diamond Weapon drawing in the middle in the GG Discord.

Kyle, your diagonal edge vs corner confusion does a lot to explain all the 4e book on your back shelf.

Limit Cut was a mechanic from Alexander 11 Savage, and FF14 raiders tend to latch on to the name of the first mechanic they see that has a particular execution. You'll hear people call donut AOEs "dynamos" occasionally because of Second Coil.

Had fun watching! Your party had the chance to give clues but they really held back this time which made it more entertaining lol We need more videos like this, not just giving away the how-tos but actually showing why such choices had to be made. Could help convince people try harder content

This one is my favorite of this series, and watching you two solve it was really, really fun. And I enjoyed this recap! You have some really great extremes coming up, and I look forward to watching you take them on! :D

Limit Cut: First found in A11S (alex savage), and also early in SHB in ultimate, TEA by the same name..... 8 ordered markers above players heads. What the attack actually does can be different. And Garrett, you are 1000% correct about the marker covering Limit Cut, FIX IT SE!

It is Paradoxically easier to do fights blind if there are more ppl blind with you and willing to try and figure things out for the most part.

Oh flood rays, i didn't make the stream but when you said you were gonna do it i knew this would be an issue. Fascinating what exactly was sticking. Notably, trailing aoe's are not new. You've personally run into them like 3 times, never understood them mind you but that's not Diamonds fault. I am so glad you got the W, make the suffering worth it. But yeah, if you can blind run Diamond then no EX is beyond you gays, bravo.

Its fun to watch you learn all this fight Language. The good this is this is 95% consistant with all future fights so its something you will pick up easily in future EXs/Savages!

as they say: Flawless, First try Ez, GG

This is actually one of my favorite Extremes. I really didn't do them -at- level or anything until I was considering what to do for Endwalker. My friend group had reconfigured a couple times and I wound up wanting whole-heartedly to Tank for Endwalker (Cecil, I love you, Paladin 4Life) because Final Fantasy IV. So, while I was doing the double edged sword of clearing out my Triple Triad log for the special mount, I started doing Extremes (The Weapons require at least 1 clear of each to get the card I need). And So, I started joining Party Finders to clear the weapons. I was also doing this as Paladin, and having *not* been the Tank for most of my time playing, I fortunately found a saint among the players (My Co-tank who was EVER so patient with me) and taught me about Tank Swaps and everything on the fly. We are still friends in game and this is what made me fall in love with Tanking :) Diamonds are a girls best friend ;) Long story short, I am now a Tank and Diamond weapon made me what I am. As someone who regularly runs Mount Farms for my FC, I've also had to teach a lot of these mechanics to new players even when doing their OP cousins and not having to deal with some of this.

i want to see them doing the LC1 from P9S so bad

I do still want to see you guys go back to original extremes just to see how much the game has changed. Also going back to not having full kits will be amusing

This was one of the first EX's i ever did day 1, took me like 4 hours with my FC at the time. Was pretty fun but exhausting even with watching a clear guide and having decent gear, so this one brings back some.... interesting memories lol. Still a pretty good one all things considered

To be fair you guys did better and picked up on certain mechanics much better than I did when first jumping into this Extreme

Floodray is one of those that is really scary on your first bossfight using it, but the community has standardised its solution

Often limit cut mechanics involve an important split between 1-4 and 5-8 in some way, so a lot of people feel very strongly that the 6 limit cut marker should be 4 + 2. That was you can see the 4 box do you know you're in round 2, and then 2 dots so you know you're position 2 in the second round.

I knew while watching you prog that Flood Ray would be the big obstacle, but I didn't realize just *how* big. Seeing you stick to the 'three positions and one swap per platform' strategy was hilariously frustrating, but it was satisfying to see you finally clear! Diamond Weapon holds a special place in my heart because it was the current EX when I first got into Extreme trials. Others have been more interesting, easier, or harder, but I'll always have a soft spot for my memories trying to get the hang of figuring out the patterns for Auri Arts. So this was perhaps the most fun I've had watching you learn a fight! Kudos for the good work.

You guys are awesome!! Diamond kills plenty even unsynced!

Hey, I learned a lot through watching your multiple attempts as you slowly put the mechanics together. It's actually got me itching to do Ex's again and maybe do some mount farming, though actually getting into them is the hard part.

AAAAA my graphs made it in to the video~! aaaaaaaaaaaa

Perhaps it comes up in this video, but Normal versions of fights tend to have the same tells as EX. His shoulders light up before the spread mechanic starts, it's just the normal version also shows you how to spread by putting markers on your head. But you can gleam a good bit of info from a normal fight in terms of what the EX will likely have you do.

I'm pretty sure the reason why the limit cut 6 is looks like that is purely to make it visually distinct from 8

One thing about the fight is that if you know the markers then it is significantly easier. Knowing what the chase markers are as well as limit cut indicators makes a big difference as those mechanics are almost always handled the same way each time they appear. I know you complained about the way they show the indicators for flood ray, but they are designed that way to be able to be read as fast as possible. Thats why the odds and evens are not just diggerent colors, but different colors, why 5 and 6 are shaped so strange, so that once you recognize the basic pattern youll recognize it faster. Get used to those dots btw. They really like that mechanic and they dont stop showing up. To help see them btw you can hold X (or whatever you bound hide nameplates to) to only show the dots above your head.

I would love nothing more than having a full group of people like Kyle and Garrett to all do it blind. I would. I haven't done any of this stuff. But I suck! Lol.

12:30 It's been a while since I last ran this, but I believe we had everyone in the middle of each platform, and only the next number in that space would move to the corner, and move back once the attack went off. And we did it 1-2 on one plat. then 3-4 on the other, so we had enough time to swap around. It's a dance. Takes coordination, but once you have it, it's a done deal.

13:00 - 15: 30 Looking at your planning sheet is honestly awe-inspiring, figuring out and iterating on imperfect strategy is such a huge fun factor for this game's raid it is unfortunate the majority of the playerbase will likely never have the chance to explore it. I'm honestly kind envious of you. But yeah, your channel had been consistently the most intriguing FF14 channel I come across over the years and it never failed to bring a smile to me listening to your guys just talking about your experiences and having fun in this game. Really looking forward to your guys journey across EW！

I love that this scarred you so much, you had to make a dedicated video to it

I'm here to defend the LC marker's design! Yes, 5 and 6 might look super weird but I argue they are very easily recognizable. Even without counting the dots, the general shape of each number is completely different. 1 is a dot, 2 is a line, 3 is a pyramid, 4 is a square, 5 is... I don't know how to describe it but you can't argue it's pretty distinct from the others, 6 is the base of a pyramid, 7 scares me, and 8 is a rectangle. That plus the fact odds are blue and evens are pink make it very easy to identify rapidly which number you got without the need to count at all. That said, the fact marks can hide those lil shits is truly a sin. When I was to heal, learning to read the LC markers under that stupid 1 or 2 was one of the hardest parts. And even after all this time I still have a hard time telling if it's a 2 or a 4 under that stupid marker.

Good insight on the limit cut markers

I am fully with you Garrett on the markers. For a lot of fights I simply don't bother with signs because they can hide stuff like limit cut numbers.

I think we all agree Garret's point about the Limit Cut markers going underneath the same spot as the player manual markers... The number of times I, or members of the various statics I've been in, have ranted about that is too damn high! Other than that - I loved this Extreme! Very satisfying flow to it once it runs smoothly. (And 2x token reward at the end was a nice present)

FWIW, some of the pain points here (limit cut, the chase-y circles) are things you're kinda expected to have seen and will see again, so they won't be as bad in whatever future extremes you might do that they show up in. Doing fights like diamond aren't super bad blind once you know how the secret of how XIV mechanics "typically" work out in ex/savage content.

That a video i didnt think i needed or wanted to a kind of video i really want now and need. Damm it was fun to watch ur recap

Flood Ray/Limit Cut mechanics haunt my dreams every time I see one in a fight.

This Extreme is on par some of the easier savages, big props on doing the extreme blind. Perhaps we see you both in savages once we see you catch up.

Ohohohoho knowing which extremes you'll be tackling next brings me so much glee. God I cannot wait!

I agree about the limit cut numbers, as a healer people often put a marker on me when the fight contains a limit cut and I have to remove it cuz I can’t see !!

I like how the death chart is a perfect illustration of tank privilege!

Some of the normal trials are different enough to the extreme, that people who get used to doing the extreme version will get confused when doing the normal in trial roulette

I'm so sad I missed watching the stream (I hadn't gotten to Sorrow of Verlyt at the time you were doing these trials), but this very much looks like what Day 1 prog would've looked like. Bonus props to your party for not spoiling answers. Also, the walkthrough of your thought process is a great recap for people who missed the stream. I'm laughing so much at the setup, like "Kyle literally tripped and fell into the solution" ... A+ scripting and editing for this video!

You guys did my fav EX ❤❤❤!!!! I loved it during content and I love it even now xD! It might be because it felt like a good transition from EX to Savages for me (right after Dia EX I did the Savages of the Omega raids). Now off I go to wait for the time you guys do the EX of the second trial of EW (my second fav) 😆 !!!

The raid community has an unhealthy habit of marking tanks with the icon, despite the fact that the tanks usually have a very set position. For those who say that you need it if you are their partner, please use focus target.

Limit Cuts in fights like Tesleen are like "okay, one two three four, no problem" but then you have to go further and its like "fck you, why"

This is the true XIV prog experience, and why we love it. You will die.. a lot, and then die some more, but in the end when you finally get that clear none of it matters.

Poor Innocence. He was all powerful 😢.

I'm personally a big fan of Flood Ray and many of the other Limit Cut type mechanics. Except the part where the numbers can disappear into other stuff.

Ff14 reuses a lot of mechic indicators. For example the trac marker is a resued mechanism. I believe it appears in orbone momentary as well as others fights before this.

I fully understand limit cut mechanics being difficult for us numerically impaired people, especially with how the dots are arranged.. so uh, good luck in a particular Endwalker EX.

From what I remember dealing with the dots used in limit cut, to count, it's relatively easy to read most of them but 6. I got use to if I can't read it quickly, it was most likely 6 and acted accordingly.

This is where the fun begins.

This was an awesome stream. Emotional vampirism is fun and all, but watching you guys suffe- I mean, figure things out- is a delight too 😎

Hey I just want to affirm that what Garret says about the number marks is absolutely true. Its pretty its bad that any other effect can overlap and confuse the markers, especially considering how much they are used and how Square must know that players use the 1 and 2 markers. Also the 5 and 6 are atrocious. Been saying both of those things have been mistakes for years.

HELL YEAH!!!!!!!! THIS IS THE GIGACHAD FEELING OF RAIDS AND TRIALS OF HIGH END ELITE CONTENT IN FFXIV!! Lets GOO!! GG Kyle & Garret!!!!!!!!

Chase arrows are in the first yorha raid but I think they target dps so it makes sense you wouldn't have seen them

I was hoping for a Werlyt story discussion but this works too!

The community largely names mechanics after the first time that mechanic appears. And limit cut appears in the Ultimate with Alexander, which released in Shadowbringers. So congrats on stumbling upon the same method of naming mechanics after the first time you’ve seen it happen!

I once asked in my FC Discord 'What's Limit Cut?' and proceeded to watch everyone start arguing. The only thing I hold true is no one knows what Limit Cut is and every mechanic with the numbers is now called Limit Cut, because we gotta call it something.

I didn't even realize you guys hadn't posted a discussion video on the Weapon Trials, or the Sorrows of Werlyt in general, til now. And it is some of my favorite content in the game.

I aspire to one day have fashion sense even half as good as Garrett's

You guys may not actually have seen the original Limit Cut. It was from the Savage version of the Cruise Chaser fight (A11S). IIRC, you guys only did the normal. But yeah, since that fight back in HW, any time every member of the party gets the 1-8 pips, we call the mechanic Limit Cut no matter the actual name.

Limit cut was originally in a11 yeah

Diamond is one of the few EX's I did on release and it was a pretty fun fight that I really enjoyed. A lot of small things that I found pretty enjoyable.

I'm so jealous of your ability to run these blind MINE. I would kill for the ability to do that with a group. I might try to join your group next time you run one but the times can be a bit awkward and, well, the odds are not in my favour anyway.

The numbers are laid out rather uniquely, but I think thats intentional. They're very visually distinct from each other in a way that they wouldn't be if you laid them out like dice. I don't even count them, I just look at the shapes.

the "Big Fat Tacos" on kazoo at the end is 🧑‍🍳💋

End-of-expansion extremes tend to be a bit easier for some reason, and the first two extremes for each expansion are also made easier (as an invitation for people to try them out once they're done with msq)

Yeah, I have to zoom in as a healer any time I get dot-marked to see the ones. And the number 6 has wiped many a raid. Many many a raid

If it helps, those dot markers are generally considered by the community to be the worst of the standard marker set that ends up seeing use. Unfortunately, however, they do get used semi-frequently in harder content so you just kinda twist your brain until you get used to them. Good luck, and don't worry--literally everyone fucks up whether you had 6 or 7, trust me.

This was the first one my static did blind. We've done Savage blind ever since, because it was just so much fun. We had quite a lot more raiding experience though, so we had the "guided" experience going in to it. And now that we do things blind, it's just so much more fun. By the way! We have "Current" Extremes, but at level 90 we currently have Thordan Unreal. Literally: A scaled-up version of Thordan EX so you can do it on level 90. One notable change to mechanics (basically a piece of RNG that got adjusted), but otherwise perfectly scaled up to offer a proper challenge against your level 90 skillset. Be sure to do that after finishing MSQ because it changes the current Unreal per patch.

Ohh your thoughts in diamond ex are interesting indeed. Now i wonder where will SoSex come in considering youve experienced all these. Cant wait for that livestream. 🙏

Live, Love, Limit Cut...

“This is the angriest I’ve ever been at FFXIV” Welcome to Limit Cuts! And spoilers, they’re not getting old any time soon!

People have been complaining about the Limit Cut Markers for 8 years, welcome to the club boys

Fair point on the Limit Cut markers mixing with the player markers. Actually ended up making a macro to toggle them before LC alike mechanics so people actually see what they get.

Live, laugh, limit cut

"limit cut" is one of those fun terms that once meant something specific, but now just is used to mean anything that puts numbers over your head. Limit Cut wasn't even the first use of it! 😂

you should try the current patch's unreal trial. you can unlock it in shadowbringers.