I had one sub for decades and it sounded great. I recently added another sub and it sounds even better. The End :)

I found that careful placement of both subs seemed to create the effect of more even bass across the entire room. Seems to me that the nodes created by each sub filled areas voided by the other. Since going through the experiments I can walk through the room and not notice significant lack of bass anywhere, while I used to have a few spots that felt completely dead. I placed one sub and did not connect the other, then played it and moved around the room to locate the dead zones, placing a mark on the floor or seat where each one was. Then I disconnected the first one and connected the second, and experimented with placement till the marked spots had good bass and the dead spots were elsewhere. Connected both and played it and seem to have much more even bass throughout the room. Of course, YMMV due to room size, shape, etc. but it seems to work for me.

All I've got to say is once I added a second sub my listening pleasure went up a factor of two, I also agree the room is half the problem, but if you don't have deep pockets for room treatment or understanding partner a second sub is the a better way to go.

1 sub correctly set up is fantastic.

I had one SVS SB2000 and then bought another at a good price, but could never fully integrate them into my room. Got rid of both and got the smaller REL T/7 and immediately it fell into place. I picked a second one which I probably didn’t need for my smallish room, but got both of them dialed in and now I hardly ever think about them at all.

I recently added a second identical sub, old REL Q200E. All I can say is that from the second it was up and running, everything just sounded right ! All the little niggles just disappeared. Even my completely disinterested significant other noticed a huge improvement in the general "feel" and "presence" of the music. Just wish I had started with two subs before even buying the floorstanders 😁

Have to agree with this one big time Paul. More subs can correct the limits of a small volume room that can't contain the entire low frequency wave in it. I would also add that subs are range extenders below to of most, so called full range speakers...but most of the time the room is a huge part of that issue as well. Dual subs can give you a decent fill correction in the main sweet spot, but for home theaters of medium size to large most will run at least 4 subs to balance off and fill most of the seating area. Paul, that sux big time, because the cost to modify the room compared to just adding 2 subs are insanely different, but who is going to have a room at least double the size of your listening room? What a great question and a great answer too.

For a given budget, I rather have a single better, more powerful and cleaner sounding subwoofer costing twice of a mediocre subwoofer. A great subwoofer with very low distortion can not be located in a soundstage. If my budget is unlimited, I agree with Paul 😊

My setup for stereo music is a pair of focal speakers and two subs , Marantz receiver , rotel end amplifier. Set as full range ,lfe+main.

3:31 Got a flashback to me in class there for a second.

There’s no SUBstitute for quality. I replaced two Klipsch subs with one Rel T/X7 , and the difference was amazing as soon as I started listening. Much easier to blend in with my main speakers with no bass boom, and it totally disappears.

Hey Paul! This is not your usual comment, this is a thorough ENDORSEMENT of your efforts! I'll offer a few suggestions here. Two is the correct answer for a STEREO, absolutely. A surround system actually needs four. This breaks down to one each on each side of the L/R mains & two more, one behind the front of the system & one centered in the rear, both of these from the .1 channel or effect channel. This took a bit to figure out but this adds up with precise critical settings to some very impactful cancellation of a lot of the standing waves you dislike so much, the exact opposite of what one would expect. Thanx, 'Ole Audiophile.

Paul what about those near Field stereo subs you were talking about? What crossover frequency did you find favorable?

I suppose the trick is in how the room response is, like Paul explains, and low frequencies are the hardest to direct or tame. So having a speaker with the subwoofers built in, or a transmission line style that can get those low frequencies really down there, can be more problematic. It seems the best thing one can really do is have main speakers that roll off around 40hz and let 2 carefully placed subs do the rest. Each side will have its own issues to work out because of the unevenness inherent in nearly all rooms . But in the end, the response should be easier to tune with the 2 subs separated out.

My room has 2 subs that work fantastic with their own active line level inputs. Right and left come in just fine. Currently frustrated as I finally set up parallel high input connections from the amp speaker outputs, and only the left sub works for some reason. The speakers both left and right sound great so I know the high level input circuits on the subs are working. But the right sub isn't giving me any bit of bass. It works fine with the line level but not the high level input. Not sure why. Hope I can figure it out...cuz the high level input on the left side sounds so perfectly coherent, and the speaker just blends in with the sub beautifully...like it finally has the extension it needs to not sound separate from the sub.

Yep, room modes are a bass killer. More subs fill in more of the nulls that occur in every room. Having more subs isn't always about having "more" bass, it's about keeping all the bass you would have had, if it weren't for the nulls caused by room modes. You can't just wish them away with better speakers, or eq. 1/4 wavelength and room dimensions dictate where the nulls are. More subs in different locations active more room modes and even out the bass response across the room.

Thanks Sir for the info

Off topic, was the audio on bluray discs dsd or pcm?

I’m seeing rel carbon subwoofer in an array 6 total in some really high end systems … would love to know the rational pro/cons

The best solution is to design the speakers / subs specifically for your room. Ok not if your talking £500 budget but as soon as you get into £5k plus it makes way more sense to make or have made your speakers. I made 4 way speakers comprising of 1 * 10” sub, 2 * 8” woofers, 1 * 6 1/2” mids and large ribbon tweeters. Having measured the room response I could design the speakers (fully active) to achieve a flat (or whatever I liked using active crossover) response from 18 to + 20000. The speakers are across the long wall with side firing subs going backwards slightly against this long wall. The front firing 8” woofers will go down to 35hz. Sealed box and large but they do exactly what I need them to do. It staggers me the amount some spend on “off the shelf” systems when for a fraction you can have bespoke which will always be superior if you or the designer / maker know what they are doing👍

Excellent question!

Hi Paul Whta's "wrong" with the Powerplant? The meters are not showing constantly

Would it be two individuals or 1 double

Isn’t the Tympany in an orchestra in the upper rear right side?

I have both books and cd and have also bought 2 REL quake subs and even without using the books and set up yet with the subs both on "wow" and without "Oh" totally different sounds. can only get better soon.

I have the BHK signature preamp, but it does not have any sub-woofer output RCA connections! How do I add subwoofers to the preamp?

Going to tons of audio shows and demos I never ever heard one where the sub wasn't a separate thing. It always stood out to me as an 'added' oomph. Sometimes even a directional added oomph which is obviously just due to bad placement and setup. I wonder if it's a sensitivity I have that other don't have, or that, after having heard so many high end setups with subs, I never heard anyone who did it 'right'.

I tried 2 subs, left & right and I was not getting that sweet output. I stacked them on the right corner and now I have strong tight bass.

4 preffered. I mean 2 couples so you take care of the DB gain and still get sensational separation for the higher end lows and yes that makes sense. 60-120 where it becomes directional.

Ah, I didn't think of that. I thought it was because some subs put out not just very low frequency sound, but many go a bit above 80 hz which is the point above which your ear can hear slight phase differences between the sound in each ear, so can detect position and a stereo effect above 80 Hz. If the sub only put out below 80 Hz, there would be no stereo information so you could get away with just one, but above 80 Hz two would contribute some stereo information.

Is it best to have 2 identical subs, or dissimilar subs that might react differently?

For that expensive of a speaker that can go to 23 hz the lower cabinet should be separate so it can be located for best effect. Call it the FR30-2!

Thats your story and your stickin to it mine too i agree

Of course two subs allow two different low frequency sounds to be reproduced, such as when two low frequency instruments are recorded on different channels. It is far better for definition than summing the channels into one speaker. Since I have a very large room and a near-field set up. I locate the subs with the primaries.

I really live the FR30s and almost want to blind buy, I only have 1.6watts though haha

Paul... Conceptually, are electrostatic speakers superior to conventional speakers?

Is a regular stereo sound track 2.1 or does it have 2 tracks for low frequency channel .....i.e. 2.2 one being left lfc and one being right lfc

PAUL-I have to say this. From my begining of Sound Systems, I was told that hat there should be a Sub-Woofer for each channel. Please tell me your thoughts on that? Thank you, Greg Bardakos

I suggest using three subwoofers. Two large ones in antiphase at the ends of the room and the third as a near seat in the listening position. Good bass guaranteed!

I’m a “ this is gonna take forever to place correctly , but I’m putting four subs in here “ kinda guy

What kind of setup should I have if I listen to Mongolian throat singing, pipe organs and sound effects records with a lot of train horns?

So, are we going to see some PS Audio subwoofers? 😊😉

Paul, I would suggest that you try using PSI Audio AVAA C20 active bass traps in all four of your room corners. Those actively interfere with the room's orthagonal modal resonaces, not just the fundamentals, but also the harmonics up thru the Schroeder frequency.

Low level input or high?!

It's amazing how much home audio has come within the last 20 years. Subwoofers are supposed to inject the low bass missing for standard 2 or 3 way speakers.....NOW everyone is on this two subwoofer kick. I would much rather has one very MUSICAL / FAST subwoofer than two. Furthermore, the majority of people simply doesn't have room for two subwoofers because the majority if people do not have a dedicated movie room or entertainment room....they just use their living room/space. Ontop of that, now you're spending more $$$$.

just buy a lounder sub and eq the lows up. measure the volume of each frequency where youre sitting. simple. two can make a stereo setup if the subs are spaced apart. put the sub in the middle too like what then you only hear bass on your right side

Well.. The steps are really the same if you have 1 or 2.. And the real reason to use two (other than setting them up in stereo) is to just fill the room better and more evenly. And 2 needs to work a little less than just 1 to achieve the same thing. Absolutely nothing wrong with having just one. That works more than good enough for most people. My single sub sits right next to my right speaker. And trust me.. It adds ALOT! As long as the phase is correct... If that's wrong than everything sucks and sounds bad in the bass.

We don't need subwoofers when we use our big old 15" Cerwin Vegas ;)

If you have two should you send the L&R signals to both, or just send the L or R to each, respectively?

Easy fix. Just grab yourself an EQ and make that baby smile! It will make your bass boom and make your highs sizzle

Why didn't you design the room around the equipment>

Two is always better than one; that's the principle of life.

It's Gothenburg, as in 'Goth-n-burg' 😀

I have one activate sub in my setup, i have it set to sound as the bass is coming from my main speakers, all tracks i play new and old, have different base levels, but some of the electronic music i play has a heavy bass that vibrates the doors in my listening room, some tracks have little bass, i have a £2000 budget system and friends that listen to my system, like me think its a great sound, so i am happy with my kef cube sub as i think for me 2 subs would shake the house, but its cool if people want two subs its there choice! 😁👍

It is entirely dependent on the room!

I thought the whole idea of a sub-woofer was that it is operating in MONO, but Paul is now indicating that they run in Stereo and therefore you need two. So my question is, why not run one sub-woofer in MONO? After all, the frequencies a sub-woofer is operating at are not directional.

Bass allways travels along walls, if you place your sups say 6 inches away from a wall, then put your seat right up against the opposite wall you will hear deeper bass!

I just got back from Boulder and listened to the FR30’s. I couldn’t have been more underwhelmed. I played some reference tracks I was extremely familiar with, including some bass heavy tracks. I took my sister with me and remember looking at her and telling her, “hold on to your hat” just before a dramatic low end bass line hit and……my jaw dropped. NOTHING- absolutely, positively zero low end punch. I also felt the overall tonality of the speakers were, well, odd. I’m thinking, I’m in a treated room with PS Audio’s best gear and came away from my third visit to PS Audio and this particular listening session, extremely disappointed. After just receiving a 2022 Golden Ear for these speakers from TAS, I’m beginning to wonder about the legitimacy of reviewers and reviews from this mag? Sorry Paul, I don’t get it. If your goal is to put these speakers in their “best light”, someone has dropped the ball. Might as well put the IRS V’s back in that room that I saw, now standing by themselves unhooked and unplayed. They ABSOLUTELY blew me away when I listed to them, across the street. In fact, I bought my very first pair of proper loudspeakers from one of your neighbors there in Boulder at Listen Up, in 1988. A pair of Infinity RS 6000. Yup, small world and you really need to “fix” that room? Or at 62 and a long time audiophile, maybe I don’t know what the el I’m talking about…

REL is the best for 2 channel .... right?

Precisely the reason why I strongly advocate standmount speakers combined with a subwoofer (or two) connected at high level. Tower speakers limit your choices, and, as they rarely produce bass/frequencies low enough, usually need augmenting with a subwoofer, so causing more issues with room placement. Plus towers are just plain ugly. They are. I don't want to stare at the back end of a freight train, don't care how good they sound - standmounts are more elegant and allow you to actually see the room. My preference is ONE REL sub, placed in the corner, connected at high level - it's all you need as it's non-directional. And it's not just Mahler with the bass position - it's the traditional Viennese layout of the orchestra.

of course bass / subwoofer material is the most sensitive to the listening space & position. yet, it is least directional. such irony is part of what makes audio systems compelling for enthusiasts of music, performance, sound, technology & physics. funny how a solution-set must entail so much to achieve oneness. "if 1 subwoofer is a good thing, 2 might be better." "nondirectionality" is relative. if a stereo (or multichannel) recording has distinct bass material in each channel, then it is possible to experience that upon playback. bass content can be captured, panned & amplified. it can be created & exaggerated synthetically. if you have the appropriate source, and set-up an appropriate audio system (a far field listening reference system), in a large hall (or better yet, a nice outdoor listening space), then one may experience & locate channel-specific low-freq. material. finding such source material and transferring all that to a near-field interior system/space is tricky, to put it mildly. (for me) given the success in creating quality hi-fi subs + the consensus about placement & smooth integration (thx Paul! & many others over the years), I have become more interested in resolving / delivering timbral accuracy of bass-generating instruments. admittedly, I like jazz combos playing acoustic instruments. it's a challenge yet to be fully addressed - perhaps because it is not so easily perceived or achieved.

You cannot have stereo subs !! If you MUST use two of them stack them on top of each other and place them in the spot that gives the best bass sound at your listening spot ... that's all there is to know about dual subs ...

You can make your two subwoofers disappear. But can your neighbors make your two subwoofer’s disappear. 🤔

Often it is problematic with only one subwoofer from the stereo input signal the bass under 60 (or whatever the separation frequency between the main speakers and the subwoofer is) is to deliver as a correct mono signal to the sub. With two SW, this doesn't happen at all, and especially in modern productions, a lot of space is used in the bass, which is often not reproduced correctly with a mono solution.

I already that 2 sub's in my sound system.. Using car audio amp 4 channel... Car audio amp is beeter to used if u want have 2 subwoofer played by stereo mode.. For more info how it really works..asked me how

The goal with the subwoofer is to not hear it? I say if you're not hearing it then the subwoofer it's not plugged in

Or spend money on proper treatment, if you can, which is likely more effective

Please do 8 subs versus 46

For the excitement of HT, subs are a no brainer. That said, I’ve never used subs for stereo listening. I have a pair of floor standing sealed units with an internal volume probably close to 100 liters that are perfectly functional down to below 25 Hz, so I would never dream of using subs on them. On the other hand, in another room, I have another completely different floorstanding pair that probably have about half that internal volume that are workable down to 37 Hz. I do sometimes miss that extra extension, depending on the program material, but I don’t know if the extra trouble and expensive is worth adding subs. I’m wondering what the general consensus is about what level of extension no longer requires subs to augment stereo, and what a pair of active subs should cost relative to the stereo pair..🤔

The correct number is 7 in a 7.7.4 setup.

Most good pipe organs go down to 16Hz. Only two pipe organs in the world have pipes that speak at 8Hz - the air needed to set up an sound wave at 8Hz is significant.

crazy how they built the room from ground up with basicaly no budget limit and they still have room modes in bass area

Paul. i have £500 budget for subs. 2 at £250 or 1 for £500. Just in case you needed help with the Maths😅

I thought two subs would cansel eachother out... ? If not why ?

Paul, you’ve been hacked.

Stereo subs is always better, end of discussion.

I would think that having two subs - one for each channel - would be preferred so that you'll get all of the low frequency signals.

Two subwoofers is way better than one Four subwoofers, two stacked on top of eachother on each side ..... is way better than two Once that you have tried four, there is simply no way of having only two subs 🙂

Paper...

Why buy one when for twice the price you can have two?

It all depends on the room size. In my medium size room 1 sub is enough. 2 would be overkill.

2 subwoofers is ideal, i just use one at the moment, but planning to buy another later, but i rather buy 1 good sub first and buy another later than 2 cheap subs, subs Below €1000 have a lot of comprimises

There's a big difference between an audiophile and an audio engineer ...

If you feel the need of adding more subwoofers it means that your only Sub is not good enough

Why does your listening room look so boring?

What an imbecilic question. You ask this question of someone with a financial incentive to bias the answer? I'll give you the answer and I'm not in the business: One sub is MUCH better than no subs. Two subs is about 20% better than one sub. No matter what you do you'll never get anywhere without a microphone and dsp software such as REW, ARC Gen, Dirac, etc. You'll never blend the sub right even though you will believe you did.