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I think Zinc batteries are the future... as are Lithium, Sodium, Vanadium, high pressure Hydrogen, flow batteries etc... Each chemistry has it's own characteristics and it's own uses.

I'll believe it when it's in a actual device.

The low 1.3V nominal voltage is a good drop-in replacement for Ni-MH and disposable AA and AAA batteries, especially with the voltage being closer to 1.5V than Ni-MH. This means they could be mass produced for existing AA / AAA powered consumer electronics, unlike other new battery chemistries that use very different voltage ranges to existing disposable and rechargeable batteries.

Hey two bit, I absolutely love your balanced engineering analysis of potentially viable battery solutions to displace lithium ion. Please keep it up, as this is one big reason I left to follow you, your your detailed coverage of energy issues and solutions.

Zinc will always be in the game and I would guess it will run in the top 5 chemistries but not likely #1. Thanks. Very informative and well presented as always.

Dentrite forming has been the major hurdle of solid state lithium batteries as well. They have learned a lot more about those and are finally moving past that issue, so hopefully most of that knowledge can be transfered to the dendrite growth in these Zinc batteries as well.

Dude, I love your videos, being an engineer, I’m hooked on energy storage! Keep up the great work, Bravo 👏🏻

Thanks for keeping it real. Right now nothing can touch lithium iron phosphate. I honestly don't see zink or sodium getting close anytime soon.

Forget charging for a moment and consider this: what kind of power source would be able to provide such a huge surge of power???

These batteries are gamechanger, let's do it:) Sweet bottle, finally worth upgrading my 20 year stainless steel waterbottle.

that's the kind of battery I need. I'm tired all the time

I like the tag line, one of the most accurate ones you have used. You provided a lot of good information, without padding it with how does a battery work? My biggest issues with these "break throughs" is no one states how soon mass production will begin, because that is the bottom line. Also more concerned about mass storage over an EV. Overall I enjoyed your video

BBC had a podcast series several years back called Elements. One episode was about the Vanadium battery, can't believe that this is not in widespread use by businesses as it provides almost limitless energy

Another advantage of aqueous and air batteries is that the molecular motion of the medium tends to erode dendrites before they become dangerous. An example is tin solder in air versus vacuum. In vacuum tin forms dendrites, but not in air. The high electric field around dendrites causes breakdown that results in the fire.

16:58 Super caps. Balance those with resistance so that you can charge the super caps at whatever rate you want, but the super caps will only discharge at the rate you need.

Sounds like another potential power solution. Variety is good as it will ensure competition and this will help to bring the most appropriate technology to each application.

Hey Ricky great video I am still not convinced that anything other lithium will be used constantly for mobile applications but stationary storage is wide open. NMC is probably dead in the long term but I am still a LFP stan. I feel like this might be one of the best for home storage, while sodium batteries might be best for the grid storage with its very abundant materials. Then we have the even bigger flow batteries.

I'll believe it when I see it in action in cars and devices.

Excellent presentation lots of new information really a good video

Just wow....this looks like a strong candidate from several angles.

Agreed good idea to be experimenting with different battery chemistries, materials and techniques such as dealing with the dendrite issues.

It’s a very interesting video. From what I’ve seen and read, I believe aluminum Graphene or Graphene aluminum batteries are gonna be one of the major players in battery technology.

EOSE Energy was mentioned briefly but they are worth looking at more. The DOE granted them conditional approval of a 398M loan in August. They are shipping prodcut not with a semi autonomous line and are installing a fully autonomous line in Q1 and Q2 with 3 more lines planned.

It going to help batteries progress. Thanks

Zinc batteries could be the gold standard when it comes to stationary storage. Its volumetric density if harnessed properly could provide safe and low cost grid storage capabilities and power houses sustainably. Its a underrated battery chemistry.

Testing LIPO4 , working great !

i think the most important thing with these new battery types is just to get them to market after all the more something is used the more incentive there is to optimize and innovate

Ricky, thanks for the video. Being a techy myself I enjoy the depth. Would you follow up on other technologies like the v2 of catls sodium ion?

Pretty much every other day we hear about a new battery. When it can actually prove to be mass produced I’ll start getting interested.

Stationary storage is a good way to try out different chemistries. Though I think the next alternative to lithium, might be sodium ion (e.g. from CATL and BYD). The giga factory manufacturing processes are already quite similar. Sodium ion will probably compete against LFP. Zinc can be the third in line. Though I suspect it will require different manufacturing processes, a slower to ramp up. And for all its weird quirks in charge rate, think of it like computer memory. You have different types, with different characteristics (e.g. DRAM, SRAM, SSD, HD, ...). You can pair Zinc batteries with Lithium stack, to help it bridge some gaps, while bringing in its own advantages.

The best thing about battery research is the near infinite opportunities for profit it offers, but performance-based industry profits, not hype-based consumer profits.

I'M STILL WAITING FOR GRAPHENE BATTERY SINCE 2004!!!KEEP DREAMING BIG!😂😂😂

My favorite for grid energy storage is the CO2 energy dome battery, it is fantastic in terms of levelized cost.

Thanks for the new update on these zinc based batteries but considering their energy density I'm still betting on ESS's iron flow battery for scalable energy storage.

Optimal charge rates: Charge it in stages, like a switching power supply, but with much lower frequency, using a much smaller, intermittent and replaceable short-lasting bank of Zn-ion batteries to handle the faster charges: 1) charge the intermediate bank at medium-rate 2) charge the main bank at optimal rate using the intermediate bank 3) repeat until the main bank is fully charged.

Whichever is best in each use case, the future is clearly bright!

It will be complicated for mobile devices that you practically will need at least two cells in series and with two cells in series 3.3V electronics will still need boost converters. A three cell battery gets even more complicated but might be closer to realism for the voltage. Having one battery that will dip as low as 1.0V when at 0% is a problem because most electronics have a really hard time operating at those voltages. A boost converter might need 1.5V to even run its own logic and switching system.

Very interesting… i am very skeptical but am excited to hear news like this.

I love your videos! Can you make something like an "Ultimate battery video" for 2023 or 2024, where you compare all the batteries types and f.e. give your estimation which one is most promising? 🔋🔋

PROGRESS over PERFECTION ❤️. I’ll just be happy for a cheap home storage

Good luck 👍

The discharge rate of these cells however is likely 'ball lightning'. Fast blowing fuses may be miniature suns. :P

It used to be 1 battery breakthrough every couple years and I had time to fact check the technology behind for feasibility. Now it happens 4 times a year and I have no time to turn into full time scientist. I will embrace one once I can buy it.

That 'dancing'/propagation sounds like the kind of breakthrough which could also be applied elsewhere. To visualise, I'd have gone with Newton's cradle but I guess the 'dancing' was already in the headline. Looking forward to affordable home battery storage.

Hey, I just wanted to say, I don't appreciate how at 10:40 you plotted mAh/g vs. Wh/Kg. The plot shows that the new Zinc-ion batteries run at a lower voltage than standard lithium-ion batteries though, the voltage of the battery has nothing to do with capacity, and if it's too low, you can just put them in series. I just finished watching the video though, and you actually brought up voltage, so that's good. Then would be a better time for that graph. And, thanks for including the whole drawbacks section!

Those straight cut gears sounds 🤌

I think this battery technology sounds great, it has some great advantges. Is there a concern with the aqueous electrolyte freezing if its temperature drops too low?

The answer is always "All of them". Just like we use Steel, Aluminum, and Magnesium for car wheels for different uses and economics... We will use Lithium, Sodium, Zinc, and other Chemistries for different Use Cases and Economics.

ideal for remote busy charging stations. If they are going to be large anyway, why not make an anode on a conveyor, make a small portion of the anode periodically go through a refurbishment as zinc has a low melting point. Kind of like an EZ bake oven?

Another promising battery technology to watch out for is aluminum ion batteries. They're being developed by the Graphene Manufacturing Group in research partnership with the University of Australia. Aluminum ion batteries have several advantages over lithium ion and materials will be easier to source.

I’m cool with stationary use in conjunction with solar to take strain off the grid.

It will be interesting to see the future, If Dendrites are created by electric paths then there has to be a way to destroy them. Once we figure that out we will be able to reverse that process and give those batteries a longer life span.

OMG. Another “battery tech about to take the world by storm” video. I’ll believe it when I see it in a retail product.

It seems to me there is new battery technology every week. When these new batteries hit the market, the Lithium Iron batteries, (which are still useful), should become very inexpensive.

It sounds like an interesting chemistry, maybe one that might become widespread. Its use in automobiles looks pretty shaky - But it might work fine in OTR trucks and even ships where a ton more or less really does not matter.

I'm excited about different chemistries that get optimal characteristics for various use cases: In bulk transport (trucks and planes) the density by weight is crucial (the battery itself needs to moved, while battery-volume and cargo-space can find an optimum for short-haul and long-haul capacity requirements) In personal transport (cars and bikes) the charge-time is crucial for longer trips, with density by weight becomes less crucial (still important as it sill needs to be moved as well) when more charge-stations are built to remove range-anxiety. In grid-storage fast charge & discharge are crucial to respond to supply and demand profiles, as well as resource-availability due to the high demand and cost-sensitivity. Energy-density plays no role In home-storage the resource-availability (and cost) is important to drive higher adoption to off-load the grid (many charge-cycles will also help to keep maintenance-cost down over the life of a home. But charge/discharge speeds are not all that important Lastly in small devices: high energy by both volume and weight, fast re-charge and low cost are all important, also battery-recycling ability (reclaiming the battery after the device is discarded due to being out of fashion long before the battery is end-of-life) For each of the above different chemistries will ultimately be used that can be optimised accordingly...

The foot in the door use case would be AAA AA C and D cell replacement. 1.3 ro 1.5v per cell is similar to the Zn MnO2 alkaline battery chemisty. ❤

This man has a 5 oclock shadow at 5am... probably has to change blades twice per shave. Im not saying to insult, Im genuinely impressed. I bet if you ever run out of work you could sell your beard hair as sheeps wool.

Zinc is extremely prone to dendrite formation, however using an intermittent high current pulse as part of the charge cycle can fix this problem. The other issue is that the voltage will be about 1.2 to 1.4V meaning more cells would be needed for higher voltage. Also vanadium is a very toxic metal.

All of the above quite honestly. Where chemistry, economics, safety, and SWaP-C (Size, Weight, Power, and Cooling) are in play, all these factors will dictate which to use.

When something is too good to be true, it often is

Definitely interesting news! However, I fail to understand how the cells could at the same time last 200K cycles with 500 C and have potential dentrite formation? Typically dentrite formation destroys the cell in 50-200 cycles which would be a bit shy of 200K cycles, right?

like anything the future will be a mix of tech. But lowering the demand on one should help keep the cost down on all.

I remember people carrying batteries about that looked like that in the 1950s. I never knew where they were taking them. 😊🇬🇧

*Vanadium is cool since it can hold 5 electrons but its just a Vanadium FLOW battery that DOES NOT flow.*

Interesting all around. Any alternative to strip mining is good. Let's see where these technologies end up in 5 years. I for one look forward to seeing this leap in battery technologies.

Being a lowly e e t, it seems to me the problems are far out weighed by the advantages of this type of battery over the sodium and lithium ones; prompting the development of them.

If I’m understanding this right, it’s energy/power density probably stems from the fact that it’s more of a zinc hydrogen battery than just a zinc one.

I keep seeing video's like this on KZfaq. I'll believe this like all the rest when I can buy it on the shelf for no more than batteries cost today.

Amazing

The three bears of the battery world

the best way to rollout battery adoption is to market the zinc as eco friendly as it is easily recyclable and functions (as an ecosystem) much better where demand and capacities to recycle are best

I am prefering Graphene-Zinc Ion for a BEV or Graphene-Zinc.Ion Supercap for a HEV, I'm still planning to make a Battery from that chemistry.

Its might be the future for solar and wind Energy storage

@twobitdavinci can you do a video about size standardization of cell size benefits/con ? Thankyou

Lower voltage usually means a heavier gauge cable to transmit the power. As you said there are always tradeoffs and it could be a while before we see these batteries come up to scale. Plus the extra weight is not great for a car as that would cut range negating the other advantages.

When the goal is to raise the cyclability from 300 to 900, it is a hard price fight. A cheap and easy recyclable battery could make battery swap feasible, but only if both factors are right.

Sodium might be the way to go for mobile stuff. Split salt. You get sodium for batteries and chlorine for other industrial applications.

I'm rather puzzled on how it gets that many cycles and yet has a dendrite problem. 😮

The most impressive density in this video is this man's follicle density. Man has to have the most dense beard in the world. But no lie the video was incredibly informative.

There’s a lot of experimentation going on in the energy sector, between this and solid state silicon batteries there is a lot of possibility here. Yes, these technologies are new and haven’t been commercially implemented yet, but I think history will look back at this period and marvel at a battery that could only carry a car a few hundred miles or power a phone for a day, let alone having to recharge in an hour or so. 20 years ago, we couldn’t comprehend a battery taking a car 100-300 miles, and now it’s normal. The tech will catch up just give it a few years!

Do Zn batteries compare with Pb (auto) batteries in terms of CCA's? The C-rate seems to imply lots of CCA's. How long will a Zn battery hold its charge? How does the battery reaction degrade at low temperatures?

This looks good, lets hope it is not vapourware, but from what i have read it really is going to do what it has announced it to be capable of. And as this is a 12 year design that has been improved on i don't see it being vapourware, we can only but hope they release the first ones to the public soon.

The battery breakthrough of ths month

Want weird minerals for new fangled projects? We got it! 🇦🇺

I recently did a back of the envelope calculation that you might want to follow up for your programs. It appears that the failure and fire rate of Li Ion batteries is grossly exaggerated on KZfaq and some news sources. Makes really attractive videos but the actual burn up percentage may not be much different that with gasoline vehicles which burn up fairly frequently in collisions. Hard to get the data but it would be worth it.

The future is the brazilian battery with Niobio.

I like the idea of these batteries. Though, I think for home use I like the idea of the zinc flow batteries or the idea of stored hydrogen in low pressure media like that one company is doing with plastic ape and lasers

This seems to be a particularly good battery tech for robots, if they can make them at scale with the stated specs. Take Boston Dynamics' Spot for instance. Its battery is 560Wh. The battery weight is 5kg, about a 6th of the robot's weight, and it takes up a fair amount of space. It can operate for 90 minutes on that. However, it takes 60 minutes to charge. It would be way better if it only needed battery capacity for 60minutes, i.e. a smaller and lighter battery, but with the ability to charge in 5 minutes. Same for robot vacuum cleaners and the like. It would just be way, way more time efficient.

it does survive 450⁰C in contact with O2 and SO2 to produce H2SO4... so that's good news. it has a lot of reaction pathways though. Also the "dancing pairs" implies that this is conditionally dependent on those two events happening simultaneously without accumulating unintended side effects. Regardless of whatever the dancing pairs are.... i just wouldn't rely on "paring" when heat is involved. also, the planar crystals are similar to some of the starting materials (?) for Metal Organic Frameworks. These link tungsten/molybdenum with ochem groups, but i believe need a crystal surface to dock to. The V2O5 crystals are closer to some newer chip fab materials. means you basically need Molecular Vapor Deposition. Translation: it don't scale too good ... if it did we'd already be using MOF to break down CO2 by post-processing filtered seawater ... while China does nothing but egg on the West's self-loathing. I haven't gotten to the zinc part yet. the good news is that these crystals and the MOF's have strong bonds.

When? I want.

People obsess about range for electric vehicles (and yes, it's important for daily commuting-type travel) but charging speed is the really important thing when using them for long distance travel. Say you need to travel 600 miles and you have a vehicle which starts fully charged and can run at 60mph for 2 hours but then needs to be recharged for an hour: that's 10 hours of travel plus 4 hours of charging: giving an average speed of 600/(10 +4) or about 43mph for the trip. Doubling the range from 60mph for 2 hours to 60mph for 4 hours means that the EV only needs to stop twice for charging instead of four times but the charge time is now twice as long because the battery is twice as large. So travel time is still 10 hours, charge time is still 4 hours, and average speed is still 43 mph. Reducing charging time has a much bigger effect on increasing that average trip speed though. Going back to the original range of 60mph for 2 hours if we can reduce the charge time to half an hour per recharge, the travel time remains 10 hours but the total charge time drops to 2 hours. So average speed is now 600/(10+2) or about 50 mph. So a battery that can recharge 200 times as fast as current batteries would certainly be a big deal for electric vehicles, cutting the trip time in the above example to 10 hours, 1 minute and change, and giving an average trip speed of 600/(10+4/200) or about 59.9 mph. Which means that you wouldn't need to take charge time into account when making long trips as you do with the current generation of EVs because the travel speed would essentially be the trip speed.

Good video. Unfortunately, I have to file this away as vapour-ware until it comes out. It fits right up there with the Hyperloop or solar roadways. Fingers crossed though.

Well it's Na Zn and Na cells are already in the market at 1600wKg. They probably can but unless they really push it will be the Chinese leading the way to production. The voltage is an issue but the cell format might be the solution given its other performance capacities. The one thing you do need to compare is the environmental impact of the extraction and processing of the component minerals. 🤔 A major bane of lithium extraction.

There was talk about the Chinese using a diamond layer component in the formulation of future Batteries. Maybe that's worth looking into ??

I couldn't believe that a Zn ion would be smaller than a Li ion so I looked it up. Amazing. It is about a fifth as large. I wonder if the dendrite problem in other Zn batteries could be solved as Redflow does. They have their batteries in two separate banks and from time to time, fully discharge one bank. This 'resets' the battery, removing any dendrites. Anyway, this appears not to be necessary in this battery. Can't wait to get my hands on them. The huge possible charging rate is possibly pie in the sky. Just think of the amperage the charging wires would have to carry. We would probably have to accumulate the charge in huge super capacitors at the charging station to have than much instantaneous power available. Scary thought. Any way, the charging rate could rival the filling time of the tank of a fossil fuel car.

It would be so cool to have a world where you set down your phone on a table plug in the charger, and it is instantly charged.

Watching your magnetic drive system program brings up one question, where do you propose to get the electricity to run the system?

Energy density will always be the goal