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Tyre Selection Science: Which is the world's fastest clincher tyre/tire?

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FastFitnessTips: Cycling Science!

FastFitnessTips: Cycling Science!

Күн бұрын

Video now updated here: • Spreadsheet to find th...
Wow, here we will help you find the the fastest tyre/tire for TT road and Triathlon and in doing so save you about 27-39 watts (depending on rider weight and speed).
TYRE SOLVER CALCULATOR
bit.ly/ffttyre [google sheets]
LINKS
www.bikeblather...
TOP 10 CLINCHERS BY CRR_2019
Vittoria Corsa Speed Open TLR 23C (tubeless)
Continental Grand Prix 5000 TL (25) 2018
Vittoria Corsa Speed TLR 23C Jet6+tubeless
Continental Supersonic 23C
Continental GP TT 23C
Specialized Turbo Cotton 26C
Continental SuperSonic 23C
Specialized Turbo Cotton 24C
Specialized Mondo Open Tubular 23C (Latex)
Vittoria Corsa Speed (Open TLR) 23C (Butyl)

Пікірлер: 127
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 5 жыл бұрын
Hey guys please sign up to the FFT newsletter/list: bit.ly/fftnewsletter; and contribute to our bikefit dataset: bit.ly/bikefitdata
@patrickluka8513
@patrickluka8513 3 жыл бұрын
I guess Im kind of off topic but does anyone know a good site to stream newly released tv shows online ?
@vincentari6483
@vincentari6483 3 жыл бұрын
@Patrick Luka flixportal xD
@patrickluka8513
@patrickluka8513 3 жыл бұрын
@Vincent Ari Thanks, I signed up and it seems like a nice service =) I really appreciate it !
@vincentari6483
@vincentari6483 3 жыл бұрын
@Patrick Luka no problem xD
@peelingpedaler3635
@peelingpedaler3635 7 жыл бұрын
Never, ever, ever have more than one single dialogue occurring in your video unless it's intended for a chaotic type effect.
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 7 жыл бұрын
Ok fair point, good tip thanks!
@peelingpedaler3635
@peelingpedaler3635 7 жыл бұрын
No, thank YOU for the awesome videos!
@julianmorris9951
@julianmorris9951 2 жыл бұрын
A very good tyre I’ve found is Michelin pro 4 service course, very grippy in corners , very good puncture resistance and quite fast rolling 👍
@DR_1_1
@DR_1_1 6 ай бұрын
I bought them for these reasons, "high" puncture resistance, good grip and performances, and I still have them after many years... a bit worn out, but the thread is not apparent yet (that's usually when I think about replacing my tyres). But compared to the fastest tyres, they need twice as much power (and have ~2 x more puncture resistance).
@mattnugy
@mattnugy 7 жыл бұрын
The spreadsheets you produce are such wonderful resources. Thank you for taking the time to create and share all this content!
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 7 жыл бұрын
Thank you appreciate that. Only a small number of future videos will have xls sheets so enjoy! note these sheets are also periodically updated server-side.
@IamProFish
@IamProFish 7 жыл бұрын
I personally like the continental gp 4000. For me its most important to not puncture while having good grip and cornering. Low rolling resistance is not useful if you are stuck at the side of the road in a race.
@mindciller
@mindciller 7 жыл бұрын
I see crashes in the corners on hard continental tires all the time. I refuse to ride them
@IamProFish
@IamProFish 7 жыл бұрын
mindciller haha, i always see vittoria tiers failing. Strange world...
@Solidboat123
@Solidboat123 7 жыл бұрын
GP4000's aren't hard, you're probably confusing them with the cheaper Gatorskins or something like that. Personally I'm yet to find a better tyre than the GP4000.
@smallnuts2
@smallnuts2 5 жыл бұрын
@@Solidboat123 specialized turbo pro?
@Solidboat123
@Solidboat123 5 жыл бұрын
@Stevo Reno Not sure what you mean by hard? In terms of compound (which is what I meant originally) they're definitely a performance-orientated soft 'racing' tyre, nothing like a hard compound you'd get on a cheaper training tyre. And if you meant in terms of feel, I still don't agree - I've run GP4000SII's back to back against Vittoria Evo Corsas (which are generally known for being a pliable and comfortable tyre), and couldn't feel any difference
@brianmoore1164
@brianmoore1164 7 жыл бұрын
WOW! Fantastic video! Fantastic amount of information freely shared with fellow cyclists!
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 7 жыл бұрын
A thank you means a lot esp on youtube!
@JamesLee-qy3cl
@JamesLee-qy3cl 7 жыл бұрын
awesome work ...thanks
@smallnuts2
@smallnuts2 5 жыл бұрын
Wouldn't the bigger tire get better speed because of less rolling resistance? So 26. 28 or 32 tire?
@anthonyb5625
@anthonyb5625 7 жыл бұрын
I put science to the test today. I had been riding on Schwalbe Luganos for two years as they had come with my bike when I purchased it. These aren't tyres I'd recommend. The tyre choice spreadsheet recommended Conti 4000S II. I plugged my figures into the spreadsheet for inflation recommendations and used those. My first ride on the Conti's today was 50 km with an altitude gain of 814 mtrs. 33 PRs on Strava segments. I'm pretty happy with the results and the science behind the claims obviously works. Saving around 6 watts or more per tyre is proven in my mind. BTW I'm 102 kgs and no climber so this was a real help
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 7 жыл бұрын
***** Its really great to receive this kind of feedback. Obviously the CRR watt savings are lower at slower speed but great result! ps Did you use the pressure calculator too?
@anthonyb5625
@anthonyb5625 7 жыл бұрын
Sorry forgot to add that. I also used the tyre pressure calculator and pumped them to the recommended pressures
@kay19833
@kay19833 5 жыл бұрын
So you think you would have been faster on the conti 4000s than on the corsa speed for instance? what makes you think, you need some recommendation? they already put out a list of top rolling tires and corsa speed tops the list and every other thing that follows till around 10w will just be fine, why do you have to act like using that crappy spreedsheet that don't work again was somehow some lifesaver ?
@atticsuf
@atticsuf 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks for those informations! What about cornering/brakeing, and how these tyres work in the wet conditions?
@trick700
@trick700 5 жыл бұрын
Tyres for TT or Triathlon, great video. Is it possible to summarise in another video, the best tyres for say, Sportive/Club rides, so, in trying to strike that happy balance between rolling resistance and puncture resistance?
@wasupwitdat1mofiki94
@wasupwitdat1mofiki94 3 жыл бұрын
Schwalbe has produced a new tube to market called the AEROTHAN Tube. I would be interested in finding out if the marketing claims are true or not. Maybe you can do some science on tubes?
@DR_1_1
@DR_1_1 6 ай бұрын
Did you try them aerotham? Quite expensive, mostly lighter, but not as fast as latex? there are cheaper brands on the market now (RideNow, etc.) I have no idea about their puncture resistance, apparently the ~40 grams TPU tubes are better at this level...
@wallacepelletier698
@wallacepelletier698 3 жыл бұрын
I’m a big conti fan too. That’s all I have on all my bikes from fat bike to road bikes
@szv71
@szv71 7 жыл бұрын
Where's the Michelin Power Competition?
@cycliststrainingpartner8877
@cycliststrainingpartner8877 3 жыл бұрын
In the bin
@berndkiltz
@berndkiltz 6 жыл бұрын
What about the Aerodynamics of the Tire? Flocycling did a test here, and for example the very well rolling turbo cotton from spec lost bigtime against some conti tires. ?
@evanshumrack431
@evanshumrack431 4 жыл бұрын
Im not sure I trust flows aerodynamics. Check out hambini
@kay19833
@kay19833 5 жыл бұрын
The page don't work no more.I weigh 98kg, I have 15 internal width rims, currently running a set of 25mm continental ultrasport training tires , what do you guys recommend?
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 5 жыл бұрын
Try https//fft tips/tyre and https//fft tips/surface. Try and get conti 5000
@scotts6067
@scotts6067 3 жыл бұрын
How about an update to this video.
@hypojames
@hypojames 6 жыл бұрын
This is all well and good if your only looking at hysteresis losses. but what about suspension losses especially considering most road surfaces are pretty rough. They should make that 23mm top dog clincher in 28mm+ sizing.
@anthonyb5625
@anthonyb5625 7 жыл бұрын
I really appreciate the time and effort you put into presenting videos like this with evidence and not marketing hype. It helps to make informed choices at all levels even down to the best tyre for your bike based on your best budget position!
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks, hopefully I will also update this table with more data in the near future. If anyone has any large scale CRR data tables please send it to me for this purpose.
@DaveIsTheBestMan
@DaveIsTheBestMan 7 жыл бұрын
Great video :-) Really useful info, again!
@DaveIsTheBestMan
@DaveIsTheBestMan 7 жыл бұрын
BTW your channel is really difficult to search for, in KZfaq - Can you add some keywords to make it easier??? (Searching on Fast Fitness Tips doesn't work for me - Only worked when I removed the spaces between the words)
@tr1046
@tr1046 6 жыл бұрын
Brilliant!
@habibband9227
@habibband9227 7 жыл бұрын
awesome as always !
@philjono2462
@philjono2462 3 жыл бұрын
Can we get a 2021 update on this video??
@wallacepelletier698
@wallacepelletier698 3 жыл бұрын
Awesome video I loved it
@ItsDanKReviews
@ItsDanKReviews 7 жыл бұрын
As someone who has ridden the Corsa speeds, they are fairly useless in the corners with minimal grip and they'll flat on just about anything. Saving watts is meaningless if you can only use that speed in a straight line and on a perfect road.
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 7 жыл бұрын
ItsDanK Very true, thank for the valuable personal feedback. Safety and cornering are important no doubt.
@kay19833
@kay19833 5 жыл бұрын
See the problem with your kind? you chime in, criticize, cause commotion and confusion and offer no solutions. Now, thatyou've made it known that Corsa speeds are useless in corners, what tire/tires (at least 3 other brands) combine speed and cornering grip. Straight to the answer otherwise, we can both agree you are a paid troll come other tire brand.
@enotracoon9244
@enotracoon9244 6 жыл бұрын
Great video!
@RixterNow
@RixterNow 7 жыл бұрын
That was terrific Alex!
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 7 жыл бұрын
thanks! now I wonder if there is enough data to make a tubular version of the solver/decision aid??
@RixterNow
@RixterNow 7 жыл бұрын
Or is there enough demand from tubular riders. I figure most of the tubular market is targeted at off-road, for whom rolling resistance is not a big issue.
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 7 жыл бұрын
tubular is still huge in road cycling esp those who wanted the best wheels...mostly the lightest and most aero wheels from last 5 years have been tubular although this is changing now perhaps.
@happydays8171
@happydays8171 5 жыл бұрын
FastFitnessTips: Cycling Science! Over the last 2yrs, I've bought 2 sets of tubulars for use as my daily riders. They were dirt cheap on eBay. Both sets vastly improved my bike's handling over clincher. Am curious about gains in rolling resistance, if you could do a vid on that.
@PasxosC
@PasxosC 5 жыл бұрын
My favorite KZfaq channel!!!
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 5 жыл бұрын
Haha....at least someone likes us!
@stefis6
@stefis6 7 жыл бұрын
Great video. BUT - what about track racing on indoor wooden tracks. Most high performance bikes are shod with Vittoria Pista Evo CL/CS tyres up to 220psi for indoors. Will this trump the Vittoria Speed TL at it's max allowed pressure?
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 7 жыл бұрын
Its would be extremely close because I believe the CRR is very similar, but until someone tests the two tyres under the same conditions and PSI we don't know. NB I cannot comment on the safety of those pressures on a clincher/clincher rim. See our calculator on tyre pressure calculator for more info...it has been updated today! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/edKbkq99p7-qqnU.html
@stefis6
@stefis6 7 жыл бұрын
The TL of course would not be at 220psi, just its max pressure. The surface is as smooth as poss, so no need to have wider tyre at lower pressure... At a recent Age-Group National Track Champs (U17's) a past Olympic medallist advised the use of Pistas at 220psi over the use of Conti GP 23c supersonics on clinchers at 145psi. He also said the use of an aero helmet without visor is not worthwhile... We went with this and used Pistas at 220psi and a Kask Bambino with visor ( as he'd donated it!) but I wondered whether would be a measurable difference. I suspect the data is not available. But track racing has specific environmental conditions which differ from the road. For example the Vittoria TL's would probably not last at all long on the road but would be fine on a velodrome. But then you'd not use Corsa Evo Pista CS's/Cl's on the road either and certainly not at 220psi, whereas you def would on the track.
@Robinators
@Robinators 7 жыл бұрын
too bad, it is too uncomfy. just bought a pair of vittoria 32c rubber. Not aiming for speed, so, this suits me :)
@gillenzfluff8380
@gillenzfluff8380 7 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the handy info, do you have a video about the fastest mountain bike tires!
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 7 жыл бұрын
No not yet; nice idea, but we do have a big MTB bike database that we are processing right now!
@gillenzfluff8380
@gillenzfluff8380 7 жыл бұрын
Fastfitnesstips Thank you for the reply!
@mattseager279
@mattseager279 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video, and all of the other great content on your channel. Forgive my ignorance, how to I access the spreadsheet?
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 7 жыл бұрын
www.goo.gl/wJP7ZI
@CeesQuakkelaar
@CeesQuakkelaar 4 жыл бұрын
veloflex?
@macmurfy2jka
@macmurfy2jka 7 жыл бұрын
A lot of continental in that top 10.
@millsshumps1968
@millsshumps1968 6 жыл бұрын
Yeah I kinda knew the Vittoria Corsa G would come up top trumps.
@patrickbradford6223
@patrickbradford6223 6 жыл бұрын
Think he would bother to test MTB xc race tires if someone supplied tires and wheels?
@shashijairam2423
@shashijairam2423 6 жыл бұрын
The google sheet spreadsheet is locked, so this is a complete waste of time. Can't enter any variable.
@ronetele13
@ronetele13 7 жыл бұрын
Sorry, what does "only requires a tweet to access for free" mean? Who do I tweet? And what should be in the tweet? BTW, as of just now Chrome won't load www.patreon.com - error is "too many redirects".
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 7 жыл бұрын
To explain: to download most of our spreadsheets (some are completely free) you either need to 1. ask us nicely by email 2. join us as a coach athlete 3. join patreon or 4. say thanks by clicking the tweet4link. Any of 1,2, 3 or 4. If you are not on twitter, 1,2, or 3.
@ronetele13
@ronetele13 7 жыл бұрын
Thx for those options, still stymied tho because your website (Patreon) doesn't seem to load (otherwise would look at joining), am not sure what tweet4link is (I don't find that on the FFT Tyre Solver Google spreadsheet), & also don't seem to find your email?
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 7 жыл бұрын
Patreon is definitely working, try another browser or device! email info@fastfitness.tips; thanks for your kind comments and support!
@die2tri448
@die2tri448 4 жыл бұрын
Hi Alex, years ago in another life, riding a tri / time trial bike with a sloped top tube, we mixed front and rear wheel size (650 front, 700 rear) - that went the way of the Dodo. Regarding tires, is there any benefit to mixing tire sizes (23 front, 25 rear)? Without any data I would assume that the majority of my weight is loaded onto the rear half of the bike. The benefits of riding a 25 rear (under my fat butt) would be a bit of comfort, while the front being 23 would have a bit of aero benefit and rolling speed as per the smooth road conditions that I ride. Any sense in mixing tire size??? Thanks!
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 4 жыл бұрын
here you go! medium.com/@alexfastfitnesstips/should-you-go-for-asymmetrical-front-vs-rear-tyre-23c-25c-sizes-b144dc46966b
@die2tri448
@die2tri448 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much! So from this I believe that the "very marginal gain" may not be worth the "futzing" needed to balance the front / rear tire pressures. Given my Park Tools floor pump (+- 1psi maybe), in my house without my fat butt on the bike, those tire pressures are somewhat attainable. However, cold versus warm versus hot days here in Raleigh, NC (and me) across the two tire sizes and air volume differences will also wreak havoc on tire pressure about 30 minutes into a ride. If I can balance the tire pressures and be somewhere +- 1 watt, I think that the real benefit may be a bit of minor ride comfort and puncture resistance (I tend to pinch and pop the rear more often when the unavoidable stones are spread over the road's shoulder). Still, a very marginal numeric gain for a bit of futzing and maybe some subjectivity in the ride feel and avoidance of the mid-ride flat. Its always good to sound everything out with some real data! Thanks again!
@triathlon9045
@triathlon9045 4 жыл бұрын
Does this still stand two years down the line?
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 4 жыл бұрын
Yes but the list of tyres has been updated fft.tips/tyre2
@Guoenyi
@Guoenyi 7 жыл бұрын
Sticking with my gp4000 II. This tyre glues to the ground
@ronetele13
@ronetele13 7 жыл бұрын
gp4000 II seem to be the tire of choice around these parts. is that fad? or experience-based? no answer needed, probably no way to tease that out. just sayin.
@testbed5290
@testbed5290 6 жыл бұрын
Maca Its one of the hardest to fit in the industry.
@FeelingGolden
@FeelingGolden 6 жыл бұрын
Side wall issues... anyone who has used GP4000 S II knows it’s flaw is the weak sidewall. GP4 is so prone to getting sidewall cuts that out of 4 of my personal tires, 2 has deep cuts on the sidewalk and one failed catastrophically (blowout during riding) specifically due to this. I’ve emailed Conti customer support but they pretty much just told me GP4KSII isn’t reinforced in the side wall and that it’s predominantly a race tire so this weakness is justified... all in all they just straight up told me to buy gator skin or 4 seasons instead...shame. All in all, for anyone looking into getting GP4KSII, beware that they are very susceptible to sidewall cuts, and Conti won’t help you out if you reach out to them over this issue.
@kay19833
@kay19833 5 жыл бұрын
@@FeelingGolden How much do you weigh? what do you ride now without any issues?
@VirusofEarth
@VirusofEarth 7 жыл бұрын
Is it better to run this tire tubeless or with tube? I ask because the test was done with a latex tube, but this tire can support both options. Thanks!
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 7 жыл бұрын
Tubeless has a slight edge due to puncture resistance and ability to go low pressure with no pinch flats and slight weight savings. CRR should be better in most cases too.
@kay19833
@kay19833 5 жыл бұрын
@@Fastfitnesstips what's crr?
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 5 жыл бұрын
@@kay19833 rolling resistance
@Daveyboyroy
@Daveyboyroy 5 жыл бұрын
So is the 'vittoria open corsa TLR' the same as a Vittoria corsa G?
@ubudian07
@ubudian07 5 жыл бұрын
He's talking about Open Corsa Speed which is different from G or G+. Speed is for racing and it doesn't have the durability of G+ so be careful.
@blanken1
@blanken1 7 жыл бұрын
should the TLR be run as tubeless or with a good latex tube?
@jeremys8360
@jeremys8360 6 жыл бұрын
Evan Blankenship latex tubes are only good for racing as when they puncture, the burst. Making them unrepairable
@mindiawl
@mindiawl 5 жыл бұрын
Hi, do you have a link to download the spreadsheet please? Thanks
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 5 жыл бұрын
This one? Bit.ly/ffttyre
@chaseorstad9677
@chaseorstad9677 4 жыл бұрын
@@Fastfitnesstips Not editable even in app, all says view only and when I give it my email it reloads with the same result
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 4 жыл бұрын
@@chaseorstad9677 are you talking about fft.tips/tyre? You asked for edit permission??
@jimlevergne
@jimlevergne 7 жыл бұрын
what is the website so we can use it
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 7 жыл бұрын
FFT does not currently have a website other than www.fastfitness.tips (which is this channel), and social media links. If you meant Tom Anhalt thats www.bikeblather.blogspot.com/
@BillHedworth
@BillHedworth 7 жыл бұрын
It recommends me a specialized swt28c - Does anyone know what tyre this is? Google is bringing up zero matches.
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 7 жыл бұрын
specialized s-works turbo 28 clincher
@BillHedworth
@BillHedworth 7 жыл бұрын
Cool, thanks.
@TrenC
@TrenC 7 жыл бұрын
What about wheel/rim width? same tire, same everything else, but different sized surface contact zone.... different amount of compression, all those things have to add up, how does the calculator take those into consideration? eg, i'm running a wider rim, should I be using a 23 or a 25?
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 7 жыл бұрын
Did you watch this video answering this question? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/edVxdbKcxJ6veGw.html
@TrenC
@TrenC 7 жыл бұрын
@Fastfitnesstips I did eventually watch that video, woyld I be correct in the following assumption; due to the (likely) more aerodynamic profile of a smaller tire on a wider rim, it is probably the case that all else being equal, a tyre that is smaller is better?
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 7 жыл бұрын
The best thing to do if match the tyre width to the rim, narrow-narrow / wide-wide. The effect is only really important with side wind (yaw > 3). thanks for watching.
@TrenC
@TrenC 7 жыл бұрын
Hi again... care to comment having watched this?? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/r9h4q7SYlrW7YHU.html
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 7 жыл бұрын
hi yes I saw thats GCN video....is there a specific question? Did you watch kzfaq.info/get/bejne/edVxdbKcxJ6veGw.html?
@auresk11
@auresk11 5 жыл бұрын
Where are Michelin Power Competition tho🤔
@bt7153
@bt7153 6 жыл бұрын
err but rolling resistance isn;t everything. Vibration from the road makes huge difference for speed? slightly cushier tires are faster. That's why I run 25's over 23's
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 6 жыл бұрын
please watch our rolling resistance videos eg kzfaq.info/get/bejne/edKbkq99p7-qqnU.html
@jakepalo1108
@jakepalo1108 7 жыл бұрын
michelin power competition not tested? According to bicyclerollingresistance.com they should be up there: www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews?maxweight=399&t=tubetype+%28clincher%29&max=23&min=7&minpr=8
@Fastfitnesstips
@Fastfitnesstips 7 жыл бұрын
thanks, good tip thanks, we hope to update this list sometime in the future.
@Sttuey
@Sttuey 7 жыл бұрын
Erm.... no Michelin tyres in your database?!! Hardly comprehensive 🤣
@itsm3th3b33
@itsm3th3b33 7 жыл бұрын
Holy Sh!t. Vittoria Corsa Speed Open TLR 23C costs $89 on eBay. Each. I paid $23 for my Continental. First world problems. eh.
@SimonGergolet
@SimonGergolet 7 жыл бұрын
how much did you pay for your bike?
@itsm3th3b33
@itsm3th3b33 7 жыл бұрын
@Simon Gergolet $2000, but that's irrelevant to this discussion.
@SimonGergolet
@SimonGergolet 7 жыл бұрын
@J Y might be, but as a point of attention: the clicher heavily influence how you handle and how fast you ride at the same effort. Probably spending 300$ less in the bike or wheels but better clinchers is a very good idea (considering a couple of years of use...)
@kay19833
@kay19833 5 жыл бұрын
what continentals are you talking about? continental is not a model, it's a brand name you twat. You're probably from Poland too.
@manuelluis5456
@manuelluis5456 6 жыл бұрын
... tooo much cooking NOTHING on the [ empty ] pot ... the road is the one 'who'can say something _ not you . A german autobanh it calls for a differents kind of tire . A burquina-fasso or biafra goat-path ,,, NATURALLY ,,, it will call for another type of road bycicles tyre : NOT YOU MR. CAR SELLER . Is there a refund on this ???
@kay19833
@kay19833 5 жыл бұрын
You need to book a doctor's appointment asap!
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