I am late to this podcast, however I have to correct you. Recently passed law in NYC requires the whole eBike/system needs to be certified to UL 2849. In addition, batteries shall be certified to UL 2271. Compliance to UL 2271 is not just testing. Testing is only about a third of the requirements of the standard, any standard. There are: Construction requirements, component requirements, performance requirements, electrical tests, mechanical test, environmental tests and firmware and hardware reliability evaluation (Functional Safety). keep in mind that these tests are repeated numerous times. Electrical Tests: Overcharge test Short circuit test Overdischarge test Temperature test Imbalanced charging test Dielectric voltage withstand test Isolation resistance test Mechanical Tests: Vibration Endurance Test Shock Test Crush Test Drop Test Mold Stress Relief Test Handle Loading Test Roll Over Test Strain Relief Tests (Cord Anchorages) Environmental Tests: Immersion Test Water Exposure Test (IP Code Rating) Thermal Cycling Test

Thanks for the info and keep getting stronger !!!!🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

Would be cool if you could send in the battery information to someone and get the UL sticker with your personal serial number on it. Like send in a picture and dates of purchase with the companies name in the text and they can send a sticker that your batch of batteries have been also approved. Somehow "grandfather in" your battery 🤔

Love this info. Great job presenting the basics ✌😎

UL certification means a sample of a given design was tested by Underwriters Laboratories and passed. That said, there are two more things to know: 1) Once the model/design is approved and certified, thousands more of that model/design will be built to that spec (supposedly) but won't be tested, so you don't know if the QA was maintained. 2) There are items that don't carry UL labeling that are perfectly fine, such as those that carry CE certification, and simply haven't been submitted to UL for testing.

Thanx Kyle. Great content!

Thanks for an informative video.

lots to think about since i build my own batteries. i only used capacity tested Samsung or lg cells i make sure none of the bms detection lines could short if crushed so no crossing wires unless a solid piece of cardboard is between them the bms must not let any cells go below 2.7 volts or above 4.2. i use my stack monitor to monitor both tests i always use extra ring insulators on the positive cell side before welding them. even though each cell has one built in i always top balance all the cell groups in the battery before using it again the stack monitor helps do this. i always monitor the cell voltages myself during charge an discharge to look for any anomalies. this is useful if a cell has self discharge over time as it will unbalance the groups over months or years i never charge lithium batteries unattended not even things like my cell phone. my cellphone has 30 cell phone batteries on it each with thier own bms using these measures ive never had fires or even cell venting. i get my cells from used power tool batteries (INR cells) so each is tested for capacity, self discharge and resistance.

We need to distinguish between lithium batteries. The dangerous lithium Ion batteries are not the same as the safe lithium IRON phosphate batteries. Lithium Ion are little more light weight and smaller than LiFePO4 batteries is the only reason the industry been clinging to them. My homemade LiFePO4 ebike has gained capacity over charging cycles, unlike with lithium ion batteries. When Lithium Ion batteries fail they turn into fireworks, LiFePo4 just oozes out its electrolyte is its worse case scenario

Great explanation! I think for most people, there are two practical considerations: safety and insurance/lease restrictions (which are tied together for renters). Safety is not entirely tied to UL (or equivalent EU standards), because people use non-OEM chargers and batteries all the time, and the certification only applies to the original battery and/or system. I hope this incentivizes landlords to create space for e-bikes in sheltered locations, with racks and convenient outlets (and that apartment insurance companies see that as a safety measure) -- that wouldn't entirely eliminate the "let's charge the janky battery in my hallway by a chainlinked set of extension cords" phenomenon, but it would make charging at the rack the lazier (and safer!) approach.

The fact that producers of these items didn't go to UL immediately from the start is disturbing. Why are these bikes so expensive if they didn't go through UL???

I have 2 batteries one 48 and one 52 both certified 1 cost me $999 .000 and the 52 $ 1,300 Lg and Samsung ! My BBSHD 1400 watt mid drive runs on both ! I use a Grin satiator ! Both certified my hole bike is ! Shop custom build ! 25ahn both hailong ! I DO NOT MUCK AROUND WITH THE BATTERY SEND TO SPECIALIST TO REPAIR OR GET CHECKED ! The rest ,I do and buy parts from YOU ! Thanks m8 top info %100 !👍👍👍👍👍👌👌👌👌

HEY THANK YOU FOR THE VERY HEADS UP ON THE UL CERTIFICATION .

In a related issue as an ebike owner I am concerned with new ebike laws in states like N.J. requiring registration & insurance, Ca.,Oregon. Videos on you tube talk about this as the end of ebikes. I would like to hear your take on the issue. Could you do a youtube video on it & give a response also to this comment. You are the most knowledgeable person on ebikes I follow on KZfaq. Thank you

I wonder if / when e-bikes batteries will move to a less volatile chemistry like LiPo. It's a really good idea to use a UL listed charger in addition to a UL listed battery.

From my understanding is that the BMS actually protects the battery from blowing up. Normally it shuts down before it causes any damages. That'd be only worst case scenario. I can recall to have seen a bunch of battery cells being crushed by a hyraulic press and nothing really happened. Thanks for the details tho. Is this UL certification international? Guess not it's only required for e bikes but any electronic vehicle on the market so far (at least it should be).

Thanks, Kyle, great video & info . I wonder will a company like Radbikes when they do become UL compliant, Back approve the batteries on bikes they sold pre UL status ?

Been creeping for awhile but I subscribed today. Great channel ❤

The NYC law for e-bikes is the UL 2849 standard. This is the standard that covers the whole system and not just the batteries. This makes sense as the battery, charger and motor work as a whole. Everything effects everything. So Area 13 is wrong on what the NYC law is. This is the law that should be passed nationwide as it is the highest standard. Several major e-bike manufactures have stores in NYC so until they have the UL certification they will have to shut down. The major e-bike motor manufacture that is UL 2849 certified is Bosch. Every e-bike motor they sell in the US is certified. They are in Many bikes including Trek, Gazelle.and Tern among others.

The Lyric Graffiti battery fuse amperage is lower than the controller. Another KZfaqr had his fuse blow when he was doing a hill test. He was lucky he still had the second battery to get him home. Lyric repaired the battery, and he is waiting to have the second battery fuse swapped out to a higher amp now. I won't mention what channel, but he is from Oregon. I don't think you would have a hard time finding him.

the problems lie in cheap low quality chargers, bms' that don't really do anything at all, and shoddy construction and cells. you have a big upswing in fires due to a huge growth in micromobility over the last couple of years combined with supply chain issues forcing makers to source batteries from less than optimal sources ie china.

I'm guessing the crush test would crushed till full failure. They would obviously do so in a safe laboratory.

I made my purchase decision because of the UL certification.

They should just switch to graphene batteries. Some bikes use them already they can hold more power and they last longer and if they catch fire at least you can put the fire out unlike lithium.

But what are those specs? How many feet can the battery drop and still be safe?

I've wondered about this scenario..A fully charged battery and rider starts ride at the top of a hill, is region braking threat to the battery?

What does this mean for converted bikes. Would the battery alone be good enough or does the whole system need to be certified.

I see a problem for the blue shrink wrapped battery packs.

Are Heybike Ranger batteries UL Certified?

Is Ride 1 up UL C?

I was wondering do electric mopeds that go 30mph and bellow do you need to register it?

Bravo for the detailed info on UL certifying Li batteries. I suspect UL listed batteries might cost more to meet those standards, but may be cheaper than a lawsuit, or a lost insurance claim. The challenge is finding a balance in the price of bikes (with UL listings) among prospective consumers.

I received my Wired Freedom last week and I emailed them and they said their bike and battery are UL Certified. I thought I saved the Email from them but can't find it.

someone needs to create a universal ebike battery discharger/maintainer.

That UL listing really helped with cellphone battery fires! lol Hey Buddy, hook me up with one of those sweet Bolton Bikes to show in my bike shop ....WIN ....WIN..

Nothing more than a rubber stamp that does not deal with the real issue of poor quality BMS chips. It is a calculated attempt to eliminate competition that often is higher quality. We need a much better standard, that the whole world can accept, than U.L.

can anyone help me diagnose a problem? my EBC model C is 2 years old, 3,000 miles, usually no problems, but this year i took it out of the basement to start spring riding and the motor shuts off now and then. only 2-4 seconds, but its scary. its usually with the pedal assist but once happened the throttle and it can be with front or back battery. must this mean its a connection near the motor? pumping the brakes made no difference. i have dropped it kinda hard a few times, no wrecks.

I want the whole bike to be waterproof not just the battery. You get caught in the rain your bike gets drenched it and all the components should be as protected from the moisture just as a car is.

😂😂😂 I don't use Chinese batterys I use USA lead batterys never had problems with it catching fire there just a pain have to make a special battery box or make your own .

Thieves target batteries if they can’t get the whole bike. I can’t help but wonder if these stolen batteries are not remanufactured and sold cheaply to unsuspecting buyers?

Reputable source, give me a break

Add $500.

I haven’t seen one instance of batteries starting on fire without prior damage or abuse. UL listing many times isn’t as rigorous as other testing standards in this country or, worldwide.

I appreciate the explanation of the different points that they test for UL labs. Unfortunately, I think the certification will comprise of nothing more than a sticker. Anyone can make a sticker.

What it means is the government is looking to control this aspect of our lives as well and this is a step towards making e-bikes conform to as yet unenforced regulations.

Thank God I make my own bikes and batteries. MYOB.

hey I don't know why but I can't help but not see you as a furry you know with like a fursona and everything not saying you are a but, dude I think it would be dope as heck to be all decked out with the Tron helmets and all the LEDs everywhere with some of your esk8 group ride buddies and show yourself at a Furry convention next time they have one nearby where you're at, see when you look at those backpacks that the esk8 people have with all the LEDs the furries actually have their own version of stuff like that, (look up over-engineered protogen fursuits) and tell me furries fursuits protogen LED furry art and e-bikes don't go together, only thing to worry about really is fursuit tails getting tangled up in smokes😅 but anyways I want to see the two communities murge 🤓

NYC citizens are now safe from dangerous e bike batteries, now the e bike owners can be completely safe all the time, even riding or walking anywhere or anytime in the city w/o any fear that any harm will come to them.