The chapel actually being locked can be explained by the use of small bombs hidden in the food.

This becomes even funnier with the Tea Party of Umineko Saku revealing that Natsuhi's design was actually a scrapped Beatrice design. Natsuhitrice when?

Thanks for reuploading this. No matter what anyone thinks about the theory, it would be a damn shame to have this expertly done analysis lost forever.

Me 10 minutes in: This guy is crazy Me 1 hour in: This guy has a good point...

0:00 Intro 2:16 The Official Explanation 10:15 KnownNoMore's Alternate Theory 11:45 Table of Contents 14:44 Chapter 1 - Disproving the ShKanon Theory 16:30 1) The "Even if you do join us - there are 17 people" Statement 30:06 2) Solving the Logic Error without the ShKanon Theory 54:30 3) Shannon and Kanon never appear in front of Battler at the same time 01:00:25 4) The Furniture's battle of love (The Incompleteness of Souls) 01:02:37 Chapter 2 - The Fictional Yasu Theory 01:37:16 Chapter 3 - Shannon = Beatrice vs Rosa = Beatrice Evidence against Shannon being Beatrice 01:38:58 1) Conflicting Red Truth 01:44:51 2) Maria's Testimony (The Golem Argument) 01:47:57 3) Shannon's Tattoo Evidence that Rosa is Beatrice 01:51:20 1) Eva's escape to Kuwadorian in Episode III and Eva's diary containing the truth 02:05:17 2) Beatrice appearing to Maria outside of Rokkenjima 02:10:12 3) Beatrice's inability to revive Sakutaro 02:11:30 4) Rosa is already regarded as a witch 02:12:31 5) Maria's ''split personality'' - like behavior 02:13:16 6) Maria's black magic interests 02:14:52 7) Rosa's connection to Gaap 02:16:26 8) Maria surviving the parlor murder in Episode I, surviving until the end of Episode II and being poisoned in Episode IV 02:19:11 9) The Halloween candy trick 02:22:01 10) Rosa's involvement in the second game 02:30:14 11) Rosa using the term ''Furniture'' 02:32:14 12) A drunk and emotional Battler getting confronted by Beatrice (Ending of Episode II) 02:38:07 Outro

Such a shame the original videos were deleted, Ive never seen an analysis as thorough as this and I cant even imagine how much effort mustve had to be put into it. Thanks for giving people an opportunity to see it!

Damn dude thanks for the reupload this brings me back.

Thank you so much Ior reuploading this, it's a very fun listen.

I remember watching this and thinking ‘hmm, I personally don’t agree’ but I also remember thinking ‘damn, this man really thought this through, I can appreciate that’.

gotta replay the game with this in mind thanks for giving me a reason to replay this masterpiece I love how the moment contradiction arises in my head you fix it like "Battler never saw Shannon and Kanon together" "how can he solve closed room in ep5 and ep6?" and you proceed to solve them well made video

I gotta appreciate just how brilliant an explanation for the final 17/18 people truths are. Interpreting it as Erika (the meta character) exclaiming that she is the 18th human, and having Battler respond with "Even if you do join us [here in the meta world], there are only 17 people [in reality]" just works too well. Especially since it's that statement which finally kills Erika. I don't think it's what the intention was, but that is still some masterful red truth handling.

It's my birthday party and I get to decide what we watch.

I love this video ngl,like i come back to it every once in a while when i just need someone talking about random stuff

15 minutes in and the guy has already made some hella bold claims. Outlined 12 whole chapters (4 more than Ryukishi) and says he can explain it with just three culprits instead of the entire board being bribed. What a fucking legend. I wish I was smart enough to solve the logic puzzle with so few pieces. This is gonna be a ride.

Thanks for the reupload

I swear if somehow ryukishi plans on making umineko gou with these theories disproving shkanontrice I will swallow small bombs with candy, drink lighter fluid and then ignite it.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”

Just finished reading volume 8 and this popped up in my reccomended. Thanks youtube, i assume i'm going into a WILD ride.

"Intellectual Tapdancing" I'm going to use that.

I just remembered something. Isn't Rosa the sibling who's knowledgeable about tea, iirc she was the one who bought Tea for Natsuhi's headache or smth during one of the early chapters. That fits as well i guess.

I also thought it was weird no one noticed that Kanon and Shannon were the same person and even if you buy they are literal brother and sister people have unique scents to them and they all live under the same roof for a long duration. I do think Jessica may have noticed, her performance of Pettan might of been a hint.

I think that honestly each arc is a possibility of what happened on Rokkenjima, ie. None of the games are "exactly" what happened, but what Battler or Ange thinks happened on that day. The simplest answer to Umineko's mystery is that one of the Aunts (Rosa, Natsuhi, or Eva) is the culprit, it just depends on which arc is the "truth", which is why the red truths actually exist. The story isn't meant to be taken as a multiple arc, rather as one large story.

Amazing nostalgic video, remember watching this years back. Do you happen to have the anime explanation as well? I tried downloading the videos online but the links are missing. Could I get them from you as well? I absolutely adore this theory and live by it lmao Umineko is my top fav anime

To this day, KnowNoMore's videos are the most brilliant analysis of Umineko I have ever seen. He skillfully manages to put all the pieces together in a logical and coherent way, creating a much more rational and satisfying solution than the original one. Even if you disagree with his conclusions, it's impossible not to see his passion for Umineko and the mystery genre itself. Over the course of so many years I have seen many people say that he's just an arrogant person who was unable to see the beauty and "love" in Shkanontrice, but I do not agree in the slightest. On the contrary, I think the people who have not fully grasped the spirit of the story are the ones who belittle the effort of other fans in creating intelligent theories as they look for the truth. Passively accepting what you are told and looking down on those who do not do the same is literally the opposite of what this story is about. Then again my favorite character is Erika, who is constantly searching for the ultimate truth and is so ruthless she's accused of not being able to understand love, so I guess I must also be unable to see the heart lol

For anyone familiar with the literary theory of the "Death of the Author", the idea of ignoring what Ryukishi07 says in interviews or anything else outside of the text of the actual novels is nothing outrageous or weird at all but the correct way to look at the story.

I’m always happy to hear a Dutch speaker talk about things that I like. It’s rare to find someone in my country that has read Umineko

you know what maybe this guy had a point after all

Edit (you to he): The first explanation already fails. He got the Red Truth regarding the six deaths of the chained locked rooms wrong. It never used the word people. The Truth was, and I quote: "These six are all dead: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa!" There was no red or whatsoever calling them people, persons or bodies regarding the "six" within the chained locked rooms from that game. Even later when EVA-Beatrice caught Battler in her web of red truths, she mentioned 15 names and declared them all dead in red. And again she just said those 15 and not those 15 people or persons. Furthermore she named three more persons that are alive. Battler, Eva and Jessica. So we have 18 names stated in red that participated in the second game. We only come to 16+Erika if the following is given: kinzo was already dead from the start as stated in red and gold so is therefore none of the 16 bodies. We are left with 17 names. Shannon and Kanon share a body, so we get to 16. This won't be possible if they were two bodies.

I finished Umineko recently. While a lot of plot points might have gone over my head, the whole theme is so schizophrenic that I think the author's main intention was to have fun with the whole thing by writing alongside the theories. Seeing all the theories people made while also referencing them as forgeries, I imagine he'd have feedback over what were the most popular interpretations. He struck me as someone who'd choose the best way to surprise everyone, therefore preferring to improvise with the story along the way in a manner that confuses the most people and brings more discussion about the story, feeding into the theme of forgeries at the meta level. Choosing this approach instead of planning everything in advance makes the story much more interesting at the expense of making everything more convoluted and harder to tie together. In short, I think he took a risk to have plot holes for the sake of reader engagement and I'd totally cut him some slack for it. I think the closest thing to the "real truth" is whatever theory is the one that ties most neatly with the whole narrative, even if there's a small plot hole somewhere. I find that the beauty of it is that the story is vague enough that there's merit to all these theories, and considering the game's themes, it looks like the author's main intention was to create context in real life (videos like these and the endless discussions) for the forgeries/fragments mentioned in the novel.

just started this video but as for the "official" explanation (and any others) from what i remember everything was battler trying to remember who he was and what happened on that island. this series uses alot of unreliable narration to confuse us and considering almost all of it happens in battler's head (while he is working through amnesia) very little can be trusted as to what happened each game.

I keep hearing it "Shitkanon" theory, lol

But how do you explain Shannon not being capable of love? That's straight from the novel, to say it's status is extrapolating and is not what Shannon suggests, after this analyst says we should be literal when he says Beatrice and Shannon are separate people based on Beatrice's red truth to Battler. (Be consistent in your own logic!) Also, the three-way lover duel doesn't then make sense. The novel never states that Beatrice too would die as she forfeits, only Kanon since he lost in the gun duel. The Rosatrice theory is kinda cogent but it too has way too many holes. And anyone who has to invoke 'burden of proof' like this guy to repudiate defending his theory is suspect. Besides, how do you explain Rosa and Beatrice being BOTH IN THE SAME ROOM SIMULTANEOUSLY AS TWO SEPARATE PEOPLE in the Episode 7 tea party when Rosa is killed by Kyrie in the VIP room? Bernkastel clearly states in red that that scenario is a possible truth. That alone kills this theory. George as a killer makes no real sense and he doesn't have a strong enough motive. Also, this analyst's idea that it's very unlikely that the baby Lion survived the cliff fall is ridiculous as the baby did according to the novel itself. This is confirmation bias and silly to suggest since the whole novel revolves around unlikely things occurring. The analyst's explanation of Erika not being the "18th human" when Battler says there were "17 people" in red is patently fallacious, because the analyst showed earlier in red that "person" means "a body." Thus, by hus own reasoning, this person could be living or dead, which blasts a hole in his idea that Erika can't be the 18th person, since even if dead she would still have a body and would still be a person! Frankly I don't think either Shkanon or Rosatrice are entirely correct, though there is merit to both, and though I definitely think Rosa's role is huge in Umineko and the novel suspiciously glazes over it.

So I'd this just battle in his coma trying to absolve himself for surviving a massacre he was apart of?

Love how polite the narrator is at 1:42:20

Thank you for the reupload!

My theory is that none of it fucking matters as long as my girl Ange lives a happy life.

Never really cared for this theory but I always thought the amount of effort put into it was really cool, though it attracts a lot of people who simply just ''hate'' Umineko's narrative unfortunately, I've no clue why those people stick around in the first place. Umineko at the end of the day is about building a happy narrative for yourself while adhering to the things you can't change and the effect fiction can have on people's lives and I'll always adore it for that.

is there a way to get part 2 unblocked? thank you for reuploading btw

Rosatrice is real

Kind of heartwarming to see a comment section with a relative amount of criticism against Shkanon 🤣 I mean, not that it changes the official solution, but good to see I'm not the only one who didn't like it.

Even if this theory makes no real sense to me, I'm intrigued by the fact that Shannon and Kanon are shown in Lion's world, someone could give me an explanation in line with the official? (excluding a poetic license by the author)

1:47:02 voice acting 10/10 hollywood should hire him xDDDD

2:15:50 You could also see the incomplete dress as a scrapped or ongoing fashion prototipe, reminds me of how dresses are constructed over a dummy.

I can't believe this guy is fucking dutch

You know, I have to give this part at least credit, haven't watched the rest yet, for being well-thought out and interesting. That being said, the bizarre hostility towards people who believe in the Shakanontrice Explanation is borderline comical. Like this video gives a weird vibe of like "if you believe in Shakanontrice you're delusional" or something, like there's a huge swathe of people who will defend Shakanontrice tooth and nail.

Ok does anyone I owe the theme during when Erika seals the doors. (I can’t find it literally anywhere.) [AKA 32:00 to 36:11 ] Nevermind I managed to stumble upon it. It’s “totem blume”

Masterpiece like i dont even agree with the theory its just entertaining

ok it seems i need a lot of green tea

I don't agree with this theory, because I think it misses the context for the 5th and 6th games - they're uses of the game board, not arguments about what could've happened on Rokkenjima - but I will say that the explanation of the 17/18 people thing as a way of establishing counterfactuals is absolutely brilliant and a wonderful piece of reasoning.

Something that's really funny is that KNM ended up predicting some of the deceptions R07 used in order to continue the Shkanontrice nonsense: "EP5 is a prank" - That's exactly the solution Erika gives in the EP8 manga, despite already being proven it's impossible and implausible to begin with. "Shannon was standing behind Erika so she didn't actually see her" - Erika states this almost verbatim in the same sequence, never mind Shannon being the one who brought her to the parlor, nor that she interacted with both Shannon and Kanon at the same time, multiple times, in fact. "Yasu is, actually, Sayo's surname" - Confession of the Golden Witch states that - irrelevant since Shannon started as Yasu's imaginary friend in EP7 with a slightly different personality, no one ever acknowledging her and then, suddenly, becomes the POV character for the remainder of the Episode. "Furniture has different meanings depending on the person who uses it" - EP8 manga states that Genji uses it in a different sense than Shannon/Kanon - and Confession deals with Sayo's body supposedly not maturing as it should - irrelevant because most of EP2's beginning makes it clear it's about social status instead of sexual handicaps. "The golem (Gollum) argument" - EP7 manga states it's how it worked, never mind how stupid it is. Not to mention how, in the manga, Genji suddenly becomes a killer (he's the one who killed Nanjo and Kumasawa in EP2 and helped Shannon kill the family members in EP4, despite being shown as one of the first to be killed). It's funny how people can be so predictable when trying to deceive.

When your school says make a PowerPoint about what you want this gonna turn up with this giant of a presentation

Those episode 3 "these people are dead" reds are interesting- apparently the 15 people one was de-redded in some later release... but the 6 people one wasn't. So apparently the dual identity doesn't apply to Shannon and Kanon, but to some other pair of people of which at least one is outside of the original six. P:

I really like his video. But my god why does he treat Ryukishi07 like an infallible god?

1:46:52 OMG This scene is sooo funny!

I know this guy

What about the ideia that all the games created by Beatrice were actually written by her, and she played them with Battler, thus making it possible for ShKanontrice to occur?

But what about the manga? As i heard (didn't read) in episode 8 of manga the official explanation is the only explanation that can exist.

I came to the conclusion that Shkannontrice is fake way before finding this video; until the very end of Umineko I was still expecting a plot twist making sense. Here are the contradictions I found, some not mentioned in this video: Let's start with the obvious, multiple personality bullshit: -A made up personality doesn't count as a person. That would be a delusion, and the red truth wouldn't confirm that, just like it made Kinzou disappear once we know he died. That vague definition of person/human came out of nowhere, was never hinted in the story ever, and Battler even confirmed in red truth that the number of people=number of bodies. We are given no reason to suddenly count aliases as people: "Knox's 8th. It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not PRESENTED!!", "All people can only use their own names!!" -"Knox's 10th, it is forbidden for a character to disguise themselves as another without any CLUES!" Except the the circumstantial evidence of Shannon and Kanon not together in front of Battler, no such hint was given in the first 4 games. (Not a red truth:) "No criminal should be credited with exceptional powers of disguise unless we have had fair warning that he or she was accustomed to making up for the stage." We're not told this until Ep7. -"No one else can go by Kanon's name! A different person can't claim that as their name!"... What else do I have to say? Even if we accept the definition of people as personality/after-ego, the math doesn't add up: -Assuming Yasu "kills" the Yasu personality in his head, leaving only the "Kanon" and "Shannon" behind. Thus Yasu counts as 2 people, solving the "17 people on the island" truth, right?... But in Ep4, he appears in front of Battler as Beatrice, and says in red "I am the Golden Witch, Beatrice." which could only be possible if Yasu was 3 people : Kanon, Shannon and Beatrice. And that would make more than 17 people in total... Remember: "All people can only use their own names!!", so the "Kanon" and "Shannon" personalities cannot claim "Beatrice's" name in red. -Let's assume Yasu is only 2 people (Kanon and Shannon). Will says "It is forbidden for a servant to be the culprit! ...Van Dine's Twenty Rules, Rule #11." Both Kanon and Shannon are servants: "There are five master keys, one for each servant". Who's the culprit then? Will also uses Van Dine's Rule #7 as a red truth in Bernkastel's gameboard, proving the rules apply there as well. -EVA-Beatrice's red truths at the end of Ep3 are awful. When Nanjo and Jessica are killed, it is said in red that "Shannon is dead", "Kanon is dead", "At the time of the crime, only Nanjo and Jessica were in the servant room". If the 2 people inside Yasu are dead, he counts as 0 people despite being alive? Nobody in their right mind would say that. Ep7 is a lie: -The whole thing happens in a gameboard controlled by Bernkastel, that doesn't respect the rules of the previous games, and red truth is barely used. Why the hell would you believe anything from Bernkastel? -Beatrice was "killed" by Lion's existence, but Kanon and Shannon aren't ?... Lion is shown in the manga next to Kanon, and later next to Shannon. -The baby who fell down the cliff was very obviously a boy: Natsuhi wouldn't believe "the man from 19 years ago" either way. Plus, assuming the baby survives, I don't see how the fall would castrate a girl without killing her. Also Yasu should have brown hair (unless he dyes his hair everyday without anyone figuring, master of disguise that he is). In other words, Yasu would look nothing like Italian Beatrice and Kuwadorian Beatrice, so why would Genji hide the boy from Kinzou ? He's into girls who look like Beatrice, Yasu's not his type lol. People say Shkannontrice theory makes a better story and doesn't ignore the heart... Excuse me? In this theory: -Yasu tried to get in the pants of the 3 cousins, even after learning he's from the same family. -Yasu cruelly betrays Jessica in almost all cases: he stabs her while dressed as Kanon in Ep2. In Ep3, he uses Kanon's voice to lure her when she's blinded. In Ep4, he was holding Jessica at gunpoint, forcing her to talk about magic nonsense to Battler on the phone during her last moment. Not cool. -If you accept "Shannon", "Kanon" (and "Beatrice", I guess) as different persons with a mind of their own, why are they taking part in the massacre again? Red truth says "The sin [...] is not between Ushiromiya Battler and Beatrice", but between Battler and Yasu. And Yasu is "dead", Shannon and Kanon are murdering their respective loved ones for "someone else" who doesn't exist anymore, that's how frail their love is. [Edit: You could say Battler sinned against Shannon when Yasu had already created his "Shannon" personality, but "Kanon" still has no motive of his own. Unless he shares the same memories/motivations/body as Shannon, bu then why would he count as "different person"? Using the same logic, Witch Maria and schoolgirl Eva could count as people too.] Here's my blue truth : "Ryuukishi wanted to use the "2 people in 1 body" (or "Shannon and Kannon are twins") trick for an accomplice (the murder of Nanjo and Jessica in Ep3 at least), but not the main culprit. He got carried away and framed Shkannon for the whole massacre, making them the culprit and Kuwadorian Beatice's child in the process. Epic fail." While it could be a red herring, he did use 「人」 ("human") and 「人間」 ("people") in places consistent with the Shkannon theory, and made them not appear in front of Battler together. But the red truths that apply to the culprit just don't work with Shannon or Kanon, and the two don't even look like Lion. Actually, many of the contradictions result from Shkannon being the culprit, rather than the two "sharing" one body. My thoughts on KnownNoMore's overall theory: I am only 70% sold on the Rosatrice theory. "Kinzou is not a name, but a title" is one of the very few things that I didn't find convincing. I, however, am 200% sure the official explanation is bullshit, for the aforementioned reasons. I also really liked KNM's explanation of Maria's perspective, as her tendency to jump off buildings and people talking in red IRL hurt my brain. The idea of Erika instantly dying on the beach in every Fragment except two made me giggle a bit. I wish KNM was still around and I could discuss with him or read his novel, I respect him for putting this theory together and almost saving Umineko's story in my mind. And the guys who keep shitting on this theory need to be reminded of Knox's 9th.

What happened to part 2? I wanted to rewatch this theory but I can't find it, was it taken down? :(

I wish this theory was true, its 100% better than the shit we got with Yasu/Shannon/Kanon/beatrice being the same person with ridiculous motivations..just bizarre

it was all rosaposting all along

remember the vase scene

I see it slightly differently- I think Ryukishi got cold feet partway through and clumsily changed the answer to the rather questionable Shkanontrice, leading to a lot of bizarrely stretched solutions that make it look like there's a hidden secret solution, which... I guess technically there would be, just not one he intended us to get. What exactly he chickened out of is a mystery though.

This theory could be true in an alternative line called Umineko Kotae.

This theory is in the line of Umineko Kotae.

baby do not survive cliff dropping

For real dude? This tale need explanation for 2 hours. Even this is part 1?

On the Erika Furoda statement (introduction in red) she says she is the 18th HUMAN. Which would be true if you count Kinzo - I can't remember the exact rules here, but if a HUMAN is a separate statement from a BODY, then all Battler is saying is that Kinzo is already dead when she introduces herself. Not sure that holds up - so this is more of a blue statement: An invitation for anyone with ideas surrounding this, to chip in or deny it in red. To restate in blue: "Erika Furoda is the 18th 'human' on the island, but there are only 17 bodies, because a body refers to a living person, with Kinzo already being dead as she joins the introduces herself." It doesn't really mesh in as elegantly as the "negation / killing of Erika" and her story, but it seems to be another plausible explanation for the red statements, that does not require Shanon = Kanon.

What is the part two of this video series? I can only find part 3 and part 4.

I love schizo theories (Attack on titan anime original ending truther) so I am HYPE to watch this

Part 2 has been blocked :/

Could you do an explanation video of : Umineko against the anime english dub? explanation including people who have not played the light novels just strictly against the anime. It is confusing as all my searches I've done have no answers to the anime. Thanks.

would we get part 2?

This is all correct

He has some good arguments against the original theory, but to be sure i can see stronger arguments about shkanon theory including explanations for the "contradictions" But this dont make the alternative theory less impresive, really

Where is the Part 2?

I'd be interested to hear his take about the Ange part of the story also not being true

My only critique of Shkaannontrice is when in Ep3 Shannon's body is moved, she pretends to be dead and then kills Nanjo. It makes no sesnse George grabbing her body and dragging it across the area, Battler should have called it (if he has more than 80 iq), Eva would 100% called it and killed Shannon (obvioulsy she caused Geogre's death).

This theory has been confirmed in Umineko Golden Fantasy.

The fact that some people still believe in Rosatrice worries me.

It's funny how his main argument to reject the ShKanon theory is the " 17 people" which looks like mistake in the translation. Battler said "that makes 17 humans" in my version.

2:00

why do shanon and kanon have the one winged eagle on their clothes

I really like this theory. Way less convoluted than the actual truth

doesn’t the red truth state the detective (ie erika) can’t be the culprit?

Are you German or Dutch?

Reupload 2 part plz, its blocked

I watched all videos and I ask... What even is Umineko about? :v

watching this, hope its not "scene x is a distraction made to distract us from the REAL ACTUAL CULPRIT"

1:50:45 god bless the rule 34 community, helping uncover evidence :P

You showed red statements that proved Shkanon are treated as two people, but Shkanon is still treated as one in "if you join there'll be 17". You proved the author made a mistake, I don't see any other way around it.

it is insulting to people with multiple personality to say that a personality could be so easily killed off

There’s absolutely no way that George is the culprit...I don’t think this guy has even read the series...