Nice to hear.

Please keep us posted on the results of the crossover mod.

@@j-rod6420 I will be reporting back.

I use a Minidsp SHD to crossover my Maggies to my open baffle subs. It works great! I'll be really curious to hear how the upgraded crossover works out.

Please keep us updated

It has been the best selling kit of the day for sure.

Can confirm: LRS+ with Hegel H600 is off the hook phenomenal. LRS+ with Hegel H190 wants to run real hot. They still sound good with the H190, but if you're kicking out the jams, you won't be running that long before you get into a protection/shutdown circuit situation.

@@ChuckD6809 I'd seen many reviewers saying H90 or H95 would easily power the LRS+. I auditioned it with the H390 (they didn't have smaller Hegels to demo) instore and it sounded feeble. They said that's what I had requested but they normally pair it with the Musical Fidelity M5si and that worked fine to my ears.

Got my focus on the possibility of picking up a used H390. New is too pricey for this retiree but could be done.@@ChuckD6809

Exactly.

Even the higher end models are built the same way. Look at the upgrade video for the 3.7i

@@hafgrim. You are correct.

It wasn't intentionally crippled, if that's what you mean. Rather, it was built to a price point -- if they used more expensive components, they would add several hundred dollars to the cost -in consumer audio, the selling price is 4X the cost of the parts. They describe it as an "appetizer" and its main purpose is to expose people to the Magnepan sound so some will move on to the more expensive models.

You basically gave a good argument against what you originally had said.

Plenty of videos out there on what that’s like

It's mainly removing a lot of staples from the bottom, only to find another row of staples. Then slide the sock up, unscrew the input panel, then you can slide it up further to access the crossover on the back and driver terminals on the front. It's not hard, just kinda tedious.

@@veroman007 NOT helpful. I googled it before posting. Nothing recent nor specifically for LRS. Please see next reply for example of how to be helpful.

There's nothing complicated about it, you'll see right away what to do. It's just that there are a million staples and prying them all off is a PITA!

Thanks for the feedback. Just a thought, but if you'd like a little bit of a hump in the bass panel you can add a .5 ohm to 1.0 ohm resistor to the tweeter circuit to bring the level of it down a little bit in relation to the bass panel. I think people often don't realize that there is still some adjustability to the balance.

You have the same experience I've had with the lrs upgrade. Another thing to point out is that since the bass is flattened out, bass extends lower perceptually and you can run into the limits of the Maggie's bass more often that without the bump in mid and upper bass.

@@hafgrim. That is true. When we were playing the 3.7i's in our room after our upgrade I liked them best with one of these inline filters to remove the first octave and then letting our open baffle servo subs handle the bottom end. gr-research.com/hi-pass-filters/

No, there are two major changes in the + and they have nothing to do with the crossover.

@@Josh442 What do they have to do with?

You still have to disassemble it to begin with.

You should try our upgrade to the 3.7i. It really takes that one to another level. No more head in a vise either. It sounds balanced from anywhere in the room.

Good to hear! I just ordered a pair of the speakers and Danny's kit. Hopefully all will arrive soon. Danny's kit is on backorder, the speakers are supposed to be in stock. Finger's crossed!

@jerrystecher6782 ..sounds like a great set up. I would love to ask you a few questions if I'm able to email you?

I found it dropped the output too much.

It sounds fun, but we are very limited on time and man power right now. We are struggling to get all of the orders out timely. Need a job?

Need someone in Canada

Do you need someone in Canada?

@@tallpaull9367 No, I need help here in Texas.

@@dannyrichie9743 Too bad I'm in Austin :(

I tried mine both ways, the tweeter on the outside sounded the best. Add an active crossover and these babies SING! I'm using the Rolls SX45 found on Amazon or Parts Express for $109. It is dead silent and takes the stress off of the amplifier, as the bass is sent off to the subs. Danny's kit will be here tomorrow.

The upgrade doesn't change how loud they play.

@@dannyrichie9743 Doesn't it reduce tweeter distortion at high levels?

@@Josh442 That's true, but I was referring to sensitivity level.

Does GR send you comprehensive instructions for the install, foolproof?

X upgrade is not available for LRS+

Yes, this would be very helpfull!

Peter Gunn. His work is good.

We already designed an upgrade for the standard LRS: gr-research.com/product/magnepan-lrs/

We have a different kit for the LRS. You ca see it one our site as well.

Yep, somewhere in that range.

Yes we do.

​@@dannyrichie9743 I see LRS, LRS+, .7, 1.7 and up on the GR site. Discontinued, Perhaps? (They are pretty old)

@@markwagner1997 We never added the MMG to the site. We just didn't think there was as much interest in it.

That's called edge damping. I've asked Magnepan about it, and they claim it doesn't do very much. Not sure why -- maybe they used the wrong material?

@@Josh442 Thanks Josh. I have done it it, and as i wrote, edge damping is clearly audiable. As dampenig of the magnets from behind is. Bypassing the resistor and stiffening the frame and Dannys crossover upgrade of course the same. Do you have other upgrades that works? Best, HH from Denmark.

@@BowmanDk1 I can think of a number, but by and large, they all involve pretty major surgery, such as building an entirely new constrained-layer baffle. But you've hit on some of the important mods, e.g., stiffness. The dual-magnet designs (20.7 and higher) fix this because the two opposing magnet assemblies reinforce one another. If I were building a new baffle, I would consider moving the ribbon closer to the midrange for better behavior (lobing) at the crossover point -- right now, the only reason they're so far apart is structural. But the mod that I think will do far more than anything else is bi-amping with an electronic crossover. I'd add DSP, on the woofer, at least. Better XO's and, of course, you can do judicious equalization.

We already designed an upgrade for the standard LRS: gr-research.com/product/magnepan-lrs/

I want to hear about your process,and I definitely want to know about the end result as I've been stewing on this upgrade since seeing the video.

Fill us in! I am curious about the panels being different in build. Are the crossovers identical in each speaker? I have my kit being delivered tomorrow and am really curious at what you discovered. And yes, how did the upgrade work with the overall SQ of the pair? I was thinking of doing an external box too... Make it plug and play to the back of the Maggies to easily move around.

I left a reply on my other post in this thread.

Removing the staples is a pain in the rear end, but not a problem. We have a little hand held stapler that drives in new ones pretty easily. You can pick them up at a hardware store.

Can you let us know when you do it and how it turned out?--how difficult it was, and how it sounded afterwards? Thanks. Please respond on this video.

Hopefully, I'm doing this upgrade Sunday.

@@thepracticalaudiophile Well?

First off, sound quality alone is worth the upgrade. The fact the tweeter panel is only getting high frequencies makes them sound crisp and fast with no cancelation. The mid/woofer sounds fuller and tighter. Some songs sounded full even without the subwoofers active. Still sound their best with subs, though. Now, as far as the wiring goes Magnepan is inconsistent with their color coding. I initially used their wires and ended up with the speakers out of phase. They had the colors wired oppositely on both sides. Just remember the inside leads are negative, and the two outside leads are the positives. So if your facing the back of the right speaker the leads will be T+ T- Mid- Mid+. It's easy to see which is the tweeter panel and mid panel through the cloth. Left speaker facing from the rear Mid+ Mid- T- T+. Remember ignore color coding. So if you replace the leads, the red (positive) wire to the outside and white (negative) to the inside leads. To my ears, upgrading these to Danny's copper wire made no audible difference to my ears. If you opt to just splice into the original wires, that would be fine also. If you are going to keep the original leads coming out of the speakers, you won't have to remove the staples. After removing the rear panel, just take a pair of scissors and cut about four inches towards the outside of the speakers, and then you can fold the cloth back and remove the crossover. Cut the wire as close to the crossover as possible. Ignore this and remove the staples if doing the wire upgrade. I replaced the rear panel with wood and used Cardas replacement connectors (so expensive) but again heard no perceivable difference. I recommend keeping the Maggie plate and posts or upgrade them to some higher quality binding post. I used the tube connectors as inputs on the external crossover box. I recommend these amzn.to/4atMvRc or these amzn.to/49GVYU2. The finished box could house both crossovers. Just make sure the inductors are all at right angles to each other. I have four binding posts coming out of each crossover and using WBC jumpers to connect to the back of the speaker. I made the top two (and speaker and crossover box) the tweeter inputs and bottom mid/woofer. Since there is no internal crossover in the future, you may choose to use an external electronic crossover. One final note: Magnepan in the future is thinking of offering all their speakers pure copper internal wiring and no crossover. Just have positive and negative posts going directly to each panel. Have fun. Once finished, these speakers will be legendary. These are end all speakers now. I'm ready for retirement.

@@thepracticalaudiophile Thank you for this detailed description of your upgrade.😊

I have been doing this professionally since 1995. The sonic improvement in getting the steel parts out of the signal path is not subtle.

@@dannyrichie9743He didn't ask how long you had done this 'professionally' , he asked if you had qualifications as an audio engineer. Not that qualifications mean that you know what you're doing.

@@analoglooney Yeah, I got a couple of college degrees that I can hang on my wall. What they really mean is that I completed the requirements necessary to get the certificates. The real education started after college.

@@dannyrichie9743Oh that is so true Danny. I spent years at college too getting qualifications in electronics which just prove I have a memory!. It took me 30 years of practical experience to actually do the job properly. Well done on your academic accomplishments anyhow.

@@analoglooneyThe only thing that worked for me after a Associate Degree in Electronic Technology, was a special Robotics accelerated pilot course. I learned a hell of a lot.

What did you think of the Cryo chords?

@stephenyoud6125 seriously worth the money, tember, tamber, and texture is immediately bolder. Like if you watch a stampede from a Ridgeline, that's one feeling. It's like standing in the middle of the stampede while it moves around you, with the power cords.It's all about your rigs, individual Synergy. Guarantee you won't be sorry.

@@sloboat55 awesome. The flat earthers will hate to hear that

@@stephenyoud6125 of all the things to think about, flat earth isn't one of them. Cool runnings

@@sloboat55I mean the guys Danny calls the flat earthers. The ones that won’t believe cryo treatment or even power cables won’t do anything

Right now we do not have the time for doing installation or assembly work.

You can only measure one speaker at a time.

@@dannyrichie9743 Fair enough. But did he measure each panel or just one panel, assuming that both panels had the same profiles.

@@dragocelander6671 They measure the same.

Thus sayeth the Lord..!!

Let there be light

The crossovers are the same for left and right.

Yes.

Magnepan deliberately tune the two panels to be different to each other so that when heard together they are complete. Check out the visual differences under the sock. Hear the differences when played individually.

@@spudpud-T67 Yes, but the crossovers are the same.

We designed an upgrade for the MMG a few years ago.

@@dannyrichie9743 ... can it work for the MG-12 Danny ??? ( i hope so...) i pull out the fuses and install Rhodiums Cardas connectors....

@@KillerKojak This upgrade only works for this model.

😓😓😢😥@@dannyrichie9743

Love to know sound difference are Danny’s kit . Also with your active crossover in play as well.

I have not.

Danny does have some videos showing how to solder and do upgrades which might be helpful

We get that a lot, and we do have a couple older videos like the Klipsch RP600M or our own X-LS Encore & X-Bravo. But we simply don't have the time or manpower to document/film the assembly/installation of every speaker that comes in or gets made. Plus parts availability changes over time, so what we film today may not be available in 2-3 years time, just like with those models we did make upgrade videos for, some of the parts we stock now are different. We still help walk customers through assembly if they get stuck or have questions.

@@hoth2112 Do you provide assembly instructions, diagrams with the kits?

We supply diagrams for the crossover, and I just drew a diagram on which tabs are connected to which drivers.@@spudpud-T67

Remember, the LRS+ is their least expensive speaker. They had to pare costs to the bone. As it is, they don't make much profit on it. They basically sell it because they know that some people will like the sound enough to move up to their larger models. But there's clearly a lot of potential there if you spend a bit more!

Thanks, we have had this issue in mind and are planning a new location for filming.

We are working on a system that will allow this, but it won't be in a compresses KZfaq file. From testing that we have been doing, we have realized that the audio clips only let you hear about 10% of the differences. Sound stage layering, sound stage placement, imaging, and depth are attributes that are lost in the recordings due to the playback method used to compare them, and when comparing live those attributes really stand out.

@@dannyrichie9743 I never understand why people think this is a valid approach. The most hilarious are those claiming to show the difference between analog and digital sourcing, after capturing on some probably cheap phone or USB mic and through youtube? I have heard differences between whatever A and B through the crappy PC speaker system I use even. But to make a value judgement on expensive hardware? Absurd. File downloads would be the only predictable approach.

@@glenncurry3041Zeos Pantera has flac files on Telegram. Much much better than YT.

EQ does not solve the problems at all.

@@dannyrichie9743 Not at all?

@@johndemmer3496 Nope, all of those ferrous parts, and budget level crossover parts are still in the signal path and still eating up resolution and detail levels. Those parts also hurt imaging, sound stage layering, image depth, etc.

@@dannyrichie9743 I 'll buy that. It's not all about measurements of frequency responses. Two can measure the same and still sound very different.

@@johndemmer3496 Correct.

We are not planning on it.

@@dannyrichie9743 It would be great to see you guys. Maybe next year.

We have an upgrade for the standard LRS too.

Magnepan for theatre, are you crazy? Lol

@@zackobrien2223 Hello I Built a wall behind the the Maggie's 2 ft in depth. then I framed in the Maggie's into another frame leaving 5 inches before the back drop . with a port so the sound wont bounce. all i can say is the imaging is unbelievable, I did compare both ways with the Maggie's set up the usally way and then the this unusual design. sound is incredible the theater sounds so much better. prior i was using very good B&W speakers. . My theater is a dedicated 7.8.4 Rm size 22x26x9ft high 2.35 ratio 12ft fixed screen . all built into a 10 inch concrete Bunker.

Inductors are nonpolar. You can use them either way.

Thank you

If you're amp can't drive 4 ohms, you need a new amp. The fact that the load is resistive makes them easier to drive as well. They do have low sensitivity, so you need a large amp.

Are you serious? A consistent resistive load in a decent amplifier is loads (pun intended) better than a capacitive load. 🤦🏼‍♂️

The kit we offer is for the pair.

Send one in and we'll take a look at it.

We already have an upgrade for the standard LRS: gr-research.com/product/magnepan-lrs/

Not my experience at all.

@@peterdesmidt8742 Well, we all have our experiences. In my case, I'm well familiar with the MMG/LRS, in all iterations.

I don't know about the GR crossovers, but they will do custom tweaks if you want.

@davevolz6138 Know of any resources/how-to's regarding how to do this? I have bi-amped (NOT bi-wired) in the past -- with separate binding posts on speaker. Just not sure how to apply to Maggies?

@@michaelsparrow4798 You have to wire the leads from the drivers out to a terminal panel with binding posts and use electronic crossover. Don’t know if there are any KZfaq posts on that.

@@davevolz6138 You could also use a passive crossover on the interconnect to each amp, just simple high pass and low pass like what Danny did. Parts would be cheap since the signal is so low. Probably be better in some ways depending on what electronic crossover you are using.

@@joshua43214 Back in the day, we were using either the brooks siren FDS 360 or the KMF audio crossover. It’s been a while

Yeah, Maggies love biamping. Better even than an improved crossover. Maybe because of improved electrical damping?

Have you heard them? There's more to speakers and speaker measurements than on-axis response. Danny points to some of it -- the excellent waterfall response (low stored energy). That adds realism to the sound. The dipole radiation pattern dumps less reverberant energy in the room, and that makes them sound cleaner in a typical listening environment. Dipole radiation also creates a pleasant sensation of depth, and reduces side wall reflections. Dipole bass is also smoother than omnidirectional bass because it triggers fewer room modes. These are an "appetizer" (their description) that's built to a price point, so you won't see fancy crossovers unless you install Danny's kit. But I think the important point here, and it's one that audiophiles sometimes forget, is that there is a lot more to the sound of a speaker than its frequency response -- and even frequency response shouldn't be flat for two-channel stereo, but rather tilted down about .5 dB/octave (what's called a "house curve"). A lot of audiophiles don't know that -- they think that you want a straight line -- but if you do that, when you compare the sound to live music the speakers will sound too bright.

@@Josh442 I’ve owned QUAD ESLs (57s and 63s) and am appreciative of the natural acoustic sound they reproduce, no boxiness, resonance nor bass hangover. No one expects ruler flat response curves but what is going on with the LRS+ is puzzling.

@@stephenc2738 It is, isn't it. Well, they're limited by the first order crossover. It's hard to make a gated near-field response measurement of dipole line sources, and you need to include the effect of power response, which accounts for 1/3 of the subjective quality. This design is going to have issues at the XO point because the width of the woofer causes it to beam, and because they can't use the 2 pole - 1 pole arrangement that Danny used (and that they used in early versions of the MMG, the predecessor to the LRS). I know how Wendell Diller voices these speakers, and he begins with measurements of on-axis and power response (as well as other parameters like impulse response, etc.) and then fine tunes by ear, often with the Reference Recordings recordings of the Minnesota Symphony, where they have 10th row center seats. So I'm pretty confident that he's chosen the XO points to get the most out of the speaker that he could within the limits imposed by the crossover and the drivers. It's never going to look like a Quad. (But at the other end, if you saw the measurements of the 30.7, you'd be blown away by the midrange, which is something like +/- .5 dB in the critical region. That will give even the ESL-57 a run for its money.) So basically, I'm not sure what the story is, but I do know that the LRS (I haven't heard the LRS+) sounds a lot better than its response measurements would suggest, which I find interesting and a bit puzzling.

Quad esl57's will do the same to you. Enchanting is the word and you'll be up all night listening to the damned things.

@@analoglooney Saw an interesting vid the other day on Audio Excellence Canada "The Worst Products I've Owned - A Glimpse in to an audiophile's nightmare purchases" where he discusses the ESL's and his love hate relationship with them. Including having the Mark Levenson stacked Quads with Decca ribbon supertweeter setup. I heard that once about 50 years ago. Did you know it was designed to be a single speaker mono system?

@@glenncurry3041Thanks for that info. No, I never realised the Levenson set-up was designed for mono. ESL57's will drive you mad, I can understand his love-hate relationship with them. I've travelled that journey too. In the end I had to settle with Tannoy Monitor Reds 12" from the 60's and I love them to bits. The Quads are just too fussy. Still awesome though, especially for 1957. I never warmed to the 63's though.

@@analoglooney My bad for not being accurate enough. The ESL57 itself was designed as a single speaker mono system. Not the Levenson mod. I got hooked on the Maggie planar approach. Got my first set of III's in the early '70's.

@@glenncurry3041No problem. Yes the '57 was designed for mono as you say. After serial no 401 the directivity and distribution across the panels was altered for stereo. I can understand your addiction to Maggies. Open baffles are addictive. The only box loudspeaker that comes close is the Tannoy monitor red/gold/hpd which can be truly hypnotic. I don't think the newer Tannoy's sound as good though.

No, but there is benefit in knocking out the first octave and a half and letting that get handled by a sub.

@@dannyrichie9743But how can you do this?

@@dieterleonard2309 Use an inline filter: gr-research.com/hi-pass-filters/

@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks, but I am using an integrated amplifier… Not everybody has separated gears 🤷🏻‍♂️

@@dieterleonard2309 That makes is a lot tougher.

No. If you look at the website they have a different upgrade for the non plus.

He went into the gating in the video. Dipoles are hard to measure. From my perspective, the only really valid measurement is in the listener's chair -- but then you're dealing with the specific room. So you do that, but you also do gated measurements and compensate for the lack of dipole roll off (they will seem too have too much bass if you measure them up close).

Yes, that would work. At 5' you may hear more bass because you're in the near field. There will be more lateral image spread between the woofer and tweeter at 5' than at a distance, because the woofer and tweeter are separated by a greater angle.

These were measured using a gated time window and zero room reflections. The reason the sweet spot is so narrow is because the drivers are playing on top of each other and causing out of phase cancellation in the off axis. They don't have to be that way. They can have a wide even coverage and a wider sweet spot. The stress in the tweeter becomes real apparent when you take it away.

OCD Mikey has done his own modifications on Magnepan speakers in the past. Past videos prove it.

Yes, I understand from OCD Mikey’s comments that his concern is over his perceived criticism of Magnepan as a company/design choices, not the upgrade. There is criticism from Danny, but I see it as highlighting the weaknesses to contrast to his improvements; reasonable

OCD Mikey has his own LRS+ upgrade, and Danny's kit negates it. Danny replaces and upgrades the stock internals, Mikey has a fuse upgrade. Dany's upgrade erases the fuse. Mikey is pissed.

@@philipteater3714 I watched Danny's video, and he had nothing but praise for Magneplanar.

@@michaelwright1602 Agree! That is why I say PERCEIVED criticism. On Mikey’s channel I commented: JUDGEMENT - NOW DEBATE - UNNECESSARY

Your cats will destroy these maggies, so look for something else.

Nope, we had both of them here.

Yeah, it's confirmed by Magnepan. They are tuned differently on purpose

I am close by and would be happy to help. @ericelmore887

See above

@@sepolanskysorry what do you mean look above?

I've never posted here before and am unfamiliar with how things post. I added your name so you would see the response. I'm not sure how to PM you with my contact info...

Yeh, they should sell them at cost and get a day-job to make a living.

@@EliteRock 👍😂

Or you could get a degree in acoustical engineering spend half your life measuring speakers have on hand 1 million million parts and do it for nothing