If you'll be adding auxiliary lights or other things which require a dedicated circuit, you might consider installing a HEX ezCAN device: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Zt2pgKZ-19-1Zpc.html

Makes me think that it would be able to put a ''ZFE'' at home aswell to troubleshoot all electronics. That every piece of electronics should come with some data to program in your home ''ZFE'' to add it to your system.

Ha! I love the cookies analogy! As far as that LED light problem, manufacturers have caught on and more and more automotive style lights are available now "canbus ready" with a built in resistor to mimic an incandescent light. It's a shame it isn't easier to reprogram the canbus computer to allow the lower draw of standard LED lights because by putting in a resistor it just wastes electrical power in the form of heat.

There are definitely days when I wish for the simplicity of an earlier time!

Thank you for this clear and concise explanation. Just last week on my 2008 / 50k mile RT, whilst riding I lost the RPM and Speedo gauges, also the ‘Brake failure red light’ and the ‘Front headlight’ bulb blown warning. Pulled over and inspected the bike (Wheels and brakes), then restarted. Other than both ‘low beam’ bulbs blown, bike was ‘normal’ with RPM / Speedo working. On replacing both lo beam bulbs, I found the plastic connector block to one bulb had a small bit missing, and the ‘blade connector’ a little loose. So I ‘crimped’ this a little tighter and replaced the bulb. No problems since. So I guess this had triggered the Can-Bus system. I now carry two spare bulbs...

It can be disconcerting to have your dash light up with warnings, but sometimes it's just a simple thing. Poor grounds, especially as vehicles get older, are often a problem with these systems. If you understand how they work, though, you can do a quick check like you did and then ride on until you have time for a diagnosis later.

It's actually getting a little easier now to find LED lights that will work because more manufacturers are putting a resistor in the LED circuit to mimic an incandescent bulb. When they first came out nobody was doing that. Still, you have to be aware of the issue and look for the label because there are no standards. If you still have those third part turn signal stalks it's possible the LED bulbs are removable and you could replace them with the type that have the built-in resistor and are canbus compatible. You have to check the available space in the stalks to see if a resistor-style LED will fit, though. Pain in the rear end, for sure.

It's funny, I was a mechanic in the 80s when computers first started being installed in cars, and old-school mechanics blamed them for everything. When their troubleshooting skills hit a wall: "Oh, the computer's bad!" In the 90s and 2000s most pros learned their lesson, but I still see a lot of DIY mechanics blaming the computer rather than tracing down bad wiring or failed sensors. The computers are pretty simple devices and they rarely go bad themselves. The firmware programs and the sensors, on the other hand, could use some improvement!

Great detective work. I really think the implementation of those power sockets is a flawed idea. The "keep alive" function of the bus is too easily fooled, and there is no compelling reason to set up the sockets that way. They could have used an inline fuse instead for that circuit and avoided these sorts of trouble. That's one reason I use an SAE pigtail directly to the battery for charging. If you didn't see it, I did my own discussion of parasitic draw here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/d86hjdp906qdep8.html

Did you end up being able to diagnose your parasitic draw fault?

Many of the RTs came standard without a radio anyway. You can certainly pull out an existing one, although the buttons on the left fairing would either have to be left in place or a new cover acquired. Maybe you'll find a model which doesn't have a radio anyway. Being a shorty, I have the factory low suspension model and it did not have a radio or the ESA suspension, both of which are weight savings.

Interesting when I bought my 2016 I had a version without a radio and was told I had the only one in Canada? I scrapped it on a deer!

Your problem is most likely not either of the things you mentioned. I'm not intimately familiar with your bike, but most water cooled bikes work the same way when controlling the electric fan--they are thermostatically controlled. Somewhere on your bike is a sensor which is informing the computer of water temperature. When the sensor data reaches a certain number, the computer instructs the fan to kick on, and when the temperature drops back down to a pre-programmed lower number the computer instructs the fan to turn off. To troubleshoot this simple system, the first step is to verify that the fan itself is functional. You can disconnect the fan from the harness and apply 12 volts directly to the fan connector once you determine which is hot and ground. You can use almost any wire you have hanging around, or jumper cables, etc. Just briefly touch wires and conform that the fan powers up. If that checks out, the next most likely culprit is the sensor. To my knowledge BMW does not publish the sensor specs, but they all work in a similar way. The sensor varies resistance over two pins as the temperature at it's tip changes. There will be a reference voltage supplied to the sensor on one pin (typically 5 volts) and that reference voltage will be modified to the other pin based on changing resistance. See this for more detail: autoditex.com/page/engine-coolant-temperature-sensor-ect-13-1.html So you want to check first to see if there is a reference voltage being supplied to the sensor. If not, then there could be a wiring harness, connector or ground problem. If there is, then you can check the sensor itself for changing resistance as the engine heats up using generic charts like the one in the link above. The sensor can be purchased from third parties for under $30. Now, if everything checks out--you have a reference voltage, the resistance values make sense, and the fan works, then you can turn your attention to wiring issues. The only reason CANBUS control would be involved is if there is something like a dead short and the system shut down a circuit. Presumably that would throw a code, however.

To answer your updated question, we use the CANBUS term loosely. The CANBUS network protocol is just a standard which allows communication over certain types of wires. It's used in many modern vehicles. The computer has the programmed values and the logic to make decisions about the data carried over the network. Your computer is not faulty. Amateurs often jump to that conclusion without doing the diagnosis. My first response should be followed for that diagnosis.

That's called parasitic draw, and you should be able to trace down what is causing it. One possibility is that some device on your bike is causing the CANBUS system to stay "awake" even when the bike is off. Other possibilities include an electrical draw from an alarm system or radio or GPS, or a battery which is faulty. Fortunately I have a video on this subject just for you! Take a look at this and see if it helps: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/d86hjdp906qdep8.htmlsi=IG8mKNwAhIm1zqoq

@@tinderboxarts Thanks! I will have a look. Three's no GPS or radio, batteries I have had several and always with this behavior, the alarm ... yes, there is the factory alarm, which I leave off in my garage in the winter.

Put it this way, you are probably going to get LED lights if you buy a set of aftermarket lights today. They draw so little compared to incandescent lights that you shouldn't have to worry about it. In this case you'll want regular LED lights, not those with a built-in resistor to mimic incandescent lights. That would draw more current with no benefit.

See this video below, too. I really think a lot of riders are starting out with a new battery which is already lost some lifespan by sitting on the retailer's shelf without a charger. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/d85incaD39vUl4E.html

@@tinderboxarts Thanks again. Done all you said, and both batteries obtained in the last 12 months were dry in the shop, filled with acid in front of me then charged fully before fitting to the bike. Had the bike since January 2012, so first battery lasted 5-6 years, 2nd battery 3-4, 3rd one 9 months. Always did what you said regarding charging etc with Optimate 4 configured for can-bus. Always disconnected the garmin sat nav in the garage, so concluding that the bike is getting Old! But like me. But the optimate pigtail will be fitted tomorrow and I’ll see what happens from there on. Excellent videos by the way, all good sensible information, and smart chargers definitely the way to go.

Hm, interesting. Well, you could well have a parasitic draw causing the problem, then. You might want to get a meter out and check, even though you've chosen to go the pigtail route. See this: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/d86hjdp906qdep8.html

After fitting the pigtail, the problems gone. When I check the battery voltage now it shows 13.6 or thereabouts after being hooked up to the Optimate4. Previously, going through the bikes can bus after disconnection the voltage would be around 12.6-12.75. These are average values because I checked then several times. Reassuringly, it now starts easier, so I don’t feel the need to carry the GB70 in the top box. Great videos and thanks again for the info

I doubt your problem is related to a throttle position sensor. The computer does "learn" parameters of various sensors and removing power for a period can cause that memory to disappear. However, there are pre-programmed parameters as a starting point and the computer will re-learn parameters on the fly. You could turn your key to the on position, roll the throttle lock to lock three times, and then turn the key off. That will help the computer figure out the stops. However, if your bike is just cranking without starting, it's more likely you have a different issue related to fueling, to a camshaft or crankshaft position sensor, or perhaps a poor connection in the harness somewhere. I'm attaching a link to qa video on how to test a throttle position sensor, but your best bet is to connect a GS-911 scan tool or Motoscan App and see what kind of fault codes might exist. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/itiFe7GnyrypY6M.htmlsi=4Hbr1vm1r4JdYmkp

When you say your fuel pump is weak, do you mean you've pulled it out of the tank and tested volume or flow rate? I didn't think BMW publishes those specs, but maybe I'm wrong. To replace the fuel pump you just need to source the parts and do the mechanical work. The wiring schematic you see in the video is contained in the Haynes manual, but I should warn you that they are not super detailed.

That is just the standard wiring diagram in the Haynes manual, which is a decent third party source. However, the wiring diagrams are pretty basic when you really start getting into the weeds.

It may be possible if all the old accessories are still there, but they often strip that stuff before sale. I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if much of that gear is installed on a separate fuseblock and relay rather than through the factory harness.

Yes, all the gear except the switches is gone. This one (2005) has factory wiring harnesses and bracketry for police equipment. I've removed the ABS, factory speakers, and Aux battery, and am looking for a wiring diagram to locate the seat heater plug. @@tinderboxarts

@@tinderboxarts Yes, all police equipment has been removed. The BMW police wiring harnesses are still there, as is a relay set under the rear box. Do you know if a R1200RT-P wiring diagram exists?

I'm not even sure if the police wiring is standard across departments and regions or not. However, there are several forums dedicated to police bikes and they would know better. One of them is on Facebook, so you might start there.

The LIN bus protocol is often used as a supplement to the CAN bus in modern vehicles because it's cheaper to implement. For certain things like radios, motorized mirrors, and certain censors it is becoming more popular. I have not had a chance to take a deep look at the newer models so it's possible the LIN bus is also there. As far as I know all the models still have CAN bus, though.

I don't really know, but I wonder if it's the ambient air temp sensor? I assume the GS has one similar to the RT, and on the RT the sensor is mounted to the body panel.

I have good news for you! You can use the factory harness for your Garmin Zumo without issue. I have a Garmin Nuvi set up the same way. I have two videos you should watch: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/r9x_nZyVuJ-bhIU.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/f5t4npB9s9zcoas.html

We caught up by email, but for the next guy: amzn.to/3p15kDf (04-09) amzn.to/3qZSZRD (10-12) amzn.to/37tiT8x (13-16)

The two big aftermarket producers of service manuals for motorcycles are Haynes and Clymer. However, I think only Haynes publishes a book for your model year at present. I'll warn you that the wiring diagrams are not all that detailed. They provide a rough roadmap though. Lookup Haynes and your model year.

Those are Ebay knock-offs of the Wunderlich crash bars. Truthfully, I think they are both made in the same factory. if you look on ebay under the RT model name you'll find somebody selling them.

Ha! Well, we can't blame that entirely on BMW. It's really a problem for the whole industry as engineers try to squeeze more function and performance out of existing systems. And the LED lighting industry got ahead of itself by marketing bulbs to consumers without considering potential problems. What is a shame in that instance is that automotive/bike LED bulbs are now being made artificially less efficient simply to meet the programmed specifications in the vehicle computers. That's the tail wagging the dog. It should be a simple matter to alter the programming in order to use more efficient bulbs.

Thank you for this clear and concise explanation. Just last week on my 2008 / 50k mile RT, whilst riding I lost the RPM and Speedo gauges, also the ‘Brake failure red light’ and the ‘Front headlight’ bulb blown warning. Pulled over and inspected the bike (Wheels and brakes), then restarted. Other than both ‘low beam’ bulbs blown, bike was ‘normal’ with RPM / Speedo working. On replacing both lo beam bulbs, I found the plastic connector block to one bulb had a small bit missing, and the ‘blade connector’ a little loose. So I ‘crimped’ this a little tighter and replaced the bulb. No problems since. So I guess this had triggered the Can-Bus system. I know carry two spare bulbs...

That's an interesting question. When you first turn the key there will be a startup procedure the system goes through as it comes "alive" and checks the circuits. When the bike is off it should power itself down, otherwise it will draw power and could eventually run down the battery. So in a sense it is resetting itself each time you turn the key. If you disconnected and reconnected the battery totally I suppose that could be called a reset, but these systems don't typically require such a thing.

Thanks for your reply. My 2022 S1000xr is on bmw shop now going for a month. I had this brake light faulty. They don’t activate when pressing both brake levers but they light up when hitting turn signals. Im talking about the rear tails. By next week, i will ask for a buyback / lemon. I cannot believe that they cannot resolve it.

@ad78 that's disappointing for sure. Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of incompetence at dealers these days. I don't know enough about that bike to offer a solution, but I would suspect the issue is basic wiring rather than a CANBUS programming problem. There could be a bad or missing ground or a bad turn signal switch, for example. A wiring diagram would help narrow it down, and presumably a dealer would have access to one! Whatever the case, that sort of problem would take no more than a couple of hours to sort out. I assume it's a warranty issue, otherwise I'd advise you to seek an independent mechanic.

@@tinderboxarts i agree with you. Nowadays, i dont know why they are hiring “tech” that dont understand how electrical works. Mid week next week and if the module will not cover it. I will ask for buy back or so called lemon

You got me! I spent 15 years in the computer industry in an earlier career. It was a wild ride, but I got weary of the corporate BS and eventually lost my interest.

tinderboxarts ahhh that explains it 👌🏼 I’ve been doing networking since the early 90’s. Glad I chose that over software development as it seems those guys have to learn an entirely new programming language every 5 years. Whereas the OSI model hasn’t changed in 40 years 😉. In fact it’s got easier as things like IPX, DECnet and token ring have disappeared completely!

Oh, gawd, yes! When I started around 1990 we were still using serial cables tied to muxes and 2400 baud modems on leased lines! X.25 and T-1 lines were for the big boys. I remember the heated arguments over coax versus twisted pair. Fiber? That'll never catch on. When the interweb heated up and I was playing with a linux server over in the corner there were sneers. I just added a second router in my home and was remembering how difficult it used to be compared to today. These boxes configure themselves now. Software went off the deep end, though. Today every corporate system and the internet itself is just a house of cards waiting for a stiff breeze. If the average person only knew!

tinderboxarts oh wow, I remember X.25. They were simpler times! Here in the UK it was all about ISDN which had 2 64kbps feeds. Back then 128kbps was super fast 😱

Haynes or Clymer are the two publishers of manuals with diagrams. The wiring diagrams may be simplified but that's all that is available. For a BMW scanner you'll want the GS-911 device. See these videos: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fZ2Ho5N5qNSWgpc.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qNmZo9p71dXaY2w.html

@@tinderboxarts Goodnight friend Sorry for the inconvenience With the GS 911 tool, I can code a replaced module with a new or used part when I see a need for replacement example: Dashboard ABS module Engine ECu

You see in that reference video everything it can do. To replace a computer module you may need to visit a dealer, that I'm not certain about.

I know it can be intimidating and sometimes there are things which only a dealer can do, but in many cases the home mechanic can get things done. It's a matter of knowing your limitations, really. Truthfully, dealer mechanics are sometimes as confused as the rest of us!