Up-Firing Atmos Speakers vs. Height Speakers vs. Reality

Рет қаралды 16,619

Күн бұрын

Do Up-Firing Speakers Work? Use headphones with these binaural demos and you be the judge! Go get your headphones, I'll wait....
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00:00 - Start
00:21 - Binaural Audio Explanation
02:28 - The Pioneer Up-Firing Speakers
02:42 - Preconceived notions about “bouncy house” speakers
03:37 - Understanding the Acoustics of the Room
05:16 - My Living Room 7.1.4 Layout + Issues
07:37 - Spatial Audio Calibration Toolkit
08:32 - SACT Torture Test in the Living Room
11:38 - Why the 2Khz dip is so important
13:14 - Why Andrew Jones designed up-firing speakers work so well
14:03 - The Dolby recommended upfiring module EQ
14:44 - My Studio 7.1.4 system tour
16:21 - SACT Torture Test in the Studio
18:48 - Garage Home Theater 13.1 Auro3D/ 7.1.4 Atmos Tour
20:14 - SACT Torture Test in Garage Home Theater
22:20 - Conclusion - Do Upfiring Speakers Suck?
23:46 - Adding Blu-tack Ears to the binaural head
24:13 - Why a generic target curve doesn’t work.
24:31 - SACT Torture Test system playback vs Reality
26:57 - An explanation of why & how upfiring speakers work
27:41 - Importance of dispersion characteristics
28:09 - Simulating the 2Khz dip to reduce localizability
28:43 - Narrow dispersion using flashlight
28:57 - The correct location for the height speakers
29:44 - Minimizing effects of Haas Effect
30:02 - Problematic ceilings and why upfiring can’t always work as well
30:22 - Upfiring precision vs height speakers
30:53 - Can you really bounce sound off a wall/ceiling?

Пікірлер: 80

@michaelsenko3177 4 ай бұрын

I have a 7.2.4 with the 4 up firing. They are all Klipsch Reference. It is very clear in video games and movies when the effect is isolated to something happening above you and the other channels aren't loud. It gets me every time and I love it.

@TheReverendSlim 6 ай бұрын

I actually used a flashlight on the baffle of those speakers to see where the ceiling bounce was aimed, then a little mirror on an extendable pole to see where the reflected sound was going from there. You can use stick-on rubber feet to angle them slightly to get a more optimal bounce to where your seats are, but you don't want to angle them so far forward that you hear too much of the direct sound either. Glad you're getting some use out of them! Also wanted to say: A lot of people don't realize with upfirers that your AVR typically has a "distance to ceiling" parameter so it can account for the delay of the bounce. You want to measure from the center of the baffle of the upfirer up to the ceiling and plug that number in. If you have an older AVR that doesn't have that parameter, you can still do some careful tweaking of the distance/delay in the AVR to get the arrival times aligned well. Older AVRs without that parameter just used a default expectation of 8-10 foot ceilings. The Speaker Pairs section of SACT can help with either of these cases, because you can adjust the delays until you hear imaging between the two points - the adjacent speaker and the location of the bounce on the ceiling.

@scruffkingman 6 ай бұрын

that's perfect idea low flat ceilings help bounce alot ...lol we try to eliminate or reduce reflection points but in this case it's encouraged

@docbob1182 3 ай бұрын

…so is there some kind of acoustically reflective sheathing available to encourage this intention? I’mma about to staple some aluminum foil to my ceiling (much to the chagrin of my wife)…

@scruffkingman 3 ай бұрын

@@docbob1182 well they do make aluminum ceiling tiles peel and stick kind

@BenjiGator23 6 ай бұрын

Fantastic video! I’ve been waiting for a video like this! And thanks Channa, now I can’t get that “Moving around the room song” out of my head 😂

@BobFrostV 6 ай бұрын

Holy crap you put effort into this video. Props and I had a really great time watching. Thanks!

@joentell 6 ай бұрын

Thank you. It took a while, but I enjoyed the process. I hope you listened on headphones. 🤓

@michael-4k4000 4 ай бұрын

Love you TechnoDad! Am happy you are doing so well!

@rdasarihyd 26 күн бұрын

Very nice. This is one of the best videos and thanks for your effort in explaining this so easily

@keepingupwiththejones2933 6 ай бұрын

Mikey😂😅. Joe you look like you gotten into really great shape. Hair game on 🔥🔥 as always. Nice job on the Christmas tree. 3:15 Joe whispering to Mikey 😂😅

@joentell 6 ай бұрын

Thanks man! I gotta get INTO shape. The holidays are here.

@TheLkdude 5 ай бұрын

Great video! fantastic Job! Beating the FUD!!!

@mikeortiz2139 6 ай бұрын

I really like to see the experimentation type testing videos. Especially from people that know their stuff.

@joentell 6 ай бұрын

I hope you got a chance to listen on headphones. The 2khz test was pretty cool. It's shocking how small head movements change the tonality of the sound.

@mikeortiz2139 6 ай бұрын

@@joentell I did. I'll have to listen again at home. The built-in headphone jack on my work PC is super weak so everything is low volume.

@jons9356 5 ай бұрын

🎵🎶🕺Moving, moving-moving, moving around the room...🕺🎵🎶

@mivanp2185 2 ай бұрын

I was going to move my upfiring to front heights but im going to leace it for now and make some small adjustments thanks to the video .

@mfkhometheater7742 5 ай бұрын

I've thought about experimenting with a dipole speaker for up firing Atmos. It would need to be situated such that the main listening area is in the dipole null and it would need absorption underneath. That should definitely make it sound like its coming from the ceiling. I have plenty of space to put something in the ceiling in the theater so I don't really have a need for up firing but it should make for an interesting experiment.

@michael-4k4000 4 ай бұрын

Bought the ELAC Debut 2.0 A4.2 in December to put them on top of my Kef Q750 for a 5.1.2 setup. I dont hear much sound coming from the ceiling, but it does open up the sound stage a lot, and also the dialog seems louder or more pronounced. I have a Kef Q650 center channel speaker which is awesome, and use an Onkyo RZ-50. The Kef Atmos upfiring speakers are too expensive, thats i went wuth the Elac. This is first time ive ever used upwards firing speakers.

@bikdav 17 күн бұрын

This video was very interesting. I'm using up-firing atmos speakers in my "less than audiophile dream" room. I didn't find my atmos setup to allow me to absolutely hear things overhead like what some audiophiles would like to have you believe is ideal. BUT, with the atmos speakers enabled, it seems as though they substantially fill in the gaps that standard 5.1 leaves behind. For example, when I'm viewing a well recorded church service online, it sounds like I'm in the church live hearing almost all the things that you would expect to hear live. With standard 5.1, I can hear the sounds left, center, right and rear. But, the effect of sounding live is seriously missing.

@keepingupwiththejones2933 6 ай бұрын

8:10 Channa busting in😂😅

@ErinsAudioCorner 6 ай бұрын

Ima let you finish!!! Haha. I love it!

@duckduck8240 6 ай бұрын

Everytime I go play in my weekly pickup game I’m calling the ball “Mikey” 🤣

@conchobar 6 ай бұрын

Bravo. This video was so greatly needed. keep up the good work.

@nonothing9685 6 ай бұрын

Great video Joe, just watched through. I have elac upfiring speakers right now, and this is my general thoughts on upfiring. Much like your example at the end of the video with the light, once you attempt to bounce them off the roof, you lose most of the localization. That, plus the built in dip on those elacs, the upfiring speakers lose all sense of directivety for me. But they fill the room with ambiance and noise in a very unique way that is still pleasing. I've watched demo's with and without the upfiring speakers, and I never feel like something is coming down from above me, but it definitely feels like more stuff is just above and around me. It feels like it increases my bubble of sound.

@joentell 6 ай бұрын

Keep in mind the location I said the sound is expected to come from. If you think the sound should come down from above you, you might be disappointed. As I've shown, the sound is supposed to sound like it's above the corresponding ear-level speaker. Does yours sound like it's doing that? Our Spatial Audio Calibration Toolkit helps verify that if you have it.

@phildavis3105 3 ай бұрын

Love the basketball and your “regular folks” approach to discovering meaning differences. BTW, did you name the ball Wilson?

@jamesdavisjr1086 3 ай бұрын

Nice video... On a different topic, i have tried over and over again to put my Marantz sr8012 in auro 3D , but I still don't seem to hear what you hear. You say that it sounds better than Atmos , I can't tell. What am I missing...

@joentell 2 ай бұрын

Your height speakers should not be closer to you than your ear level speakers or it will not sound good.

@scruffkingman 6 ай бұрын

I love how this set up is a "normal" house set up. How did you route your wires?

@joentell 6 ай бұрын

Yes, a normal house with normal house wiring issues. Lots of fishing and patching required.

@scruffkingman 6 ай бұрын

@@joentell it was not a sarcastic comment moat homes are open concept so it's a hard set up to make things work that's what I really loved about this video

@joentell 6 ай бұрын

@@scruffkingman I didn't take it sarcastically. I agree 100%. I think people need to see normal rooms. Viewers have been telling me they're seeing more and more amazing dedicated theaters on YT, which I think is cool to aspire to. I just want them to know that there's a place in this hobby for everyone else who doesn't yet have a dedicated theater. The enjoyment is in the process of troubleshooting, being creative, and appreciating the result of your hard work.

@scruffkingman 6 ай бұрын

@@joentell word exactly

@georgestephens2038 5 ай бұрын

I have those exact dolby speakers, yes they do suck

@stevevanrusselt4739 4 ай бұрын

I'd buy the 'Moving round the room' Song.

@duckduck8240 6 ай бұрын

Thank you for showing a HT setup in a less than ideal room. Really helps alot

@joentell 6 ай бұрын

I was inspired by TechnoDad's video about posting his new setup in a FB group. It would be great if I had a dedicated theater, but I enjoy watching in the ones I have now.

@ants9574 6 ай бұрын

Thanks for the video!!!

@mikeschmidt2339 6 ай бұрын

I have 8ft ceiling carpet finished basement not closed in do u think up firing will work for me also have in ceilings rears

@joentell 6 ай бұрын

Seems like a good room to try it in.

@mikeschmidt2339 6 ай бұрын

@@joentell thanks also what your take on the new Sony es line over a 4800h which is currently glitching

@christopherwilson6825 6 ай бұрын

When it comes to sound , all that matters is your budget, and how it sounds to you. Good video.

@uwsome1 6 ай бұрын

I thought I was watching The Blair With Project @ 11:29 in the Video .

@joentell 6 ай бұрын

Yup! I worked at the movie theater when that came out. 🤓

@Audiodreamer192-24 6 ай бұрын

I have those atmos drivers and they do work. In ceiling is best but the upfiring speakers do work.

@Boxkerp 6 ай бұрын

My up firing speakers with my Cinema 1200 soundbar did not work in my living room at all, but I have a popcorn ceiling in my living room, which many have said will not work. I had plan to trying them in my bedroom where I have just a flat ceiling, but the unit died on me.

@Audiodreamer192-24 6 ай бұрын

Hey Ya they don’t work with stucco ceilings because it disrupts the compression waves. I have the same atmos modules Joe used in the video, they work as intended. Nothing is better then in ceilings speakers for atmos but Dolby enabled atmos does work. 🍻

@Mjaybird 6 ай бұрын

Living room with open floor plan. Does it sound good and how hard is it to match all your speakers? I am in a townhouse and I make my space work for 5.1.2. I do need better heights or upfiring like you have but don’t know what to get. I could go Jamo for my s809 towers

@joentell 6 ай бұрын

Did you get a chance to listen with headphones? I'm curious to hear what you think.

@Mjaybird 6 ай бұрын

@@joentell I did with JBL earbuds and I liked it when your eyes were closed. Made me want to get atmos speakers and try them out

@marxman00 2 ай бұрын

The accousic delay of a reflected sound and ambience of the listening space creates .... mono. Atmos is totally pointles

@Iancresswell70 6 ай бұрын

I use some quite cheap elac upfiring Atmos speakers placed on top of the side surrounds. I also have an acoustically treated room but not on the ceiling. A British room so flat not that high ceiling. That seems like an ideal scenario for bouncy house speakers to work. And they do, to a degree. Not as good as directly placed speakers but still definitely worth it And given how little information is in the height domain it feels like the appropriate amount of effort

@joentell 6 ай бұрын

I like what you mentioned about appropriate effort. It also has to do with our human inability to localize height effects with high precision.

@JosephTongret 6 ай бұрын

This is an incredibly interesting video! I only have 2 channel setups but I've been considering an AVR for the living room and expanding to 5.x.x. The primary reason I've hesitated to is because it's a small-ish and far from ideal space that would involve several compromises. Unfortunately, it's just a townhouse we've been renting (for WAY too long). I've spent more than a year going back and forth on the idea in my head. However, I was in an accident a few weeks ago(I'm fine) and my car was totaled and I had to come out of pocket for a replacement vehicle for myself, so the decision was made for me. Now I don't have to obsess over what to buy since I don't have a dime to spend🤣! Seriously though, thank you for putting so much thought and effort into the content you make. This video was the example I needed to see of a real world home that you made work!

@joentell 6 ай бұрын

Glad to hear you're ok

@Kev-O33 Ай бұрын

i have 4 klipsch upfiring speakers. theyre a gimmick to me. they just blend with the speaker its on top of

@joentell Ай бұрын

I haven't tested the Klipsch ones. It's very possible that some work better than others.

@derrickmauldin4720 6 ай бұрын

What speaker mounts are you using for the rear Pioneer SP-BS22's? I have those same speakers and I'm looking for a good wall mount for them. Thanks!

@raphaelatienza 6 ай бұрын

Looks like WALI Speaker Wall Mounts on Amazon

@joentell 6 ай бұрын

@@raphaelatienza you got it!

6 ай бұрын

I have the Sony’s and is “ok” for me. Awesome tests 🙌🏼

@nekerrivera 6 ай бұрын

I have the Nakamichi dragon and I have to tell you that when is about up firing speakers and Dolby atmos bubble this this is legit

@adamjj85 6 ай бұрын

I was going to say watch out, you might get a copyright strike for Movin' Round the Room from Channa and bam he appears! 😆 Lmao, love the cameo. Excellent video and findings. You may have mentioned this, but I'd be curious if the benefits of the 2k dip would be negated by users who use room EQ if it were to correct the dip?

@joentell 6 ай бұрын

Of course I'm crazy enough to try to EQ the dip by boosting 2khz back in. It sounded horrible and squeaky. I don't think the speaker or crossover likes it. I would have to test it with a redesigned crossover to really hear it properly

@kenshinesca 6 ай бұрын

Upfiring speakers are fine if your room is setup right for it. They work great for small rooms or a living room with a couch in the middle of the room, the problem is a lot of peoples couches are on the back wall and the upfiring sound hits in front of you. You can add more angle to some upfiring speakers to help with the problem. BTW I believe the rumor.

@juliangst 6 ай бұрын

They're already disqualified for me because I want absorption on the ceiling which would make upfiring speakes useless

@MaestroColucci 2 ай бұрын

Yeah, they "do something" but not as good as ceiling mounted.

@georgestephens2038 5 ай бұрын

and by the way I'm not sure this test was helpful, since we are not there

@joentell 2 ай бұрын

It definitely helps to be in the same room, even when replaying a binaural recording. It's much more convincing if you sit in the same location as the place it was recorded. Seems to do something with how our brains have catalogued the acoustics of the room.

@stackoverflow8260 6 ай бұрын

It's more like TDad was crawling on your walls! 😂

@joentell 6 ай бұрын

Sounds creepy! 😜

@stackoverflow8260 6 ай бұрын

@@joentell and crawlies! 😆 🤣

@stackoverflow8260 6 ай бұрын

@joentell jokes aside Joe! Does YT play atmos sound? I'm new to all this and got this Integra drx 8.4, still figuring things out. I have a sony bluray player and when I played Dune it detected atmos..but not with YT

@joentell 6 ай бұрын

@@stackoverflow8260 YT only supports 5.1 on certain streaming devices. I've been able to get 7.1 by doing a few tricky things in encoding and using the Dolby Surround Upmixer on my AVR. I think Google is working on their own immersive format.