My ex's step dad was a retired KC cop. He was killed in a helicopter crash in the seventies. His wife, my mother in law, never touched his stuff after he died. It fell to me to clean out their house when she passed. It was really interesting digging through his reloading debris. He had clearly put a lot of thought into the .38 special. He had every kind of projectile under the sun and a ton of complete reloads from the 70's. His carry piece was a four inch Model Ten with a Tyler T grip and his back up was a J frame. It had five wadcutters in it with the projectiles turned backwards in the case. They were both in Bianchi holsters. Stepsoninlaw ended up with the pistols and I got all the reloading equipment and supplies. He had articles in magazines cut out and long notes on his loads and their performance. The boxes of reloads were labeled with complete load info. He had some lead hollow point semi wadcutters loaded with old school copper gas checks. Those according to his notes were supposed to clock in the 900's. They are extremely unpleasant to shoot in my model 36. I carry wad cutters in it quite often. It's deadly accurate with them.

This is easily one of the best retailer channels on YT. The production values are outstanding guys.

My grandfather was an LA county Sheriff, he used 38sp wadcutter in his gun, i have it today and have is for home defence, and use wadcutters, good for him - good for me.

People act like a wadcutter is harmless.Like if you get hit, you can shrug it off "...*well, that wound channel is not very big. Thank God it wasn't a hollw point, or I would be in real trouble right about now."* Ludicrous.

The common response I've always gotten when my non gun friends have seen my 38 wadcutters is "Are those blanks?". Lmao

A U.S. Border Patrol Inspector Back in the day (we were called “PI’s” back then) was attacked by a knife wielder whom he shot with a wadcutter. (He had forgotten to load duty rounds after practicing.) Turns out that a full wadcutter, even at low velocity, was a better stopper than the issue 38/44 round nose lead bullet. (The 38/44 cartridge would be called a “+P” round today.) Underwood and Buffalo Bore now load full wadcutters at approximately 1,000 fps. The original wadcutters velocity was less than 700 fps.

Absolutely love all the revolver coverage. There's only so many videos about the same copy paste poly wonder pistols you can watch. Keep up the great work.

I was a LEO, in the 70s. My second firearm was a stainless S&W Chief Special 2"bbl. in 38 special. I reloaded my own woodcutter rounds ( a little hot, but less than +P). I used hollow based 148grn lead Wadcutter slugs. Thing is, I'd reverse load the slugs, so that the hollow base was forward. Now this firearm was meant to be a "get you off me" type tool. It was meant to be used either "in contact"or " less than 5' " range. I've never been disappointed with a wadcutter.

My grandfather was a Charleston SC Police officer from the late 50s through the 70s. He told me straight up after watching round nose .38s bounce off a windshield during an incident, he and several others switched to wadcutters. Regulations be damned. And apparently when needed they worked like a charm. They weren't allowed to carry anything other than .38s until the early 70s.

Also: wadcutters are less likely to be deflected from a"curved surface" when struck from an oblique angle; it`s hard edge tends to dig-in.

Just ordered 50 rounds of fiochi wadcutter! You are very compelling, sir! Thank you! I didn’t even realize that of course a 38 hollow point can’t expand in a target flying out of a 2 inch barrel. You may have just saved me from a potentially terrible case of over penetration that I hope never occurs.

Years ago I carried hollow base wadcutters inverted in the case. At self defense ranges they were very accurate. They expanded quite nicely.

I've been carrying a snubbie .38 for many years now. The ammo I keep in it is from my own handloads, using 148 grain "Double Ended" wad cutters ahead of 3.5 grains of Red Dot powder. Out of my Taurus 85, those clock at an average of 935 FPS. Those will do major damage to a criminal. You should see how easily those same rounds will down wild pigs.

I don't even want to think about how much $ i've spent with your company over the past 7-8 years, but im glad to know my ammo supplier is as knowledgeable as they are reliable.

My favorite .38 Special load (even for S&W m36) is a unjacketed lead full wadcutter weighing 158 grains at 850 or so fps. The bullet is designed to be loaded like a regular bullet, has a front and a back, but the front is very lightly tapered to allow it to clear the cylinder forward of the chamber. Works like a wadcutter, as you said. Deeper penetration.

Great video answering alot of questions about ammo you can't find no where else. Thanks

I’ve used 38Spl plated wadcutters for over 30 years as a defense load. 900 FPS. Can’t beat em. “Your honor, I had my target ammunition loaded in my revolver.”

this youtube channel is reason enough to shop at lucky gunner. keep up the good work.

Great points made here. I've seen your ballistics tests with hollow points from a snub nose. With the inconsistency of hollow points opening up due to low muzzle velocity and the high recoil of standard and +P rounds, you helped me a lot with this video. I will be using wad cutters in my new snubby. I appreciate the info. Fantastic job young man.

This was an extremely interesting and educational video. I have read a lot of the posts here and am amazed at the almost flippant attitude with regards to stopping power. I have a S&W 36 (circa 1966) and am in my mid 60's. Also I'm handicapped. I've only pointed a loaded gun at someone once and it scared me. Don't get me wrong, I would have shot (if necessary) if the police hadn't arrived. Thank God I didn't have to. Maybe I'm just a wuss but killing someone (in self defense) would be hard to live with. Many years ago I bought a book by Massad Ayoob (hope I got the spelling correct) titled "In The Gravest Extreme". If anyone chooses to carry or keep a firearm for self defense this is MUST reading. I keep my Smith loaded with wadcutters and try to practice when I can. I ain't no tough guy, but I ain't goin' down without a fight. Not to put anyone down, good luck with your myriad of different loads. Hope they work for you all. Thank God we live in a country whose Constitution gives citizens the privilege to be armed.

In the 1970s I carried hollow based wadcutters loaded backwards. It's like a super hollow point. You have to hand load to get these. Try some on a soft target.

I hope to see a video about the load I was told to carry in my LCR, the 158g semi wad-cutter. This channel is awesome

Your videos are well organized and presented with objective statements based on stats and specs.

I carried a snubbie .38 Special years ago with 148 GR Hollow Base Wadcutters loaded in backwards to form a HUGE holllowpoint. These were loaded to give 800 FPS from a 2" barrel. I believe the rounds were called Phantoms and I bought them in Huntington Beach CA from a range called The Firing Line. They carried some mom and pop local ammo makers stuff I never saw anywhere else. The accuracy was good and recoil was not bad at all from a 2.5" S&W model 10. But you nailed it for my back up ammo was Federal 38+P 158 GR LSWCHP and those were a little snappy but managable. Thanks for the video, good info.

3:56 If you guys watching don't know already,the cartridge that has "CBC" written on It(between those from Winchester and Federal)is the Magtech one...The Brazilian ammunition Company sells their product outside Brazil under the Magtech name😉

158 grain soft lead semi-wadcutter for the win! Been carrying them since the 1970s.

The best data presentation of any tester. Please keep it up.

You are by far the best gun KZfaqr to date. Videos are interesting, to the point, and a lot of good sense witch is lacking today by most. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for the effort you put in your videos. Regards from Europe....

great content... I'm always impressed with the videos on this channel and look forward to the next one. While I'm not that recoil sensitive at my current age and carry a semi-auto, I think this is good counsel for some of the very light alloy revolvers. thanks again!

One of the best channels, forreal. Keep it up yall.

I deeply appreciate the work and research you put into your videos. Thank you!

Great info. Had a friend hand load mine for my 38 S&W 2 in revolver carry weapon. Close range works 👍

The one thing that maybe being overlooked about wad Cutters and their flat front, Is that you cannot compress blood or water. And with that, you tend to force a hydraulic wave in front of the bullet as it passes through tissue. That's the reason why most heavy bullet bear loads are hard cast lead with a flat face. It tends to push the liquid in tissue against itself. Causing a ton of damage without expansion, and it does not hinder penetration because of the weight of the bullet itself.

sometimes u just wanna be able to tell a jury that you shot your wad all over a home invaders face

Really liked this video. I'd never heard this about wadcutter before. Cool!

Very interesting info of the wide variation in speed from one brand to another. I Will remember to get Winchester FWCs. Decades past, we used to hand load 'Hollow Base' WCs, backwards so that the hollow faced forward. Kinda like a really giant hollow point. They seemed to shoot pretty well at close ranges. Never had a real need to fire in anger, as they say. There was a company years ago that factory loaded them.' Hydra-Shok', maybe. Maybe they were the ones that used a lead bullet that had a post in the center that was supposed assist in opening, or? something.

On our horse ranch we were raised on semi-wadcutters, made by dad, and later by us, using type metal, like you use for type setting. (dad was also a printer on the side)

Porter greetings! 🤩 Well, I didn’t really give it much thought at the time, but when I found Police reload wadcutters I had to buy some for the future. I didn’t even have a 38 Special at the time. 🧐 I eventually got 2 and went to town testing and practicing with them. I mostly carry my 38 for self defense, but will have it with me no matter what! Thanks for the info. 🥰🇺🇸✌️

Crazy that a ammo dealer puts together such great videos.

Some years ago I was helping an extended relative go thru her aunt n uncle's house after they both passed. He was a retired police office and forensic investigator and I came across a report he had written in the 60's concerning wadcutter use for police duty weapons. The report cited numerous cases where shots failed to penetrate front/rear Windows of vehicles, tended to ricochet more when the round hit an angle surface. It also had info about several officers seriously wounded trying to reload using speed loaders because the rounds didn't load as neatly as standard issue round nose ammo. The recommendation was wadcutter were not authorised for duty carry and reserved for practice ammo only. Keep in mind this was for a single police dept in the late 60's and most of the cases included in that report were documented cases in that state. Some of the cases listed were dated to the late 1940's. Wish I had a copy of his report, it was very interesting read. At the time I was a semi auto only guy so it was a neat "historical" read for me.

Back in the 70s, I hand loaded home defense rounds by loading a HOLLOW BASE wad cutter backwards with a light 38S load. Super low speed expansion and low penetration on walls and family members that are behind the intruder. Normally, the hollow base expands to grip the rifling giving more spin from a short barrel. Like a Minne Ball or a pellet. Do a gel test on this and you'll be surprised. I keep an old model 19 S&W loaded with them just for home defense. If I need to reload, I have my Kahr 45. Not as safe in my home, but neither is the intruder.

Solid helpful point about reloading and ammo companies that load their waddcutter spicy, thanks

I don't know if anybody sells these anymore but back in the 80s I bought some jacketed wad cutter bullets for reloading my 38. I loaded some hot 357s with some and they really toke out a water jug.

Interesting. I'm looking forward to your test results.

Years ago I hand loaded some hollow based wadcutters backwards in .357 cases for use in my 2 1/2" S&W model 19. Much easier to shoot than a normal .357 load and boy did they expand! I was looking for something that wouldn't go through a wall yet still perform well.

Excellent video! The Wad Cutter definitely has it’s advantages.

I hand load all of my ammo these days. One of my favorites is a hollow-based wadcutter loaded backwards over 3.5 grains of Red Dot in .38 Special. At 50 feet, in ballistic gelatin, it opens up to around .70 caliber, and causes awful-looking splits all through the gelatin. A few years ago, I was pig hunting, and shot one with one of those rounds. The pig dropped like I had flipped a switch - from a lung shot. Upon field dressing the pig, I discovered its lungs and heart were practically liquified by the hydrostatic shock.

I recently acquired a snubby. Took your advise and bought some wad cutters. 148 gr. I have to say that you nailed it. It was a very enjoyable shoot. The felt recoil on a 1911 is like a rolling feeling. A smaller gun has a snap. This felt more like a small bump. I could have shot all day with no discomfort. It will take a little more range time to get use to the trigger but I don't mind a heavy trigger on a defense gun. I got rid of shooting left pretty quickly but found that I'm shooting a little high. I'm sure that's alignment. I'm going to be very confident with this round and gun as a carry rig.

While I don't know the comparative effectiveness of them, my uncle was a police officer in the 70s and 80s. He was sold on wadcutters for their "sheer manstopping power". He loaded his own rounds and to this day I still fear the very idea of them. He super hot-loaded .357 magnum rounds for his Colt Python he called "cannon wadstoppers" that turned out over 1,800FPS. Everything I ever saw him shoot on his range that was thicker than 4 inches or so, the rounds would tumble and cause horrific wound channels often splitting the round in two or three pieces.

Although it is missed in conversation, the wadcutter design places more of the projectile shoulders in contact with the lands and grooves. This gives the projectile a faster resulting spin and a quicker stabilized projectile. Much like the Manlicher Carcano that killed Kennedy (or so they say). It was a long round with a slight rounded tip. Once it hit you it tumbled which made it additionally dangerous. Watdutter is more accurate at 21 feet than most other rounds since it has a lower powder load most of the times. If you get to see a 9mm coming out of a semi auto you will see the tip of the bullet gyrating until it gets out far enough for the spin to take hold. In a wadcutter it simply comes out spinning much truer. Great for self protection IMHO

Great videos. I do ask you to reconsider one thing. Hard cast wadcutters from Buffalo Bore and Underwood. If you have a revolver in 38 special, 44 special, or 45 Colt then you have a great shooting caliber. Is a hollowpoint with those calibers going to expand if shot from a "snub type" barrel......maybe. These hard cast wadcutters hit like a truck!

Flat nose ammo like wadcutter, semi-wadcutter (and HP) track straight through flesh. Round nose (most FMJ) will veer, which isn't ideal for self defense.

3.2 grains of 231 in .357 cases. Nice target rounds. Good for teaching new shooters.

You do a great job explaining these issues!

I joined my PD in the 70’s and the standard round was the .357 semi wad cutter. We latter adopted the JHP in the early 80’s.

Absolutely agree that a solid full wadcutter out of a short barrel revolver is a terrific defensive load. Hard cast 148-gr at 800-fps is better than any hollow point option, no question. Better yet is a 168-gr Keith LSWC at 750-fps but this topic is full wadcutters and I am in full support of the theory. You fellas at Lucky Gunner are doing an amazing job. Thank you.

If you want to get a more effective wadcutter loads, handload them yourself. It's fun, economical, and educational. They're also easy to cast your own to save even more $.

The are great rounds for self defense. That and the semi wad as well. Full wads were the top choice of practice and cerification ammo in law enforcement for years during the primary revolver days. Plus many of those officers especially the departments that officers buy their own gun and ammo kept wads in unit for extra ammo in emergencies.

loading wadcutters with a speedloader is hell

Excellent informative quality video, I'm glad I am a subscriber.

Jim Cirillo, of the NYPD Stakeout Squad, was a well known proponent of the wadcutter bullet for defense.

wadcutter my fav over 20+ years defence round and a gem in my old taurus 4" 38 special revolver cheap and effective

Back in the 1960s, my grandfather used to load .38 Spcl., .357 Magnum, and .44 Magnum hollow base wadcutters with the projectile in reversed for self-defense, and many of the local LEOs loved them. It would leave a devastating wound because of the extra expansion.

That might be a good projectile for .32S&WL. It would be interesting to try WCs in a lever action rifle to evaluate feeding and terminal ballistics.

If wadcutters are considered sufficient with their lighter loadings, would it be possible to compare them with older rounds, such as .32 S&W long and .38 S&W that were valued for their accuracy and used by US police departments? The .38 S&W Super Police was nearly identical to the .38/200 that the British used as a military round for 40 odd years, despite its plodding muzzle velocity. I read a report somewhere that one of the most effective rounds for stopping attacks was a .32 calibre so these older rounds might be better home defence rounds than modern thinking allows?

I've seen test results for wadcutters in gelatin blocks. They look to be very effective penetrators in soft tissue and they also would be likely to crack ribs upon impact. It seems to be an effective performance profile.

BuffloBore uses wadcutters in one of there standard pressure 45 LC. "Anti-personnel" rounds. I believe it started with there .38 series of the same name. The 45LC is definitely not low recoil. They push it to the max of the standard pressure envelope. I also notice that they have come out with a hollow point version since. Based off your statements that probably why the HP version emerged.

I'm starting to think that maybe YOU have the best gun channel on KZfaq.

The Thompson LaGarde tests agree with everything you said.

Another excellent video from LG!

Just curious here, would you happen to have statistics on average velocity when it comes to the same brands but in a 3"-4" barrel to see how much difference it really does to add an extra inch to your barrel if you catch my drift.

Good commentary Chris. As you know, I carry WCs in my airweight snubs, and for all the reasons you noted, and more.

hollow base wad cutters will tumble very quickly upon impact if loaded hollow end out. the heavy back end will pass the lighter hollow end almost immediately upon impact.

No idea when I got them, but I just opened a box of .38 Spl thinking it was regular old bullets. Never been more confused in my life. Thanks for explaining just what in the hell I had a box of, since I'd never heard of this kind of bullet! 🤣

Was expecting/hoping for Gelatin Tests. Thought I heard you mention, but didn't see any. Sure would like to see that. Thanks

Video is about wadcutters for defense, doesn’t show wad cutter in gel. 😐

Semi wad and the semi wad hp also make excellent self defense rounds with reduced recoil and good wound channels without fear of over penitrating

you guys have a really good informative channel. Thx...

A cop friend uses wadcutters in his personal carry gun, so I was wondering. Thanks for this video.

Back in police revolver days, some Philly/Detroit/etc. cops working in really bad "hoods loaded up with wadcutters for the flat face frontal shock disabling effect it had on deserving miscreants. Gnome Sane ?

Semi-wadcutters are a good choice too I think. Use those in woods guns too

when I did carry a snub nosed revolver, I used to load my rounds with a 148 grain hollow based wadcutter, but it was inverted. which means that the hollow base was face forward. they would expand and left rather nasty wound channels.

Try a HBWC loaded in backwards. I call it a "Portobello". Works real nice if you notch in a couple grooves about 3/8" , Guaranteed expansion and if you load your own, depth of penetration is adjustable per charge.

I like 240 grain semi- wadcutters in my S&W Model 69 .44 combat magnum and 200 grain semi-wadcutters in my Charter Arms Bulldog ,44 special (EDC) revolvers.

You deserve much more subscribers!

Not sure how KZfaq knew to recommend this to me but it was very interesting. Back in the 70's I was a US Air Force Security Police Commander and we finally got clearance to switch to a full powder load wad cutter bullet after several incidents of our previous .38 FMJ rounds having disturbingly low capability to take down the bad guys. The need to have the bullet actually do its job overcame the concerns of collateral hits on by-standers or our cops shooting themselves or each other while practicing their quick draw while on duty. Hard to believe how often that happened. The wad cutters were selected because hollow points are banned by the Geneva Convention. Interesting side note - since I was also a pilot you may be interested to know that on some flights we carried a compact .357 in an ankle holster with the first two rounds being bean bag bullets (we really wanted to avoided shooting our own plane out of the sky) but followed by three unjacketed hollow points. Geneva Convention was determined not to apply since an unruly/deranged passenger or self-appointed hijacker/terrorist was not an "enemy combatant."

I’ve read many - but not all - of the comments posted to this thread. A lot of them question the defensive viability of lead wadcutters fired from .38 Special revolvers . . . especially from snubbies, with approximately two-inch barrels. Chris is absolutely right, often the velocity achieved from such short barrels is insufficient to ensure hollow point expansion. In addition, in some jurisdictions (New Jersey, for example), it’s generally illegal even to possess hollow point ammunition (no, I’m not kidding). A little history lesson might be valuable at this point. The NYPD’s renowned Stakeout Squad was, a few decades ago, the small and distinguished unit that frequently had to deal with the Big Apple’s most dangerous felons. One of the stellar detectives assigned to this squad was the legendary Jim Cirillo (you’d be wise to Google him), who compiled a peerless record of arresting or killing murderous criminals. In fact, Cirillo was compelled to terminate several really desperate and vicious crooks and, normally, his weapon and ammunition of choice were a .38 Special revolver (usually either a snubbie or a bull barrel, four inch, Model 10/M&P) loaded with lead wadcutters (which we would now designate as +Ps). Basically, Cirillo utilized the so-called FBI, Chicago, Dallas, or Secret Service load. I’m not suggesting that .38 Special +P wadcutters are always as effective as excellent JHPs (such as, short barrel +P Gold Dots), when fired from a 1.875 inch J Frame’s barrel (or even a 2.25 inch SP-101). However, I am asserting - based on a hell of a lot of PROVEN history - that .38 Special +P lead wadcutters are a very reliable, repeatedly demonstrated, and quite effective defensive round for use from snub nosed revolvers AND that they are essentially “pre-expanded.” I carry hollow points in my SP-101, but I’d far prefer an excellent lead wadcutter to either a round nose FMJ or to a JHP with inconsistent expansion at low velocities.

Can you test the buffalo bore 150gr hard cast wadcutters?

Back in the 70's I used to hand load wadcutters upside down with the hollow end facing forward, what would be the expansion on those?

Way back in the 70's we handloaded hollow base wadcutters upside down over 3grs of bullseye . Expansion was very good . Then along came a company called Supervel and things began to change .

When Jim Cirillo was still alive, he wrote an article for G&A in anout the early 90's. He wrote about using "cup point" (dished in nose i guess) wadcutters in his 38 handloads, at full power. His partner used one, hand cycled into the chamber of his Gold Cup (45 ACP), backed up by ball. They worked quite well. Othwr interesting observations were that he often drew his 2" Model 10 first ftom strong side holster, because it cleared leather faster than his 4" in a shoulder rig. Their preferred long gun was the M1 Carbine, which was effective even with ball ammo. And in his first shooting, he vividly remembeed seeing the serrations on his S&W front sight in sharp focus. He ended his career as a trainer at FLETC in Glynco, GA, teaching federal agents. He was a big advocate of DAO autos as well, like the S&W's (ending in 46 if full size) or the Beretta D models.

i love how a wadcutter ccw video has the most views in the past half year. i was worried autos were taking over too much.

Also there are a vast majority of coroner's reports that state when a hollow point bullet hits a human body it has a 25% chance of expanding.

This dudes shotgun and shotgun ammo videos are best on utube

Curious if these will cycle in a Rossi lever action because of the flush round to the case 🤔

Good video again. Thank you. Stay safe.

Another great video , like always

I sure appreciate how easy it was to create an account on your website (granted, I have the "Auto-Complete" capability on line).

very good and informative, subbed