I am sorry that Heat-Timer did not step up and take care of you. Sad, indeed.

What pressure do you run the boilers?

I thank you for your comments! You might have some "cross-over" steam traps on your system at the ends of your mains?

I have two steam traps at the end of the mains I thought it was weird that they were uphill from the mains to the dry returns and I changed the nipples to make them downhill But I was corrected by an old timer who said that there was no steam left by the time the steam trap was reached the end only air so it wasn’t necessary to install longer nipples. I did remove two large radiator style steam vents from the top of the wet return pipes at the end of the mains they seemed out of place and not in keeping with the rest of the system. I can send you a link to a video I’m thinking about making since my skills at descriptions are inadequate.

@@davidlampe4153 Thanks for your description! I didn't get notice of you posting here & found it by accident.

Thank you very much for the kind words! It took me a bit too long to realize that if someone is putting a Varivalve on a radiator, it works because it's treating the symptom and not the underlying problem. In the meantime, the customer is having to put up with the notorious V.V. spitting and early failure rates. On the plus side, they add good weight to the scrap bucket! Thanks again & happy quiet steaming.

Sorry to hear you had Gortons that failed open out of the box. That sucks. Did you get them replaced?

You bring up a good point about an undersized (or underfired) boiler causing otherwise properly vented radiators not to heat properly. "If you put a big vent on a radiator (and have proper main vents on the pipes), and it still doesn't heat properly, it ain't a venting problem"

@@gordonschweizer5154 maybe next time she calls me to service her boiler, I'll bring a manometer with me and see how much I can upfire her boiler. It is a newer weil mclain, about 7 years old.

Thank you!

Thanks for your comments & observations! I think what the Dead Men used to do is drill & tap the larger radiators that were hard to heat in two places to install vents. The steam would reach one first & shut it down after a lot of the air was gone, and the other vent would continue to allow the air to be expelled, but at a slower rate to reduce the likelyhood of spitting & gurgling. This all supposes that there was also massive main venting, of course.

I have seen that in Audel's Oil Burner Guide. On this radiator because of its rarity I don't dare go anywhere near it with a drill. On something common like a thin tube or similar I would maybe try that, or a manifold that holds two vents. In this case, this seems to be the only radiator that works well with a Varivalve. It has the right combination of almost comically large size, super high vent location, and on the end of a very long steam main. Even with a Gorton D it doesn't heat up fully with the boiler running for hours. Wonder how it was supposed to work in the 1880s, when I can assume vents had nowhere near the venting rate they do today? I suppose with coal you could wait hours for the thing to heat up. It weighs around 350-400 pounds, maybe more, with wrought iron tubes, steel? inner tubes, and a cast iron base. Believe me moving the thing to repaint it was difficult, even on linoleum where it could slide. It had to be stripped and repainted right in the kitchen where it is, moving it somewhere else would have been nearly impossible.

Oh! my! gosh! Was there an insurance claim? I would guess certainly harsh words were said, at the very least.

I was told the oils on my fingers depreciated the value of the frame. Co. took care of it. I learned a very valuable lesson.

I've heard that the Varivalve line suffered a really bad run recently and you must have been caught up in that. Hope you got your money back. As to your needing Gorton C to get your radiator hot, have you looked into improving your main steam venting? By venting your mains properly with large vents, the radiators can be vented with smaller vents. In general, smaller, slower radiator vents last longer due to not as much rust & stuff being sent through the vent orifice. Also, radiators tend to heat up with less spitting and sloshing in most cases (also a general case... you yourself might be just fine). It is easier to balance a system with good main venting as you can dial in the venting on the radiators when most of the air in the system is dealt with in the basement. Stay warm!

@@gordonschweizer5154 thanks for the reply....truth be told I probably don't need C's upstairs but I was so tired of freezing I wanted to see how much heat I could get up there. Thanks for the tip on the main vent...I'll have a look at that guy, he's pretty old and might be clogged with hard water deposits.

Ok wound up installing a number 6 instead of the Varivalve. Now the radiator heats up nicely with the added benefit that the system is suddenly quiet...no more banging on the second floor. Time to re-visit those other V-Vs! Very thankful for your vid!

Very kind of you to say!

There are a few older Audel books covering various steam boiler systems, the newer ones mentioning steam (less than 50 years old) are all reprints. I am wishing you success with your new Vent Rites!

I take it, then, that you are also not enamored of the Varivalve vent?

@@gordonschweizer5154 Correct Sir! The DIY’s love em cause they’re cheap, but nothing good is 1/3 the cost of a reliable component.

Indeed yes.

Thank You! As to your issue with the Gorton #1, it appears from reports by others that they are going through a rough patch as far as quality control is concerned, sad to say. But you might be having wet steam issues, as you suspect. 3/4 is too high. I would try to run your boiler water level at about mid gauge. I believe that is close to what the manufacturer calls out for. Check to make sure your pressure control is set to the lowest possible setting & the pigtail is clear. Is the near boiler piping correct? All the Hercules boiler liquid in the world will not overcome bad piping.

@@gordonschweizer5154 UPDATE: I installed both my Gorton #1's and both were letting out so much steam the water levels dropped like crazy and I'd have to refill. I went and bought a third and installed. This new one barely vents but at least I'm not losing water. Meanwhile, I returned the first two to Gorton and they quickly sent me two replacements in exchange. Will try one later today to see if I can get goldilocks "just right". Also, I got PSEG to give me a new Pressuretrol. I installed a 3 psi gauge next to it for a more accurate reading and it cuts off at 2 1/2 psi and then back on at 1 psi (settings are at the lowest at .5 with 1 differential). The old-brand-new one wouldn't cut off lower than about 4 psi. So much for getting it to run at 1 1/2 psi. Not happening so I'm going to have to live with this. The piping and the Hercules had nothing to do with all this. Thank you!

@@hymnistic Thank you very much for the detailed update. Inaccurate pressuretrol issues have been around for a long time sad to say. You've got the grey box one or the clear plastic front one?

@@gordonschweizer5154 Grey box

@@hymnistic The grey box or PA404A is "tweakable" to be more accurate, but it is hard to show that on KZfaq. You have to search a bit to find info on that. As to your failing Gortons, I don't know what to say, except I'm crestfallen to hear of your (and many others') problems that that heretofore excellent brand is suffering.

Smoke or steam? It seems at least the vent has failed. It should be replaced with something other than a Varivalve.

I'd stick with the Gortons. That line in Heat-Timer's sales literature that Varivalves last longer that bimetalic type vents is a load of male bovine fecal matter.

I glad you lucked into a good batch. May I ask, what pressure do you run your system at? Do you have good main venting such as a Gorton #2?

@Gordon Schweizer do you use b&j big mouth main vents? They are 50% faster than gorton#2.

@@TheScottmittel I have used Big Mouths as main vents in certain very limited applications - namely as the only vent on the dry return terminus in low pressure vapor systems. And piped to be near a sump pump. In that application, the B/M will only be exposed to steam if something else upstream fails. If the system floods, B/M will dump lots of water into the basement. I am sorry to say I do not trust the longevity of the B/M vent over the average Gorton #2 vent for constant steam exposure cycles mainly due to the o ring seal.