Vars: "ADCs lose to just about every other class in combat besides maybe enchanters." Lulu: "Hold my beer."

Another video with yone in the title man this guy must really like yone

I think in some way, it isn't that the "Melee ADCs" are restricting traditional ADCs, but rather the entire game as a whole in Riot's design philosophy is restricting ADCs - and THEN the "Melee ADCs" are freed from that restriction. So, in coordinated pro play, or even elite levels of play, players don't die so often and are relegated to safe farming mostly, players are competent, care about team composition, and work together ideally speaking. In such an environment ADCs thrive, to have a real support and real teammates, and they look very powerful in those games. To balance for that play, where a team needs an ADC to takes towers and objectives and all fights - Riot balances them for that. Then after that has been established for a long time, I think the "Melee ADCs" or crit-based melee champions, are just more designed to be freed from those constraints.Yes Tryndemere and Master Yi are just outdated, old and simple and beat you with stats. Yasuo is infamous, leading to his brother but....I think Yone is a result of the feature/power-creep they have in their design philosophy nowadays more than some overarching "plan" to ruin ADCs by making melee ADCs better. It DOES feel shitty that the Wind brothers have an easier time and spike earlier, but I bet you that is only because of the double crit-chance. You didn't mention in the video, an ADC's crit only gets as good as the random chance. No other item class does that! Imagine if you as a mage bought Luden's Echo/Tempest and it says "has a 20% chance to work" that would be kind of shitty that you don't know when the item will do its function? For ADC's you're buying an item that *may* give you damage 20% of the time, so you have to keep stacking that item until you can reliably do damage 80%-100% of the time. Yasuo and Yone's passive just skip that AND have room for extra items. Wow, 100% crit chance AND I can fit in GA and Death's dance? What ADC doesn't wish they can do that? I'd kill to have 100% crit on Xayah, AND have Death's Dance AND GA.

they should just add more "ranged only" passives to items they want for marksman like runaans

Idk it feels more like Riot bias/neglect with this issue. I feel like they could easily do what most bruiser items already do and just make these items not as strong on melee characters as they are on ranged ones.

Also, fun fact, only master yi(and I guess Gangplank) need mana out of these "melee adc's", so there's no saving grace of them losing their pressure through loss of resource. They don't get weaker or less threatening, so there are basically no down-time to exploit. Yes, I know Yasuo and Yone need three stacks on Q to make their big wind-move, but do they really need it? and tryndamere uses his rage to get stronger, but late-game, he'll get on you and kill you before he gets full rage. Stat checker through and through, as his rage only helps him win harder.

Hot take: What if items like Immortal Shieldbow got a melee nerf so it only impacts melee ADCs and not marksmen? I mean, we have nerfs on Hullbreaker and Divine Sunderer, etc. for ranged champions. IS got nerfed because of Yone, Irelia, and Yasuo but they got a buff right after leaving ADCs with a weaker mythic.

Changing 5 or 6 champs to make a whole class viable makes sense. Fiora, Jax, and Riven already exist as templates for those monsters to be reined in. Melee damage dealers need to build some defensive stats to survive, like you said in the video, so it's kind of ridiculous to expect them to build crit first and get their cake too. They are skill based stat checkers, that's a combination that should never exist. Either you're a stat check champ, or an outplay champ; having both is actually toxic and dumb

It's truly sad when Riot make Immortal Cringebow for ADCs but ended up being abused by 200 years melee ADC champions

you know how items usually meant for mele champions like frostfire, divine sunderer, duskblade, eclipse, etc do less when bought on ranged champions i think they should do that with adc items too, decrease the shield and increase cooldown on shieldbow, decrease the dmg on kraken, decrease dmg and increase cooldown on galeforce and decrease bonus crit damage on infinity edge when these items are built on mele champions

The thing people love with melee adc is they're less reliant on their support, less punishable for a mistakes and having more outplay potential. With traditional ad you need a buttload of gold to reach powerspike, you're more reliant on your teammates and support to not fk up the your lane or their lane until then. Then one positioning mistake in teamfight can result in instant grey screen and your 10 minutes of farming can go down into the drain.

My question is what's stoping Riot from making ADC items change depending if you are melee or range(like passive dmg from BOTRK) Like there is many items that have this kind of thing, it would allow them to balance both melee and range separately. If one item is problem on Windshiters but is fine on normal ADC then just nerf it only on melee champs with this mechanic. It exist in the game so why dont they use it?

I remember a time when marksmen started using death’s dance to reduce damage taken (like burst). Riot then adjusted the passive so that ranged champions get less damage reduction from the item than melee champions. I think if we want to balance marksmen with melee ADCs (without inflating or deflating one or the other), we should do something similar to that with crit items.

I wanna see the crit mythics or maybe IE have a seperate scaling for ranged vs melee like bork, tsunderer, hullbreaker, etc. Make them able to spike midgame still but give them less damage.

Just for clarification Vars, if these melee ADC champs were to be completely moved away from crit to become light fighters like Fiora, Riven, Jax, would you say that ADC's could then be buffed? I feel like marksmen are weak, but more because the environment of 5v5 solo/duo queue hurts them, ex. support miscommunicates, ally team drafts only 1 peel, both teams locking in 2+ slayers; all of that warrants a system change in my eyes, not ADC crit stat buffs

I commented this a while ago when you brought this subject up the first time but I feel it bears repeating: We already have a fully functional, crit-friendly melee ADC in the game. His name is Xin Zhao, and if he goes full crit, he does damage out the wazoo but - understandably - suffers in terms of durability if he goes down that route. The real problem with melee ADC's is that they get free crit, which in and of itself isn't a bad thing, but since they share items with ranged ADC's it means you can never change the latter without monstrously overpowering the former. Crit amp needs to go; going for crit on a melee champ should be a tradeoff, not a free powerspike. "Oh but they do less crit damage" - if this is your counterargument, kindly remain silent. Their increased crit chance is worth way more than the loss in crit modifier.

I want Riot to add a new class called "Swordsmen" and comprise it of melee crit'ers if you get me. Yasuo tryndamere yone yi etc etc

“If you do this, Yasuo will be completely useless” Me: GOOD

Some context for that Barrel clip: Solarbacca had 20% Crit Chance, and 324 AD from 3 complete items (Essence, Prowlers, Muramana). 4 times out of 5 the barrel would've done ~800 dmg, then Tyler could've flashed away and lived (maybe). The RNG gods were kind to give us this legendary moment

Here’s a drinking game. Take a shot every time he mentions yone being a 200 years designed champion

I'll be honest I would be fine with these champs if they didn't get amplified crit where they get to build less crit like for example all yas and yone need is one crit item then IE and also more fury trynn has more crit he does

As someone for whom Yasuo is the 2nd or 3rd most played champ, i wholeheartedly agree the crit passive is dumb, I'd rather have a more fun mechanic, maybe an empowered ability passive? .... Also if they remove the wind wall and give me something more fun and interactive, I'm down for it

I think the problem is that Yone and Yasuo are strong early and late which a lot of the time just feels incredibly unfair to play against, especially if you play a mid/late game champion yourself. If you take for example a mage, can't usually oneshot pre 6, Yone/Yasuo win early because they can skirmish better and they win mid and late because they build crit. Even if the mage player plays smart and holds his CC Yone can just jump through as his abilities can't get stopped midway. Of course I am not denying that range isn't a factor, a lot of mages can poke the ever living f out of Yone and Yasuo but they usually just heal it all back up with lifesteal. Building anti-heal or anti-shield also is not working as you have less damage with these items and won't be able to win the skirmish because a lack of damage. The only champions that actually feel somewhat able to deal with yone or yasuo are other melee marksman or an assassin that can oneshot them early on. I would say these are the main reasons these 2 are annoying to play against, or at least why I find them annoying.

I was really happy you mentioned GP at 2:18

Y'know how all of the "desinged for melee" items have a reduced efectiveness for ranged champs while not specifically restricting them from buying any of said items (the 30%melee/16%ranged kinda splitted effectiveness) i really think adc items should have the same effect but inversed, the nerfed version of shieldbow should only be nerfed for melee users, galeforce's dash should be shorter for melee, and kraken's atk speed scaling should also be lowered just for melee.

I remember when some items were gated based on range. If riot decides to gate adc mythics to ranged champs and make another set of mythics for melee's, we could circumvent the catch 22 almost entirely. The adc mythics could get buffed to make adcs less embarrassing and have the melee's commit somewhat fewer war crimes after min 5

i think it all comes down to the main problem of league in the first place: the requirement to ruin someone's fun to win take CC for example: it is singlehandedly the most powerful tool in league because it stops the champions from doing anything melee adcs, because they are short ranged, need some sort of nullification of weaknesses to be viable, and more often than not, it is done in an unfun and uninteractive way examples include master yi Q, tryndamere R, yasuo windwall, yone E AND R, viego passive and possession, even gp Q has to be ranged because they want these characters to build full damage, they end up just removing design barriers by adding toxic abilities into their kit and inherently, the problem with marksmen is that they are too honorable, too noble, and, dare i say it, too outdated most, if not all, of their toxic abilities (like CC or explosive damage) come in the form of skillshots or delayed damage take varus R and his blight stacks (1.5 second delay before the big damage), jhin and his fourth shot, ezreal and his Q, as for an example that goes against this rule, Ashe R is one of the most toxic abilities a normal adc has because it can serve as a semi-instant stun and can also be used at long range for a 10 year long stun (i say normal because samira also has W but everyone knows that shit is toxic and had to be gutted) tl;dr champions are becoming more oppressive in nature, removing the opponent's ability to play in order to stay relevant marksman unfortunately do not have this luxury to be oppressive due to power budget being mostly in their range

6:36 vars: *explaining how game design works* gankplank: yeah bruuh we flyin

Locking shieldbow to ranged champs would be a good first step. Overall, marksman need a massive class overhaul to buff their survivability. In return, they can have less scaling.

Riot when an Assassin has a 1500 health shield and heals all his health: I sleep Riot when Ezreal builds Divine Sunderer: Real shit?

6:10 that's exactly why imo the cosmic+force of nature changes made other classes able to keep up so much more easily since they can invest in that as counterplay stats that genuinely improve a champions gameplay, maybe I'm just bias cuz I play singed and anivia haha

I just liked seeing gangplank going through the wall at 7:07

Pretty good video, I agree that melee adc's have been a problem ever since mythics were introduced. I main Tryndamere, so I might be a bit biased but I'm not blind. He is a balancing nightmare, and he's hell to go against in low elo especially. He should be reworked, but exactly to what is a good question, as his whole identity is that he crits for insane amounts and is unkillable for 5 seconds. Yone and Yasou are both just skirmishers with unnecessary crit, Yi and Viego can build other stuff and GP is an odd case, and some odd cases are ok. I would like to see league move in the direction of more specialised characters instead of all round great characters, with champions such a Lillia etc with unique playstyles thrive, instead of being pushed down because someone can play the same champ versus every matchup and win (Tryndamere is included in this, he was much more healthy before mythics, even though his winrate was abysmal. Another example is Tahm Kench before his nerfs) But that's my cup of tea

I don’t get why the League community is so allergic to calling melee Attack Damage Carries ADC.

I think "critical chance" should be replaced with a general boost to auto-attack (and specific abilities) (like guinsoo but not "on-hit") and maybe should scale up a bit like "lethality" (but with a different gradient between melee and ranged)

its kind of funny I was thinking about this earlier today and you happened to release this video today.

I think crit system can be balanced so that items have different effects for ranged/melee users like S10 deaths dance. Out of the roster you've listed, the only champions that feel terrible to play against are Tryndamere, Yi and Viego, not because of their damage, but because of how easily they have access to "invuln" phases.

"on tryndamere it only helps his E get a LITTLE faster" last whisper tryndamere: is that a challenge?

One thing that really pick my attention is how the 3 last release champs have a form of hard counter build in their kit

Your voice is so relaxing, im gonna listen to it while im meditating LOL

We have items that can only be bought by Melee champs. Why not just make specific items for ranged champs and only they can buy them? That would prevent melees from abusing these items, it's the same thing that happened with melee only items. It's something that I always think and don't understand why Riot wouldn't do it.

Imagine going against a Yasou adc and a Pantheon support because I went against them once and they really ruin the game for me. My support once said we're ahead since he is 0-4 but went from there to 16-7 really quick. Once they reach 6, they started snowballing and it's not fun at all.

Yet again, an amazing video

i wonder if you add in a melee/ranged split for certain crit item stats like you see in Maw or Divine Sunderer, where it scales normally for ranged but is reduced in some way for melee champions

You're right about melee carries screwing with item balance. A few patches ago, they decided that Yasuo and Yone q needed a buff to ad scaling because shieldbow got nerves. Which basically meant that they were unaffected by a nerf to an item that was intentionally done to nerf the users of said item. Like yasuo and yone.

Weird thought, make ranged only items for marksmen so that these champions can't use them. An inverted steracks gage or hydra.

Yep this sums it up. Ever since melees and Mages started randomly going bot lane I haven’t had much fun and pretty much entirely switched to ARAM. It’s just like how much more can you do to end the fun of the only role I like riot?

Points to you my man, whenever talking about crit you really need to think about the 3 champs in your thumbnail first. I also appreciate that you value range as a powerful stat, something that you really only notice as you go higher up the ladder. Good job on the video, keep up the good work!

I feel like Riot has kind of dug themselves into a hole with Melee ADCs. Especially with the wind brothers and the fact that crit is on theme for them. I do think melee adc's should exist, I really don't like how stale league's lane setup and roles are, but I also think the problem adcs can't exist the way they are now. Trynd needs a rework, wind brothers can't have double crit (especially for so cheap). Not sure about yi and GP though, yi is heavily a stat checker, and GP does have skill expression with barrel knowledge.

So look into my eyes and tell me, why to i have to read my oponnent's skillshots to not get murdered in lane whilst yasuo just needs to walk and not think about his enemy in lane? why does he get so much for free? A character, for example, jax doesn't have better range than him, has to fight ranged characters a lot also, doesnt get free mobility, has mana costs, and does not get a shield just by walking and a long range attack like the hurricane, no free crit also

I feel like a possible fix for crit chance being so hard to balance would be change it to crit damage. I think it would work well removing some RNG from the game that can cause unfair situations. maybe need to reduce the crit damage from 175 to like 150 or something if it is too op

I think what I think would solve the ADCs problem the most would be to make crit items have better values when used on marksmen, like fighter items that have a nerfed version for ranged champions. An idea that I found interesting, would be some passive on the item that works according to the champion's range, like the less range, less damage and more attack speed or the more range, more damage and less attack speed. Another idea would be for mythical crit items to have some passive that works from the amount of crit chance coming from the items and not from passives that increase it (like yasuo, yone, trynda and senna), in addition to preventing champions like irelia, between others use the shieldbow, since she doesn't buy critical items anymore, so only buying one, so it would benefit her to buy more than one and nerf whoever has less items.

Personally, I think all of this comes from the constraint that "ranged ADCs" HAVE TO be created in a VERY particular way and ALL have the exact same weaknesses and strengths. ALL building the EXACT same items. ADCs strengths and weaknesses are relative to each other. Saying Vayne is "weak" early game JUST because people like Caitlyn can bully her is incorrect because both of them are shitty early game relative to other characters. ADCs are like in a bubble where you have to pick between Ken vs Ryu.ADCs have the most stale design and honestly require a massive rework if you want to fix the ADC problem. Look at other MOBAs like dota, where you can have ranged carries be wildly different design/abilities with all different niches from early/mid/late game. With a large multitude of options depending on the game. Ashe counterpart in dota "drow ranger" specializes in attacking from max range, perma slowing, and then pushing back/silencing. Clearly her role is to kite and has strong matchup against squishy mages but get's dunked on by teleporters/people trying to bum rush her. Then you have huskar which is an ULTRA TANKY, super regen diving into enemy team ADC. Which has entirely different set of strengths and weaknesses compared to drow ranger.

These "Premieres in" notifications are really annoying. I don't want to see a video thumbnail in my feed if it's not out yet.

How can you get the camera that high?, download the game yesterday and its so zoomd in its unplayable for me.

I got an idea, make items like kraken slayer, immortal shieldbow have the 'ranged only' the melee adcs will still be able to build stuff like lord dominique's or other items that crit

Mhh, as a yone/yasuo main this video i’ll enjoy my favourite lol KZfaqr shitting on my favourite champions as they deserve

Yone is my main for the mid lane tbh and honestly I would love to see him and Yasuo reworked a bit to instead of getting inhanced crit maybe they scale off of hp? Like its very minor scaling but their passive gives bonus hp for the attack damage they build like 1% hp off every 50 atk dmg? Snd their passive says they no longer can gain crit, then make their Q's Cooldown either just go down with leveling it up now or make it scale with somethign else that skirmishers build, either hp in some minor fashion or atk dmg or even maybe armor snd magic resist? Idk I would love to see it tho cuz yone especially has a good amount of cc so i would love to see him more built like Riven or Jax or even more Juggernaut like Sett

Imo, they could give the windshitters a sorta Pyke and Senna thing, they can't build crit, but passively gain it per level or some other way, but passively gain it in some way, so that way they scale up along with their other melee counterparts and still keep their crit identities, and open room to balance Crit items around solely marksmen. Maybe they could also give them a new passive, basically give them a mythic passive in their kits, when they buy items, gain crit%, and have it be enough so they'll hit healthy powerspikes equal to their other melee brethren

So, my friends and I have been talking about this issue for a while. we think that riot should do something akin to Smite. That being, that Riot should focus primarily on splitting the items evenly for each class, Reclassify the champions if they have to, but simply give each class some defensive options and some offensive options and let them pick and choose from that pool rather than allowing them to build anything they want. That way, if they balance one class, it doesn't hurt the others. Smite honestly has the best solution for preventing item abuse imo. It's like, they nerfed Turbo Chemtank cause assassins were building it... if they don't want assassins to build it, then why even let them in the first place? All it did was hurt tanks who built it like Singed. Stuff like that is why i think they should shift it more towards Smite's system.

Once again, I feel like Dota would have been a better compairson than Smash on the topic of balancing melee and ranged dps characters for a Moba But hey, write what you know I guess

Let’s make shieldbow into two different items instead, one for life steal and the other for the shield. Burst is the current issue right now and not poke, so having a mythic with just the shield and the AD passive would be really beneficial for ADC’s I imagine. Where as for the melee crit skirmishers like Viego and the wind shitters, life steal would give them that sustain they need to succeed later on without the giant fucking shield. Having both in one item in my opinion kills the itemization with these champs.

What we need is more "Ranged Champions only" itmes, maybe with unique effects that basically only marksmen would have uses for- Idk- maybe a "attacking at more range = a slight amount more damage" kinda stuff- but having those items falling off towards the lategame- maybe like base physical damage + a TIIIINY amount of bonus AD on top- like additional "10 +2% bonus AD" every 100 units.

A lot of this comes from the fact that in League of Legends defense and mobility are supplemented with gold, but range is not. This causes ranged characters to have a very different relationship with items than defense or mobility oriented characters. A tank or diver is going to be investing gold into being able to survive or engage so that they can start using their stats and abilities on the opponents. You can make choices about whether to invest more in damage or defense based on the game state or team comps. A ranged character basically has all of the range they will have for the entire game at level 3, with possibly a little more at level 6. This means that all of their gold is dumped into damage or support so that their abilities and autos have more impact when they land. The characters simply must scale differently because their will not be gaining more of their primary agency stat from items, but they instead be gaining lots of their primary role/effect stat. If Jinx had to purchase range or Yasuo had sufficient built in defense just from his kit, the situation would be very different.

Honestly, I've given it thought before and I feel that Crit mythics should be what gives the following items crit as their mythic passive. And lethality the same. That way AD champs have more item freedom like mages do. 2nd item GA because the whole enemy team is AD assassins? Sure, and you still don't slow your damage by 70%, just 40%ish the way Zhonyas does (don't come at me for my math, I'm not gonna try to run numbers, just the idea of it) Why should I be punished cause I'm the only champ that can't get a stopwatch item till last? For gimmick items like collector, they could still have their passive be something like the item gives lethality with the crit mythic and vise versa. This may require a rework to lethality, but it seems healthier than limiting every lethality build to the same 3 items into either crit or manamune.

I was playing Samira with a Swain support. We were both fed plus the jungler, Xin zhao. The only fed person on the enemy team was irelia. She won the game even though we tried to catch her 1v3, 1v2. I lost my mind and uninstalled the game. They are the reason adc get nerfed in 10.26.

what would be the issue with bringing back the melee/ranged exclusive thing? iirc Runnan's is the only item that does that is exclusive anymore. With mythics around it would make perfect sense to have a handful of melee/range only items, and balance them around keeping each strong in their own right.

Does Graves count as a melee ADC? I know he's technically ranged but it's very short and he plays more like Trynd than Jinx or Varus.

As a Yone main, the main reason why Melee ADCs seem to be polarizing is due to the fact that they are, well, melee. Their mobility is excellent, yes, and it may seem like they can dash across the map with ease, but at the end of the day, they still have to be in your face to do damage. And being in your face with crit items is... how you say... not a smart idea. The whole idea of crit items is that they are pure damage, with little to no defenses to speak of. That, combined with a class who cannot even afford to attack from a safe distance thanks to their melee attack range, makes for a balance disaster The only reason Yone and Yas are even remotely viable is because of Shieldbow; same with Phantom Dancer in earlier seasons. If you are Challenger Faker 1v9 smurf to pro level, then you can make Galeforce Yone work by dodging problematic skillshots every time. But at the end of the day, Yone and Yas are too squishy due to the items they are forced to build first, making their scaling and overall playstyle very strange compared to other champs. As much as people like to pretend, Yone W and Yas passive are not enough to protect them from getting bursted down by even the least burst oriented bruisers. The concept of their itemization forces them down a strange build path, where they are forced to fight in close quarters with the items least suited to do so, making them... interesting to balance, especially in regard to whatever item is able to provide suitable damage and defenses to make them at the very least able to tank a little bit of damage before biting the dust

Ah yes the must fun to play against balanced champions

Amazing to see how far you've come, Jin. Maybe I should join the League youtuber community too. Play a game with me sometime :D

in my country we call it ADR as in Attack Damage Ranged since almost all adc played is a ranged champion

"My name is Vars. Through the power of social media, I'm talking to all of you. All the content was uploaded, the shitstorm within reddit has began its course. My aim is to protect the NA server, where I have grinded and raged. I will crush Yone with the power of my salty video essays, until he is removed from the game due to popular demand."

“Then they’d fucking suck” honestly, I genuinely would not mind these melee adcs being nerfed to the ground for just a tiny bit of relevance being given back to adcs. I think I speak for at least 80% of the player base when I say it sucks having these champs in your games. Either you win bc they reached 3 items first, or you lose because the player went 0/10. Or you win bc the enemy melee adc went 0/10 or you lose bc they just steamrolled your team. I can probably count on one hand the number of times a game with Yasuo or Yone in it wasn’t won or lost 90% as a consequence of their sheer existence. And I don’t think any champion or class of champions should be given that sort of sway in a game.

is that DW 8 character selection during story mode screen music i hear?

Maybe something like an IE passive where the wind shits have low scaling until a threshold

Funny how rito just doesn’t do the common sense thing and move them away from crit.

Adcs aren't even close to weak though

i think something that is missing from this discussion is how riot gave adcs a two item spike with ie second and then nerfed crit damage scaling for adcs to lessen that spike and then when the item rework happened they moved that spike once again to 3/4 items and only ever compensated yasuo yone and trynd who can still build it at the same time they used to before the changes.

The smash reference made it 10x more worth the watch lol

Play rate of all non-marksmen combined: 6.6% Jinx's play rate: 29.8% Marksmen, weak, choose one.

idea: restrictions on the effects crit items grant melee champions. e.g. make shieldbow grant a smaller shield to melees or let ie provide the extra crit damage for melees once they reach 100 crit chance instead of the usual 60

Riven used to build crit a lot, Vi also can use crit item. If i remember correctly old fiora was good with crit too. I've seen a lot of irelia shieldbow botrk guinsoo dominik. And let's not forget about Shaco and rengar both build 2 crit item most of the time(maybe even more for rengar with the recent patch) My view on yasuo/yone passive. It used to be +100% crit chance but since the mythics it's +150% and you also gain ad if you have more then 100% total crit chance. They sould make them not crit at this point but i think it's also a way to force them to build as least 2 crit item because if they could go any ad item in early it would require an insane amount of balance in their stats and kit

Even though it is quite niche, I would've enjoyed hearing about another champion that can be played with attack damage, crit chance and/or on-hit, and that champion is Shaco. Shaco's playstyle allows him to build crit when he wants to one-tap ennemy carries, and idk if you've ever had a crit shaco in your team but apart from the stupid amount of mobility melee ADC have, he could fit in this category as well (cuz idk if you ever faced one but there is nothing tanking crit shaco's dps with clone)

Actually % armor pen is another non-linear scaling stats (and non on hit+ work for other classes) It's reason why tank fall off in lategame, as they go only rezists+hp. Only few of them have 3rd scaling that multiplayer those 2. Ornn passive boost items by like 30%,same malphite w. Other classes have : ap/ad + pen + haste (for tanks it mainly boost dmg/dps).

In my opinion their passives that give them extra crit should just scale with xp. Maybe something like at level 10 they have the full double crit chance but at level 5 it's only increasing their crit by 50% Same thing with trynd. Have his passive give more crit as he levels but not letting it get up to 40% early game. Just a thought

I don't know if something like this has been in the game already and got removed but my solution would be to add new boots, only purchaseable by ranged champions, which amplify your crit chance by 25% or in other words, for every 20% of crit you get through items, it will give you 25%. This would make ranged ADCs powespike even earlier and also leave options open for a defensive last item.

As an adc this video hits different, another champ I kind of wished to see in this video was graves (I know he isn’t “melee” but it’s hard to count him as an adc either) but this stemmed the thought of 2 other adc topic ideas that being about how and what riot has to do to make a marksman not botlane (graves, Quinn, Akshan, and Kindred) or how marksman have recently started going lethality because crit items take too long to be useful. Anyways always a good day when I see a new vid for you mr. Streamer and I hope y’all have a good day

Backloaded crit items such as PD are an answer. They probably wont solve everything, but they might go a long way to fixing the problem as ranged adcs get way more autos in per fight. Instead of making every class a swiss army knife, it would be better to focus on their strengths and making that shine. In this case, play into ranged adcs' relative strength in consistent damage in team fights instead of making it so they are better at dueling which they shouldn't really be particularly good at, otherwise why would you ever pick any class. Some ideas for this might be to make kraken have lower base damage, but make the true damage increase every time you proc it until you leave combat, or make galeforces damage work similar to kalista's e, where the damage increases based on the number of autos you land in combat. Another option is active preemptive defense items such as zhonyas or stoneplate (imagine an adc version of it). Because they are further away, they have more time to react and potentially denying lethal burst damage/ buying time for peel. Imagine you catch them with a stun after you both finished mythics, you cant just nuke them because they survive with shieldbow, heal off minions and then beat ur ass because you already blew your cooldowns including ur ult. Now imagine if shieldbow's shield was an active, they either react in time to use it just before they get stunned, but then you just hold ur ult, back off and if you stun them again, you can punish hard. This still retains their survivability (mostly) for teamfights, where they actually need the added survivability. To simply write off crit items as a catch 22 is a bit lazy and unimaginative, because, as mentioned in this video, ranged adcs do have a significant advantage, and to allow them to flourish without breaking melee adc's is to play into them.

What if we reduce the crit chance multiplier on yone and yasuo and instead give them crit scaling on their other spells ? Wouldn't that kinda solve the problem ? (at least a bit)

As someone whos top 2 games in terms of hours are league and smash, I think this'll make me sub.

I remember pre season 11 before yasuo and yone had their crit adjusted to match 100% at two items after the item change and they just felt so bad to play

"to distinguish between ranged auto attackers and the ability to carry" absolute banger line chief

I'd start by making Yaduo and Yone use mana, reduce their ability crit chance damage like 15% and make some crit items "Ranged champions only", and make new melee crit items that help balance these champions if necessary.

ayy the legend is back

if the renegar pbe changes get through u should add him to the list

I think when you talk about Melee ADCs, you should bring Warlord's Bloodlust ver.1. It was my favourite ADC Keystone Mastery when it was released. After crit you would have got a small heal and AS boost. It was balanced on Marksmen, but sadly to strong o Tryndamere and Yasuo, so it had to be reworked :c I still haven't forgiven Melee ADCs for destroying my beloved keystone.

What if they scaled the time it takes before yasuo can dash through a target again with ap, so a max ap yasuo can just dash dash revolution

Gangplank can only build stuff like that because for some reason, not only his gun, but also explosions caused by his gun, somehow classify as his basic attacks.

im a little late to the party but what about the fact that shield bow is literally better on melee champs? Couldnt we remove aspects like that or even make it so the passives on those crit items are weaker on people like yas and yone?