FIRE DURING TAKEOFF on Jetblue A321 at Kennedy Airport

Рет қаралды 212,230

Күн бұрын

13/JAN/2024
Jetblue A321 performing flight from JFK to Ontario was commencing the takeoff roll when other pilots on frequency reported sparks and flames coming out of their right hand engine forcing the pilots to reject the takeoff.
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EPISODES:
00:00 Video Information
00:38 Jetblue Cleared for takeoff
04:00 Jetblue clears the runway
06:00 Runway sweep is carried out
06:50 Jetblue aircraft is inspected
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Пікірлер: 499

@VASAviation 6 ай бұрын

Shortly after this incident occured, TWO more emergencies were declared simultaneously. Video for those here -> kzfaq.info/get/bejne/sLt4qcmI3bC3dmg.htmlsi=4iRRBEliXWsj3DrR

@confuseatronica 6 ай бұрын

weird i wonder if there was FOD somewhere on the runway or taxiway and everybody sucked it up

@VASAviation 6 ай бұрын

@@confuseatronica no, they were passenger related

@edgarcastillo2804 6 ай бұрын

@@VASAviation oh no. Hope they are ok

@coltdoolittle2251 6 ай бұрын

Are there any injuries?

@ColorNerdChris 6 ай бұрын

Busy day in NYC with these emergencies and two aircraft coming together at KLGA.

@arantala 6 ай бұрын

That 5:44 must have been the finest enunciated "Cleared for takeoff" given at JFK in a looong time.

@catherinekilgour2563 6 ай бұрын

Yes, I noted that too. ATC didn't want any confusion around that first aircraft getting out of there and starting to get the queue cleared.

@VictoryAviation 6 ай бұрын

I greatly appreciate when ATC makes the cleared for landing or cleared for takeoff statement crystal clear. I in turn always make my reply super clear as well. Those are two calls I especially don’t want to misunderstand.

@user-ik4br3nk2w 6 ай бұрын

Usually it's ''Ya claired fa take auhhf''

@cottagechskitty 6 ай бұрын

LOVE when the pilots help each other out. Invaluable in this case

@TrainerAQ 6 ай бұрын

The other pilots helped a lot considering the engines are not visible from the cockpit

@DigiLab360 6 ай бұрын

Not helping out would be criminal. Who goes, 'oh, look, that plane is on fire' and NOT call it out. There are people onboard after all.

@wyattc3508 6 ай бұрын

All this, and the Jetblue pilot sounds like hes barely staying awake.

@skyserf 6 ай бұрын

Scheduled departure was 1900. The pilot could just have a chill demeanor though.

@Tiger313NL 6 ай бұрын

Or like he's baked lol

@JimAllen-Persona 6 ай бұрын

@@Tiger313NLGives the phrase “sparking one up” an entirely new context 😂 Honestly, he just sounds chill. Odd in context with the rest on NYC demeanor.

@W.F.Fischer 6 ай бұрын

Oh yessss!

@scullystie4389 6 ай бұрын

He sounds like Hans Moleman lol

@clownhands 6 ай бұрын

“The runway is all yours” I love seeing how JFK controllers, famous for having zero patience, are instantly accommodating and helpful the second an emergency arises. Consummate professionals. Bravo.

@wintercame 6 ай бұрын

Jet Blue 355, casual: "Uh, you can send the crash...if we're on fire." "Does it still look like we're on fire?"

@lyaneris 6 ай бұрын

Not unlikely they fired a bottle of extinguisher into it before asking 😂

@beltlinebandit9694 6 ай бұрын

Starting at 2:50 the tower states it "might" need to sweep the runway for debris. The Delta A330 pilot chimes in to all but force a sweep and cover his ass if his plane gets damaged. Safety first!

@jayschafer1760 6 ай бұрын

Yes, good call by that pilot. Too many emergencies and even crashes and lives lost caused by FOD from a previously damaged aircraft. I was thinking that... Can other pilots request a runway sweep before they go down the same runway or taxiway that a (now emergency) aircraft went? I'm not a pilot, but if I were I'd be tempted to directly ask in those situations before moving the plane. Only takes a couple of minutes to send a car out there to do a sweep. Seems like it should be standard procedure after any type of engine flames etc.

@canadave 6 ай бұрын

@@jayschafer1760 Pilots absolutely can request anything they want. ATC can then respond how they want...and then the pilot making the request can decide go/no-go if the answer isn't to their liking.

@joshcinelli7603 6 ай бұрын

I know I was screamimg to do a sweep in my head when he directed the 1st jet turn onto the runway prior to doing one! Glad Delta spoke up.

@jyggalag169 6 ай бұрын

Props to that endeavor flight for the assist.

@simonhutchings6073 6 ай бұрын

The JetBlue pilot sounds so laid-back , all in a day’s work.😃

@davidmoser3535 6 ай бұрын

Almost hesitant

@jackmatthews7733 6 ай бұрын

@@davidmoser3535 Yes, almost sounds sleepy.

@trr4488 6 ай бұрын

Sounds like a weirdo of some sort.

@sierrabravo7156 6 ай бұрын

Maybe the weed?

@davesnothere. 6 ай бұрын

@@trr4488 He sounds less like a qualified airline pilot and more like the new kid working McD's drive through.

@AliceJaimie 6 ай бұрын

I quite often listen to JFK tower/ground to help me sleep at night (I like the chatter and I live in the UK so it’s nice and busy at JFK whilst I’m nodding off). I woke up to this in the middle of the night but was too sleepy to retain anything other than that there was a serious-sounding emergency. Thanks for answering that question 😂

@conquerordie230 6 ай бұрын

That one pilot sounds like Eeyore lol. “My engine is still on fire? Ok.”

@Molon_Labe1776 6 ай бұрын

I thought that too, but after listening to his voice and reading another comment, Hans Moleman from _The Simpsons_ is it.

@stephenbritton9297 6 ай бұрын

In addition to PAPD ARFF crews, an Alert 3 at either airport gets a second alarm response from the FDNY with numerous special units to assist. 13 engine companies (many bringing support vehicles), 4 trucks, 2 rescues, 2 squad companies, 11 command officers, 11 support units and vehicles, and a fireboat. That's like every FD in my entire county!

@lyaneris Ай бұрын

I like how ATC clearly enounciates the '3', since alert 2 is somewhat common at jfk

@another_pointless_account4130 6 ай бұрын

Correction: 2:02 "The right engine is just glowing at the back, it does not look like it's on fire."

@VASAviation 6 ай бұрын

Makes much more sense to continue taxi. Thanks.

@biosparkles9442 6 ай бұрын

I didn't even notice that had been transcribed incorrectly because the "not" was so clear in the audio

@bd5289 6 ай бұрын

Pilots were all quick to help each other and get that handled

@maffysdad 6 ай бұрын

One of the calmest, clearest, supportive and coordinated take-off aborts I've watched in a long time.

@BruiserFL 6 ай бұрын

Correction needed at 2:02 "Endeavor pilot says.... "it does NOT look like it is on fire".

@arenn5384 6 ай бұрын

I aim to be as chill in life as that JetBlue pilot

@LandYacht 6 ай бұрын

Nice to hear that Hans Moleman became a JetBlue pilot! lol

@scullystie4389 6 ай бұрын

You beat me to it lol

@galdavonalgerri2101 6 ай бұрын

just learned who Mr Moleman is. His name is Hans Maulwurf in German translated episodes.

@FolgoreCZ 6 ай бұрын

"Your engine is on fire." "Oh dear."

@Molon_Labe1776 6 ай бұрын

😂😂😂

@michaelkitchin9665 6 ай бұрын

Hans Moleman presents: Plane getting hit by football.

@corjp 6 ай бұрын

Great to see that Aviators are always looking out for each other when amongst themselves.

@allaboutaviation787 6 ай бұрын

Great handling of the situation by ATC and all pilots involved

@crab453 6 ай бұрын

Jetblue took his chill pills today

@joshyaks 6 ай бұрын

From listening to the Jetblue pilot talk, it's clear that the smoke and flames were caused by the big fat one he was smoking.

@bardo0007 6 ай бұрын

I agree, they should test him for drugs

@jimmybx0072 6 ай бұрын

My guy just hit a massive whip it prior to throttle up...

@tawogtrailers 6 ай бұрын

English isn't his first language so he's just speaking slowly and calmly as possible. Speaking in a panic in broken English wouldn't help the situation

@tyketto8 5 ай бұрын

Lmao😂

@docnele 6 ай бұрын

It sounds like Jet Blue is manned by 1st officer Droopy and Capt. Wolf.

@TrainerAQ 6 ай бұрын

I absolutely love this comment. Thank you! XD

@anderswahlgren9308 6 ай бұрын

As a HAM it is extremely satisfying to listen to this type of radio discipline.

@RemcovanZuijlen 6 ай бұрын

I'm also a HAM, but the other pilots didn't always use their callsign, even though it may be easy to guess after all. (73 de pa4tw)

@ChristopherT_ 6 ай бұрын

idk why everyone is roasting the pilot for the comms. sounds like he's doing his best to stay calm, analyze the situation and probably coordinating an evacuation between the flight attendants. Gotta love the professionalism at JFK edit: he might be ESL, which would make sense

@HeidiKohne 6 ай бұрын

It's likely the First Officer on the comms

@andij605 6 ай бұрын

He sounds more like a very old airforce pilot more than ESL

@TrainerAQ 6 ай бұрын

You guys are fast. 😂 Only correction would be Endeavor mentioning the the engine just glowing in the back. It does not look like it's on fire. But it looks like the comment section already got it.

@danc3488 6 ай бұрын

You won't find a clearer, more coordinated, more efficient emergency communications than the ones at JFK when something goes down. This was incredible work by all involved. Props to Endeavour and Delta for spotting the flames. Interesting that they said they had no APU and didn't want to shut down the other engine. I mean at that point, does it even matter? The plane wasn't going anywhere.

@Michael_K_Woods 6 ай бұрын

Seems like they average at least 3 a week. Lots of practice.

@treimers95 6 ай бұрын

If you don't want to have to tow the thing all the way back to the gate

@realulli 6 ай бұрын

No APU and no engine also means, no aircon, no lights in the cabin, only emergency power in the avionics, etc. They have a plane full of people. I'm not sure how long they can last with no air condition...

@yuwtze 6 ай бұрын

I believe if they shut down the engine with no APU, they will have no heat or ventilation in the cabin, and would either have to be towed in, or have to bring out ground equipment to restart the engine. That would make the situation far more complicated, so no sense doing that unless necessary.

@PilotDaveLI 6 ай бұрын

@@realulliyou mean heat! It's cold up here 😁

@aliancemd 6 ай бұрын

It feels like the second pilot is in slow motion compared to everybody else there.

@pondscummagnetfishing 6 ай бұрын

Really good detail reporting from the other pilots and responses from the tower. Handled in a straight forward, calm, efficient manner by all.

@henryj.8528 6 ай бұрын

The pilot reminds me of Tony Shalhoub's character in Galaxy Quest ("They say the reactor is about to blow up...Just FYI...")

@Screamypuff 6 ай бұрын

I realize that this is a great example of proper training....but Jetblue's pilot sounds like he took an herbal lunch or at least a couple of hits before take off lmao 😂 dude was not fazed at allll.

@JoeRantCT 6 ай бұрын

ATC was so good on this one. I have a small single engine and I fly in the NY area. They are the best. Always accomodating and professional.

@nj81499 6 ай бұрын

Great video and great job in such a short amount of time. 👍

@matthewbeasley7765 6 ай бұрын

I'm surprised the Endever pilot agreed to line up and wait. I would have thought he'd ask for a FOD walk before using the runway.

@michaelflynn458 6 ай бұрын

Car 99 "runway sweep" is a FOD procedure.

@matthewbeasley7765 6 ай бұрын

@@michaelflynn458 That was called by ATC. Initially the aircraft was cleared to line up and wait and the Endever pilot started to move until the clearance was canceled by ATC. I'm surprised the clearance wasn't rejected right away.

@konsul2006 6 ай бұрын

Great teamwork, as it should be!

@workinonit4752 6 ай бұрын

Another great video! Thank you for your hard work!

@tatratrading 6 ай бұрын

I am always amazed how professional everyone is and how everyone knows exactly what and how they’re doing it. Like clockwork.

@k1mgy 6 ай бұрын

Clearing another aircraft to line up and wait on the same runway location where an engine possibly exploded does not earn a gold star. Additionally, the comms were long with considerable unnecessary discussion. "Professional" is not what I'd call it.

@VictoryAviation 6 ай бұрын

@@k1mgySo it wasn’t perfect, as any emergency situation rarely is. But they all certainly remained professional. And they did a pretty damned good job all around. Everyone was switched on and reacted appropriately.

@suzieb8366 6 ай бұрын

Excellent team work!

@goldridder 6 ай бұрын

Great professionalism from everyone. Amazing.

@BruiserFL 6 ай бұрын

Thanks!

@VASAviation 6 ай бұрын

Thank you for the support!

@Dainus77 6 ай бұрын

Total professionals, all of them. 👌👍

@icare7151 6 ай бұрын

Another great video thank you!

@VASAviation 6 ай бұрын

Thanks again!

@1972challenger 6 ай бұрын

Jet Blue woke up from his nap to an engine fire.

@whatever1663 6 ай бұрын

Dang Ricky Bobby you're on fire!

@ChasenSFO 6 ай бұрын

I recognize that CA, he was super cool when I'd talk to him on SFO ramp freq. Ahoy there amigo nice job

@elizabeth5985 6 ай бұрын

Love those New York accents! And love your graphics, that was a big bonus.

@VASAviation 6 ай бұрын

Thank you

@mikeafulton2893 6 ай бұрын

excellent work by ATC

@Hopeless_and_Forlorn 6 ай бұрын

Love to hear a pilot slow down his speech in an emergency. This guy is not going to shut down the wrong engine or make a wrong turn.

@ashc151 6 ай бұрын

1:58 @VASAviation The Endeavour says "The right engine is just glowing at the back, It does *NOT* look like it's on fire" - the caption says the opposite. This is why the JetBlue says they can taxi off.

@vincemck2002 3 ай бұрын

Well handled by everyone.....very impressively calm and confident.

@jamiesuejeffery 6 ай бұрын

All in all, a great job to everyone. I am not a pilot, but I am an amateur radio operator. I currently have 8 different radios that I am monitoring. I run a net one, sometimes twice a week. We all have our own cadences. Don't give garbage to the pilots or controllers. We all have our own cadence.

@pjs835 5 ай бұрын

The JFK emergency crews are studs on the radio, perfect read-back and communication. I’ve never worked at an airport where field maintenance or emergency response weren’t completely tripping over the freq.

@demi3115 6 ай бұрын

"Jetblue is on fire" "the plane on the runway is on fire" ATC: "what?"

@midks 6 ай бұрын

Love the slooooow talk of the 1st officer. Keep calm. Heheh

@VASAviation 6 ай бұрын

How do you know where he was sitting?

@TrainerAQ 6 ай бұрын

I love how everyone assumes the slow talking guy is the First Officer. It's quite funny to me XD

@JustinJackson11 6 ай бұрын

@@VASAviationfor my company, after a reject. The CA handles the emergency and FO does the radio comms.

@VASAviation 6 ай бұрын

@@JustinJackson11 Is your company JBU? That'd solve the questions. If it is not, I stick to what I have learned from reading several airline SOPs which say that Captain has control and communications and FO fights the problems with the QRH or any other checklist on hand.

@JustinJackson11 6 ай бұрын

@@VASAviation Not yet, until the judge approves the pending merger. We operate very similarly and for a rejected takeoff, the CA takes control and deals with decisions inside the plane once stopped. The FO handles comms while the CA works with the cabin crew in the event of an evacuation.

@InteriorDesignStudent 6 ай бұрын

JetBlue pilot, sounding completely unaffected. Passengers on the right side of the plane? Hysterical screaming.

@FrankRuiz66 6 ай бұрын

Kennedy Ground setting the standard in ground ops

@UnexpectedTokens Ай бұрын

"Does it still look like we are on fire?" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

@laaaliiiluuu 6 ай бұрын

"This plane is on fireeeeeee" Alicia Keys

@chris3356 4 ай бұрын

Idk why people are complaining that the pilot is so calm?! What do you want a pilot freaking out over something that is being handled calm and professionally?!?

@macnorman 6 ай бұрын

The Jetblue pilot sounded like Jeff Lebowski aka "The Dude"

@IcthioVelocipede 6 ай бұрын

"JetBlue is on fire." "Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

@macmedic892 6 ай бұрын

⁠”I’m sorry, I wasn’t listening.”

@nefinocontartese 6 ай бұрын

What’s wrong with the 355 pilot??? Drunk?? Old?? Or just don’t realice he is on fire?? Droopy became a pilot??? Who knows……

@jetodessa5484 6 ай бұрын

Teamwork 🎉

@kiefmanning7394 3 ай бұрын

This is why I started a petition for rear view mirrors in all aircraft.

@gracelandone 6 ай бұрын

ATC on top of it. Excellent. Pilot on radio sounds stoned out of his mind.

@tawogtrailers 6 ай бұрын

English isn't his first language so he's just speaking slowly and calmly as possible. Speaking in a panic in broken English wouldn't help the situation

@tawogtrailers 6 ай бұрын

English isn't his first language so he's just speaking slowly and calmly as possible. Speaking in a panic in broken English wouldn't help the situation

@gracelandone 6 ай бұрын

@@tawogtrailers seems to me being able to speak the standard language of aviation clearly, quickly, and succinctly should be germane in the hiring process. Were I a passenger and this delivery came over the intercom, I would be alarmed.

@tawogtrailers 6 ай бұрын

@@gracelandone then you should never fly again based on that logic

@steveabrams777 6 ай бұрын

aaaahhhhhh ... the results of true professionals collaborating...

@thedevilinthecircuit1414 6 ай бұрын

@2:05 correction: "The right engine is just glowing in the back; it does *not* look like it's on fire."

@repatch43 6 ай бұрын

Is it normal to allow a flight with a non functioning APU? Or is there another reason they reported 'no APU'?

@VASAviation 6 ай бұрын

Very common to dispatch an aircraft with APU inop

@1947dave 6 ай бұрын

@@VASAviation That sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Fortunately for Sully, his APU was working.

@jayschafer1760 6 ай бұрын

@@1947davePlanes have FAA-approved lists of equipment that they are allowed to have inoperable and still fly. Sometimes those restrictions vary based on flight types, e.g., I doubt a plane without a working APU would be allowed to do an ETOPS or long over water flight.

@1947dave 6 ай бұрын

@@jayschafer1760 Good point, but that restriction wouldn't have helped Sully and Skiles to achieve their miracle - the working APU made things one whole lot better for the pilots and may have saved the day.

@VASAviation 6 ай бұрын

Not at all. Sully was one among how many flights since A320 was built? It's statistics

@gpslightlock1422 Ай бұрын

Alert 3: Indicates that an aircraft has crashed on or off the airport, or there is a high probability the aircraft will crash, or the pilot has indicated that the aircraft landing gear will not work and, therefore, the pilot will have to crash land on the airport. Source: City of Phoenix

@strangemachines_ 6 ай бұрын

God at the end there I thought the pilot asked if he can taxi back for take off lmao - I was like noooooo fuck off 😹 but he meant to the gate

@spamlessaccount 6 ай бұрын

Is that guy (JBU) on ludes? Gnarly, dude!

@williamheiden5240 6 ай бұрын

Rescue 1 is most definitely a New Yorker thru and thru!

@jasond1500 6 ай бұрын

I think that JetBlue pilot got a bag of those special gummies I keep seeing advertised on KZfaq.

@roadrunner6224 6 ай бұрын

Jetblue on fire Your controller is terrified Jetblue on fire

@wll1500 6 ай бұрын

Seems like having no functional APU would be a big liability in a dual engine failure scenario. Cant believe they're allowed to operate without one

@VASAviation 6 ай бұрын

It's really common to do that.

@wll1500 6 ай бұрын

@@VASAviation .... Like why?

@VASAviation 6 ай бұрын

@@wll1500 because the probabilities of having a dual engine failure is so remote that flying without the APU is permitted with some restrictions. Every big airliners have the APU inop listed in the MEL

@wll1500 6 ай бұрын

@@VASAviation Cactus 1549. I thought we learned our lesson.

@VASAviation 6 ай бұрын

One of how many flights in 50 years? Grounding an aircraft for a broken APU? Definitely not

@steveo8991 3 ай бұрын

Some mechanics are about to get some tasty overtime.

@jerseyshoredroneservices225 6 ай бұрын

27 gusting 37, 40* off center. Not a day for amateurs to fly but nbd for airline pilots.

@e.f.9963 6 ай бұрын

Can someone explain to me, why the emergency aircraft had no APU available? Why couldn't they just start the APU?

@VASAviation 6 ай бұрын

Inoperative

@carlosmelendez7247 6 ай бұрын

This video is a good example for those aviation enthusiast that want to become pilots just heard how tired that Jetblue pilot sounds and is incredible because that was his first leg coming out of base.

@XJwolf4 6 ай бұрын

Man I hope that pilot never has to do any presentations. He’d give Ben stein a run for his money lol.

@Aviator381 6 ай бұрын

How the hell has all of this happened and it’s only been 16 days into 2024

@rayodell8213 6 ай бұрын

I don't know if it was the captain or second officer but one of them sounded like a character from a 50's cartoon 😅😂🤣😵‍💫

@delroyl427 6 ай бұрын

Is ONT cursed?😂😂😂 2 in a row

@georgeforall 6 ай бұрын

Two recent incidents involving ONT as destination.

@Iamthelolrus 6 ай бұрын

Jetblue. Jetblue? Jetblue is on fire!

@tvdan1043 6 ай бұрын

We don't need no water...

@PetrolHeadBrasil 6 ай бұрын

Were the pilots suffering from hypoxia?! That pilot was NOT ok!!! Dear Lord!

@richardmcgowan1651 6 ай бұрын

Given wth what happened in Japan. When you see a plane burn its goes up fast.

@alexandertoshich765 6 ай бұрын

God Bless the FireFighters.

@roberta5268 6 ай бұрын

This a321 and the max 9 also are making flight to ontario KONT, something wrong about this destionation 👀

@essel23fly 6 ай бұрын

what's up with the JetBlue pilot he sounds like he's talking in slow motion

@johnpatrick1588 6 ай бұрын

Listening to the JB F/O a little yellow school bus came to mind. I was getting sleepy waiting for him finish a sentence.

@VASAviation 6 ай бұрын

Why do you think that's the FO talking?

@raysutton2310 6 ай бұрын

The pilot sound to be either totally out of it or laid back to the point of being horizontal. Assuming the latter - nice job!

@SlyAceZeta 6 ай бұрын

Imagine being EDV5023 having to do the next takeoff attempt.

@marysmith9361 6 ай бұрын

Wonder if something like this makes the other pilots and passengers waiting, uncomfortable? The pilot with the burning engine is very laid back!

@SpankMyFace 6 ай бұрын

The pilot on the radio sounds like his brain is working at 30% capacity.

@johnpatrick1588 6 ай бұрын

I wonder what the flying public as a whole would think if they knew how many things go wrong daily with airliners or actions across the country. Only a fraction hits national or local news cycles.

@danc3488 6 ай бұрын

Because 95% of it is not that bad and is negligible to people, only resulting in long delays and re-bookings to the passengers. Engine failures are more common than people think.

@lauxmyth 6 ай бұрын

Know as a raw number or as a percentage?? As a percentage, it is small. This is not a big event in the industry. Emergency plans are all in place and were done.

@jayschafer1760 6 ай бұрын

I always encourage people to watch these videos. It's very, VERY encouraging to me to see the professionalism and the many checks and balances in situations like this, and rarely do you hear any panic or more than a moderate amount of stress in the voices. Just another day at the office for well trained professionals!

@liam3284 6 ай бұрын

Its not such a surprise stuff goes wrong, it's more about how they respond to stuff going wrong that gives aircraft a good safety reputation. Even In the case of that plug door falling off, they had prior warning of a problem with pressure.

@JAMESWUERTELE 6 ай бұрын

Spitting part numbers all over the runway

@jaxonboys3366 5 ай бұрын

Sounds like the pilot flipped his blunt out just before T/O and the engine ingested the thing.

@brianwest2775 6 ай бұрын

Is it a risk going back to the gate rather than offloading away from the buildings? Rescue didn't see any problems but could there be a fuel leak or other risk that's not yet large enough for them to see?

@johnmedeiros8975 6 ай бұрын

I was part of the 911 response to this incident. FDNY spared no units... I'll never forget seeing that incredible amount of apparatus heading down the van wyck to the airport. There must've been at least 30 units assigned.

@VASAviation 6 ай бұрын

Why so many units for a "normal" engine fire inside the airport property? Was it reported any other way?

@johnmedeiros8975 6 ай бұрын

Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Any report of a fire on a plane engine automatically generates an epic response. The potential for catastrophe and loss of life from a plane fire is too high to not use the kitchen sink approach. @@VASAviation