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If this is about drugs, I don’t want to watch this video. Im sick of the subject and sick of the people that promote it.

Wear a disguise and have Peter Hitchens back on.

A conversation with "Earthling Ed" on veganism would be a worthwhile investment of time.

Alex's logic got me to veganism, I thank him for that; vegan bodybuilders aren't going to take me away from it.

It isn't Alex's fault for giving up veganism. He doesn't have the free will to make the conscious decision.

Congrats on the announcement of your dual only fans with Sam Harris

The vegan bodybuilder argument is essentially the same as saying "You can't say that causing unnecessary suffering to children is always wrong because we're all wearing clothes made by kids in sweatshops and it doesn't seem right to condemn everyone wearing clothes." This doesn't invalidate the claim that severely beating kids for fun is wrong.

How would you expect a top-down regulation approach to solving factory farming to work if the citizenry is not sufficiently on board with a boycott of the industry? If government is going to do anything about factory farming then it's a prerequisite that a sufficient portion of the population agrees with such a measure, which requires convincing enough people that the industry is morally unacceptable, entailing that they ought to be boycotting it as a bare minimum.

The crop death / vegan bodybuilder objection only exists because these industries are themselves not Vegan, if they were they would actively work to prevent those crop deaths to the maximum degree possible. But as it is, in animal agriculture it would be absolutely bizarre to work to prevent the deaths of mice if the end goal of your industry was to kill cows, pigs etc

On vegan body builders. Take the approach of vegan body builders as role models and examples of positivity in the vegan community. Many vegan body builders are open about their diet and an influence for others that you can eat vegan and be strong. Take the scenario: Body builder A: Over eats vegan food and gains muscle in solitude Body builder B: Over eats vegan food, but had a positive impact on the veganism movement and collectively convinces 1 person to become vegan. Thus, reduce suffering once more. Minimal vegan A: Eats a minimal amount to survive. Does not influence others. If Body builder B convinces one person to be vegan, or even one person to reduce animal consumption. Then is it justified? When considered a utilitarian approach. All scenarios should be considered.

I agree that excessive calorie intake shouldn’t be a position for vegans/bodybuilders, neither should be unnecessary holidays and plane journeys or any sort of excessive consumption. But you don’t have to be a bodybuilder, you can be a normal vegan a minimalist. Just because vegan bodybuilders aren’t doing their best, shouldn’t make you go back consuming animal products.

The Vegan Bodybuilder argument is interesting but I want to mention some counterpoints... 1. Being a vegan bodybuilder is a huge promotion for veganism. If even just one person converted to veganism because of you, you'd have made up for the extra calories impact. 2. The alternative to cropland is often natural eco-systems with inherent suffering caused by predation. While it would be questionable to claim that cropland is more ethical than natural systems, we should at least use the approximate suffering within natural systems as a baseline to compare cropland to, effectively lowering the relative impact of cropland compared to animal farms. 3. In the future, harvesting methods that greatly reduce or even eliminate animal suffering are possible to implement. But before we can raise the bar and demand that next level of ethical standard, veganism must become the norm, bodybuilders included. 4. In terms of voting with your money, eating more and thus buying more is essentially more votes towards ethical agriculture. 5. Any positive change is better than no positive change. The difference between being a meat eater bodybuilder and a vegan bodybuilder is gigantic compared to the difference between being a normal vegan as opposed to a vegan bodybuilder. So while you can argue against absolutism you can't really argue against veganisms principles to reduce suffering and increase prosperity. 6. I think it's reasonable to say that the value bodybuilders get from bodybuilding is perhaps greater than the mere hedonistic pleasure of animal consumption. It's not a strong reason by itself, but it is one more score for the vegan bodybuilder. 7. The particular crops that vegan bodybuilders are likely to consume more of are peas (via protein powder) and beans. In my understanding these plant foods cause far less animal suffering and death than many other plant crops. Yet another win for the vegan bodybuilder. Food for thought 😉

I know that you weren't arguing against veganism ofc, but here's my two cents. I agree that there can't be a strict rule that just any choice causing unnecessary suffering is wrong. Or, at the very least, we can't say any such choice is wrong on the same level that eating factory farmed meat is wrong. Perhaps we can say that eating more veggies than necessary is akin to reckless driving at night- it's obviously endangering others, so it's wrong, but it's not the same as hitting others on purpose because you find it funny. This is because the former doesn't have the same level of certainty of harm as the latter- if you recklessly drive, you might not even hurt anybody. If you eat more veggies than necessary, you might not even be responsible for a crop death. However, I think that we can say that realistically, the vegan eating extra calories is really causing negligible harm, and the vegan bodybuilder is helping to convince others to go vegan, thereby producing much more benefit than harm. But more essentially, we can say that any choice which causes significantly less suffering AND which negligibly impacts quality of life (or even improves it) is worth making and is incumbent upon ourselves to make. End of essay lol

Please talk to someone in the vegan ethics/debate sphere. Dr. Avi, Ask Yourself, Nutrivore, Vegan Gaze, Lifting Vegan Logic, Debug Your Brain just to name a few. These questions of yours have long since been ironed out by the vegan community but it seems you haven't been willing to engage with any of them since announcing your ex-veganism.

Would you be interested in debating me on veganism and related topics like why you quit, whether or not it was justified, and advocacy like individual boycotting vs legistlation?

On the vegan bodybuilder thing, why would a vegan not just say "Sure, vegan bodybuilding is sligthly unethical for the reasons you mention, but it's still a ton better than regular bodybuilding. In fact, what's immoral is bodybuilding itself, vegan or not, just because it requires so many extra calories. So if someone is going to do bodybuilding, it's still much better for them to be vegan than not. And so vegan bodybuilding is not unethical enough to condemn. Sure, there are virtually always things we can do to be even more ethical than we are, but we don't need to be saints to try our best to do right." I'm not a vegan at all but that doesn't seem like a big problem for them

Aniamls killed in crop production, is vastly different to intentionally bringing conscious beings into existence, then intentionally ending their lives. People killed in road accidents is vastly different than purposefully driving a vehicle into pedestrians, even if the people killed in road accidents are killed by drivers who were driving for pleasure, not for practical reasons. Furthermore, Vegan body builders show that Vegans can gain muscle and strength, this may help promote veganism and lessen animal exploitation.

9:12 is a particularly weak moment for me. Waving away the fact that crop deaths are a contingent problem by saying ‘well, until we reach a world where that contingency is eliminated, death by combine harvester or butcher doesn’t matter to the animal - let’s have this conversation again when that world materialises.’ ignores the fact that we CAN reach that world THROUGH veganism. It’s a classic case of philosophy missing the forest from the trees, considering edge cases while ignoring practical steps that objectively reduce suffering.

Can't express how excited to see you being interested in art history. Can't wait to see how that pans out.

the rabbit hole of a vegan bodybuilder causing indirect harm can easily swing the other way. maybe directly/indirectly, a vegan bodybuilder inspires others to also replace their bodybuilding with veganism, thus reducing the meat consumption of a group likely to eat the most amount of meat. maybe, their vegan bodybuilding allows them the strength to pull someone off the edge of a cliff where otherwise they wouldn't have the muscle mass and thus strength to do so at their current weight. maybe not the last one, but maybe... like the idea that someone that says "ANY unnecessary harm is wrong" wouldn't have stipulations to this is a pretty wild concept where the word 'unnecessary' does a lot of heavy lifting. i'm not a vegan, nor very well versed in arguments regarding it but that entire segment felt like an incredibly weak argument that has so many flaws in it. all to go "i guess SOMETIMES we can justify it"

I'm a muslim and since your debate with Muhammad Hijab.. I was like.. wait, this atheist actually feels honest as opposed to what I'm used to (basically, mostly resorting to irony or ridicule and winning the crowd, instead of actually appreciating the theists arguments and trying to answer with reason.. I've been subscribed and watching your content since then.. within reason had become my favourite thing on youtube. Thanks for all the efforts ☕

Congratulations on hitting 750k, Alex! It's been an absolute pleasure listening to you so far, and I'm excited to see where your channel goes.

The Vegan Bodybuilder argument is very odd and even disingenuous.

Just like environmentalism, we don't need to take an either/or approach. Thinking that the movement would work better as a top down movement doesn't mean it's not important for individuals to change and to encourage that change. In fact, it's necessary. That said, I do prefer to think of veganism as a philosophy rather than a prescriptive way of living. "Recude the amount of unnecessary harm you cause" is a realistic and consistent way of living. It's not possible to entirely prevent unnecessary harm and I do know there are vegans out there who think that's what they're doing by being vegan. Those people are, of course, wrong. That doesn't mean we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater though. Individuals constantly working to reduce the amount of unncessary harm they cause does make the world a better place to live in. I think its possible to believe that causing unnecessary harm is wrong across the board while also acknowledging that it's going to happen anyways and we seem to tolerate it to some degree even if we think it would be best to do otherwise. Vegan bodybuilders included.

Congrats Alex... like my dad would say, "What do you mean by...". This has been one of the best things he left my sister and I. So much miscommunication because we never define the words we use. We can be using the same exact word, but because of life experiences we each have a different definition. Stopping to ask what do you mean by, is a great way to gain clarity and understanding.

Huge congrats! You deserve way more than 750k, can't wait for more milestones to be broken!

I usually find milestone Q&A's pretty boring, but not this one! Fantastic content, as usual.

Major congrats! Started watching you because of your “therapy session” with Peter Hitchens, became a big fan of your content instantly. Keep up the great work! 😊🎉

From a utilitarian point of view, there is no evidence to suggest crop deaths from agriculture causes more harm / suffering than the wild deaths taking place on the same area of land. Those wild animals live and die on that land already suffer from predation. A cricket will either: be eaten alive by a bird, or die from a combine harvester. In contrast; farm animals are intentionally artificially bread into existence for the purpose of being harmed and killed. And realistically, those excess deaths all involve horrific slaughterhouse dungeons. In other words: the crop deaths argument might not even exist at all. That means any anti-vegan arguments using it as a foundation (vegan junk food, vegan bodybuilders etc) are being propped up by something that disappears when properly examined.

Congrats on 750k! Been following you for 5+ years, it's been really nice to see your growth

While a vegan bodybuilder might eat more while bulking, they offset that by eating less when cutting. You could say that being a bodybuilder is immoral because they choose to have a body that uses more resources, but then that goes for all athletes. All athletes choose to do more physical activity(and therefore use more energy) than is strictly necessary for their health.

Congrats on 750k bro! Road to a million.

I think your point about unnecessary suffering doesn't quite land. If we try to steelman the vegan position for a moment: what if their being publicly buff and vegan convinces people to go vegan, making the extra animals they caused to die ultimately worth it. So we can acknowledge the excess food they eat as a kind of necessary evil. Personally, I find the idea that vegan bodybuilders may be doing something wrong to forward a greater good WAY easier to accept than that "unnecessary suffering isn't always wrong."

Thanks Alex, inspiring channel and work overall.

I feel that viewing Veganism as a movement to change the Overton’s window is also a useful way to consider it, rather than as an individual boycott. If more people are vegan, over time-hopefully-it may become common sense to farm in ways that reduce animal suffering. Just a thought.

23:21 I very much enjoy the sense of pride I felt come from you when describing how you overslept a 1pm exam. I felt that, as a former engineering student, and I am glad to know that we are like creatures

Vegan bodybuilding isn't unethical. An increase in demand of calories from plants increases demand in cropland. To say that it's unethical requires you to show that more deaths occur on cropland than on wildland. And that data doesn't exist as far as I'm aware.

YOU'RE AWESOME ALEX!! I'm looking forward to seeing you hit 1 million and I'm going to be there on your journey every step of the way. Keep up the amazing work that you do!

You’re an inspiration Alex! Thanks for helping me along my critical thinking journey

Does your new stance on unnecessary suffering not contradict the argument you use for the problem of evil?

This is why I dislike the unnecessary suffering argument when it should be a rights based argument. Crop deaths are not rights violations but intentionally killing an animal bred for slaughter is a rights violation

Love listening to your conversations! I especially like the way you avoid the pitfalls of polarization, and maintain a clear head on very divided issues, even Veganism where I know you have a strong opinion. I sometimes talk to people that often are so emotionally attached to the supposed correctness of their belief that simply DISCUSSING why they think what they think becomes difficult (I feel like I saw that with your conversation with Konstantin Kissin recently). So I find that your calm and logical approach is something that I admire a lot and try to do too. Looking forward to any content you might make, Alex.

Thank you for ur amazing content Alex!

Been here since 2017 and it's been a privilege to watch you grow :)

Congratulations on hitting 750k! 🎉

Congratulations Alex and wishing you all the best.

congratulations alex! :> been a fan since your side part days

Congrats on overtaking GMS yet again. Hoping for 1 mill soon 🤞

the vegan bodybuilder argument is not the best tbh... youre eating animal products again bc vegan bodybuilders? mmm ok

You never cease to make me think about things - great video 🙏🙏

I totally thought you had a million plus already, we’ve come a long way baby, pretty exciting!

congratulations Alex!!

Really enjoying this channel.. Alex is refreshing

This video was amazing it gave me so much stuff to think of

I LOVE YOU ALEX!!

Just speak to Dr Avi Bitterman about veganism already. He covers both the empirical and philosophical

I'd love more content on how factory farming can be solved with a top-down approach

3/4 of the way to a million. Congrats.

I recently discovered your channel and am really enjoying it. I appreciate the respect you show to not only your guests, but also to the subject matter itself. Their are enough Matt Dillahunty types, rudely telling people to go F themselves, and thoughtlessly dismissing arguments that are atleast worthy of some consideration.

your podcast is a must listen for me, i've been loving your content lately.

It’s been a wild year! I remember only a year ago watching first your trolley problems, now you’re a recognized philosopher and political influencer/activist

Congrats, Alex!

Here's how Alex decieves you and himself in the vegan section of this video: 1) I could debunk the crop deaths arguments like so many already have, but veganism isn't supposed to be a numbers game to see how low we can get the death toll, and that any number higher than 0 is a failure. It's about changing consumer's mindset around animals. The way we think about animals determines how animals will live in perpetuity. Across a long enough time horizon, our intentions towards animals is what matters the most. He is being too short sighted about the consequences and that's why he believes intentions don't matter. 2) He creates a false dichotomy with the bodybuilding vegan scenario. That we must can either condemn or praise the vegan who eats more than he needs.There is absolutely no reason why we can't say a vegan bodybuilder is ever so slightly worse behaved than a vegan who eats just enough to live. It would be an incredibly nitpicky thing to do, but you can do it. I guess the complexity of life doesn't fit neatly enough into Alex's simple yes/no flow chart. 3) He still only approaches veganism from the utilitarian metric of suffering. He seems to either forget or intentionally exclude concepts of harm and exploitation. Here's a reminder of what "Humane" farming is like when applied to a human context: "would you like to be pampered by your overlords but must do exactly what they want and never be free? Would you like to be painlessly slaughtered without being made aware? No harm done right?" Of course this is wrong - and he showed this to be wrong in his conversation with Peter Singer. "Humane" Killing is robbing the person of future experiences. It's a form of external control and interference with their sovereignty / bodily autonomy. Do human rights restrictions have no value because they impede utilitarians from forcibly shaping the world into their vision of suffering-free utopia? If he believes this, it leads me to ask if he was ever a vegan or just an edgy utilitarian? 4) His rule of "I would only prescribe something that I can stick to" is nonsensical and has led him to irresponsible messaging on social media. Given what he still believes about veganism, why on earth can't he advocate for healthy able-bodied people to follow a vegan diet? His rule has no moral grounding, seems like an emotionally-driven choice made to prevent idiots from calling him a hypocritte.

The tears I’ve cried over that logic manual… relatively easy 🙈

Love the production quality of these. Blue is definitely your color.

23:46 The part where you talked about how to get out of a funk was beautifully said.

I don't get the reliance on the vegan bodybuilder example- aren't you also implying that anyone who eats any excess calories above exact maintenance is causing unnecessary suffering? Anyone who is slightly overweight / eats above maintenance/ has desert when they are full is also participating. It sounds like the logical conclusion to this is that everyone should eat the exact optimal number of calories all the time

I've been a fan and subscriber for a long time, from the early cosmic skeptic days. As a recent patron, I just know you'll get to 1 million very soon. I can't wait to read your book.

lovely content!

I'm a vegan now partially thanks to Alex introducing me to the subject. It's surreal and dissappointing to see how he's regressed back to crop death arguments and lukewarm lip service "objections" to factory farming. He's intentionally confused, because it's more convenient for him to be in a state of perpetual confusion without looking for an answer, than finding the answer (which vegans are all too happy to tell him if he'll listen). It's ethical procrastination in other words. But luckily i carried on my own research in the subject and found much better mentors, so ima be a vegan for life and i will never turn my back on the animals like he did. He did a lot for the vegan community even though it was short lived and he kinda sabotaged much of his messaging by the end.

Two things I will say in regards to the veganism argument is that I don’t think the condemnation of vegan bodybuilders is really a strong reason to give up on unnecessary suffering as a strong principle. That being said the point about property rights is interesting because I don’t feel like most people, even vegans, would argue that animals have the capacity for property rights so the question is kind of irrelevant. I don’t really know much about these sorts of arguments and might need to read some E. O. Wilson or something

It’s a shame you never answered the one question the vegan community had for you. Which is ‘why not just find a proper vegan dietician to help you?’

it's mind boggling that Alex only has 750k subs. His channel delivers some of the most groundbreaking, high production value content ever. I was convinced he was AT LEAST at a million!

23:46 Tho i didn't expect it, this whole segment was great and very much appreciated, great insight and point of view that i think needed to hear

You're forgetting that some animals are being killed by accident, which yes to the animals doesn't make a difference, but on the other side you have bred animals, you've specifically brought life (and capacity to suffer) into this world and then killed them. The killing is the same, but the reason they're even here is morally condemnable.

You need to be physically active to be healthy. It does not matter if you eat more because you run a lot or because you lift weights. If you are contemplating animal deaths from harvesting you could also contemplate countless other reasons animals might die because of your existence and that is just silly. Like the insects that get killed on your windshield when driving your car. Or the insects and worms when you stroll through a meadow. Bogus arguments for sure, as are the few hundred calories someone doing physical activity which is necessary for health anyway. That is why veganism only goes as far as possible and practicable which in itself is subject to interpretation. Not eating animals makes the most difference. Then there is a long distance in efficacy to the next thing which is to stop wearing animals. Everything else is so minuscule that it does not even make sense to mention it as is eating a few more calories. I think intent is also important. Sure you don't buy meat because you want animals to suffer but by buying you ask someone to intentionally raise animals for slaughter. How they are raised is completely irrelevant because they get slaughtered so soon into their lifespan that having a good life for livestock is at most comparable to a teenager getting killed. When a teenager dies people never say: "But he lived a good life." And there is a difference in being raised to be slaughtered and dying young by accident. Eating animals again because of a few hundred calories someone else is eating is just a cop-out.

Love your channel m8!

Oh boy these topics are so intriguing at least for me

Regarding vegan bodybuilding, I think “causing unnecessary suffering” is just inherently undefinable and a slippery slope. Alex is definitely right: Vegan body-builders consume unnecessary calories for muscle growth. Also, vegans do things like ordering take-out and delivery, which includes packaging that inflicts (albeit, indirectly) unnecessary harm (and suffering) on animals and their habitats. At times, vegans shop non-locally, again indirectly harming animals through transportation pollution. At times, vegans drink caloric beverages and caloric snacks based on taste pleasure, not pure caloric maintenance needs. Also, is going for a run “necessary”, if you’re going to have to consume even more vegan calories than you otherwise would have that day? Hell, should you have walked “unnecessarily”? That little stroll cost 90 calories. The analysis quickly slips into absurdity. Vegans, and no one else, can ever meet a strict standard of “cause no unnecessary harm”. “Necessary” requires listing the multitude of human physical and mental states and then asking is each one “necessary”? Is a physically and mentally “healthy” body even necessary? Or is pursuing one’s health kind of a “luxury”, taxed with the health of the planet? Maybe? But also, I don’t think vegans ever strictly mean, “only do exactly what is necessary.” Nutritionists and doctors might (and do) argue that everyone should be adding muscle to their bodies to fend off sarcopenia (muscle loss) in old age. We should be adding to our muscle “retirement plan”, they say. More broadly, they also argue for daily cardio and weight-resistance exercises for physical and mental health benefits. Both of these physical activities, again, require more than “maintenance calories”. They are medically prescribed, but they aren’t absolutely “required” (aka unnecessary) for our daily survival. I think what many vegans are actually trying to say is simply this: “It’s often hard to see the harm I’m causing animals with my daily behavior, but one sure way to know I’ve harmed an animal is if it’s currently in my mouth. So I’m gonna try and do things that don’t involve that.” Of course there’s more. But we (everyone) exhaust ourselves with guilt over personal action. We’re stuck in a seeming contradiction where we’re told constantly that we’re insignificant and our actions don’t matter, but also, every single thing we buy and consume is killing the planet, the future, and somebody, somewhere, right f-ing now, you a-hole! So it makes sense for both vegans and non-vegans to just want to throw up their hands. But anything, everything, you do to try to learn how the things we buy are produced, and the gradual movement away from obviously terrible means of production and toward not-so-obviously terrible ones is a goal I think we can all agree on. It’s exhausting, yes, but I think, if you just find people in your life who are behaving in ways you admire, just stick closer to them. Let them encourage you. Encouragement nourishes the exhausted. Nourishes like a delicious steak din-I mean, whoa. um. a vegetable stir-fry.

Were we ever saying that causing unnecessary suffering is always wrong? I thought it was: causing unnecessary suffering for trivial taste pleasure is wrong. Didn't you say "great suffering requires great justification"? This whole discussion about crop deaths feels a bit like a red herring to me. Yes, there is some harm there, you can argue that it's wrong, but it doesn't compare to eating meat, so why focus on it so much? And I think you'll find that most vegans agree that a top-down approach is what's needed... but it's hard to argue for that world while continuing to consume animal products yourself.

Would you ever consider getting a computer science or a physics degree? I nearly completed a philosophy minor along with my CS major, and I feel like learning CS gave me a pretty unique perspective on my philosophy courses, particularly thinking about philosophy of language and philosophy of science from a physicalist perspective with an understanding of algorithms. I think philosophy is best done when it's informed by hard science, so this might be something to consider!

Exclusive only patreon videos, knew it'll come

CS take on vegan bodybuilding would be similar to humans driving cars because the risk may lead to indirect human deaths and non-human deaths, which have several ways it can cause indirect deaths from encouraging urban sprawl, to increases in traffic, to pollution, from resources to produce the cars to driving the cars etc. This is only one aspect, CS rationale can be extended to pretty much any human output. CS view of veganism is also through a strict lens of utilitarianism while a threshold deontologist/deontologists will view these indirect deaths as not right violations, my intuition would suggest that most vegans are the latter. From a utilitarianism perspective, would CS be able to demonstrate that crops deaths cause more suffering than in the wild, in order to demonstrate that excess calories results in more animal deaths?

Well deserved and many more to come, I'm sure.

If we look at it from a Utilitarian perspective, Vegan bodybuilders also serve the additional purpose of showing the general public that it is possible to survive/thrive on a vegan diet!

I remember being at University 25 years ago. I'd reasoned out (I felt) that there couldn't be free will. My philosophy tutor disagreed. My Dad disagreed. My mum too. I felt really alone as my own analysis was at odds with all the key people in my life. I couldn't change how I thought though. It felt like a burden I carried. I parked it and enjoyed life, tried to do good things. Now there's growing movements in philosophy, physics, neuroscience that are skeptical of free will and it's kind of edifying. I wish I could comfort my lonely 21 yr old self with this knowledge that he was onto something. He'd be too busy eating chow mein pot noodles and playing sensible soccer on the amiga to listen though.

Where is the empirical evidence that shows that crop deaths inherently causes negative utility or rights violations? If there is evidence, can we objectively say that the body builder eating extra calories isn't overcoming the negative utility by showing what is possible with veganism, as well as any positive utility that comes along with vegan recruitment?

Nice he talks about etymology in this one. I love linguistics

Wow; fascinating - thank you!

@cosmicSkeptic On the topic veganism and body building, you are forgetting a consequentalist analysis: many vegan bodybuilders do it to prove the world you can be strong and develop a lot of muscle without the need of animal products. They are actual influencers, and cover an argument against veganism through proof. They are the living proof

I lot of people think that beauty is subjective. To my view, there is a subjective element to it, but there is a transcendence to it as well. I think your description of realizing the beauty of a tree points to that.

His advice for getting out of a funk was basically "clean your room" (petersonwave)

Congrats on the 750k! I love your channel, and I'm sure many other Christian's do as well. Also, one of WLC's lesser known (and discussed) works is on the atonement. Although the word is from middle english for "at onement", it is interesting to see how the word was used in translation of several Hebrew words in the OT which mean something like "to cleanse or purify". It's a very good in depth study that gets at the core of why Christian's believe Jesus died (although I think the annihilation view, which he doesn't hold, sheds additional light on the topic), and I'd love to hear you interview him on it after reading the bigger version or the smaller version of the book.

Love Alex but holy shit what a bad take on veganism, why would you even try to rework "crop deaths tho" and apply it to vegan bodybuilders Alex? Why would you compare the horrors of factory farming which is what veganism is primarily about, and take time on that topic to go after those who eat more calories than usual? I think because of your health complications, you've lost your way on the philosophical side related to veganism.

So Alex do you support factory farming with your diet?

27:49 I was having THIS EXACT THOUGHT a week ago, thank you for enlightening us!

Congratulations on the 750k! Can I ask if you have plans to interview more women on your podcast?

If only there were a group that said "avoid exploitation as far as practicable" instead of "Never cause unnecessary harm ever". What would that look like? It's just an argument from the futility of obtaining perfection. Nothing more.

Please speak to Nick or Avi on the crop issue