No way the legend himself is reacting to my video! Pog

the solo shuffle queue finally popping, then someone declining and then back into another 20 min queue is the most real part of the video

I think the reason retail CC feels so terrible is because it's the whiplash feeling of having your abilities/control taken from you so often. Like in 2 scenarios, if in 20 seconds you sat 10 seconds of CC... Option A. You sit a poly then a fear or something then had 10 seconds of uptime vs. Option B. You use one ability, eat a 2 second stun, another ability, eat a 1.5 second disorient, use another ability and eat a 3 second sleep, then a 1 second knockdown, then a 2.5 second stun. I'd choose Option A every goddamn time. In option B, You may have only been CCed for 10 seconds, but your entire gameplay was hard disrupted for for the full 20 seconds. That's the world we live in right now, and honestly it's just frustrating when there's almost zero downside to just mashing micro CCs as if they're part of a damage rotation.

I used to play with a friend around 2.2k we never pushed glad because we didn't have a third, so we convinced a friend from college and tought him everything we knew. 1k to 1400 was easy, but from 1400 to 1600 was a pain in the ass, just because of addons, had to teach him how to use them and read the information, he managed to up his dps but got hardstuck at 1700, so we decided push to 1800 to get him the elite set, we did it and all of us unsuscribed, I was healing btw

Barrier to entry is high. Most new players have to dig thru a lot of "unsub", "uninstall", "go kill yourself" feedback till they learn to play.

The comment about Bajheera😂. That's most of his vids, one shooting people in greens while being trailed by 2-4 healers. It looks bad ass for sure

Blizzard should implement a ui that tells you the abilities your opponent used last 5-10 seconds before the death happened so the player can learn.

As a Resto shaman, id like to have about half the amount of spells. The REAL bloat is multipliers.

The competitive nature has become overwhelming for people. Tell me if I'm wrong. You need to know which cooldowns you have ready at all times, track your enemies cooldowns, buffs, casts and interrupt timers and set up a proper UI to help you do this. Develop an awareness for your own and other players positioning which is something that also takes time and practice. Always be ready for counter play when the enemy uses big cooldowns to make a move. Make sure you know when to make a move. Know how to perform at max output with your own class. You need to develop a sense of intuition to read your opponents (which is another long term skill learned over time) by actively paying attention and watching how people play which could all change as you move up in ranks. You can either A: go in naked without knowing anything and potentially develop lots of bad habits and painstakingly correct them over time or B: Research and develop a baseline understanding of the various things you need to learn and practice out of the gate but trying learning everything or even knowing how much you need to learn can be overwhelming.

My ex wife hates PvP. Shes a keyboard turning spell clicker who waves her hands over the keyboard when attacked. If you ask her why she doesn’t PvP she’d say “I don’t know I just don’t like it.” Obviously the keyboard turning was part of the grounds for divorces

I used to PVP a ton and got Gladiator back in BC. After a long break from the game, I haven't ever been able to get back into it for very long for a few reasons: 1. Gearing up in PVP requires you to to be good enough to consistently beat people who outgear you. 2. Relearning what every class and comp is now capable of and how to counter it is an incredibly steep learning curve when you have to do it all at once. 3. I've regressed personally -- Even when I have the right plan, executing it isn't instinctive anymore. Relearning PVP to overcome 2 and 3 could be fun if 1 weren't such a huge barrier. Granted, I haven't done an arena since maybe S2 in Shadowlands, so maybe the gearing situation has improved. I haven't bothered finding out.

I’m outside in my phone and dam near jumped out my chair when his solo shuffle popped. Lmao that sound had me about to run inside… my computer isn’t even on 😆

500 specs and 5000000000 abilities to learn and counter. 50min queues... Outgeared, outplayed, and meeting the meta, yippi kaiyay!

Green and purple gear should scale to the same ilvl in instances. That's my opinion, I think its dumb that it doesn't.

I had like 40 keybinds+ at the beginning of Dragonflight expansion as an Arcane mage, and I didn't even have arena123 crap set up. I was absolutely using all that shit and doing well but it wore me out, and after a while it stopped being fun seemed like I was playing the piano to get the same results as other specs could playing the recorder. Needless to say I quit the game 4 months in. In part for that, and in part because of the insane solo shuffle Q times and the PIA it was to find arena partners to play with consistently.

After 18 years I still can’t remember which CC Spells are on the same dr. For me, they could make it like - once you’ve been ccd 3 times, you’re immune to cc for 30 sec. All spells on one dr!

Plunder storm was legit the most fun I had ( as a former pvp lover) Arena just is too frustrating, waiting 20 minutes for a queue drove me insane. needing to have an addon to scream wtf is going on sucks too. I was 2300 in wrath on chars, came back 10 years later and have not been able to break past 1700 before losing interest totally. IN plunderstorm i was able to learn all the abilities and figure out their synergies in a day or two. Arena play happens SO fucking fast i cant even see whats going on. UNless i have played the class... its too hard to track what people are doing. BGS are hit or miss, they are fun when teams are even and people dont give up immediately.

Healing is just not fun, unavoidable CC chains, constantly getting kicked, ramping dampening, going 3/6 in the solo shuffles and getting no points. Like every negative part of Arena is focused on making healers have less fun. Imagine if you were a dps and all the CC went into you, every kick went into you, and you started doing less damage as the match went on. To top it all off when you make a mistake your solo shuffle team rages at you and tells you that you're the worst healer they have ever seen.

Bring back spell count to how they were back in WOD / Legion and people will be happy

Every class having 2-3+ CCs/Micro CCs is a big problem. Arenas as a caster is very unenjoyable. You can get completely shut down, kicks don’t bother melee but all the CC in the game can affect a caster.

Because PVP is as fun as rubbing your face with a cheese grater then squeezing a lemon over it after sprinkling salt.

As 2400 disc priest, the healer making the biggest impact is only at low rating. At higher ratings you don't tend to see this big of a skill gap, where healers are just losing rounds without using buttons. Usually if I lose lobby it's like 2-4 even when the other healer is way better than me. I only really 0 and 6 if the other healer is way better than me, and I'm playing in a lobby with a huge disadvantage such as 4 casters vs a resto shaman on a big map. Healers usually only 0 and 6 in low ratings because they don't know how to trade their CDs correctly and the other healer does. Or they have really bad trinket usage. I don't think healers make as big of an impact in higher rated games because they tend to last into dampening, and once you have enough dampening it's really hard to do anything but just barely keep your team alive. You are also the only role whose over all impact is directly reduced by the length of the game. Higher rated healers usually know the "script" of the game and trade their CD's well enough that even if their play isn't optimal, no one just falls over dead. Meaning the games come down to mana more often. Which you can argue mana management and healing efficiency is part of the skill, which I agree, but that's a lot easier on some healers than others. Like pres evoker feels like it literally doesn't use mana. I think DPS have a wayyyy bigger impact (depending on spec) at higher ratings. A boomkin popping incarn with full DR available on enemy team for example is literally GG with enough dampening. Unless your DPS do something to control the moonkin or LOS dam. This is all specific to solo shuffle btw. In 3's with more coordination and less dampening I think healers have a much bigger impact. Which also makes the game weird to balance, because 3's and solo shuffle are so different.

Worst part about learning wow pvp solo is that you won't learn anything in game. You will just get farmed. You Have to read/watch stuff out of game. Also macros/addons being mandatory in pvp is a instant turnoff.

Before I even watch this video all the way through. I still think and always will think that WoW PvP has too high of a "perceived" barrier to entry for skill level compared to PvE content. you CAN be completely carried in PvE up until heroic and you dont actually need to get better, while you can be carried in PvP the actual good feeling you would get from lets say, killing a heroic end boss even if you got carried does not exist in PvP where even if you hit 2200 getting carried you did it getting to know the floor. Personal skill level is so much more important in PvP than it is below mythic raiding in PvE. as always, love your videos and viewpoints ven.

DPS = 4 dmg spells, 1 buff spell, 2 cc spells/1 slow 1 lose of control, 1 dmg mitigation spell, 1 utility spell, no self heal spell Healer = 2 dmg spells, 1 buff spell, 2 cc spells/ 1 slow 1 lose of control, 2 dmg mitigation sells, 1 utility spell, 4 heal spells (hots, big heal, efficient heal, instant heal, shield) depending on heal class naturally - druid, pres evo would have more hot spell than casted spells, and paladin reverse, for example remove all combat addons from game

I'm so happy you found Shields video! I watched this video a few days ago and subscribed to shields because he did such a great job and I had the thought that I hope Venruki sees the video and reacts to it. How cool for you to have found it. 😊

def true about healing , as a healer main, dps is just more fun to play in this kind of "shuffle" format .

My friends and I are usually 1400 in 3v3 arena. Our biggest struggle is complexity and lack of visual cues. So often we lose and have no idea why. Eventually I realized it is usually because we don't notice when an enemy uses an offensive CD and we don't respond until we're 1/3 HP. It is hard for us to notice moves like adrenaline rush or berserk or kingsbane. So we focus on M+ where it's so much more obvious what killed us.

too many defensives for certain classes like mage/rogue.. too many micro cc/stuns.. too much self heal for dps (why are rogues/mages able to heal?) makes no sense.. too much addons required to play/track certain spells. and worst of all too many toxic/elitist players.... as far a choosing your stats on gear i think it should be like game-wide.... gear should have main stat/2nd stat instead of haste/verse for example. and the PLAYER chooses what their main/second stats are.. then they can switch specs and that new spec will have those main/second stats at the same levels so they dont have to farm more gear for different stats... play the class you want to play without having to farm new gear

PvEers use a lot of spells already and keybind almost everything. Still rotational spells differ somewhat (you never use sheep in pve, but cast it more than 10 times in every arena match), but I think that is fine. For me, pvp talents are a bit too much - they can be 3 new spells to keybind that are all important and take up priority on your bars and yet when you go back to PvE they just go grey and are never used. As a PvP and PvE player my 4 keybind, G keybind, and X keybind are all grey in m+, meaning I have to have more keybinds overall since some rare times I play with them all on.

Gear doesn’t belong in PvP. No gear no talents. All skill.

High barrier to entry is true if you consider that as a PvE player you gear for PvE first and that means you have to have 2 characters to not be behind in gearing and crafted pieces. THANKFULLY THATS FINALLY GONE IN THE NEXT XPAC

New World has a "pvp track" which is battle pass esque. Every time you hit a reward breakpoint you get to pick between random rewards (potions, gold, items, etc). It's neat imo.

It’s not the amount of spells, it’s the complexity of each spell and how confusing it is to understand how they all coordinate with each other

Cause I can't play the game in PvP. I get kicked, sheeped, stunned, enemies are running away. It's dumb. In PvE I press my buttons and they have an effect, always, and nobody stops me.

Something that would help a lot is the tooltip listing pvp changes when in war mode/pvp games. It's really stupid to have to hunt down wowhead articles to figure out an ability is nerfed by like 80% in pvp. The gameplay differences make sense but not explaining them in game leaves people confused and frustrated when the abilities they think should be powerful do nothing

When people ask for CC to just be removed in PvP, I don't think they know how awful that would be. It's just the micro CC's and all the AoE passive stuff being designed around M+. There are also a lot of PvE'ers that just don't use defensives. They try to zug, and get frustrated when they can't. Premades can be largely fixed by removing cross faction. Cross faction messing up the sync queuing random groups you see largely in Epic BGs.

As someone that hasnt touched pvp in years it is 100% the cc lock rotation that is way too intimidating. Hearing Pikaboo talk about his rogue opener makes me go "yeah, im not cut out for this" and prevents me from even trying.

the moment i start to actually need to "sweat" to win a game in arena is where i always stop to play pvp xD

Premades are a large part of it. They suck the fun out of a match. Secondly getting a second gear set is a huge pain.

I baited Bajheera in Legion in a BG once. Got him away from his 3 pocket healers and actually landed a kill. :D It's too bad I wasn't recording at that time, cause nobody believes me when I say it lol.

its not just PvErs, I'd say im a mega PVP head. Used to play at a 2500 MMR level back in wotlk, Cata and quit in MoP. coming back is a complete headache. back in the day all you needed was gladius to really enjoy the game but now I feel like im fighting my UI and macros, and 99% of the time I lose before I even begin. I simply dont have the energy to even begin.

I generally dislike PvP because I dislike dying, especially to a player who I know is gloating on some other computer. It's an ego-bruising thing and I despise it. That said, there was one brief time that I did enjoy it, but it was at low levels, below 30, on a resto druid paired with another resto druid and a fury warrior. We made a fantastic trio.

This video is gold!

The button boat is an ISSUE 100%. I have friends that I do M+ with that I want to queue PVP with but they're so scared to play. One friend plays a Warlock and he said he needs like 10 extra keybinds to do PVP because you never use those skills in PVE. For me, I have an MMO mouse (which I think my friends do to, but idk) I would PREFER to only have like 20-24 keybinds. Just 1-12 (on mmo mouse) and maybe shift modifiers, so 24 total. But if I'm playing my resto shaman, I need like 36 keybinds, which is just insane to me. The "MRR issue" isn't really much of an issue. If you make MRR account wide, the low MRR queue's would take an hour to get into game. There are ZERO new players to WoW, and not many new PVP'ers from PVE. Healing I think is pretty incentivized as it is, and I RARELY see a 0/6 healer lobby. I've already given my hot take on a 2v2 SS mode with only dps, or have a PVP template where your class can have new healing spells in a 3v3 SS. But most WoW players just flame the idea and disregard any form of change lol. Lastly, the gearing is fine as it is. It's WAY EASIER to get PVP gear, than PVE gear, so I'm not sure why this argument even exists. Sure greens suck, but at zero rating you're playing against other greens. I REALLY hate Legion PVP gearing, zero progression, zero point in PVP'ing except to get elite and quit.

The secondary stat allocation suggestion is how Guild Wars 2 does things, at least back when I played. You would socket gear with rune combinations to give yourself certain effects and stat boosts. Everyone had access to the same runes right from level 1, and the game scaled you up to max level so the playing field was even. It was a HUGE way to get me into GW2 PvP and I wouldn't have touched it if I had to grind out as much as veteran players to even start. I don't even like making alts for WoW because gearing is so annoying. I don't feel like I'm even playing my class until I've gotten like 5k Conquest on them and 20k gold worth of enchants. The entire progression path feels bad to experience, and that's a sign that it can safely be removed.

I loved when the gameplan was simple. For example frost mage vs warrior, frost mage wanted to keep distance and control the fight with lower damage while the warrior hit like a truck but had limited opportunities to close the gap. The focus was on outplaying the frost mage and getting in range which was much harder due to limited mobility. But now all melee have tons of mobility, damage, and defense. This forced changes that gave ranged high damage, mobility, and defensives. Its more unnecessarily overcomplicated now when the correct formula already existed in the early years of the game. Melee mobility and ranged damage needs to be stripped back in pvp (both need to lose some defensives and CC)

The last point is extremely relevant at lower levels when climbing the ladder and insanely frustrating. You don't XP it because you're not queing below 1800. The biggest key to getting out of the doldrums is win momentum (streaks of 4 wins or better). Going 0-6 or even 1-5 largely because of bad healer kills all momentum and progress. In other words, it's one step up, but then 2 steps. Add in the fact as a DPS you're waiting in Queue 20-30 min on Avg and sometimes even longer. The latter point is truly what makes it frustrating and borderline intolerable.

As a Scarab Lord -MGlad who has healed for a decade of Arenas + for 100,000+++ games its real......PvEers just don't get the rhythm of PvP. For all they master the strategy of programed Bosses...The give and take, CD timings, and watching a teammate for resets and Goes..just seems to bypass their understanding of the game. its a very weird thing, Fully knowing what end game Raiding requires at its highest levels.. but its Real.

Active combat spells: max 24 (two action bars)

i just find PvP to be very stressfull tbh. Slaying dragons is chill vibes.

As a CE mythic raider, the last time I was engaged with PvP was BfA. They added azerite traits (including BiS) unlockable through PvP (both arena and bg) and i really enjoyed the concept of getting "more powerful" in PvE by doing activities in PvP. I was doing some crazy amount of areans and bg to 1) obtain basic versions of azerite traits 2) get fancy visuals by pushing it even harder. Numbers speak them themselves, it was the first time probably from Cata when i played arena at around 2.4k rating.

Retail CC feels like the cooldowns are really short, whereas cataclysm has more breathing room in between chains I feel like. Could be tripping and factually wrong, but that's how it feels.

Bloat: While there could be some button pruning I think the bigger issue is how many interactions are backed into individual buttons. I always use vengeful retreat (VR) as an example, VR by default is a repositioning button that launches you backwards, you can use this to get away and kite, or flip your camera and use it to lunge towards a target, its a good button for its default function.. but then talents come in and now this button also potentially... a damage reduction, a cc immunity, a slow, a crit buff, a fury generator, and a % damage modifier... all wrapped into a single button.. and some of those functions contradict each other. If I use the button as a cc immunity / defensive I may lose out on the resource generation, damage increase, or I might not have it to reposition later. The same thing happens with your Thistle tea example, I might not need the energy but I'm pressing the button for the mastery or vice versa. These things are not always in harmony... hence bloat is not just about the number of buttons but how many interactions are packed into a given button. CC: I find the communities focus on "micro cc" often specifically around melee odd when I tend to find that its mostly wizards who have an excessive amount of macro cc. The worst offenders are specs like demo or any rogue where they're stacked with spammable and or long duration short cd cc while also having a bunch of micro cc options. There could also be some pruning for specs like havoc where it could probably stand to lose fear and not be that impacted by it... but I really think things like cyclone or the massive amount of cc demo has need to be looked at more. Gear: While the lost ark system is imo ideal I don't think blizz will go that route because wow players like getting gear too much. They also don't want the pvp gear to be too easily customizable while also being able to have competitive pve ilvls because then pve players feel forced to do it. I think the current system is mostly fine as is, especially with the changes they recently announced for sparks and sockets... the one big thing I think needs changing is that imo gearing should happen in non-rated pvp. Rated should be where you go to take all your hard ground gear and then put your skills to the test, there shouldn't be a forced power gap in a rated environment. My off the cuff idea was to make it so there's only the boe combatant gear which would replace the current honor gear, and then honor gear would become the new conq gear. The gear would still be at the very low honor gear pve ilvl, but you could upgrade the pve ilvl all the way up to where conq currently allows if you wanted. The important bit is the pvp ilvl would be the current conq equivalent (so if it was this season 528). They could make the current boe combatant ilvl the ilvl floor when you que up for rated the way they do with BGB where it scales you up to that ilvl if you're too low. This shrinks the ilvl gap a bit, lets people with no gold and no honor have a mildly more competitive starting ilvl, people who want to buy boe's have a little leg up to keep the economy going, and then lets people max out their pvp ilvl and do their initial learning in a low stakes environment before they work up the courage to start trying to push rated... all while keeping gear in the mix. Rewards: Yeah I'm with everyone on the battle pass thing, the one major change I think needs to happen is the time gating / fomo of pvp rewards. There's almost 20 years of mog and mounts that could be reasons for people to get into pvp that they just don't have access to for no real benefit to the game. Figure out how to maintain the effort required to get those things, make a battle pass version of putting in that effort.. but give people a path. I care more about gaining a healthy amount of activity in the pvp scene than a reward being gate kept to a couple thousand people who happened to be playing the game 10 years ago during a specific 6 month window... and those dudes who manage to get to 1796 should feel like all that effort earned them the specific reward they were after when they finally get that last win in regardless of if it happens a season later. Shuffle healers: The problem here is two things, one is like you mentioned the MMR "leeching", imo if the matchmaker decided it was a fair enough lobby to put those players in it it should be completely ignoring enemy mmr for the rating calculation. A 3-3 should result in no change assuming your mmr is leveled out with your cr. The other bit is with there inherently being less healers in existence they inherently have a smaller mmr pool which means their pool is more deflated than dps by default. There needs to be some kind of inflation in the healer mmr pool to bring it up to the level of DPS. Solo que: As time goes on I increasingly think they really need to just add solo / duo que options to the ladder. I think the benefits outweigh the cons. We thought shuffle would be a good way for people to meet people, for people to be able to prove their own ability outside of the ladder context, etc etc.. but because its a separate mode that many look down on and the way the format works making it difficult to see if you really click with someone I feel like its not doing a great job at either of those. Solo que into the ladder on the other hand could work just like skirmishes where you could just to que up again with a group or individual you happen to like. If you're 2 guys and you need a 3rd you can just send it instead of sitting in lfg.... if you're at 2200 mmr but your toons at 1500cr and you don't have teammates you can just press the button instead of being in the awkward position of not being able to get into a 2200cr group but the 1500cr groups you can get into won't be able to handle the 2k+ mmr games you're about to play. On top of that I think players just don't appreciate how many off meta comps would actually work if they gave it a chance, and ladder solo / duo que would give them the opportunity.

🎉1 you need to upgrade equipment for the season rating as it was in shadowlands, 2 you need more rewards for pvp, 3 you need to remove the default characteristics and allow you to customize your equipment as you want

As someone who mainly raids for CE/M+ title and pvps around the 2200-2400 range, my biggest complaint is the sparks. If you're in any competitive guild there is no way you're crafting either of your pvp items until maybe 4-5+ weeks in. This pretty much forces you to play a 2nd character of the same class, or it gimps your pve gear from the lack of crafted gear you'll have access to early on. I'm sure it's possible to play without the crafted pvp gear, but as a caster playing without precog would be incredibly annoying/unfun to do.

Everything he said about healers apply to me, as a

To me Cata has opened my eyes to a game where the rotations feel good in PvE unlike the older classic versions but the button bloat is low enough that I find myself enjoying PvP arena still. I dont know where that bloat cut off will be or if MoP / WoD will feel even better but it definitely feels close to a sweet spot right now from my personal pov

The LORE for battlegrounds was always in the spirit of fair play.. They are sport, for competitive evolution. Without war, everyone loses.

Where to begin...huge video. First let me say I truly believe Ven is the voice of the people and agree with him near 100% of the time. With that said a few points I'd love for ANYONE to read lol... 1) Button Bloat is absurd on some classes, especially compared to others. 2) Modifiers really need to go by the way side. They are fun mechanics for creating engaging PvE rotations, but when you can be stunned/feared/etc into making your big hitter a limp noodle in PvP, it's just aggravating. 3) Yes, the number of spells is concerning, but more concerning is that you need keybinds for focus targets or arena 1,2,3, etc, it becomes way worse. I have multiple characters with over 36 keybinds and macros on many of those keybinds. 4) again not taking a shot at Ven but having a blizcon champion with an honor level OVER 1350 and over a bazillion arena matches tell me that the beta is playable with no addons while playing against others with no addons is not reassuring lol. 5) The CC problem already has a solution put clone, sheep, and fear on a 15-second CD like evoker sleepwalk. Making it more punishing when you shank it into a fade and not possible to chain clone an entire team. You have to be more tactical about when to use it. 6) pre-mades in random BGs is lame. Just go play RBG. Also, the consumables are not fun they are trash, lol. Sidenote being obliterated by King Baj is a blast. 7) Faction restrictions are just ridiculous at this point. We've fought interstellar space demons together at this stage of the game. Surely, by now, there are cross Faction marriages and interfactional/interracial marriages, etc. Just get over it for crying out loud. 8) An account wide MMR would be difficult because I might want to learn a new class (like sub rogue hint hint wink wink) and I don't want to try learning at 2.1k MMR. Also, what about when I want to play with my son or my nephews who aren't that good at the game? Now they would be getting roflstomped at 2k+ when they struggle for 1800. 9) Gearing is fine atm, and a PvE player complaining about PvP gearing is Ludacris lol. It is way harder to gear for PvE than PvP. The one change that should be made is that PvE gear should be obliterated in rated PvP. Not just nerfed, but the entire slot should have a red slash through it if the slot has a PvE item in it. I have abandoned S4 because of lack of rewards (sets are repetead) & PvE kit being BiS in PvP. I'm tired of getting ready to gear a toon and checking arena ladder, and it's all PvE rings and legos for bis. 10) PvP rewards are terrible, especially the fake honor level system. We don't even need a "new battle pass system" just a parallel PvP oriented Traveler's Log/Trading Post. If you made it through my rant, I'm incredibly grateful for being heard...or read...or whatever lol.

I feel like I prog so slowly, theres so much class, spec and general information you constantly have to stay up to date with, then theres the important stuff like watching for enemy and teammate cds, cc, drs and often experience gaps.

The number of spells doesn't bother me personally. It is the feeling of having binds to focus targets 1,2,3. Tab or target 1,2,3 and have CC binds for targets 1,2,3. This inflates the button bloat to another level and has little to no use outside a singular mouseover cc/interrupt in PvE content.

It is important to understand 1. Blizzard mistakenly based the Combat design on the basis of PVE scenarios and conditioned the Class design, harming the class\spec identity and various features of the battle. 2. The next thing they moved on to is an attempt to make pvp a little more accessible thanks to classes that win simply through pressure and simple universal skills for this case, Ex-Demon hunter. Solo shuffle with high rate decreasing heal, which allows you to play some classes quite effectively simply based on PVE dps synergy. Therefore, the availability of PVP is growing, but at the same time the choice of the same classes with primitive but murderous gameplay is sharply increasing, which displace complex and diverse concepts of behavior in combat from meta. Therefore, they destroyed the shaman class, its concepts of support and totems, catering to the interests of non-understanding players aimed at extracting individual dps in the pve scenario.

They aren’t going to tell the real reason which is they have weak constitutions.

Rotationally spell kits should be very simple, the complexity in pvp should always come from utility spells. That's where the outplay and fun comes from. It's the same in every PvP focussed game.

i played shadowlands and legion and the thing that turned me off from PvP was learning all the specs. I played mostly mid to high mythic+ and as a new player the road to improvement was simple and direct. You read a class guide and a dungeon guide and you're mostly set. I've only logged on to 3 classes in WoW...total...but I could see how being a good PvPer requires knowledge of all the classes...i didn't have a good way to go about learning that and even though I'm a bit of a tryhard I"m not going to read a wiki on every spell in the game.

>>This could be in the seasonal battlepass>> The final tier could be an unarmored version of the Gladiator mount for the season, same color, just no armor, maybe even a few other changed aesthetics.

You said during this that top ranked players don't always like to sweat and that sometimes it's fun to smurf. I think the big barrier to entry for most PVE players is that they have to sweat for hundreds of hours to ever feel comfortable, in fact feeling comfortable against players like yourself or anyone else who has been doing it for 20 years may never happen. There is no easy fix and mastering something requires effort. I'm just trying to relate to you what they must feel like. It would be like you having to play at 100% against players 10x more knowledgeable than you every day. You might enjoy the challenge but it's definitely work and requires focus.

I only play WoW to PvP. Ive been playing since April of 2005. I havent stepped into a raid since LK. 90% of my playtime is bg's. Ive played tens of thousands of bgs. I prefer those over arena bc of the bigger team sizes and playing the bg objective. Arenas are ok, but its much more fun to stealth into the flagroom and burn down an EFC for a win in the last minute of the bg or ninja a node that turns the tide of the game. Thats what I enjoy.

Great videos! Love the idea of rewarding healers in solo shuffle. How about earning a healer transmog piece every 100 wins and a unique healer mount at 1,000 wins? This would encourage more healers to queue and play a lot of games!

Hey Ven, been a fan since you were competing in tournaments. Just a thought on that initial spell bloat topic. Final Fantasy 14 did something that I hated at first but am starting to see the benefits. They made PvP instance classes different than their PVP counterparts. Reduced spell count and specialized the ones you had for PVP specific scenarios. Absolutely love it now, would definitely help Blizz balance stuff as well without having to worry about its affects outside of arenas/bgs

A good healer is noticed later than a good dps, even though we all know that when we have a special healer we're winning. Guaranteed.

Yeah, it's silly how they haven't updated honor level rewards since literally 2018 when BFA came out

Nailed it "It feels a bit ridiculous to me that to be able to play PvP efficiently you need a large number of third-party addons and different weak auras "! I play pvp (main healer), but playing shuffle or arenas feels impossible. I basically live in Random Bgs "For The Horde", I don't mind the cc stuff unless we are facing a premade, then it can be a bit frustrating. Great video, thanks for discussing this topic!

I think CC in WoW PvP feels worse than in other games because it’s often guaranteed to land due to the tab-targeting system. For example, a Warlock’s Fear will hit as long as they have you targeted. In other games, CC abilities require skill shots, so players can avoid them with good movement, and the caster must aim accurately. This dynamic gives players more control and makes successful CC feel earned. In WoW, avoiding CC feels like all the responsibility is on you, making it frustrating and seemingly unfair. Additionally, tactics like hiding behind corners in WoW PvP feel tedious compared to the more dynamic and skill-based nature of CC in games like Overwatch, where abilities like Roadhog’s hook require precise aim.

button bloat is a thing. I think every class is different as far as if it feels too much or not. Playing DH you feel like you have everything you need and yet you don't have that many buttons.

There's a method as to why I play every class in the game. To learn and categorize spell effects and CC timing needed for each class and how to counter them.

My feral druid has around 35 buttons and none of them feel redundant. I think its fine tbh

GW2 was the most accessible system for PvP 'gearing'. You just chose a necklace with a set of stats you like and played. This is far simpler than choosing individual items/stats and also better than having 1 rigid stat profile like legion.

It makes sense to give a class a lot of cc if it does not have a lot of survivability, it only doesn’t make sense when you give a tanky class a lot of cc

my reason is simply that. its too complicated, and i don't enjoy being perma chain cc'd. that everything i intend to do is just stopped again and again and again. the combat doesnt even get a moment to breathe.

I dont like WoW PVP because I used to play DAOC and no pvp game will ever, in a million years, come anywhere close to that. There are mainly 2 things I dislike: 1 - CC, while its fairly short duration the diminishing returns and variety of CC is just too much. The durations in DAOC were much longer but once they broke you were immune for a minute. 2 - It is designed to "work" on all group sizes which it obviously doesnt which becomes blindingly obvious if you try to engage in both duels, arenas, BGs and open world. It works in 3s, barely.

Is double dps 2s going to work in war within or will it loose to heals dps again

I'm an average 2k rating player. I love jumping into Solo Shuffle on an Alt with no gear, losing to1800 rating players due to MMR system and being verbally trashed for 10 games until I have some conquest and proper MMR.

I must say in regards to the gearing system, the amount of people who queue to Random BG's or Solo Q in their PvE gear with 5% versatility is kinda wild. The different 30% vers makes is insane to your survivability. PvE gear in PvP gear makes you hate the game mode.

Personally, another nail in the coffin for me is how druids hard counter mages. They got rid of hard counters a decade ago yet mages can still not poly druids and you still need to pvp talent poly to prevent it from healing. It's a ridiculous concept. That's like DK's never being able to be feared, they are technically undead, why can they be feared? If druid poly immunity was more of a 'Lichborne' ability I feel that would be a much better design.

For this topic, I think a PVE player already know his class, so with that in mind, I think a start is make clear when anyclass has a important damage/heal buff up (burst) and when anyclass has a important defence buff up (wall). With this start, is going to be easier to understand whats going on, and the basics on what you are supose to do.

I also think a factor which many might not want to admit or wont realise without some self reflection/insight. Young people have never been less competitive ever than at this point in history. If you have to compete with others to earn it, a majority just opt out instantly.

I don't like PvP because it's too expensive. Last time I pvped I gently lifted up my razer Naga and gently put it back down and it was in a hundred pieces.

I think instead of adding more spells, augmenting our spells in various ways is the better option

Gearing needs to stop being Honor vs Conquest, remove the double currency and make one currency. If you win a match that would grant Conquest, just give more Honor. That way people who do top-tier rated battlegrounds or arena can gear up faster (2-3 times faster), but even casual PvP players can get the best gear in a reasonable amount of time. Also, they need to make it so ALL non-PvP gear is useless, so if you join in Mythic raid gear, you're way worse than someone in green base PvP gear. It's so simple I don't understand why Blizzard doesn't do that. It rewards casual and hardcore players. The hardcore players can gear out quickly and crush low geared players, but those low geared players won't get discouraged because they know they can eventually get to that gear level in a reasonable amount of time and be on equal footing. Going the route of gear templates is not appealing to me because when I devote my time, I don't want to be on equal footing as someone who JUST hit the maximum level, I want to easily crush them. There is no progress if there is no power increase. Rewards are useless to me, I don't care about pets, mounts, titles, cosmetics, etc. I want better gear to crush people with less gear. That is what is fun as you can see from WoW Remix: MoP.

A way to solve the honor gear being so bad, especially as the season goes on is just to have honor gear start to scale as the season goes on. Kind of like how the ilevel boost in the Blitz brawl or Solo Shuffle brawl in Slands did. As the season went on and seasons changed the ilevel scaling changed.

For the new players, I think the biggest issue is the LFG system. The player base is so egotistical that if you don't have a resume of arena experience, then people aren't going to want to play with you. Even if you're at the same experience as them, it won't matter with how inflated some of the seasons were in BFA and SL (you can't really gauge if this 2.4 player got it in a regular season, or one that's inflated and he's really a 2k player who got lucky so to speak). If you're 2k xp, people are actively looking for 2.2 players to play with. And god forbid you have a rough start, the group will just disband and you're back in the LFG. People also just want to que shuffle and the que times are so long there's no point to even play them. When it comes to CC, they need to realize how the game works (i.e when to press buttons, how to position/decrease the amount of damage and CC that gets to you) which is a long learning process for someone who's barely PVP'd.

the stupidest part about factions is we can't do queueable or world content with the other faction, but we can do all rated content with them????? so we are more restricted for casual content than rated content???? how does that make any sense????

I quit in MoP but we had this problem back then too people just didn't want to put the time into pvp anymore when blizz will just nerf things and change how spells work because of PVE. It's crazy that 20+ years later and bilz has still not just made pvp it's own thing with it's own spells. Even when people start to like pvp again because stuff feels great Bliz will go and nerf spells because someone ran a key to fast and that's OP so it hurts pvp players. Pvp in wow will only be great again if they stop having spells for both pve and pvp then fuking those spells up nerfing for pve.

With the exception of necessary tracking functions handled by addons, I think a lot of these "problems" aren't and are fundamental to the uniqueness and tradition of WoW PvP. I know most people these days want to change things instead of doing something else or new, however, my opinion is that if you don't like it, play a different game. There are so many other MMOs, that have less abilities, equalized stats, participation rewards, battlepasses, etc. I mean, MOBAs and BRs are entire GENRES of games that follow those principles. WoW doesn't need to be. Also, FFS you don't need a guaranteed and deterministic reward for participating in everything you do, in every type of activity, in every game. Y'all need a dopamine detox. "Go touch grass"

Because its the domain of the sweatiest sweat lords that ever sweated with even more mental and emotional dysfunction than regular wow players

Based on what the OG video was saying and your sub rogue story, I think baking thistle tea into Dance would be a good combo since it gets macro'd together anyway. How many of those combos do we have in the game?

i balance pvp with pve as pve takes me away from the toxicity.. its calm and relaxing sometimes...

Personally, I like PvP, I want to try PvP, but every time I queue or join a bg. It feels like the only reason I am PvPing is to get more PvP gear, which means I get to PvP, but die less. As a PvE'er. I want some kind of reward track that isn't just 1800 for Elite set and 2400 for mount. 2400 feels honestly unreachable for someone new to PvP in order to see the first "Reward" that you as a PvE'er might want. A more regular reward system or even a worthwhile amount of Gold to complete the weeklies would be nice. Short story: It feels like what you get out of PvP'ing, isn't worth the effort it takes to achieve for a new pvp player.