Download the source code for all my videos here: patreon.com/vercidium If you have any rendering or game dev questions, ask them here!
@utilizator5007 ай бұрын
Christ, could you have made the code any smaller? I don't know what 4k 60 inch monitor you have but this is bad on small screens.
@FortisConscius7 ай бұрын
Have you looked at Minetest, per chance? Do you have thoughts about it?
@_vicary7 ай бұрын
Is this technique used by any popular game engines and why?
@Greedy-Allay7 ай бұрын
I feel like they should stop inventing new hardware, and instead try to optimise games so they work with the "older" hardware if you know what i mean
@monicde45707 ай бұрын
Recently I learned about Vram for optimization. My game uses Unity and mixes 2D and 3D. So we have a lot of hand-paint texture, filling up my Vram. Starting to learn how Vram works. I found most tech is a comparison for disk size like jpg but when it sends GPU is still big(I know Crunch but it is just for fast decompression not reduced size). Found the only thing I could do was pack the channel and tell the artist to reduce texture count and separate scenes into small chunks to load. I want to know more about Vram's work and if there is any way non-destructive or lost too much texture quality to be optimized in modern GPU. Anything even not for unity is appreciated!
@ThislsYusuf7 ай бұрын
The greater skill here isn't code optimization, but rather how you break it down with tasty metaphors to make for easily digestible content. Kudos.
@Tuhar7 ай бұрын
I too, am now hungry for burgers.
@DriftJunkie7 ай бұрын
Just let this man cook
@ThislsYusuf7 ай бұрын
Haha, he's cooking fr@@DriftJunkie
@Nerthexx7 ай бұрын
Analogy an average american can understand, yes.
@reed65147 ай бұрын
I prefer strawberry flavored metaphors 🍓
@Necrotechian7 ай бұрын
123 optimization videos later: This game runs so smooth you can get 4k graphics with 120 frames a second on a potato clock even without the potatoes.
@uis2467 ай бұрын
Quake 666
@SethbotStar7 ай бұрын
I think the first arm cpu was so energy efficient that it ran on ambient electricity or something like that, maybe that could be an actual goal point of optimization, to have it run on that.
@RowbotMaster7 ай бұрын
@@SethbotStarrebuilds crysis to run on a single double A for a year
@elcalabozodelandroide27 ай бұрын
@@RowbotMasterand yet it remains un-portable for the switch bc nintendo.
@MichaelChin19947 ай бұрын
He's gonna get Doom working on an Ancient Roman sun dial
@ARTEMISXIX7 ай бұрын
Vercidium trying to explain game engine optimisation to an American: "So imagine a burger."
@emporioalnino46707 ай бұрын
They should make a version more at home for Aussies "Ok so imagine a parma.."
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
@@emporioalnino4670 I love a good parma
@violet_broregarde7 ай бұрын
@@emporioalnino4670 What's a parma, a chicken parmesan? That's standard bar food in Australia? I love that
@CanalDoPhillipeMEME7 ай бұрын
most healthy american breakfest be like
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
@@violet_broregarde a chicken parmigiana
@KilledByAPixel7 ай бұрын
This is why you can use double buffering, which is kind of like what you are doing but instead of for the framebuffer, you are doing it for the mesh. Normally GPU operations queue up in the buffer, they aren't meant to be completed by the end of the refresh. If you use a double buffered system, it allows everything to render without a stall, because when a stall would have occurred, it just shows the back buffer like normal.
@SirNightmareFuel7 ай бұрын
Thank you! so that's where I recognised this technique, it's like a Double Buffering👍❤ Its probably still worth it, but the trade off you have with this technique is with the increased memory usage, as you'd about double the memory needed for the area around the player, and it adds more complexity managing these separate sources of meshes.
@OMGclueless7 ай бұрын
@@SirNightmareFuel That's true but GPUs have massive amounts of very-fast memory these days in order to support the heavy texture bandwidth of AAA games. Doubling or even 10x'ing the memory used by the meshes is not a huge deal because they all refer to the same textures and the textures are the most memory-hungry part of rendering unless you go crazy with poly-count.
@1Maklak7 ай бұрын
It's even better with tripple buffering. One framebuffer is displayed on screen, one is being rendered to and the third one is ready to be displayed. When the part of hardware responsible for displaying is done with a display cycle (or VSync kicks in), it looks at the buffers and either displays the same one again or displays the ready buffer if it is newer. When the part that does the rendering is done, it marks it's buffer ready, then renders into whichever of the other buffers is not being displayed. This way the newest ready buffer is always displayed, rendering works continuously and there is no tearing, at least in theory.
@javaguru71417 ай бұрын
The real downside to this type of technique when used for the framebuffer is latency. I can't play games with triple buffering except on very high refresh-rate monitors because the latency causes me nausea (except with an uncapped internal/buffer refresh rate which doesn't seem to be commonly implemented sadly).
@sarkedev7 ай бұрын
Yup, screen buffer was my first thought too.
@stratos27 ай бұрын
I just binged all of your optimisation videos. The metaphors are awesome and easy to follow, the code and graphics are clean, the voiceover is easy to understand. This is what I wish school/university was like. Instant subscribe, you have earned a place among my favorite KZfaqrs. Thank you for your work.
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
Far out, thank you! I'm stoked you like them and hope they help!
@ArneChristianRosenfeldt7 ай бұрын
I can’t read the tiny font
@DaStuntChannel7 ай бұрын
school/university should teach you how to come up with these ideas by yourself
@nicosoftnt7 ай бұрын
@@DaStuntChannel Universities teach you 15 years old techniques in a field that is always 5 years ahead and counting.
@DaStuntChannel7 ай бұрын
@@nicosoftnt That as well
@joeroeinski11077 ай бұрын
Semaphores could also be ideal as fences can cause the CPU to stall waiting for GPU work to finish. Semaphores would allow for exclusive synchronization of GPU tasks ensuring the CPU is constantly writing commands and the GPU is constantly processing them. Great video nonetheless.
@oliverer37 ай бұрын
Love semaphores, very useful if a bit scary!
@Stoney3K7 ай бұрын
In real world implementations these are probably implemented as semaphores, because the transferring of data is being done in a background thread anyway. The busy-waiting done by a fence is probably done here for simplicity purposes because it makes the 'waiting' part easier to explain.
@joeroeinski11077 ай бұрын
@@Stoney3K Yes. Transfers don't just run as a background thread, but DMA transfers over PCIe can be done completely async to the rest of the system (and GPUs often have dedicated transfer queues to accommodate this, allowing for ultra-fast async transfer from the CPU). Nowadays you can just generate some data yourself on the GPU though in compute, eliminating the need to transfer entirely and keeping everything local to VRAM.
@Stoney3K7 ай бұрын
@@joeroeinski1107True if you consider transferring of things like textures and shaders from the CPU to the GPU. But most of the waiting is often caused by the game loading in or parsing new assets from disk, which make it noticeably slow because I/O is *much* slower than CPU/GPU/memory access. It's even more pronounced when the game is an online one and the assets have to be fetched from an offsite server.
@joeroeinski11077 ай бұрын
@@Stoney3K Absolutely, though with emerging technology such as DirectStorage this soon may not be an issue.
@stormsoendergaard30237 ай бұрын
This is standard behavior in all major game engine used in production for the last 10-15 years.
@diddlenfiddle73117 ай бұрын
I was thinking that might be the case because unless I'm missing something, which is likely, he's described async code
@bradbradford85767 ай бұрын
I wonder when someone working at Minecraft is going to find out. Split screen with my kids is ridiculous if anyone is crafting. It freezes every time
@gendalfgray78897 ай бұрын
UE already have that?
@greatbriton84257 ай бұрын
I'd be surprised if this was true.
@Unethical.Dodgson7 ай бұрын
@@greatbriton8425 Yeah it was definitely an exaggeration but he's right that it's not new.
@SatisfiedOnion7 ай бұрын
I love this man's food analogies as much as this guy loves his optimization. Amazing video, I'm so in love with the animations!
@duncathan_salt7 ай бұрын
It's worth noting that for some games, the additional input delay might be considered unacceptable. Most games it won't matter but in those rare cases it may be necessary to explore alternatives
@markdmckenna6 ай бұрын
I think this technique won't increase input delay. It effectively just leaves old geometry on screen until new geometry is available. At worst you'll get "pop ins" instead of stalls.
@X6066 ай бұрын
@@markdmckennait it does add input delay, think of it this way: now you're shipping a whole frame with this old mesh instead of the new one, that might take 16ms or so, but what if 5ms into those 16ms the transfer completes? now you still have to wait for the full frame to be drawn before we can include the new mesh in the next frame. Whereas if we just stalled for those 5ms we'd only have to wait 5+16 ms instead of 16+16ms
@markdmckenna6 ай бұрын
@@X606 Maybe a different definition of input delay here? IMO as long as we're providing "reasonably" up to date geometry for the user to interact with, there is no added input delay.
@Ghorda95 ай бұрын
@@markdmckenna instead you get more render latency.
@potato983218 күн бұрын
@@markdmckenna Yeah. Earlier thread wasn't making sense to me. Input processing is non-graphical, so dunno why delayed rendering would delay input processing unless you tied input processing to your draw() routine. Albeit which happens a lot in amateur games using generalized game engines, but I presume this topic is scoped to more advanced game programming techniques.
@goatmeal52417 ай бұрын
It really was worth buying this 16,000 fps monitor---this is the first video to really use it to its fullest, but boy is it glorious.
@waltonsimons127 ай бұрын
Waste of money. Nobody needs 16,000 fps. 12,000 is more than enough.
@AntiAntYT7 ай бұрын
the eye doesn't see more than 4,000 fps
@nukesrus26637 ай бұрын
@@waltonsimons12 Trust me dude, once you've experienced 16,000 fps, 12,000 feels like looking at a slideshow.
@aqua-bery7 ай бұрын
@@AntiAntYTthe eye sees up to 60fps. Everything above is still useful, because the world runs at ∞ FPS, so the closer your pc can be to that, the better it will ~feel~
@luviam00017 ай бұрын
@@aqua-bery Eyes can see much more than 60fps. The visual difference from 60fps to 120fps is quite noticeable as 120fps is just a lot smoother visually and your eyes can see that difference.
@Mint25pop7 ай бұрын
Videos like this are rare to find But It has to be my favorite type of video by far, making code run faster, better gaming experience, GPU goes vroom I love it!
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
Thank you, more videos to come!
@starplatinum33057 ай бұрын
Bro i need more optimization videos this is amazing af
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
Working on it! Thank you
@chickennuggetman25937 ай бұрын
@@VercidiumCan this work for terraria? If so, maybe a mod could be made for my dinky glorified potato with a screen..
@themourningwolf89267 ай бұрын
Uhm, the best person to ask is the dev, I recomment going to the subreddit and asking Redigit and his crew if this is something they have toyed with or even considered. I'm sure he would be stoked to see some new ideas!@@chickennuggetman2593
@Kw1h7 ай бұрын
This is a highly optimized dev tutorial. Jokes aside I think you have a true talent for game dev and teaching. Subscribed.
@KitsumiTheFox7 ай бұрын
This kind of sounds like double buffering, but for the geometry instead of the actual framebuffer. Very cool idea!
@Cara.3147 ай бұрын
It's know as Asynchronous Buffer Update/Upload, nothing new. The underlying concept of decoupling data transfer from rendering to avoid stalling the graphics pipeline is fundamental to graphics programming and has been a consideration as long as there have been programmable GPUs and sophisticated graphics APIs. it's been a feature of both directx and ogl for decades at this point.
@MadHau57 ай бұрын
That's exactly what I thought! Same basic principles as double buffering!
@bejoscha7 ай бұрын
I'm not coding games and stumbled here by chance, but this is a really, really well done description which can be appreciated by anyone with at least a bit of coding experience. Thanks.
@zivmbs7 ай бұрын
I really loved the video and the analogy. I think you should increase the size of the code and animations, because seeing them on mobile is kind of hard. Great video nonetheless!
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
Will do, thank you for the feedback and glad you liked the video!
@lucaspawprint18887 ай бұрын
The master chef has an infinite number of pans, but doesn't want to overwhelm his apprentices, so he keeps only the amount of pans necessary in the kitchen until a greater or lesser amount is needed.
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
Haha excellent analogy
@angeldude1016 ай бұрын
Well, maybe not _infinitely_ many pans. More like, only about 4 billion pans. And usually when the chef needs more, rather than just grabbing the amount needed, usually they'll just grab as many extra pans as they're already using. It wastes a bit more space in the kichen, but it saves on the amount of trips to fetch more pans a way that generally balances out well.
@Candywolf9497 ай бұрын
yooooo i love that not only did you make a cool game i enjoyed, but that you're sharing all the knowledge you learned from making it with everyone. Good luck dude! I hope you continue this, It's really interesting and I love it.
@Zizaco7 ай бұрын
"Explain double buffer like I'm five" Great video Vercidium!
@Nevict7 ай бұрын
I like how you're showing alternatives to the "just add more cores/memory" mentality.
@kyraxx7 ай бұрын
Won't these extra copy of the mesh consume more memory? I suspect this is a compromise. Here the mesh is extremely simple so it doesn't need much memory. On a more complex mesh this could require you to "just add memory".
@qvindicator7 ай бұрын
@@kyraxx The extra threads would require more cores to be more efficient as well. This solution is literally "just add more cores/memory", but it works.
@internet50767 ай бұрын
Just one more
@knoetsch135 ай бұрын
Now I'm hungry.
@el_primer_y_el_ultimo_caiman6 ай бұрын
not even 30 seconds in and it's already being broken down for the americans
@Wyrmver7 ай бұрын
the biggest thing this video taught me is optimization =/= fewer lines
@Kyrelel7 ай бұрын
*fewer
@Wyrmver7 ай бұрын
@@Kyrelel thanks
@nerdycatgamer5 ай бұрын
Usually the code with fewer lines is actually severely less optimized. Take a look at all the ""clean"" javascript code with a million abstractions and chained method calls. You have your fancy iterators when a simple for loop is literally 20x faster
@whitecrow20XX7 ай бұрын
Best programming analogy is always about food and cooking.
@cookietheory7 ай бұрын
My favorite series on youtube, thank you for doing it!
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
Too kind! Thank you
@Jmcgee11257 ай бұрын
Fantastic overview. Right to the point and thorough enough to show off everything without getting bogged down in the details.
@castlecodersltdАй бұрын
Thanks for this, I'm really enjoying watching your videos. When I come to optimizing I'll be circling back to make sure I've covered the things your have. All the best 🙂
@SylooxD7 ай бұрын
Great video and I am sure it will help me in the future 👍At the first moment I thought the sorting by swapping with the first element only works with 2 meshes but after thinking about it I realized it also works well with longer lists too if the transfer time is equal for every mesh. If not, then a circular array/ring buffer might be a better alternative to avoid rendering fast-to-transfer future meshes before slow-to-transfer past ones. That would cause the future mesh to render 2 frames while skipping the past one with your algorithm.
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
Excellent point you’re right, a ring buffer would be more appropriate here. Now you have me thinking: I should be removing the element and inserting it at the start, rather than swapping. You’re right, great pickup! I wrote a similar thing for a particle engine, which does skip over the slow-to-transfer ones to ensure the most up to date buffer is always being rendered (even if it means an entire frames worth of data is skipped), i.e. if the cpu runs faster than the GPU and is writing to 2 buffers each frame, every 2nd buffer will never make it to the screen
@stratos27 ай бұрын
@@VercidiumI would love to see a video where you take all the improvement ideas from the comments and try to apply them and see how they do.
@AlucardNoir7 ай бұрын
Isnt this just asyncronous compute?
@SigmaSixSoftware7 ай бұрын
This guy just added Promises to a game engine
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
Best comment hahaha
@dyllanmccreary6886 ай бұрын
something about this video made me super excited to watch, maybe the thumbnail/title.
@gavinmorton76827 ай бұрын
Hey small feedback: could you please zoom in when displaying code? Small screens cant see the logic you're trying to showcase (even if the exact text doesn't matter). Awesome video as always❤️
@iminumst78277 ай бұрын
I had a similar issue in my 2D game made in Game Maker Studio. When it tried to render some high resolution sprites I would get those stutters. However, I found a very useful command "texture_prefetch" which as you can guess loads a texture group into VRAM memory even if it's not being drawn yet. And "texture flush" clears a group from VRAM. By being manually proactive about texture loading, I not only removed all the stutter, but I also cut level loading time down to under half a second. I'm pretty sure all engines have asynchronous buffered data loading / rendering, but I think some developers don't utilize it to it's full extend and just try to render a bunch of unloaded data at once. Your explanation is very good, and I hope it reminds other devs to think more carefully about asset loading.
@Blademaster1627 ай бұрын
Great video, loved all the animations. Even as someone who isn't particularly experienced in coding I feel like I understood everything!
@tiredeyezonmeАй бұрын
the major props for making my brain understand things i wouldnt have fathomed even trying to understand before
@Seshua875 ай бұрын
When you order a burger and the chef accidently adds extra bacon ;)
@ImNotGam7 ай бұрын
Got it, I just need enough memory for 15 thousand meshes.
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
Hahaha noooo
@mz_eth7 ай бұрын
Love the analogies and especially the visuals, you have such a knack for presenting problems in an easy to understand light! Great vid :)
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
Thank you, that means a lot!
@budgetarms7 ай бұрын
That is not really seen as a real optimization, more like a technique that (as you said) has been done. It is really interesting to see your approach compared to approaches game studio's make. A GDC talk that is on a technical level really interesting is this one "Marvel's Spider-Man: A Technical Postmortem". I also want to ask a question about your previous video, you mention that indeed triangle strip is way faster than triangle list. The problem that I seem to face, is that there are no tools, as far as I know of that convert triangle list to triangle strip. This is not a problem when you make all other models yourself and create a script that does it for you. But how did you do it in your previous video?
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
Absolutely, technically this is a timing issue but since it affects game performance, it falls under the broader ‘optimisation’ category For complex models like characters, converting them into triangle strips isn’t easy. Modern renderers will use an index buffer to help, where the model is broken down into triangle strips of the same length (e.g. 3 triangles) and then a GL_PRIMITIVE_RESTART is set to tell the shader to start a new triangle strip every 3 triangles (for example) There will still be some vertices that hold the same data but any reduction in memory is a performance win
@budgetarms7 ай бұрын
@@Vercidium I wish DirectX had something like that. It's really interesting how other API's do specific things.
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
@@budgetarms looks like DirectX 10 has this feature, check out the ‘Generating Multiple Strips’ section learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/direct3d11/d3d10-graphics-programming-guide-primitive-topologies
@budgetarms7 ай бұрын
@@Vercidium Thanks, I am looking into it, just wondering do you have a discord server (or is something like that in the works)?
@budgetarms7 ай бұрын
@@Vercidium Just wondering, how do you do networking on your game, do you use an external OpenGL library for that or what?
@blocc_nova7467 ай бұрын
This man spent 4 years of his life fixing the little freezes you get every once in a while. Real dedication!
@Cara.3147 ай бұрын
he didnt though, most good engines already do this sort of thing. though it is up to devs to properly use the engines systems to take advantage. you could easily circumvent them. Also, this is only 1 possible cause of freezes. It's known as Asynchronous Buffer Updates/Uploads.
@jiegao35917 ай бұрын
There's actually an optimization mod for Minecraft that more or less does this where the renderer will keep using an older mesh until the new ones are ready. You did a nice job with the analogies!
@lancestryker7 ай бұрын
What's it called?
@nindew21Laughyourassoff7 ай бұрын
What is it called?
@McHorsesCreations7 ай бұрын
@@nindew21Laughyourassoffit’s either Sodium or Nvidium, there is also a mod Distant Horizons on the relevant topic
@bfg_pz22137 ай бұрын
This video has made me realize that I still don't understand coding at all
@ersia876 ай бұрын
I can't believe the closest analogy to a bottleneck was a burger. A *bottleneck*. But seriously, great video!!
@_nwL7 ай бұрын
Great video, I learned a lot! Small comment for future endeavors: watching this on mobile was difficult because I assume you optimized the text size for fullscreen desktop viewing. Other than that, I loved it!
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
I’ll increase the font size in the next video, thank you!
@WartimeFriction7 ай бұрын
I don't code yet but it is something that I find fascinating. I really enjoyed how you made this problem make sense even to me. Thanks for sharing
@r2d2vader7 ай бұрын
Very cool! Time to stop asking where my burger is every five minutes to increase my fps.
@codeChuckАй бұрын
The animations are hilarious :D Those little hands of a video card :)
@Cara.3147 ай бұрын
Long freezes in modern games can be attributed to a variety of factors, often relating to resource-intensive operations or inefficiencies in handling game assets and rendering. Here are some of the common causes: Asset Loading: When games load large assets (like textures, models, or sound files) from the disk into memory, it can cause a noticeable freeze, especially if the game is not using asynchronous loading techniques. Garbage Collection: In games developed with languages that have automatic memory management (like Java or C#), garbage collection can sometimes cause freezes or stutters. This happens when the garbage collector runs to free up memory, temporarily halting other processes. CPU/GPU Synchronization Issues: If the CPU is waiting for the GPU to finish rendering (a scenario known as a GPU bottleneck), or vice versa (CPU bottleneck), it can result in freezes. Efficient parallel processing and synchronization are crucial to avoid such stalls. (the one this video covers part of, and far from the only possible cause) Inefficient Resource Management: Poorly managed resources, such as repeatedly loading and unloading the same assets, can lead to performance issues and freezes. Complex Calculations or Scripts: Intensive computations, like complex AI calculations, physics simulations, or extensive world updates, can cause freezes if they are not efficiently managed or offloaded to separate threads. Network Latency or Hiccups: For multiplayer games, network issues can cause freezes or lag if the game's state is tightly coupled with the timely receipt of network packets. Driver or Hardware Issues: Sometimes, the problem may lie outside the game itself, such as outdated or buggy graphics drivers, or hardware that is overheating or malfunctioning.
@cakesteak6 ай бұрын
chatgpt has entered the chat
@kira.herself7 ай бұрын
this is what wgpu does behind the scenes, I love wgpu
@kira.herself7 ай бұрын
also I love your channel, content like yours is rare, unique and very informative, I learn a lot with every Video, optimizing things to the limit is addicting hehe
@miigon91177 ай бұрын
Why this works: modern GPU has a lot of bandwidth but with a high latency to transfer data from main memory to gpu.(a lot of car lanes but long way to drive). If we could have 0 latency then we wouldn't need this because any transfer would be finished very quickly (high likelihood of finishing transfer before being drawn). Instead of doing nothing and waiting for the transfer to complete, we effectively stack multiple extra transfers for future frames within the first transfer's wait time (we can do this because we have a lot of bandwidth. aka we are sending more trucks on different car lanes simultaneously instead of waiting for the first one to come back and then send it out again). This is a form of parallelism and this idea of "doing other things or doing more of the same thing while waiting for the first one to finish" is everywhere in both cpu and gpu programming and let's you make more efficient(full) use of your hardware.
@cooperlittlehales62684 ай бұрын
Feel like I've seen a couple of these coding youtube channels run by fellow Aussies. Makes me happy knowing we're doing our part for the world.
@ThatNiceDutchGuy4 ай бұрын
Wow, I really like that underlaying background simulation at 1:51 I'm trying building something similar myself using Openprocessing but this looks like some great end result! Thanks for the inspiration.
@inferno31977 ай бұрын
You lost me at burger
@cuboembaralhado82943 ай бұрын
He won me at burger
@soviut3037 ай бұрын
Really excellent explanation for an issue a lot of players, and even developers, incorrectly associate with optimization. Also, I noticed your mic is picking up a lot of room reverb. A cheap mic shroud behind the mic will help a lot. The poor man's shroud is a closet full of clothes with the mic partially inside. If you can't fix it at the mic, try a "de-room" or "de-reverb" plugin. Your visuals are fantastic, your audio can be just as good without much more effort.
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
I can't hear the reverb myself but I did notice an echo when standing next to a wall and recording. I recorded while standing in the center of my room instead, and I'll try a shroud too thank you for the recommendation :)
@soviut3037 ай бұрын
@@Vercidium Cool, glad I could help. I noticed you've got a demo video about raytraced audio. Maybe this is an opportunity to do a game engine video about it to test your audio setup.
@Gegarace5 ай бұрын
I really really really like this kind of contents, It's like an art. I wonder what it'd be like if there's a game engine that has all optimization techniques known today and implemented efficiently. I'd really love to try that game engine or it's reels.
@JATmatic4 ай бұрын
I once implemented in GL4.5 similiar thing, for the uploaded uniform constants (UBO). It used fences to avoid remapping/reallocating the GPU memory each time when possible. It allocated N slots for the blocks in a single UBO. For each slot index, a fence is used tell if CPU is allowed to reuse it yet. If no slot was ready, a new (bigger) UBO would be allocated. After a few initial frames, the UBO's capacity would stabilize.
@chrislister30097 ай бұрын
I really appreciate this format of video from you. Please keep up the good work:)
@sclexz7 ай бұрын
didn't realize you were sector's edge dev until the end!
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
Haha hey there! What gave it away?
@DasPuppy7 ай бұрын
I was hungry before watching this, now I know what I want but it's in the middle of the night and no place is open! :o
@zeyzer34057 ай бұрын
My god it's so hight quality. I subscribe immediately!
@ns2qhd5207 ай бұрын
Hey love the video man but the code font is a little small for a pc and almost microscopic for my phone. The animations and everything are also amazing but if you could enlarge the code it’d make the content more accessible.
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
Will do for the next video, thank you for the feedback!
@jan.melcher7 ай бұрын
Wouldn't there be a chance that each new mesh clogs up the transfer pipeline even more, so you would end up with drawing really old meshes at some point?
@JustfknBill4 ай бұрын
Bruv you are the single most valuable resource I have as an indie dev. My games will run buttery smooth because of you and those like you. I've had these stories in mind since i was a child and didn't have the tools or skills to do them right. But with people like you and tools like blender and unreal, I will bring some really fun stuff! For the love of gaming!
@Vercidium4 ай бұрын
Thanks so much! I’m glad to help
@JustfknBill4 ай бұрын
@@Vercidium When I grow my company and add to it, you're definitely hired if you want it. I'll respond in the future with a list of works & the studio name.
@duytdl6 ай бұрын
Very humble explanation style for laymen to understand. Kudos!
@silicalnz7 ай бұрын
Just a note. The code you show is a very tiny font size. It was difficult for me to read.
@akhileshchandorkar18077 ай бұрын
This is an epic video man, really liked the way you showcased your iterative design methodology to refine the problem into smaller chunks and solved them one at a time.
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
Thank you, I’m not a teacher by any means but I’m learning so much creating these videos. Trying to find the best way to explain these things takes a while and I always resort back to food analogies haha
@akhileshchandorkar18077 ай бұрын
@@VercidiumHonestly, its still really cool that you're able to make parallels with these kinds of arguments. Oftentimes, when I'm trying to explain my code using analogies, they end up just becoming warped, and all of a sudden you have a taxi driver talking about repairing a plane or something :/
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
@@akhileshchandorkar1807 hahaha I know what you mean. I originally was talking about a restaurant with tables, plus a waiter and a chef, but it all got too complex. Simplifying it down to a chef and their pans worked much better. Takes a lot of iteration and feedback before I’m happy posting it here
@markonfilms6 ай бұрын
This is awesome! Managing stuff like this is still a real challenge and this is a great solution. Thank you for the great easy to understand explanation too!
@ChamplooMusashi7 ай бұрын
Should you really be using a list? Wouldn't a pool be much preferable if we're considering optimization?
@SimonBuchanNz7 ай бұрын
A pool is a list though? (Not all lists are linked lists: this looks like C# where List is a dynamic array (like std::vector, ArrayList, Vec, etc)
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
For a tiny amount of items a list is fine, but if we had a global list of all meshes in the scene then 100% should not use a list. A ring buffer that uses an array under the hood would be much better
@aljazbrilj16987 ай бұрын
Very good, thank you for informing the community
@lopodyrАй бұрын
Lots of people seem to be mad at the fact that these optimizations are not groundbreaking and already exist in some engines. But as a game designer making solo projects on several engines, I'm super thankful for the amazing explanations of processes I would otherwise be unaware of. I love to see how the technologies we used are built from thousands of smart decisions like these. Also, good job and good luck on your engine project :D
@VercidiumАй бұрын
@@lopodyr thank you for the kind words, I’m glad this video has helped!
@VicJang7 ай бұрын
The first part also explains why some fast food drive thru allocate an employee taking orders instead of letting customers order at the fixed kiosk.
@filiformis7 ай бұрын
Reminds me of a swap chain, only for geometry instead of fully rendered frames. Very cool!
@noxagonal7 ай бұрын
Honestly, that's the future of everything nowadays, almost everything needs to be pipelined, the problem is that the more you pipeline, the more (relative) lag it introduces. Personally I settled for 2 mesh buffers for dynamic meshes, block frame if we catch up and the mesh isn't fully sent yet, though I might change this to non-blocking later. I'm also thinking which mesh data actually needs to be updated anyways. UVs might not need to be re-uploaded to the GPU, it's mostly just the coordinates and vertex normals. So I'm thinking of splitting the vertex into 2 buffers, one for coordinates and normals, and the rest into another struct. This way the transfer size should be smaller and shouldn't cause many issues. This saves space on the VRAM, allows custom attributes. Cache misses are very likely to happen though so it needs to be measured... Lots of options to explore. :)
@nguyenhoangminhtrung27797 ай бұрын
My guy explains double buffer so my 5 year-olds can actually understand it, kudos to you!
@Some-q17 ай бұрын
as I 5 year old I can confirm
@DuniC07 ай бұрын
This is the first time I hear the recommendation of using a list instead of an array for a performance boost! I imagine that the list is actually an dynamic array under the hood. The performance boost of caching contiguous data in memory is just way over the benefit you can get from delegating freeing some memory of a linked list to the garbage collector.
@starkindler1134Ай бұрын
Man, I was watching through this and I looked at your name and was like "Huh, his name reminds me of the developer of Sector's Edge." Then a moment later: "Wait... that is really similar..." And then I checked and you actually were the dev for Sector's edge lol. Cool! Man I miss that game, it was my favourite fps! I can't wait for your next project!
@VercidiumАй бұрын
Thank you! I miss it too, hoping to revisit it again some day
@NoName-13377 ай бұрын
From now on, my toaster can run crysis.
@CaptainUltimaFTW7 ай бұрын
Stuff like this is why i love graphics engineering, the interwoven understanding of what the hardware does and how you can get it to do what you want it to in the most efficient manner is just fun. Cool stuff!
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
Absolutely, it is a very rewarding kind of programming
@mrrenreal5 ай бұрын
I’m addicted to your channel! \o/
@dragon4113207 ай бұрын
"a flashing red light, changes to green when your burger is ready" ... WHAT?!? i feel like Doc from BTTF "what year is it?"
@shadow500116 ай бұрын
Explaining optimization to an American: "So Imagine a burger..."
@toxiccan1757 ай бұрын
I’m curious: do you ever look at Minecraft optimization mods to get ideas of how to make your own voxel game engine better? People have tried many methods and there’s a lot of source code out there
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
I haven’t but that’s a good idea, would be interesting to have a look through their source code to see what OpenGL tricks they’re using
@toxiccan1757 ай бұрын
@@Vercidium Check out Sodium and related projects. They rewrote rendering in Minecraft to work with OpenGL and made it really efficient. There are related projects and extension type mods that are easy to find as well.
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
@@toxiccan175 awesome thank you, will do!
@jcm26067 ай бұрын
@@toxiccan175 Minecraft has used OpenGL since the beginning, Sodium and the like just rewrote core parts of the renderer to use newer OpenGL features and be generally more efficient with memory and GPU usage.
@tinoesroho7 ай бұрын
@@jcm2606 i've heard mumbles about the sodium sub-mod, nvidium. what's up with that?
@bowriing6 ай бұрын
I hope more game devs from indie to AAA take into account stuttering more, people seem to only be phased by FPS and are completely uneducated regarding frametime and how a consistent frametime is more important than FPS the majority of the time.
@hardtofinduniquename6 ай бұрын
This specific technique is for when you're **dynamically building a mesh** to represent a voxel world. At first, I misunderstood and thought each block in the world was a separate mesh and the solution didn't make much sense. The title and Intro examples makes it seem applicable to all games. If you're making a game without generated meshes, this specific fencing technique won't be very useful. However, double buffering is generally useful in many scenarios.
@fuzzy-027 ай бұрын
Would sorting still be viable if the number of meshes is very big? Also, I loved this video. I never even realized this. Or rather, I knew of it but never was consciously aware of it while coding
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
For heaps of meshes it would get pretty slow, something like a ring buffer would be much better. Thank you!
@Lopeirada7 ай бұрын
Does this apply to game engine devs, or also to game devs that use game engines like unreal or unity?
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
Game engine devs 100%. Game engines should take care of this but I’ve heard of some devs talking about stuttering because their models weren’t preloaded/off-screen-rendered (not sure if these terms are right) before they tried rendering them onto the screen
@dmc56307 ай бұрын
Changing the thumbnail in the name of optimisation on a video about optimisation is pure optimisation #ISawTheBurger
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
Haha yep I design a few and then test one each day. I think this thumbnail+title is the one though
@NathanButh7 ай бұрын
Wasn't expecting to get burgered here
@glorytoarstotzka3307 ай бұрын
at the end the performance was 15k fps, what was the performance of the mesh rendering without any optimizations at the very start, how many fps?
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
About 115, its shown at 0:09
@doruvidejesus45087 ай бұрын
Wow this is incredible, those this also work in Unreal Engine 5?
@Vercidium7 ай бұрын
It should, I was talking to a Unity dev about how models are loaded behind the scenes onto the GPU, and it seems like there’s a few tricks you can do with offscreen rendering and preloading (not sure these terms are right) so you can know when a model is actually sent to the GPU, before you try to render it If Unity has these features I’d be surprised if Unreal didn’t! It’s a pretty important feature I reckon
@TheKnowlesspot7 ай бұрын
the anecdote between burgers/restaurant pagers and rendering is hilarious and useful
@ailaG6 ай бұрын
I''m kind of stunned that in the impressive history of modern gaming this hasn't been done before. Kudos for finding that out where others didn't.
@SuprSBG6 ай бұрын
0:02 I have 2K+ hours in NMS and never (on my computer which has over minimum spec) had a freeze like that.
@janmagtoast7 ай бұрын
Fun fact: Having a taste of this source code is cheaper than having a taste of an actual burger (at least where I live)
@suza31997 ай бұрын
This is genuinely interesting. I love it. Keep it up!
@user-pl7oz1jr2q5 ай бұрын
Amazing video, one tip: The code font size is a tad too small for phone screens. I think 10-20% larger would fix it.
@Vercidium5 ай бұрын
Will do thank you!
@Sebosek.7 ай бұрын
Bro spend 6 years to create a Game Engine just to told us, What a hero!
@Dumb_Daft_Dim_Lafoole7 ай бұрын
youtuber with 30k subs vs multimillion game companies
@qriist18507 ай бұрын
We finally know how to sell more burgers. Stonetoss would be so proud.
@crzykd13057 ай бұрын
In my current engine project I've made an upload manager who reuses a set of staging buffers to upload data to the GPU at a capped rate (wouldn't want to choke out the bandwidth), it uses a counter fence to keep track of the latest job completed. When work is submitted to it, the submit function returns a job number and the dependent objects can check with the uploader if the work is finished (via the fence under the hood). Then, the majority of objects used in rendering hold their data in a variety of buffer types (swapped out as needed) with the more common being the swap buffer, which the uploader knows how to handle right away. I've been considering making a swap chain buffer which allows multiple jobs to be queued at once instead of just the 2, I think I'd need to make another system for recycling buffers when their done. I might also want to expand it for texture streaming solutions wherein they could produce work for both uploading and consolidating buffers, but that might be a waste of space if too many jobs are incomplete at once. I love stuff, its a wonderful puzzle, and entirely why I entered graphics programming and game engine development!