Very Unfair Smash and Fighting Game Characters (w/

Рет қаралды 34,771

3 ай бұрын

#fightinggames #smashbros
‪@MrMockRock‬ and I share a couple of examples of very unfair characters with each other from Smash and traditional fighting games!
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Пікірлер: 146

@LordKnightfgc 3 ай бұрын

Sorry for the lack of uploads btw, went from the invitational straight to Evo Japan 😭 Hopefully will have some HxH and 2xko stuff for y'all though. (also pls subscribe)

@nota_2526 3 ай бұрын

HxH content gunna be crazy

@nota_2526 3 ай бұрын

Nvm we good

@noino1 2 ай бұрын

excited to see your thoughts on nen impact

@crppledizzle9374 2 ай бұрын

nen impact boutta be generational 😭🙏

@MrMockRock 3 ай бұрын

Thanks for taking the time out of your insane schedule to talk about broken stuff man, this was a ton of fun to do and I learned a lot!

@dafrigg47 3 ай бұрын

I left smash but I still watch and love you mockrock ❤ thank you for making great content on your channels

@LordKnightfgc 3 ай бұрын

My goat merci

@ZacTheCrippleFTW 3 ай бұрын

question: you ever thought about making a effort to like, play traditional fighters more? (not fully transition obviously) Because you said at the end of this you enjoy match ups and the mental problem solving that comes with them. Traditional fighters are all about that especially in the early learning phases. I used to watch your content btw I transitioned out of the smash games to Guilty Gear. You have the best intro title card in the biz, big ups man

@MrMockRock 3 ай бұрын

@@ZacTheCrippleFTW Yes, many times haha. I've dabbled in a bunch of them and would love to play more, but KZfaq is already a 7-days-a-week job and freeing up time for _anything_ can be a stretch as is, let alone for another grind-heavy video game. Down the road though, who knows. Appreciate it!

@elijahoneill5228 2 ай бұрын

Funny because GT is broken right now in the game for different reasons

@arachnofiend2859 3 ай бұрын

Dude you can't lead off with Kokonoe on a guy that's never played an anime fighter you are traumatizing him

@pmahcgop6693 2 ай бұрын

As someone who’s also not played any anime fighters I think there’s a vague idea that the power ceiling is higher but the “and there’s another thing broken about her” is ridiculous, how does an unblockable super that you can get 60% damage with that some characters can’t escape. How did that even get past testing and on a character that already does everything so she’s not relying on it every game I’m curious now what other horrors have been created in anime fighters if she’s just the first example of a broken character.

@arachnofiend2859 2 ай бұрын

@@pmahcgop6693 Kokonoe is pretty cream of the crop in terms of "how did this even get through testing" broken characters. Everything that LK describes in the first half is fairly normal for an anime fighter, though having all of it on the same character is pretty questionable. The unblockable super is beyond the pale by any standard.

@Dilly-ht2vw 2 ай бұрын

@pmahcgop6693 oh the unblockable is busted lol unblockable strikes/projectiles are busted af even in anime fighters. The closest I've personally experienced is specials that do insane amounts of chip but nothing like 70% lol

@CantHandleThis6 Ай бұрын

@@Dilly-ht2vw unblockables are pretty cool when done right. Labrys for example from Persona 4 Arena ultimax all her B normals are unblockable if charged. Despite this the charge time is long so that its easy to escape. The mind game comes in lf if shes going to full charge or half charge the normal. If you try to escape and its only a half charge you might get counter hit and blown up (Shes does incredible damage due to a level up system and can TOD at max level although getting to max level is a challenge as it requires you to snowball hard). If you block a half charge move she can dash cancel and be plus in your grill, if you mash you can interrupt her charge so theres that but theres then the chance of getting clipped. And if she fully charges you get hit with an unblockable. I dont see her unblockable much but its actually more interesting whenever she DP's as she can charge that too. It has guard point so you can react to the dp with your own although i believe she can still hit your recovery if she charges it (gives her an ok combo on half charge counter hit especially in higher axe levels). If you decide to block she can do a full charge unblockable and punish you for sitting there. The easiest answer ive seen is to just run out of its range and punish her recovery (or jump behind her). Her reversal super is also unblockable but is considered terrible but its funny to land.

@rodo2220 3 ай бұрын

Pre-patch smash 4 diddy. Forgot about that bastard

@sometimesRay 3 ай бұрын

17:45 Fun fact: Azrael can armor through the black hole and become immune to it in CF. If that isn't just the most lore accurate thing about Azrael you've heard then I don't know what is.

@Za_Phantom 3 ай бұрын

this is a crossover i never woulda expected. time to relive broken smash characters again.

@TheWordPlay 2 ай бұрын

Coming from competitive Smash before transitioning to traditional fighting games for a while now, it's oddly nostalgic to hear stuff like hoo hah and early meta Pichu

@mikereed4594 2 ай бұрын

Didn't know this guy before the video, but the collab here is a great idea; Smash is close enough to conventional fighting games that he understands the concepts you're talking about, but also enough of its own space that he hasn't seen any of the nonsense you're showing him before. Makes it very entertaining when he's seeing stuff like GT Goku for the first time.

@A.Cobalt 15 күн бұрын

@@mikereed4594 Absolutely. Mockrock is exclusively a Smash content creator, but in his videos he very clearly demonstrates that he has very good knowledge of game design, and he’s honestly worth watching for his informative personality alone, while also being very entertaining in his own right.

@ninfrosty2093 15 күн бұрын

It's crazy that over the years this hasn't existed. But videos of fighting game players and smashers sharing love of their games, analysis of their games, sounds so cool to me.

@notasquiremario3299 3 ай бұрын

OH SHIT LORDKNIGHT AND MOCKROCK COLLAB!LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

@glacierwolf2155 3 ай бұрын

If I remember correctly, Kokonoe was so hated that she gained the nickname of "Brokenoe" and Blazblue players blocked Kokonoe players' PSN accounts.

@DoggyP00 3 ай бұрын

people do that to mid tiers these days. It might have been novel at the time, but it doesn't sound like much by modern standards

@coreydopson2030 2 ай бұрын

I mean. People called her brokonoe for like a month because it was new and funny but that shit died faster than "Hype dog". People in BB avoid anyone they think theyll lose to online. It wasnt exclusively a koko thing. Pink squares matter to some people more than breathing air or eating food

@coreydopson2030 2 ай бұрын

At least in my experience she wasnt even that popular online. CP1.0 online was 75% Bullet players when she was a near unplayable booty character

@kode-man23 2 ай бұрын

For 45 minutes I thought that I was clever.

@nozushii 2 ай бұрын

That's such a perfect name lmao

@the_bookworm8281 3 ай бұрын

To elaborate further on Pichu; Pichu's dominance early on in Smash Ultimate was primarily a byproduct of us learning a new Smash game, where the collective playerbase didn't have a great idea on how Ultimate should be played and how optimized characters can be. Just as MockRock says: pre-nerfed Pichu absolutely will have a much harder time competing with current meta of Ultimate. As players get better at each character, Pichu got progressively worse and worse as now the vast majority of characters can now do what Pichu can do but without the extreme downsides. Pichu got picked up very easily early on cause its strengths was so front-and-center, but it also meant that the character got all of its optimization blown out early off the gate. Also, the character's pre-nerfed state was only during the first 4-5 months of the game (before Hero came out), and the tier list back then was very different to today. For example, Pichu was strong during the time period where we thought Ike, a character seen as low tier today, was considered to be a very strong character, and Mr. Game & Watch, a top 5 character today and one of Pichu's harder matchups, was considered low tier despite receiving no real changes from patches. Even prior to the nerfs, the character's results began to slip downwards and VoiD was already expressing concerns on continuing to main the character due to how stressful it is to play it. Another example of this is Inkling; a character that was considered top tier when the game came out and for the first year of the game's life, only to gradually fall down the tier list to the mid tiers despite receiving essentially no real nerfs and even getting buffed later in the game's life. We in the Smash community oftentimes have some very bizarre opinions on characters when the game first came out. MockRock brought out the time period where people thought SSB4 Bowser was top tier (due note that this was before he was given the grab confirms), but that time period also had characters like Robin, Bowser Jr., and Duck Hunt in the high tiers, and I have seen a tier list back then where Little Mac was considered top tier.

@yusifudo46 3 ай бұрын

Little Mac in the early 3DS days was way stronger than he was in the Wii U version. He was nerfed several times before the Wii U version released

@the_bookworm8281 3 ай бұрын

@@yusifudo46 Mac only received one notable nerf before Wii U (the rest are very minor nerfs), which is the side B distance nerf. While this nerf hurts, Mac was still fundamentally the same character, and he was definitely not a strong character at all. His early 3DS perception is purely him being new. Once we learned how to beat him, he dropped off a cliff.

@monchete9934 2 ай бұрын

@@the_bookworm8281 Yeah, I've seen people say on the 3DS times that he was broken. Thing is, if you tried to contest him on the ground, more often than not, he'd beat you because he had some of the best ground speed, very fast normals, armor and the like, so you'd have that perception. Also, early on in Smash, people barely edgeguard.

@TopOfAllWorlds 2 ай бұрын

I feel like pre-patch pichu would still be top 15 or higher

@reilly5005 2 ай бұрын

I wanna see how MockRock would react to literally any Skullgirls character

@Dilly-ht2vw 2 ай бұрын

I find it funny how some people react to anime fighters lol. It's impossible to convince them it's actually chiller than something like SF lol. Maybe it's not and I'm just weird lol

@mojito8948 2 ай бұрын

@@Dilly-ht2vwYes BB is clearly not chiller than SF or Tekken. That doesn't mean that it's a worse game tho

@NinjaBananaChannel 3 ай бұрын

The crossover i KNEW i NEEDED

@_Deez 3 ай бұрын

NAH BRUH I WAS NOT EXPECTING THIS COLLAB. LK always got the best guests on.

@night_ts 3 ай бұрын

As someone whose sunk way too much time into smash and loves mockrock, and very recently (like a month ago) got into ggst and started watching you as my main source of content on the game and just traditional fighters as a whole, this was such a damn treat. Would love to see more like this

@jordandaniels1381 2 ай бұрын

This is awesome, talking to a smash player and showing him why certain characters are broken in other fighting games was fun to watch. I felt the same.

@horribleoscar9443 3 ай бұрын

I know almost nothing about Smash competitive and I really enjoyed this conversation. Thanks for making it happen!

@evilded2 3 ай бұрын

Honestly this could be like an hour longer, hyped for part two?

@eth102 2 ай бұрын

"This game sucks bro, what integrity bro" had me fucking dying.

@natyinc9611 2 ай бұрын

Fantastic video! Editing was crisp, hosts were on point, and it was very informative. I liked how you tailored your character explanations in a way that would make sense to someone who played smash instead of a traditional fgc nerd (e.g. instead off Gt-Goku lvl 3 "four way mix-ups" you said "forcing your opponent to block for a while"). I personally got a little confused with your explanation for Kokonoe at 9:35 onwards "she has more flexibility with the way she uses her normals" which sounded like reverse gattlings, but looking up Dustloop it seems to be way more complex than that, so it was probably a good idea to omit that Gravitron tangent and stick with magnetism / neutral control. Very well written on your part LK, though your co-host did a fantastic job as well. Keep up the good work! These collabs are always a blast to watch (do more with Sajam pls :3 )

@ValianceGames 3 ай бұрын

Whoa this crossover is incredible!!! Great vid

@LinkThinks 3 ай бұрын

Yoooo! This is so hype, I'm a huge fan of MockRock's content. Thanks for putting this together LK! You've been on the grind lately, keep up the great work!

@myboy_ 3 ай бұрын

Wow what an amazing crossover, never knew I needed this video

@Ras_2k 3 ай бұрын

i really liked that. the characters you guys broke out were so crazy and such good examples

@neutralmanatee1558 3 ай бұрын

Always great to see some solidarity between traditional and platform fighters

@TVs_Brent 2 ай бұрын

hell yeah, a return to one of my fave fighting game discussion series

@nozushii 2 ай бұрын

Another banger video LK, I love these types of videos just talking about characters and balance.

@noah-ux2cz 2 ай бұрын

Love bringing on MockRock because he’s such an analytical and articulate guy but he’s still able to bring great energy to the discussion. Awesome seeing him on the channel

@PotofGlue 2 ай бұрын

The collab I never thought would happen and never knew I needed

@kode-man23 2 ай бұрын

Awesome stuff. I’m getting more into fighting games lately, so I was a little disappointed that so much of what made LKs picks broken, kind of went over my head. But it was nice to relive some Smash picks that were pre-final meta.

@user-fe2ne7qx9z 3 ай бұрын

Imagine having unfair characters. Couldn't be Melee. Chaingrabbing? Honest. Falco Laser? Valid.

@Caleb-zl4wk 2 ай бұрын

Seems competitively playable to me.

@NightGhost-qs6yw 2 ай бұрын

@@Caleb-zl4wk hmm i don't know. doesn't seem like a game that would last past the next release.

@SkyGenz 2 ай бұрын

You should have Coney for a collab video like this

@SujakuuClips 3 ай бұрын

This was actually a nice trip down memory lane considering I started with Smash since 64. A lot of MrMockRock's broken character examples I was there for as well.

@FrizzlenillCAN 3 ай бұрын

The crossover I never knew I needed

@yoyoguy1st 2 ай бұрын

I’ve nearly recovered from the mental damage of smash 4 diddy, I don’t need these memories coming back

@pumkinswift8263 2 ай бұрын

I've been waiting for a video like this! Mock Rock is a great canidate for this!

@Iguessimhere154 3 ай бұрын

I've been waiting for a smash collab and my wish has been granted 👏

@Sunray625 3 ай бұрын

I WANTED TO SEE THIS FOR A WHILE

@lagspike7763 3 ай бұрын

Hold up this is gas

@mcgoldenblade4765 3 ай бұрын

I've been waiting for this.

@CarbonMalite 2 ай бұрын

If they only nerfed ftilt, Pichu would have been such a fun character to play. Current Pichu in a game where people are already getting 50% in fewer interactions and killing soon after is just poor meta synergy. Even Pikachu has fallen off in the modern meta without doing 20% to itself and having more consistent strategies.

@justice8718 2 ай бұрын

Don’t we have characters with stronger and better tilts than pre-nerfed f-tilt?

@CarbonMalite 2 ай бұрын

@@justice8718 in the grand scheme it's probably fine but 2-frames are a bad mechanic and I thinkwe should have less of them

@justice8718 2 ай бұрын

@@CarbonMalite Inkling should’ve gotten a stronger down-tilt, up-tilt, fair, bair, and down-smash. And a bigger nair.

@ubermaster1 2 ай бұрын

Unexpected but beloved collab

@Il_Dilettante 2 ай бұрын

diddy uair was also the fastest uair in the game for what it's worth at a 3 frame startup (so hitbox comes out on frame 4)

@GameMasterWLC 2 ай бұрын

I was waiting to hear about Ultimate ROB or Brawl Olimar lol

@TheAnimator54 3 ай бұрын

Hope you have fun at Evo!

@joshford256 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for finding smash footage where mockrock didn't!

@scottcrocker3265 7 күн бұрын

Something's wrong with KZfaq. I love watching these videos and I watch every MockRock video yet it took almost 3 months for this to get recommended to me. Great vid wtf agorithm

@illford6921 2 ай бұрын

Why does Kokonoe have both Stalking Flare AND Jam Session. Even in Marvel this character would be insane and it's automatic as well 😭

@Lazergician 2 ай бұрын

LK collab content remains unmatched

@VilArknights 3 ай бұрын

HELL YEAH MOCKROCK AND LK THE GOATS

@Kinma15 2 ай бұрын

Jumping is so ridiculous in DBFZ since i started playing in the rollback unless it's bardock or tohan everyone round start will just jump back as fast as they can. It makes me wish i had Gauntlet Hades

@coreydopson2030 2 ай бұрын

Dang didnt even mention the gapless block string into blackhole that built like 33 heat or the fact blackhole had optimal routes to build meter that lets you just blackhole again

@coreydopson2030 2 ай бұрын

Also they nerfed blackhole making it scale 80% unless you hit a frame perfect link. To make this harder there are 3 randomly chosen heights (and thus timings) that blackhole could drop from. Its basically a 50 meter taunt now

@A.Cobalt 15 күн бұрын

Damn, I’ve never played BlazBlue but I’ve played most other fighters. You’re telling me she had EVEN MORE STUFF?! How does a character get past testing like this lol

@coreydopson2030 15 күн бұрын

@A.Cobalt because she was an $8 day 1 DLC. Gotta get that money. Also everyone in blazblue is broken. Kokonoe was just a little too oppressive and didnt have to meet some requirements first like the other oppressove characters like Arakune, Carl and Rachel who needed a little time and spacing to set up

@A.Cobalt 15 күн бұрын

@@coreydopson2030 ahh I see, I understand why they’d make her strong, but that black hole super is just ludicrous

@coreydopson2030 15 күн бұрын

@A.Cobalt yeah it was pretty unfair even by blazblue standards. Its completely worthless now though so she paid for her sins. She's still very strong but they changed how a lot of her kit worked between bbcp and bbcf. I personally think shes a lot more fun now.

@ramonmolina9136 3 ай бұрын

Leaving comment for the algorithm. Thank you lord knight and friends.

@ChimbzZ 3 ай бұрын

kokonoe is the reason I didn't learn blazblue. Everyone played her online, and I couldn't learn shit haha

@UmbraAnimus 2 ай бұрын

This is a dumb comment since I know its super iconic, but what is the name of the song playing in the background? Its driving me nuts.

@ohsoghost5988 2 ай бұрын

spider dance - undertale

@HopeYourDoingOkay 2 ай бұрын

I would probably go with pre-patch Lerot form Tekken 7...Evo JP that year...

@TopOfAllWorlds 2 ай бұрын

Pichu was atrocious. Shoulda never had the ftilt. That was the only nerf he needed though. Maybe slightly SLIGHTLY increase the self dmg. Went way too hard on the poor thing

@rimzaaah5892 3 ай бұрын

MORE CROSSOVERS!!!!

@wiredpotatomail 3 ай бұрын

YOOOOOOOOO THEY FINALLY DID IT

@cambalache9139 3 ай бұрын

Lets see if he talks about Leichi or Mitsuru again

@shlrup6154 3 ай бұрын

EYO LORD LK AND MOCKROCK?!

@orestesmihalyiii1015 2 ай бұрын

DO A PART 2

@someaccount5200 2 ай бұрын

I feel like you should have mentioned CPEX Nu or CF Carl/Izanami since all 3 of those characters are very good specifically version 1 of Carl And Version 1.1 Izanami

@Juelz_GnW 3 ай бұрын

smash AND fighting games lmaooo

@Caleb-zl4wk 2 ай бұрын

He counts smash as a fighting game, that was like a freudian slip most likely. He wasn’t trynna say nothing.

@myuutosan 5 күн бұрын

HOO HAAH!!!!!!! DIDDY KONG!!!!!!!!!!

@evilded2 3 ай бұрын

Fuck Yes, This is hype.

@freenythesecond 2 ай бұрын

🙏

@dragocrafterr8286 2 ай бұрын

lk and mockrock holy banger

@Ai-jr4ou 2 ай бұрын

Moral of the story, play small characters they're bullshit.

@darkdendan 2 ай бұрын

Now you need to do Tekken

@erhanjpg1467 3 ай бұрын

pichu is so funny

@squirrelwithabanana 3 ай бұрын

YOOOOO LK AND MOCKROCK COLLAB

@squirrelwithabanana 3 ай бұрын

Prepatch pichu would be a mid tier today ngl

@wh0racle3 2 ай бұрын

Do one about Soul Calibur 4 Hilde. I used to get soooo many rage messages from playing her online. because she can basically kill you in 1 hit off a move with guard-point on it

@teacupguy0147 3 ай бұрын

I don't know what's up with your vid or youtube, but I swear to god I had an ad every 5 min for the whole hour. Great vid, but yeah you should look if you can fix that...

@Ishmaster2020 2 ай бұрын

👍

@elijahoneill5228 2 ай бұрын

Trunks is fixed gotenks has real snap setups, when is LK coming back to DBFZ? 😢

@Krona-fb4dn 2 ай бұрын

One thing with Smash IMO is that Nintendo and Sakurai aren't really good at balance or updating the game unlike most other companies and fighting games. If Nintendo released Pre-patch T7 Leeroy/FighterZ Kid Goku/Sol Badguy, each would've gotten a minor nerf at best if Nintendo released them and they would still probably have all their issues in the final release if they got in Smash. I'm not gonna act like balance is easy or that there isn't good examples. But Smash has kinda always had a de-facto "best character" in every game since Brawl. (Steve, Smash 4 Bayonetta, and Brawl Meta Knight), Ultimate is a little iffy since Steve isn't a solely dominant character but he borders very close to that territory of being very difficult to fight, and all these characters in these games are also flanked by other *VERY* oppressive top tiers (Rosa, Diddy, Cloud, Sonic, etc. in Smash 4, Icies, Diddy, and Olimar in Brawl, and Ultimate has Sonic, G&W, Rob, and more)

@PeppySweetheart 2 ай бұрын

HYPE CROSSOVERS

@banjospiegel 2 ай бұрын

ayo whats the deal with you taking credit for lab 21 ????

@defianthound407 2 ай бұрын

LK gotta preface these discussions with the character in question is broken.....in a game full of Also nasty characters so it's not like it's super unfair

@elijahoneill5228 3 ай бұрын

Like the video 📸

@Creepo_J 3 ай бұрын

I like fighting pichu more than pikachu mainly because his hurtbox is bigger Big bobble baby head and giant ears Little fastfaller can't drift out of the way in time Laggier thunderjolt Non threatening recovery

@Caleb-zl4wk 2 ай бұрын

Dude I hate Pika so much

@TopOfAllWorlds 2 ай бұрын

@@Caleb-zl4wk I root for pikachu players soley to feel justified in knowing he's broken

@Creepo_J 2 ай бұрын

@Caleb-zl4wk When you learn how to scrap and parry in the matchup it's honestly fair Until you get back air trained Choose to lose character like Pacgod fair

@Mo-pk4db 3 ай бұрын

Sup

@akasajian 3 ай бұрын

Please adjust the gain on your mic.

@derbaus6228 3 ай бұрын

React to the new HxH game bro

@mandsaar 3 ай бұрын

He wont need to react, he's playing the game this weekend bro

@abr3127 3 ай бұрын

No hate to you Lk or mockrock but I've been waiting for this upload for so long as someone who really enjoys both smash and fighting games but this guy genuinely doesnt know what hes talking about. A lot of his content is just blatantly wrong and almost EVERYTHING he said about pichu was incorrect. Like I'm really not trying to hate but please collab with a top player or a commentator this guy doesnt know what hes talkin about

@lintecassidy206 3 ай бұрын

What was he wrong about? I don’t play smash

@captainharpoon 3 ай бұрын

@@lintecassidy206 I have the same question

@tonydragon784 3 ай бұрын

No clue who this dude is but if you want anyone to believe you i'd provide counterpoints/examples of what he's wrong about

@cameronrramos 3 ай бұрын

no hate :) but this guy you had on :) was dumb :) and not a pro :) elaborate? :) no :) cmon man lol

@PennozC 2 ай бұрын

@@lintecassidy206mainly the combos he's showing is not accounting the directionnal influence you can do in smash(which make it so you can die later, and change the way the opponent had to do his combos, or straight up deleted them )the combos hes doing himself are straight up not real(like uptilt jump thunder) the way pichu was playing neutral is also not really explained, his projectile was mostly an approach tools that led to a mixup on almost every situation, it was a bit similar to projectile-drive rush in sf6, he never showed the situation the "f-tilt" was really used, ect ect He's a casual content creator, he obviously knows a lot about the game but not the same way a competitor/top player would