VHS modified as high quality audio recorder Part 1 of 2

Рет қаралды 102,512

3 жыл бұрын

Part 1 of 2. It seems to be not clear, that this modification is from 1982! The time that DAT was very expansive or (in my case) not available at all. VHS and tape's where cheap and the 'standard' HiFi recording had it's drow-backs.
This Hitachi VHS recorder was in my collection, from the beginning of 1982, give or take a few years. One of two machines. Not used for all that time, decided to fully overhaul the unit. New belts etc. Because it was somehow special. In my wild years (1982), a converted this recorder to a HiFi audio machine. So designed and build the necessary electronics to use it, without video. The idee was; if you leaf the video out, there is more room for a audio track on the rotating drum. The head amplifiers will give more output, and the quality will be better. I was not disappointed in the results. And after 40 years, it still produces a clean and perfect sound.

Пікірлер: 351

@movingpixeldeeler Жыл бұрын

99.99999999% KZfaq viewers don't realize just how freaking AWESOME this is!

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

Thanks (and it was 1982!)

@mcpoulet13 Жыл бұрын

This is a masterpiece. You are a Bodhisattva of audio engineering Theo. A thousand respects to you sir.

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

Thank you for all your kind words...!

@robjordan63 Жыл бұрын

That's a project to be proud of, amazing work, thanks for sharing.

@chrislj2890 Жыл бұрын

Jeez, that voice over was computer generated? That's the best I've ever heard, as I thought it was a real woman.

@Brookspirit Жыл бұрын

I used a VHS machine to record audio from the radio in the 80s. It was the only way i had to record a 3-hour radio show back then. It was also in Hifi stereo.

@HelloKittyFanMan Жыл бұрын

Wow, the difference between the hi-fi and standard audio sweep measurements is astounding!

@ebenwaterman5858 Жыл бұрын

I can't believe somebody did this. I thought I could do something like this, back when floppy disks were high tech, for mass storage. And of course for audio too. Terrific job. :)

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

Thanks...!

@Papias_GR Жыл бұрын

Congratulations! I had the same idea back then, but zero knowledge of how to do it. I'm glad you made it!

@IrreverentSOB Жыл бұрын

Wonderful, truly amazing project, one of the best videos I have ever seen on youtube !

@davedrew9328 Жыл бұрын

The current date & time is 18.39 and the date the 10th May 2023. I have to say what a great day it is for me to find your website it is amazing I will write more when I have watched some of your video’s. Thanks for all your great work.

@nazcaplain Жыл бұрын

I clicked on your video expecting to see a PCM board inserted into the chassis - so I'm quite pleasantly surprised that you've instead made an entirely analog recorder with similar specifications, magic!

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

Thanks..! and it was 1982..

@bob4analog 6 ай бұрын

This is absolutely amazing! Your hifi recordings sound awesome and have no head switching noise, which is common with ordinary hifi recordings. I would love to convert my machines as you have done with yours.

@TheoFaber 6 ай бұрын

Most of the profit is the absence of video and the use of the video-heads as audio recording. Suc6 with your hobby!

@lawrencedoliveiro9104 Жыл бұрын

This is similar to how audio CD mastering was done in the early days. Machines like the Sony U-Matic PCM-1610/1630 were adapted to record and play back the digital audio stream to the laser machine that made the CD master. I think the 44100Hz sample rate was even derived from the characteristics of the video frame/field rates.

@shiva_MMIV Жыл бұрын

Not really, the standard sample rate then was 48khz, today it's still the same or some multiple, it was lowered to 44.1 so 74 mins of audio could be crammed into an audio CD.

@Vermaakuitdieboonsterakke 3 ай бұрын

Original comment is correct. 44.1kHz sampling rate gets an integer number of samples on a TV scan line. That allowed unmodified NTSC video recorders to record and playback the compact disc data stream with only a few added synch pulses.

@itchcock1 3 ай бұрын

Came for the tech, stayed for the calendar on the wall. Woof.

@TheoFaber 3 ай бұрын

Tech combined with real live is my way to go.....!!!

@itchcock1 3 ай бұрын

@@TheoFaber Stay dirty

@cv507 7 күн бұрын

$härp eyy mae id ßuit you well -: -

@guerrillaradio9953 Жыл бұрын

I've had the idea to do something similar, but even simpler. Start with an old top loading, early, mechanical VCR, but get rid of the video circuit/drum/heads entirely (or just use them as mechanical support, not connected to anything electrically) and use 1/2" reel to reel heads, basically giving you a 1/2" reel to reel cassette recorder/player.

@Sonnell Жыл бұрын

Yeah, but you would need at least twice the tape speed, and different erasing biases and so on. But still a neat idea.

@guerrillaradio9953 Жыл бұрын

Yeah, the tape speed is the main obstacle, but also as you mentioned, the biasing, as VHS media is a CrO2 type tape, but as some have experimented with reslitting it for compact cassette, it still does not bias the same as a typical commercial type II CrO2 cassette, or sound very good at all... very low levels, no matter how it's biased, etc. Of course, you could change the motor/pulleys to increase the speed, and refill the VHS cassette with normal type I 1/2" reel to reel media, but ehh... might be fun though 🤷

@Sonnell Жыл бұрын

@@guerrillaradio9953 Agree :)

@mbrombert Жыл бұрын

The difference at the end is unbelievable. Really great work and I wish I had the same device in my studio!

@marcbrasse747 6 ай бұрын

For my early VHS mastering stories see my comment to part 2. still crazy to think that in a time when everybody was drooling over digital the best VHS’s could actually outperform the CD format. Never became a standard though.

@NateTurnage 6 ай бұрын

Really incredible. Thanks for sharing.

@monkeyengine3954 Жыл бұрын

I used to record audio all the time on a Mitsubishi Nicam video recorder, mostly radio. It was better than the tape deck I had. It also had remote control and index search.

@eefjuh5533 Жыл бұрын

Nicam2 digital stereo. I had:( two JVC recorders doing that, after setting the switch to audio only

@Music4Movies-sr8vo 9 ай бұрын

I remember in the mid 80s I use the Toshiba DX 900 PCM VCR to do all my mix down to digital and it worked out great

@TheoFaber 9 ай бұрын

Nothing wrong with that set-up! and nothing wrong with digital, if the final mix is ok!

@MadScientist267 Жыл бұрын

This is great! This is what was making audio great back then - seeking maximum quality.

@juanvilchez Жыл бұрын

Mr. Faber congratulations on the achievement. Beautiful mod. Thanks for the video, it’s very informative.

@elektron2kim666 Жыл бұрын

Brilliant idea. I bought an expensive cassette deck as a teenager for the 80s. It was quite popular for 100+ people. I also used it for the ZX-Spectrum. It made me a music collection from the radio/amp deck. All of that became a rescue for some parties. Most players and stereos were crap back then so it all made sense.

@mrnobones01 Жыл бұрын

Truly incredible. I wondered about this kind of application a couple years ago, but lack the knowledge and skill to make it happen. Amazing. Great job.

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

Thanks...!

@LeoFazio Жыл бұрын

Nice video!! I've been experimenting with mixing music in VHS using a handycam i have and the results are amazing too!

@neozeed8139 Жыл бұрын

Just when I think Techmoan could run out of ancient audio formats, and this surfaces! just incredible!

@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 Жыл бұрын

Techmoan could never put this together.. he's more of a collector - shower-offer .. not an inventor engineer. Your comment is actually insulting.

@ConnorDylan Жыл бұрын

I've been wondering about this for years. Using all of the tape for audio only, and no video.

@Seiskid Жыл бұрын

Like what you've done. Use your own voice though - not the computer generated one, haha. I nearly didn't watch because I initially thought it was a computer generated video. It's much easier to listen to a real person, someone interesting, with real character and I'm glad to see that you're a real human. Your English is definitely easier to follow than the robot girl. Back to the topic, I really like what you've done. I'm inspired to drag out my old VHS and see how it sounds. The scope pictures look really nice - you can see the wobble on the analogue audio that is typical of any tape - very impressed how steady the hifi stream is.

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

Thanks - and about the voice, it's correct. But i am Dutch and not very experienced with explaining in English. I am insecure about my voice / choice of words, so again thank you.

@yrath5034 Жыл бұрын

@@TheoFaber Your Dutch accent sounds wonderful, your English is great and you shouldn't be insecure. Thanks for the video.

@160rpm Жыл бұрын

@@TheoFaber All Dutch people have the same accent when speaking English so don't worry too much 😁

@vertujoe2886 10 ай бұрын

This is an epic and fundamental mod. Suppose you made this a product in the days. In that case, this may become an industrial standard piece comparable to TEAC 8mm 8 track digital or STUDER A820 24 track reel to reel, and even be praised and memorized until this day and years after this ingenious design worth a million likes!

@TheoFaber 10 ай бұрын

Thank you Joe for your kind words. Story of my live. Because it's hobby en interesse, i frequently mis the bus and the millions. This project has a sequel. I am puzzling to use more than 2 rf carriers, so multipel tracks can be recorded. F😊ully analogue again. Note: i am not against digital, it's only my curiosity...😊

@andydredlox8686 Ай бұрын

I have watched your video over and over and over again. And always wondered especially in the wake of excellent video compression i.e. mpeg4 x264 and x265 and now x266 is it possible to "stream" encode/decode an MP4 stream to VHS?? Especially when we can get a 4k acceptable film down to about 3gb or is the analogue bandwidth just not there?? I would love to see any sort of digital 4k video stream on VHS...

@TheoFaber Ай бұрын

There is enough bandwidth to record MP3, MP4 that's not the problem. But at the end of a (video) frame there is a cap. In 'normal' VHS recorders there are 2 video heads. They switch over at the end of a frame (25or30Hz). So it's necessary to overcome that problem because the fault compensation can not handle that switch over distortion. Sony (but more marks) had a solution, in those day's. They time compressed the digital package and used only the visible part of the video track. The end of a frame was not used. By playback, they expand they package and the original stream became available. BUT tha's all digital, and there are so many good recording formats that can record digital. My design comes from the 80s. And is ALL ANALOUE. In those day's a perfect alternative for the costly digital solutions. (in fact, it costed next to nothing) But the idea is not so bad, i to wondered several times. Sorry for the bad English

@sadaghian 7 ай бұрын

You're amazing

@TheoFaber 7 ай бұрын

Thanx...!

@michaelcharach Жыл бұрын

Very cool. Quite a small VHS machine for the time. The portables I can remember from my youth around that time were huge!

@georgH Жыл бұрын

That was great! Thank you for the video :)

@andrelima4876 Жыл бұрын

Really cool! Good work...

@randyjackson5227 Жыл бұрын

Toshiba made a VHS VCR that would convert the audio to video using the PCM F-1 standard. This video was recorded to the VHS tape. You could even record two more audio channels the the HI-FI audio channels of the VCR, giving you 4 channels (2 digital and 2 analog)

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

Yep correct! But as stated before, it was digital and expensive.

@g-r-a-e-m-e- 10 ай бұрын

Do you have any more information on that? Very interesting!

@randyjackson5227 10 ай бұрын

@@g-r-a-e-m-e- it was a Toshiba DX-900 VCR circa 1987. Of course at some point the tape transport died and I couldn’t use it to play back tapes. But the tapes were compatible with the Sony PCM F-1 and also an external unit made by Technics. So I just used a standalone VCR with those units to play back tapes and transfer to the computer (via analog audio capture).

@g-r-a-e-m-e- 10 ай бұрын

@@randyjackson5227 thanks 👍. I do remember those days and would have loved to have a Sony pcm system but couldn't afford it. There was even a PC system backup using VHS.

@quadrant2005 Жыл бұрын

I found this video really interesting, A nice peice of kit you had built there..

@djefferson5669 Жыл бұрын

It would be great to hear that you captured live radio broadcasts with this machine throughout the eighties.

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

Not much thou. Mostly vinyl (LP).

@nate250 8 ай бұрын

Great video. I would love to see an audio only, analog VHS machine in this day and age. Unfortunately, no company still makes the mechanism (I think 2016 or 2018 was the last time) so that a none starter.

@TheoFaber 6 ай бұрын

2004 the last units where made in Japan.

@Oli1974 Жыл бұрын

Your sweep showed me that I can't even proper hear 9 kHz anymore :(

@guerrillaradio9953 Жыл бұрын

Me either! 🤣 See, there's no point now in buying music on any format better than vinyl or cassette, because it's as good or better than our own ears' frequency response now.... it's hell getting old.

@rjy8960 7 ай бұрын

I always wondered how good Hifi audio on VHS could be. To me at the time it sounded pretty good but I didn't know about the track overlap. I guess removing video maximises the potential of a format that could have been incredibly good as an analogue high-end system, but at the time everyone wanted to go to digital systems and the marketing pretty much ended the idea of analogue high resolution domestic formats. Brilliant engineering, Theo. Congratulations on your achievements! I do still love the sound of analogue recordings and my old high-speed Revox B77 is still very much in use! 73 M0SNR

@TheoFaber 7 ай бұрын

Thanx! 73 - PA2THF

@chumleyk Жыл бұрын

nice wall art

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

I need that as stimulation.... gives me inspiration...!

@Turboy65 Жыл бұрын

In the 80s Sansui produced a modified VCR that recorded and played back linear PCM digital audio. The PCM-F1. A digital tape recorder using VHS tapes.

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

But that was digital. This modification cost next to nothing in the 80's and was analogue.

@AiMR Жыл бұрын

I think the real question here is why there wasn't a move from linear recording to diagonal HD analog audio.

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

@@AiMR There were several attemps to design a system that was not to expensive and only for the happy few. One of the most suc6 full was Sony with it's PCM-F1 (1981) It digitised stereo audio and inserted it, on a black video signal. That signal good be recorded on any video-recorder. Unit als decoded tis video back to audio. Video was recorded on the rotating drum. It worked great, but cost about 1900 dollar (1981).

@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 Жыл бұрын

@@TheoFaber it appears it cost you more time than money. I saw the work on that breadboard :)

@luisvalc2187 Жыл бұрын

Trabajo extraordinario. El equipo se ve bellísimo. Felicitaciones, gran vídeo.

@rodrigobelinchon2982 6 ай бұрын

amazing

@jhonwask Ай бұрын

Very interesting. I wish you could publish the circuits and DIY kit. It would be very much fun to turn one of my VCR's into a high-end audio recorder.

@giuseppelavecchia775 2 жыл бұрын

Il suono del VHS e' PERFETTO,IMPECCABILE!.bel video

@paulb4uk Жыл бұрын

Superb work .

@FortyTwoAnswerToEverything Жыл бұрын

Incredibly clear comparison at the end when switching between the two.

@yaroc07 Жыл бұрын

Wow! Great job!

@3dmaxuser 6 ай бұрын

That is such a cool project well done :)

@EdEditz Жыл бұрын

Mooi project! Klinkt fantastisch!

@TheoFaber 2 жыл бұрын

Yes Hasjelu, that switch is the original analoog audio-switch. Two tracks, so stereo if you want to. And still operational. So the recorder has after the modification 4 tracks. 2 analoog and 2 HiFi on the place where the video use to be! Great New Year!

@desreb740 2 жыл бұрын

Great info.

@beardymcbeardface69 Жыл бұрын

This reminds me of a digital audio recording system which used VHS tapes (like a huge DAT system). From memory there was also a similar system which plugged into a regular VHS machine, which recorded and played back digital audio encoded as a video signal.

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

Sony's PCM system, very expensive!

@cleverhardy5230 Жыл бұрын

Alesis' ADAT system was huge too, and based on videotapes. It was pretty much the recording standard until it was replaced with hard disks.

@AndyNL Жыл бұрын

Theo , amazing work, I hope somebody in your family can pick it up when you end the hobby.

@MePeterNicholls Жыл бұрын

Sounds great!

@canaldrive_r 7 ай бұрын

Este trabalho impressionante em um aparelho tão antigo demonstra seu vasto conhecimento em eletrônica. Obrigado por compartilhar.

@TheoFaber 7 ай бұрын

Thanx - and all the best for 2024!

@moviebod Жыл бұрын

Very interesting Theo. I went down a similar rabbit hole with double speed compact cassettes in the 1980s by changing the gearing of the drive, but I didn't do any electronics work which was beyond me. The results were interesting and I thought the tapes sounded better (but they lasted half as long), but I had no way of checking if the frequency response was affected. I have subscribed.

@guerrillaradio9953 Жыл бұрын

I would think that you're right. Look at 80s 4 track cassette recorders for bands/musicians...they not only use both sides of the tape (L and R side A and B at the same time to get 4 full tracks), but many also ran the tape at a higher speed by default for more resolution/headroom. If you listen to people playing around with them on KZfaq and recording directly in off the tape, they sound amazing for a cassette, and I say that as someone who loves cassettes!

@TheoFaber 2 жыл бұрын

Dear Anthony. Your question (s) is/are the wright one(s). Indeed, I was in the process of making better use of the video track from in this case VHS. And for your info .. VHS also makes use of ‘depth recording’. By writhing the audio first and then the video on THE SAME PLACE with an other azimuth a major part of the audio is simply erased by the video recording. Indeed, the audio is under the video, but in reality, the are on the same place. (see my video) By switching of the video recording signal, audio is no longer erased. RF output in play-back is more or less 500 precent higher. Because audio is FM modulated, that’s beautiful for the playback of the audio. Together with the low frequencies used for the audio, normal drop-out are not of influence. Also the ‘take-over’ in de head can not be found in playback. That was on my mind when I designed the recorder in a old portable VHS. Wow and flutter are superb (can not be measured). Frequency response is over 30kc (see video).

@anthonya7990 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for clearing my doubts and errors from old rusty video info which I had played around with abt 20 to 23 years back. Will catch up direct.

@fartking2845 Жыл бұрын

Is there any way to install an analog\digital timer on the front of the case? It would be extremely helpful if someone wants to time stamp their Individual music files stored on VHS cassette tapes.

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

Dear Kovar. There are different way's to do that. Most simpel solution is to measure the rotation of one of the reel tables. In this type, it's already measured for the display, that was originally there. BUT, it will be different for any type of machine you will be using. Apart from the mechanical solution, there are several electronical possibility's. But with all respect; if you are not able to design a counting system, you will not be able to build one without severe difficulty's. In short; it will be different for all kinds of machines.

@fartking2845 Жыл бұрын

@@TheoFaber Thank you for the reply. Yes I agree as well. Perhaps its best to find a HIFI VCR player with a time counter on the front. Quite hard to achieve that goal these days with so few VCR'S remaining. Maybe one day in the future a company somewhere will make a new batch for novelty collectors.

@AlexandreLollini Жыл бұрын

I did use that in the beginning of CD because the hifi vhs enabled me to have 4 hours of non stop music and in the order (playlist) that I wanted. I did use a yamaha DSP audio video amplifier to generate a uniform flat grey picture to feed to the s-video cable because this way I got less noise on the audio recording, but clearly your method of removing the video signal all together is much much better. My S-VHS was a panasonic, and it had very clear picture by picture replays. (for the time) also Amiga and genlock to insert titles etc ... lol nostalgia.

@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 Жыл бұрын

yes it may be better but it took a whole lot more time for a marginal improvement and if anyone had crucial audio to record you would be going to a professional studio to have it mastered anyways.. so it is more akin to a novelty - a cool novelty though ! Impressive .

@cepamoa70 2 жыл бұрын

Fantastic video, and thanks a lot to share your knowledge under open license ! I plan to use my sony slv-E825 to master my musical home-studio analog works (tought it lacks manual record levels) as i experienced it is a little beast when used as hifi purposes. What would be on your opinion the best VCR reference (or modified one ) to achieve the best in terms of s/n, dynamics and regularity ?

@TheoFaber 2 жыл бұрын

Hello Frédérick. Well the best you are looking for are the - semi - professional recorders. They offer manual audio level control and VU meters. Picture quality usually not always the best, although you will aspect that from recorders of that price. Problem can be; that second hands pro VHS is extensively used (duplo houses) and therefor has a bad video drum. The audio heads will go first and you end up with a nice looking recorder and bad sound. Unless you can get a spare head? Google for; Panasonic AG 7350 or AG6810 enz, but there are a lot. Simply Google for professional VHS recorder. (if you have the money) If you are a technician, you can look for a good consumer recorder, modify it (like the one in the video) and select one (recycle shop) that you can easily access. Use the video heads for HiFi audio. My recorders are a hell, because everything is packed together and difficult to access. Complete new design will not be necessary. You can simply make the audio manual and use a separate VU meter of choice. Succes. Theo.

@josnqn Жыл бұрын

Great job!

@MrVinamp 3 жыл бұрын

Dit is behoorlijk interessant!

@geraldspitzner4932 Жыл бұрын

Interesting, great Video...

@jezgomez 2 жыл бұрын

I love using VHS to record audio. The biggest concern I have is related to the compander and the effect it has on the sound

@TheoFaber 2 жыл бұрын

Yep, you are wright, it’s compressed. BUT it’s not all that bad. In this case, recordings are only played back on the same recorder. Interchangeability is not a problem. And there is no video (rf) carrier that erases 90 precent of the hifi audio. The audio rf that comes back from the tape, is enormous compared to the original state. So the switch-over is no problem (it’s also the same head). Don’t forget; video-heads are used for audio. The recorder did not have hifi originally. But in theory, there is a change of linearity distortion. But it’s theory. Test’s with all kind of waveforms, small or large, especially sawtooth (is that good English?) there is no distortion that I can see (pro-oscilloscope). from 50Hz to 35Kc. But correct adjustments of the audio-amplitude stay’s necessary.

@jezgomez 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheoFaber that's a fantastic reply, thank you!

@MyDenney Жыл бұрын

I love putting hi fi audio on VHS hi fi. The problem is vcr’s for some unexplained reason stoped putting adjustable audio level meters on the units. Without them you are operating in the blind.how do you use a vcr to hat does not have audio level meters? As most vcrs don’t have them. Is there a work around?

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

Yes... as you can see, i made a (led) meter on the front. You must be reasonably technical, to modify a machine, that is not equipped with manual control. Most of the consumer video machines have a automatic volume control. That's the first thing you have to modify. Not easy, because it's inside a integrated circuit. It depends on the IC if you can modify this. Service manual and skill's are necessary! Wish you all the luck....!

@disraivaaja258 Жыл бұрын

wow!! thx for the video

@Sergioluna80s Жыл бұрын

Nice poster in the wall hehehe

@hernanvassallo9902 10 ай бұрын

Amazing!!!

@joeynrg Жыл бұрын

Great video. That mouse pointer tho....

@swilwerth 6 ай бұрын

Hi! I've done decoding in software of this kind of FM stereo. The method is the same but the analog RF is sampled and decoded later in software. It have been hard to find documentation about the noise reduction compander/dolby like the encoder/decoder has to reproduce it in software. The most detailed instructions I found are from the IEC60774-2/1999 specification but they are vage on the actual implementation. Do you know where or how to search for that?

@TheoFaber 6 ай бұрын

Correct; it's hard to find details. Mostly because different brands use different standards. To crazy for words, but they are more or less interchangeable. Like FM radio they all use standard pre-emphasis. On top of that, most use a kind of DBX compression. So a simple 1 band compression. (Dolby uses more, but is not used in HiFi VHS). Big problem is, that most consumer VHS have an automatic volume control, that disturbs the audio volume info. Because the noise suppression is not all that aggressive, the influents is (almost) not heard. Like digital (MP3) it's there in theory, but you need measurements or somebody with a lat off fantasy to tell the difference. Is it a mastering norm? - no. Is it one of the affordable analoge audio recordings? - yes! BUT - you have to unable the video heads / track and use it only for FM audio. I use the video heads for that. Standard 2 track's but there is room for more (8-16).

@bob4analog 6 ай бұрын

Is that all that is necessary is to disconnect the video heads on a hifi machine?

@rover8772 Жыл бұрын

Mooi gemaakt Theo!

@Helderhugo Жыл бұрын

That is great.

@ramonfelizjr Жыл бұрын

Can you make 8 or 16 channels in and out ? For recording and mixing ? The quality goes down more channels ? Thx

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

The quality will not deteriorate by the nr of channels! - I used the 'standard' frequency's for HiFi sound. But by selecting the other freq very carefully, 8 (stereo) channels will not create a problem. You need 8 times the electronics that i used and the displays to adjust and controle the recording levels. So no small deal... 16 channels ... a challenge!

@Kylefassbinderful Жыл бұрын

To this day I make 6hr-8hr VHS hifi mix tapes with my LG VCR connected to my laptop running Apple Music or KZfaq Music. I don't plug in any video signal while recording. So far my oldest made tape is about 3 years old and it sounds great. You want to record some blank space at the beginning of the tape because that's usually where the dropouts start happening. Once you're about a ~1m or so into the tape it's smooth sailing. You gotta store your tapes properly and take care of your VCR because playing mix tapes on the same hardware that recorded onto them in somewhat paramount. They'll (probably) play on another VHS _hifi_ device but sometimes you get mixed results depending on how good the hardware is. Even with all these caveats I love VHS hifi audio. It sounds so clean, no tape hiss, long recording times. I have had quality mixes made even while recording on slower EP or SLP speed settings.

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

You can win a lot, when you switch of the video-recording to the heads. Thereby your sound will no longer be partly erased!

@Kylefassbinderful Жыл бұрын

@@TheoFaber I just don't plug in the video signal and then it doesn't record anything extra

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

@@KylefassbinderfulAll types of VHS recorders are different in how they react. Some rec. need video to operate, others don't! Still the video heads are recording and therefore erasing most of the audio track. You will not here the difference but the output from tape to the audio amp will be only 20 procent or so. Thats whey you need to disconnect the video recording at the heads. Has nothing to do with video input or not! Drop outs will greatly be less than with video recording. Look closely to the video!!!

@Fantabiscuit Жыл бұрын

How is this even possible to do unless you’re a genius

@hafibeat834 Жыл бұрын

I don't see any sense to record a computer playlist to "tape" instead of saving it to the machine itself, but hey, if it makes you happy... :-)

@alvarogvdltgarcia52 Жыл бұрын

I have just started recording on HI-FI VHS with an almost professional Panasonic device that has manual settings for recording levels. I was expecting to be able to record vinyl but when playing back the recordings the sound doesn't have the dynamism or the separation of instruments and voices that vinyl does. The quality is very good but I don't understand why I lose dynamism? I don't understand if it's the effect of the compression that we complain so much about since I've read that VHS HIFI doesn't really exceed 80 or 90 db of dynamic range... And its only 45 more or les. Is there anything that can be done? The device is a Panasonic NV-F70.

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

Coincidental, I have a Panasonic NV-FS1 and had some problems with it. Notorious from this machines are the video-heads. And also mine had after a closer look, worn out audio-heads on the drum. The machine will go automatically to the longitudinal audio (back-up) and that’s not bad, it’s really bad! Mine has a manual override and selecting the old audio track give’s noise and terrible characteristics. But I think that you already tested that and that it is not the problem. Degradation in quality is strange, if you really can here it. 60db must not be a problem, look at the spec’s that are given on internet for your machine. HiFi audio has NO linear compression, that’s the beauty of analogue. Bad case you will hear noise. Only the frequency response can vary, if the machine is not correctly calibrated. During record, parts of the audio are enhanced and during play-back corrected, more or less like Dolby in pre-historic-times. Look at my clip. There are the numbers that you can achieve. But that’s with switch-off video channel, so the audio has all the tape for itself and is no longer erased.

@alvarogvdltgarcia52 Жыл бұрын

@@TheoFaber i feel the sound compresed, amazing quality, but not the same as Vinyl (as It must be).

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

@@alvarogvdltgarcia52 Yes strange and not logical. It's fully analoge and the dynamic window of the tape, is so much more than vinyl, I do not understand? Sorry to say so, but is it not bicause you love vinyl to much???

@hafibeat834 Жыл бұрын

The problem is HF-Modulation to use audio on rotating heads. It's very unreliable if the machine gets old. Forget this obsolete format.

@eudesfernandes4774 6 ай бұрын

Can you provide a article that describes the circuit that "emulate" the presence of the video heads? I will like to do that on a already hi fi VCR.

@TheoFaber 6 ай бұрын

I am Dutch, so it's not clear (English) what you mean by 'emulate'. If you have a HiFi, than use the video heads as active audio heads. Short the HiFi heads and recalibrate the (videoheads) record current. So the output of the HiFi recorder amp is connected to the video heads. BUT FIRST check if the hole recorder will work without video signal. Normally this is necessary by the mode rec!

@eudesfernandes4774 6 ай бұрын

@@TheoFaber I will like to do what you've done with your VCR: use only the hifi track, totally supressing the video sinal. My VCR is a hifi one already.

@TheoFaber 6 ай бұрын

Than you have all the necessary things incl de compressor / de-compressor. Hope you can modify the audio volume, otherwise your stuck with the automatic, rather not! But it will work with the automatic. Hope you have the knowledge to modify the servo-systems. You can try to put comp video on the standard input, even if you dont record video. @@eudesfernandes4774

@ilanurielilanuriel Жыл бұрын

Have you considered ntsc vs pal? An ntcs head speed is 1800 rpm vs 1500 rpm for pal? Will that improve sound even more?

@centraliafuckcorruption 2 жыл бұрын

thanks for the video, can i disconnect the video heads on any vhs hi fi recorder to improve audio recording tia

@TheoFaber 2 жыл бұрын

Yes you can. It's better to disconnect them and then short circuit them. If they stay open, they can induce some output in a (mixed) rotary transformer. or you have to disconnect them on the drum itself.

@centraliafuckcorruption 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheoFaber my $20 ebay purchase Hitachi VT-F80E will become the test subject, this should be fun

@MARTIN201199 2 жыл бұрын

@@centraliafuckcorruption any instructions on how to do it ?

@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 Жыл бұрын

oddly this is being promoted suddenly in the side bar.. I see many comments posted in the last hour. I wonder why?

@arieloxford6790 Жыл бұрын

Yep! I'm here for that very reason. Very glad I am to be so as well.

@TheKoodus Жыл бұрын

I was also got by the algorhythm

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

I to! and have no idee?????

@haselu2002 2 жыл бұрын

Do you modify conventional VCR (mono audio track only ) to with HIFI rotary head?

@TheoFaber 2 жыл бұрын

That seems not logical, to modify a existing mono VCR, it will be to expensive. Unless it’s special vintage machine, with great value. A second hands (VHS HiFi) VCR, will cost at the recycle shop only 10 to 30 Euro’s. What is your plan…?

@haselu2002 2 жыл бұрын

No, just a question , watched your video .

@sureshbabu-xp4xb 8 ай бұрын

Can we use the hifi vcr to enhance audio quality of radio, TV and mono music players?

@TheoFaber 8 ай бұрын

No so sorry. The recording will at best equal the source. The original sound can be enhanced in a software package on pc or a specialized hardware solution.

@scottstrang1583 7 ай бұрын

AFM still have that same compansion NR method like dbx. Instead of tape his there was head switching. Still the system sounded awesome when it tracked well. Also slp or ep had more head noise.

@TheoFaber 7 ай бұрын

Correct, the only drawback (FM) was indeed compression / decompression and sometimes pre-emphasis. Strange that there was a difference between some brands in 'how to' handel nr. BUT BUT BUT - it was 1985 and the end-result was, that correct calibrated machine, with in this case the absent of a video carrier, the output (RF and audio) was magnificent. Beter that all my open reels in that time. As well as my ears - as the measuring equipment. And still to day, (for a few Euros) only surpassed by digital solutions. And there is room for more channels than 2 (or4).

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

Dear Ilan; no ... speed difference has no influence. The frequency used for sound, is relatively low so there is no difference in play-back. And I did not use the video playback electronics. Pls look at the video one more time, I use complete dedicated electronics for (FM) sound.

@ilanurielilanuriel Жыл бұрын

How are you connecting to the stereo amp? Through the video out? If so, do you demodulate the pal signal somewhere? Or did you add an amp that takes the signal read by the heads before it is modulated to pal?

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

see above

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

see above

@Capturing-Memories 2 жыл бұрын

The sync pulses are recorded at the bottom edge of the tape and audio on the top edge, I don't know where you get those illustrations from?

@TheoFaber 2 жыл бұрын

Possibly you are wright, I never checked this detail. It was irrelevant for the story I had to tell. The illustration came from internet. In all my years as technician I only repaired (semi) professional stuff. But thanks for the correction. And it’s not the sync pulses that are written longitudinal, sync simply is on his place in the video signal. But if you mean by sync, the servo puls than - again - you are wright!

@Capturing-Memories 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheoFaber Yes the capstan synchro pulses, There are projects going on now for VHS capturing if you are interested in contributing, e-mail me so we can talk about it.

@TheoFaber 2 жыл бұрын

@@Capturing-Memories Then I need a e-mail adres or pm on Facebook?!

@Capturing-Memories 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheoFaber I have an email address in my KZfaq channel, just go to about and show email address.

@Netm8kr Жыл бұрын

Theo, bravo for your research and discoveries. You have definitely built a dream machine. I hesitate to ask... Any chance you'd build another? I'd love to have one in my home studio.

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

Thanks Netm8kr? and bet you do! Don't blame you, the sound is fantastic, a full tape of 3 hours has nowhere drop-outs in playback because of the great disstance in signal and audio frequency's. BUT it has been a lot of work, so i am sorry that i will not design / build another. What you can do - if you have a old fashion video source - bey a second hands VHS that has HiFi. It's not the same, but you have an analogue recorder.

@Netm8kr Жыл бұрын

@@TheoFaber Indeed, I currently use a HiFi AIWA unit. I’ve been recording audio from vhs since the late 80’s. I guess, the gear hoarder in me is fascinated with the modified specs of your Hitachi. Not that I need anything else in my studio .🤦🏾‍♂️ You’ve certainly inspired me to use this setup more.

@brandosanto Жыл бұрын

Is there a way you could host the uncompressed samples of tape? I’d love to truly appreciate the sound quality without KZfaq compression.

@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 Жыл бұрын

you don't believe him?

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

??? very difficult. As soon I put something on the internet, it's digital.

@gregodessite Жыл бұрын

Excellent approach, and is it possible to convert old VHS tape for multitrack studio recording?

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

Yes, because the bandwidth is more than you use. 500kc to 4a5MHz. HiFi audio uses only two carriers both 150kc wide.

@Aleksei_Nak Жыл бұрын

@@TheoFaber 24 tracks on 1 VHS?))

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

@@Aleksei_Nak In theory yes. But it will be very - very difficult. Because all those carriers wil interfere with one and other. Produce inter-modilation. I think 8 to 12 tracks will be more realistic.

@ryanflynn5805 Жыл бұрын

What program did you use to generate the voice over? Also sounds incredible !

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

voiceovermaker.io/ and the voice was 'Amy' (Engl)... The best voiceover voices to my opinion. Google has also nice voices. Note you use a AI voice and not a mechanical one.

@phonatic Жыл бұрын

That is very impressive mod you have come up with. For the 80's it's a very efficient solution. Well done! 👍 I was wondering, can you play your audio-only VHS tapes on a regular VCR as well or will it reject the recording because the video part is missing?

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

Thanks - and yes, it's technical the same frequency's so it all depend on the VHS machine. Some will work fine, others will simply not synchronize because of the lak of video (indeed).

@tommyb.6064 2 жыл бұрын

Do you have the schematic for the video sync generator you built yourself?

@TheoFaber 2 жыл бұрын

Yes! but simply Google for the IC ... ZNA134. It's a complete test generator and I only use the sync. It's for 625 and 525 lines interlaced. Cost next to nothing, you only have to buy a crystal for it.

@svofski Жыл бұрын

I had no idea something like this could be possible, amazing project. As I understand it, analog audio is chopped in pieces, one video line long each, or 1/15625s in case of PAL. That's a high but audible frequency. I imagine there should be minuscule gaps or overlaps between video lines, too. Does it not really happen? Or are there some special measures to prevent this? Cheers!

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

NO it's not happening that way. There is NO video involved. Normally video is put on a FM modulated carrier and also recorded on tape. Both video and it's carrier are no longer in use. The audio is modulated on a FM carrier of it's own. Left and right have there own carrier. Those two carriers are recorded to tape. There is only one moment, that the drum is switching from head 1 to head 2. If the recorder is adjusted correctly, that moment is to short to be notist in the demodulator. Because video is not present, the signal (both audio-carriers) from tape is, is now enorm. Because it's no longer erased by the video carrier. So forget video, it's not there! With this knowledge, look at the video again. Greatings...

@svofski Жыл бұрын

@@TheoFaber thank you! I understood that there is no video involved, my question was about the head switching moment that happens anyway. I realize that the switchover happens too quickly for the FM demodulator to notice. That's really cool. Cheers!

@Dont_Gnaw_on_the_Kitty_1 Жыл бұрын

@@svofski The hi-fi audio IS recorded in diagonal strip's on the tape (much like the video strips). You are correct. The genius of this system is how he was able to remove the video strip's whilst still recording the audio strip's.

@v12alpine Жыл бұрын

It would be better in my opinion to compare your modifications to standard 4-head VHS HI-FI. It seems like you compared it to the LO-FI version? Reason being I used to record HI-FI audio on VHS with no video signal applied and it sounded really good, close to CD quality. I did not have to modify the VCR to do it. I would be interested to know how much better your version is.

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

As you can see in the video, it was better because not the video was muted, but the (RF) signal from the video-part to the rotating drum. So no longer was the HiFi signal partly erased. The audio-rf output from tape, was 10-15 dB more that way. Imagine what that means for drop-out and misalignment.

@bsmith9506 Жыл бұрын

I had a HiFi stereo VCR exclusively for archiving FM Stereo broadcasts, which stand up to this very day. Many of those recordings are here on KZfaq.

@bobjames2906 Жыл бұрын

please do BETAMAX next, Awesome stuff

@TheoFaber Жыл бұрын

Unfortunately Betamax was and still is expensieve in The Netherlands. Also this modification was created in 1982, when machine where not outdated. Now day's there are only used machines (old). But I have a design that good be build in any video recorder, so you never know!

@anthonya7990 2 жыл бұрын

Theo marvelous job, and that too way back years before DAT. More so this REAL ANALOG not a Digitized ADC to DAC system. I always wondered (comparing Reel to Reel) how it would turn out if full width of Video Tapes of 1/2 inch was fully used for only audio. I suppose we could (as you have shown, after disconnecting & shorting the Video Heads) use a HiFi VHS VCR with a Video signal ( for Head Drum Sync)from any Video Pattern Gen ( such as given in old Elektor Mags) can used to Rec/Play Audio this way. Further, in my limited VHS knowledge, the Hi Fi audio is recorded in the guard band between the video bands ( I may be wrong) as opposed to BeatMax where the Audio is Depth embedded below the same Video signal. In this case ( for VHS would there be a way for eg. modding the Drum Sync ckt, & using ALL 4 heads fully ( repeating/ adding the same ckt for 2 extra audio channels and then use all 4 head & so Full tape area. Would this be any better or just a small improvement ?. This may hjelp to get the full Magnetic Tape area/path such as a Reel to Reel without large Tape usage & low W&F.The TapeHead Forums does Tape Speed mods to get better audio from cassette tapes. Tried to get your email, but does not show. Thanks again, Theo.

@TheoFaber 2 жыл бұрын

@hafibeat834 Жыл бұрын

This may be "real analog", but the signal is highly degraded by a lossy LF/HF-Modulation. It will never sound as good as a PCM-Recording.

@yobleenm 2 жыл бұрын

Hallo Theo mijn naam is Michaël en ik leer heel veel van u filmpje, ik hoop dat ik eens met u in gesprek zou kunnen gaan want ik ben al enorm lang op zoek die kan (of kan mij leren) een VCR te repareren. Ik heb 1 svhs vcr van Panasonic en 2 schouder analoge videocamera's die beide ratelen en gebrekkig zijn. Misschien wil jij me helpen of tips geven. Bedankt voor het lezen

@TheoFaber 2 жыл бұрын

Hallo Michaël. Wat leuk dat je zo gemotiveerd bent om te leren en evt moeite ergens in te stoppen. Maar moet je teleurstellen, ik heb eenvoudig de tijd niet om je wegwijs te maken in de (video) elektronica. Dat zou hetzelfde zijn, als je even leren om een mooi schilderij te maken. Als je specifieke en gerichte vragen hebt, ga dan naar een PB of e-mail me. Ik maak gewoon tijd, om je vragen te beatwoorden. Maar reparaties neem ik niet (meer) aan, ook gewoon tijdgebrek. Je kunt ook op Facebook de groep; van beeldbuis tot flatscreen proberen. Miss heeft iemand anders tijd?