Changed all of the above. Put a 15lb spring in it

@@puma51921 Thanks for the reply. Did the 15lb spring make a difference? I'm tempted to try this myself. I just picked up the 5" steel frame match and it came with a steel guiderod, but I cannot find the spring weight of this thing. It feels lighter, but it could just be the fact that it's a steel gun. Might swap springs and test it. Thanks again for the comment.

15 pound spring makes a little difference but I use the stock spring, shoot about 1200 rounds a month, trying to get from A class to master classification in uspsa. Just shoot stock because it doesnt really matter, doesnt really cause you to have to shoot slower or less accurately thats just not how lightening the recoil spring works. It takes very little to just get used to the stiffer spring, and I actually prefer the quicker return feeling it gives you. Thats largely personal preference similar to whether you prefer the feel of 115 or 147 grain bullets. As far as sights, probably smart on walthers part since everyone has different preference of iron sights. I would only ever use a fiber front and black rear and im particular about the blade width. Most other people probably want night sights. This way people can just get the ones they prefer. And for the plate, I got my free plate in like 12 days, put an SRO on it and have had no issues with it for the last 11 months. Switched from an M&P to these PDPs about a year ago and its been great. Groups better than my 5" M&P did also.

@@alexhanson8697 thanks for sharing your experience. We ended up getting a stainless guiderod with a 15lb and 13lb spring and after testing, I have to agree that the stock 18lb spring seems to be the best spring for returning to zero. I was pretty surprised by this. It just feels "right" in the firearm. It's almost like Walther knew what they were doing when they decided on that spring weight. Lol. I found my double taps were a bit different with all spring weights too. We have to go back and do some more testing to make a final determination. As to the sights and polymer guiderod, when we reviewed the PDP Pro SD it was $850, and as you know it is optic ready and supressor ready. At that price the plastic sights were kind of an insult, not only because they are plastic, but because you cannot co-witness to them or use them properly with a supressor. They could have put just about anything else on the gun that served as more than a placeholder and I would have been satisfied, but what they did was turn their $850 gun into a $1,000 firearm. Anyway, that's why I changed the title of the review to "outdated". The firearm can now be had for $650, so changing out the sight or guiderod is easier to justify. It's a hard gun to beat at $650, even if you do have to put some sights on it, or upgrade to a stainless guiderod. Thanks again for stopping by. We appreciate you insight and feedback.

Thank you. We appreciate the feedback and support. Comments like yours keep us going. Working on Beretta APX Toblerone Combat and APX A1 Tactical reviews now. Lot's of supressor goodness, if you like that sort of thing. Thanks again. Hope to see you in the next one.

Glad you enjoyed it

Glad you enjoyed it. Much more to come. Thank you.

That sounds like a great deal. We have a friend who changes up his collection like changing underwear. Same basic scenario, he gets bored with his purchase and all his friends can get like new guns, with upgrades at a great price. Can't underestimate the used market. Lot's of great deals out there. Thanks.

Thanks for the comment. As we said in the review, it's an excellent shooting and ergonomic firearm, but most reviews don't talk about pros and cons of firearms, and they rarely compare cost, features, overall bang for the buck, or point out shortcomings with a firearm. We try to cover the gambit, and with this being our first ever review, it was trial and error. We were also mostly speaking to new shooters and first time gun buyers that may not be aware of what a carry/home defense gun will need, or should be equipped with. For those of us who own a lot of firearms, we have many other guns to use a reference points for cost, features, shootability, etc. This gun actually came down in price quite a bit since we made the video, which makes it a much better bang for the buck, and makes putting new sights and new guide rod in not sting so much. Overall, we love this gun. We have multiple springs for it and the Harrington comp. Great gun. When it was $800, it was a bit pricy for the amount of things you have to put into it, but at its current price of $650, it kind of in a league of its own with its feature set. Thanks again for watching and commenting. We appreciate it.

@The2AExperiment I thought your review was excellent and that was a very solid point to make. I just wanted to make the point that I already viewed this gun as a starter gun as presented. But it's a rare review that makes the point you made, so they fail to give a good information to people who, like me, and presumably you as well, are willing to invest in a gun as long as we know ahead of time what the issues are. We just want to know. Most of us have some kind of budget we have to respect, and having uncertainty as to what something will cost to work as you want is unpleasant.

The PDPs are nice firearms, but they can be money pits. The good thing is, they have dropped in price, to the high 600s. Makes it a much better proposition. We recently picked up a ZRTS guide rod and some springs for ours, and a compensator. We are excited to try out the new parts, because the gun screams "I can be better". The Caniks are less expensive and are ready to go, right out of the box. They are based on Walthers, so you get a lot of the same good features. It's hard to go wrong with either firearm, just depends on what you want it for, and what you are willing to spend/upgrade. Thanks for stopping by and commenting. Good luck with your purchase.

Thanks for the comment. We really love the gun too, and we did an update video about it. We liked it so much, we actually bought the steel frame match. Same plastic sights. Walther makes a great firearm, but they could certainly make it perfect with just a few tweaks. Thanks again.

At that price it is a steal. Because I like the damn thing so much, I actually broke down and bought new sights and a plate. I promised I wouldn't do it, but the gun really is nice, especially under $700. Congrats.

Thanks for watching and commenting. The PDP Pro SD has come down in price, so buying sights is not as painful. They really are nice firearms, but if you are looking for an amazing supressor host, the Beretta APX A1 Tactical comes ready to go out of the box, and for half the price. It is our favorite polymer supressor host, by far. Really underrated.

I have the PDP Pro and the thing is absolutely amazing but I cannot compare it to a standard PDP, I’ve not shot one. I will tell you the trigger is about the best trigger I’ve ever fired in a gun straight out of the box. I don’t keep track of how many rounds I’ve put through my PDP Pro but I’ve not had a single issue, it’s been flawless. I also put a Holosun SCS on my Pro, which directly mounts on the firearm without the need for a plate. I’ll live with the plastic sights, or replace them, the gun is phenomenal. I’ve seen dozens of reviews, this one and one other are the only negative reviews I’ve seen, most say the PDP Pro is probably the best out of the box gun on the market.

@@kr5824 We like the PDP Pro SD too. This isn't meant to be a negative review, it's meant to discuss the pros and cons. We clearly state it's an excellent firearm, but Walther passes costs onto the consumer for parts that should be on the gun. That's not negative, it's true. Also, the gun was over $800+ when we did this video, so we looked at total cost of the firearm, which puts it into a whole nother category. The gun is now $650, so it's a much better bang for the buck. Again, we really like it and we even did a followup on it, and we have more to come as we have been testing it with new springs and we have the Harrington comp. It's a great shooter. Thanks for commenting.

@@The2AExperiment Thanks for the reply, I actually paid less than $600 for my PDP Pro 4.6, so I probably found more value than those who paid a higher price.

We appreciate it. Hopefully, with honesty an logic, we can help free at least one consumer from their influencer induced, Stockholm syndrome.

Who said it was trash? You clearly did not watch the video. I said it's pretty great, but to get the mostt out of it you need to add money to an already expensive gun. And most of the parts should already be on a gun set up like this. People can keep making excuses for Walther, that's your choice, and if you only want to shoot it with irons, without a can, you will be set. However, that's not what most people are buying this gun for, which is why I point out some things big guntube fails to discuss. I actually like the gun. If you watched the video you would know that. We even did a followup vid, pointing out how nice it shoots, and I ended up buying the steel frame version last week, so I never said the gun is trash, only the sights and the business practice. Thanks for the comment.

Thanks for the info. Definitely accurate. We picked up the ZRT fluted guide rod for this, and a 13lb and 15lb spring. Haven't tested them yet. Also picked up a Harrington Arms Comp. All will be tested soon. We did get the 5" SF Match. We reviewed it. You should check it out. We also just picked up the ZRT Long Stroke guide rod for the SF, as viewers keep saying it changes the gun. Testing it soon. Thanks for watching and commenting. It helps the channel a lot.

Thanks for sharing. I have seen a few videos directly comparing the Echelon to the standard PDP, but not the PDP Pro SD. The Echelon is definitely duty focused, and has a more Glock-ish grip angle. I've only held and dry fired the Echelon, but i haven't shot them. Seems like a solid platform, but the Walther dynamic trigger is nicer, to me, and I prefer the Walther grip angle. You can always get around the sights issue with the Holosun SCS, but it is a really small window, so you lose it under rapid fire. I was just looking in the IPSC rulebook for production optics division and it says replacement springs are allowed as long as they match the original configuration. I haven't shot IPSC, but it sounds like you can change out the recoil system for another captured guiderod. Some Glock polymer guide rods/springs work in the PDP, and you can get lighter than 18lbs, so that may be an option. That's just my interpretation though, so better to ask an IPSC shooter. It also says aftermarket plates and sight are allowed, so that's good, but magwells are not allowed, so kind of a waste. Interestingly, the Echelon isn't on the approved fireams list yet. Either way, we appreciate you sharing with us, and it was fun going through the IPSC rulebook. Good luck in your decision.

It really is a great shooting gun, and now that it's come down in price, it's hard to beat. We prefer tge Pro SD 5.1" to the steel frame 5" version. Thanks for the parts list too. That death grip sounds interesting. We are still building ours out.

What color were trying to get, an all black?

There are also a lot of people who will shoot it suppressed, but the bigger issue is, not being able to co-witness your optic. Also, they give you one plate, after you order it, not multiple plates. It took about 4 weeks to get it. That's why we went with the Holosun SCS, no plate needed and you can see over a supressor and co-witness to the sights. Thanks for tge comment.

That's a good price. What guide rod and sights did you go with?

@@The2AExperiment ZR tactical capture guide rod (17 lbs) and XS sights orange ring green middle night sights

@@bigboots6114 thanks for the info. I just bought tge 5" PDP Steel Frame Match. It needs some parts. Will be doing a review soon, waiting on the new plate, sights, and SRO. At least the guide rod is stainless steel in the steel frame. I think it is lighter too, probably 16 or 17 lbs. I still may try the ZR Tactical spring though. Thanks again.

@@The2AExperiment thanks for responding and putting out this video

Thanks for commenting. It's nice to know you love your Walther, but no one was "playing to the algorithm" lol. At the time this video was made the Pro SD was $800+ dollars, which is why it was overpriced. It's now around $600, which is a great price, even with having to replace the plastic, trash sights and guiderod. So, if the video were made today, I wouldn't call it over priced, but I would surely let people know about the junk parts they will most likely want to replace. As you said, Walther has been around a long time, and they surely know what they are doing....especially when it comes to making money. If you think they put plastic parts on the PDP for your benefit, you're delusional. It is a cost cutting measure, which the consumer has to correct. Unfortunately, Walther doesn't care about you the way you care about them. Lastly, you may have missed it, but we said it was an excellent firearm with some shortcomings that have to be corrected by the consumer. That's a pretty damn acurate assessment. However, will have to go back and put up a new thumbnail and title since the price dropped by $200+ dollars. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. We appreciate it.

Thanks. That's our first emoji comment. I'm glad it wasn't the poop emoji. Thanks for watching.

I get it. This really is a great shooting polymer pistol, but it comes "incomplete" out of the box, and it's not cheap. By the time you make it the way it should have been out of the box, you are in another price bracket, like Sig AXG or steel frame M&P teritory. The XC is $3900, for a Vet, but $4300 otherwise. That's a huge leap in price. I will be doing an XC video in the near future. Thanks for the comment and for checking out the video.

I bought this gun and sold it. Why because my Canik METE SFT is just as good for hundreds less. Yes the dynamic trigger was slightly better but not enough to justify the money. You can pop a holosun on a the Canik and never miss.😂🤷‍♂️ so I sold the Walther bought a Glock 21 with a new optic and still had money left over for ammo.😂 lot of these polymer guns are overpriced in my opinion.

@@sway696 the Caniks are nice pistols. They have great triggers and come with everything out of the box, for a great price. It's really hard to beat them. The Walthers feel better in my hand, and they shoot well. It's just too bad they started skimping with plastic parts with the PDP line. I have been debating getting the Canik Steel Frame. It comes with everything. Thanks for watching and for the comment.

We really like it too, even with its sights/guide rod shortcomings. And at It's current price, it's a really great gun. Thanks for watching and commenting. We appreciate it.

Your 2 cents are appreciated. We did a follow-up vid talking about the shootability of the gun. We really like it, so it's disappointing they decided to use plastic parts on a pricey gun, with this much potential. This could have been near perfect, if they chose some different appointments. Thanks for the comment.

I guess I can see why you may think that, but you're wrong. My gripe isn't with the shootability, it's the business practice of charging a lot for a gun knowing it is full of plastic, place holder parts. It's principle. I actually like the gun and your comment proves my point. People accept and defend getting taken advantage of, and most Channels aren't thinking of the everyday shooter. Thanks for the comment.

@@The2AExperiment The Pro has at least $400 worth of upgrades over a standard PDP, but only costs about $200 more. And no one is complaining that the PDP is overpriced. Quite the opposite. You really aren’t making any sense about the cost of this firearm.

You obviously didn't watch the entire video. I stated the price jump from a regular PDP is made up by the trigger cost alone. Problem is the normal PDP is over priced, therefore, adding more money to it makes this over priced. You already said, as I did in the video, $300 of upgrades to square it away. Now it's a $1100 polymer gun. M&P 2.0 needs nothing out of the box, $500, Canik mete $450, SFX $400, nothing needed. FN 509, $550, nothing needed, M&P steel Frame Competitor, $800, and so on. I'm glad you like the PDP. I like it too, but definitely overpriced and overhyped compared to the rest of the market. You missed the whole point of the video. That's ok though, we all have different opinions. Thanks.

@@The2AExperiment None of those guns except the SFX is comparable to the PDP Pro. And you listed it about $250 less than its current price tag! I have the SFT Pro which is the most comparable and $580.. (And neither of those include the extra mag you get with the PDP Pro, so add $40). A regular PDP is only around $530. I paid 730 for the Pro. That’s not overpriced buddy. But to each his own.. maybe someday I can afford a staccato, or at least one of their hats.

@@jnananinja7436 prices change on firearms, but either way, you are still missing the point. Plus, you appear to think the Staccato has something to do with my feelings on the gun, which is wholly inaccurate. It's simple math, as well as what else is available on the market. Especially after you turn the PDP into a $1100 polymer firearm, by adding the parts it should have come with from the factory. You need to watch the whole video and all your questions will be answered, as to why I think it is overpriced. Anyway, I hope you get a Staccato one day, but that gun is overpriced too, especially now that the market is saturated. The XC also has it's own issues. Unfortunately, I had to buy the gun to get the hat, so when you get yours, you will get a hat too. I'm pulling for you, and I mean that. It's been fun. Thanks for the engagement.

Nice hat isn't it. A little overpriced. Thanks for the comment.

It looks like prices are coming down. Definitely a better proposition at $616. Now you are only at about $900 with $200 in upgrades and tax, for a polymer gun. Better than $1100. Thanks for the info.

It's hard to beat a 2011, but most people will never have one, due to the cost. Polymer guns certainly have their place, and the PDP line could be one of the best out of the box, if Walther stopped skimping on sights and guide rods. At least the price is coming down on the PDP line. I picked up the steel frame match, so we'll see how it stacks up. I may run it againt my Staccato XC for fun. Thanks for the comment.

I got if for free. I only had to spend $4,000 on a gun to get it. LOL.

I agree about the Staccato plate. As far as I know, only the XC comes with plates. They are direct mount for Delta Point though. Still no excuse. I will be doing an XC vid in the near future. Thanks for the comment.

It was a good gift. I actually like the gun. I just want people to be aware of what they actually get when they buy one of these. Thanks for the comment.

The new models don't have that issue. I have the Pro SD and the 5" Steel Frame Match and the triggers re-engage after being out of battery. I think Walther fixed that as soon as the problem was detected. Thanks for the comment.

Thanks for the update!

Lol. Stop watching. It's free. Plenty of shills you can go watch instead who will only talk about the good things. Also, this clearly says "outdated" as the gun came down in price significantly since the video was made. It's a much better bang for the buck now. Thanks for the comment.

Not sure red dots are a fad. I believe they are here to stay. My eyes are not what they used to be and optics made shooting a lot easier than trying to focus on a blurry front sight. I agree everyone should be proficient with irons as well. Even with the generic sights on the PDP, it was easy to shoot 1" groups at 10 yards. We honestly shot it better with irons than with the optic. We were both surprised. I think I discussed it in the video. Thanks for checking out the video and commenting.

Then maybe you should hand crank your car then too. Red dots are not a fad. Are you 100 years old?