My god, you’re right

Atleast he takes his time to do it but wouldn't that just mean its even more thought out and better done?

Also, Shadow (Stalker) said to Alad, that he'll get him in 2nd Dream and Shadow Debt operation happened where we kill Stalker Acolytes

My my Lotus, you make a fine villain

@@Acym_ I’m guessing you mean Hunhow, right?

She did technically say she saw nothing, the same as how Cephalon Cy describes the reliquary drive, I think she is telling the truth in part, I assume she recognizes the danger but can’t comprehend what she is looking at, like staring at an empty space in reality, a “void”.

you make a great point bar one aspect - void energy isn't why Lotus became an Eidolon, it seems that Eidolons are a natural state for Sentients as they cling to life, trying to be whole again.

Aka the usual eldrich don't know what that fack your looking at excsistance.

@@brokenlord3218 Yeah pretty much, anyone aside from the tenno seem to either think the "man in the wall" isn't real, or just describe it as "nothing" or some sort of impossibility, while we as the tenno actually see it, and interact with it.

@@graymulholland9988 more to that, eidolons seem to have prior contact with orokin technology: the plains sentient had aquired some of the unum tower blue kuva before gara exploded it, and natah's "network" is pretty much conected to the moon structure...may be just conjecture or really a thing.

"How can you kill a god? What a grand and intoxicating innocence!"

You kill a "god" by showing polytheism to be a fallacy. People often use the term to apply to powerful beings, not realizing the truest scope of the word. The one true God is omnipotent, omniscient, and so far beyond the scope of reckoning that entities like The Man In The Wall would shit themselves and die in His presence.

@@jaffarebellion292 You beat me to it. I was about to comment "We should ask Nerevar about that."

actually, concept art for the Duviri indicates they're Orokin Remnants of some kind, or they're a form of Life in the Void that has tried to copy the Orokin to some degree, nothing really indicates they're solely made up of the tenno survivers from drifter's side, they probably live among them for sure, but they're not the origin of the Duviri group

what if the paradox is this convergence of all timelines, hence why we saw that kid with the shotgun, that weird Dax dude with the horse and why everything seems to be all messed up in a form of stasis?

@@bloodprince9779 Indeed, I had forgotten the concept art. But hey, before being Tenno, they were basically Orokins children. Maybe they just tried to rebuild a society based on their previous one ^^ And omg, what if the adults crew and the parents are still alive in this version, all twisted/hollowed and stuff like the Dax ? Oh, the drama~ ! x)

I believe the Entrati mention the Duviri in one of their dialogues. So odds are that they are a prominent Orokin family just like they were. They might even have been in charge of the Zariman and were on the ship when it got stranded. So they had to work with the others like the Drifter in order to survive.

The ones that didn't accepted the deal are still in the ten-0 on the paradox, like how the drifter mentioned "i should've stayed in duviri"

My feeling exactly. When the operator Was cast into the void by ballas, i was expecting parvos at the other end offering me a Deal

dude was probably sitting in that dimension eating medium rare steak salted with pure rubedo

Yeah, he talked a lot of sh!t at the end of Deadlock Protocol about combatting the impending Sentient threat, only to do absolutely NOTHING when it hit

Even worse, a hand that we WILL hold.

​@@kadinnui2282 I think a better phrasing that fits with the tagline of the eternalism philosophy is "[...]a hand that we have and will hold". If the tomorrow is equal to the present absolute, then logically the past must also be equal to the present absolute, and so the events between the Zariman 10-0 and the Lotus's restoration must be occurring simultaneously.

It might be that Wally didn't have a *real* physical form to shake with. BigWally at the end doesn't say Jahu/Form

he seems like a chaos entity, i’d hope that’s what they’re going for feeding off of despair, agony, dread, death, fear, and anger the ultimatums of chaos

But its weird being as that hasn't happened yet so the hand could signify that the void entity is indeed pulling the strings

One thing that I haven't seen a lot of mentioned at all is the fact that the figure sitting on top of the wall has Lotus's head, but a different body.

@@ladaas9528 we see that during other quests too. We chase that same "Lotus Imp" through Lua, i believe, in one of the New War prologue quests, iirc

My first thought on seeing Lotus' hand smoking after Wally flew off was that she made the same deal that we did, "I can save them." We appear to safe from the Sun and Praghasa is apparently no longer a threat after the portal closes?

chu CANT sit tere telling meh tat lotus DIDNT see TMITW as we did wen shes alrdy made the statement saying she knows aswell as alrdy seen him 😒

It's possible her saying "Nothing" wasn't in a full literal sense, but a metaphysical sense. Considering the game it now throwing at us quantum theories and mechanics (Gravity, Programming, Chaos, and Spacetime, among likely many, many others). As in, she saw something, but her mind couldn't quite grasp its concepts, and with how quantum programming (supposedly) works, her mind settled on "nothing" as a way for her to describe what she saw. Of course, I might be talking out of my ass and be totally wrong, but that'll only be revealed in time.

I think in the duviri trailer, the enemy was a skeletal or zombified dax soldier. If that's true, then the horse is of orokin design and might just be A horse to the orokin and may not really be anything special

Hoew do you think horses got to Duviri in the first place? Wandered out of the colony ship

You will be dissapointed

And I hope that some are drifter style missions!

maybe not sentients (as it's possible we're on their good side, unless there are gonna be some mischievous sentients) but possibly narmers, except no of course they didn't.

new war isnt actually over yet

@@robanihh4fun oh? How so?

Perhaps when she said there were too many voices, she wasn't just talking about Natah, Lotus and Margulis.

it wasn't a creepy smile, she was looking at her child whom she had just saved - finally with them and safe again

Nah man. That's a wally smile.

@@securatyyy I found a high-rez clip of the the scene (wow, by the way. what a difference!) and you might be right. the wall was coming at her, the the smile is kind of joker-y, kind of not; but also our warframe had green void wisps coming off it. Maybe it means Lotus/Natah can use transference like we do now. Personally, seeing Lotus/Natah fight would be cool. i hope she isn't "possessed" but rather "infected" and we would have to save her again or fight with her against a new force. Also, might be just me, but I'd love a romance Lotus scenario to be real. Incest jokes aside, the drifter is not a child, both characters go above and beyond for each other, always been there, been through their respective hells only to find each other, and are more likely than anyone else to understand each other. Why not let the game and characters grow? I love a bold plot choice. it would also be an interesting paradox in which there exists a version of a platonic parent-child relationship and a two-individuals-against-all-odds relationship. I know that the former is supposedly a more pure form of love, but i was always a sucker for plots in which people do extraordinary things for each other because they come to love each other so much through a mutual journey that they practically merge souls. Plus, it's less of a trope, in my opinion.

@@Jackie_Tikki_Tavi Eh dunno. A romance would feel kind of out of place in the kinda nihilistic setting of Warframe. Especially with Lotus who has professed herself as our mother this entire time. Plus, if in a game that is finally going towards more choices in its stories it would be really weird to be given only the Lotus as a romantic option. I'd rather see another Operator in that role. Kinda like finding another one like us and having them around in the Orbiter and on-call for missions could be a lot of fun. But again, I don't think it fits with the setting.

at least it isn’t ronald mcdonald 😂

Or how the man in the wall may be some Lovecraftian god, like Nyarlathotep the Crawling Chaos.

Or you know Warhammer.....The Zaramen and the Event Horizon sound exactly like what happens when a ship either enters the warp without a geller field or the field fails in transit. Wally kinda reminds me of Tzeentch too, though that could be the Lovecraft basis that most of these things are inspired/based on.

@@drafty9580 Since Warhammer takes inspiration from Lovecraft for many Warp and Chaos things, I'd say Mitw is more Lovecraftian than Warhammery.

@@drafty9580 the void is basically the warp

Also, Wally is a manifestation of the Indifference, and the horror of Lovecraft is predicated on the cruel indifference of the cosmos towards Humanity.

though its possible that the Moon Presence was only doing that because it got asked to

Then let me become an eldritch being like I did in Bloodborne. Grant us eyes... GRANT US EYEEEEEEESSSSSSS... *Becomes an eyeless slug*

Well, it’s apparently what allows us to use the rails.

In Albrecht's Vitruvians he mentions multiple "digits" having been severed. For some reason Wall Man is only missing one, but the Orokin could have ended up with several fingers powering multiple ships.

Cephalon Cy says similar things when interacting with the Reliquary Drive. For whatever reason, it seems like some people can’t see the Man in the Wall.

@@AlexPBenton because they haven’t struck a deal with the MiTW the operator on the other hand did 😂

I think they see him but they don't see him. They just can't comprehend him. So they see nothing.

@@AlexPBenton Cephalons are unable to understand the Void as a whole, they perceive it as a vast plane of literal Nothingness. They are aware it exists but arent able to comprehend it

@@reap06 How about the lotus? She’s a sentient, not a cephalon.

I only think that was for new war so they could put all resources in it so it could get done "in time". I would assume that when vacation and stuff is over then they will be back on the grind with duviri. Though that is not to say that its going to be done any time soon, it might first be done in a year or more.

@@Subjective0 "or more" is more like it. Knowing DE's track record. I wouldn't hold my breath, boys.

Duviri was originally supposed to the orokin plane, home to the infested. For various reasons, they decided to shelve it, and the story line of the infested and the orokin split. Now, deimos is home to the infested and they are again considering, or at least hinting at, duviri.

@@aaronscott7467 at what point was Duviri going to be infested? You can't just make shit up, chief

Don't give them any more ideas please....

@@ThEruptorX That's a fantastic idea, though. More Sentient weapons, AND potential Sentient nemesis crewmates.

@@Drakrylos but nothing unique

@@doomestee Doesn't have to be.

Ya and we can't only kill these archon liches in operator/drifter form!

Ballas opened it by using Praghasa. When he kissed Natah, he stole the rest of her power from her, including her Sentient power to control the Murex Fleet, including Praghasa. Praghasa’s original purpose was to consume and rebuild itself, and Ballas is shown to want to use it at the end of the New War to consume the Sun and open a Void Portal to Tau. Since Praghasa is able to Void Jump, and Ballas stole Natah’s power to control the fleet, something only she could do as “The Queen of the Aphids,” he was able to summon a void portal at will using his newfound control over the Sentient Armada.

I wonder if Ordis will ever be returned to his original form...

If you're down for Mecha sized Warframes I am too. And to be clear I do not mean necramechs. I mean Gundam sized (or bigger) Warframes.

@@chadknapp3195 Railmechs.

@@jazzyj7834 what is a railmech

It's about to become Gurren Lagann up in here.

Then why did Stalker call him out at one point? IIRC Stalker identified him as an Orokin(?) and Alad took that as his cue to go into hiding. Why would Stalker target him as an Orokin rather than calling him out directly as a Sentient?

@@Solais1019 As the tenno says, corpus are like the orokins. Selfish and greedy. Since they act the same, Stalker might concider Salad like one, since he is greedy as fuck as well as selfish.

if i'm remembering correctly, the infestation CAN'T affect sentients. by virtue of having been taken by the mutalyst strain, wouldn't that prove Alad's not a sentient?

Or Salad found a way to get it to affect him i dunno. Who knows what happens in his brain

He was able to turn Infested though. Either this isn’t true or Alad V can make Infested that can actually infest Sentients.

Yeah, in other words, from what I gathered is that to become a sentient they would lose themselves. So did Margulis lose herself to the void and become the Lotus and in turn made a deal to protect the Tenno.

Maybe by “nothing,” she literally means the void - “You behold an absence” sort of thing

I also thought it a bit like that. The Lotus wondered a bit how to phrase it, but in the end said "nothing" - both not wanting us to know (to protect us, thinking we didn't indeed see anything) and saying she actually saw the "nothingness" that the MitW would bring if allowed to pass through to our dimension in its complete form. To me she basically sounded surprised to how the same word would work both ways, telling us the truth and at the same time keeping us in the dark.

I like this theory

I think your looking too deep into it. Wally is a god who exists beyond time and space, to them this is all just a game for their own amusement and they were wearing Lotus' hat for 2 reasons. 1: they can and 2: to remind the Tenno that they are beyond them and that they are the only reason they are even alive at all.

This is somewhat right, I guess? Since Warframe follows Eternalism, the Drifter is actually a paradox of the Operator: same being but different timelines occupying one space. The Operator is the Tenno that accepted the deal with Wally, while the Drifter was the one who didn't and ended up getting stuck in Duviri and Ten-0 😅

@@maynardvizcarra3982 I feel like we’re talking about different things. I’m talking specifically about the pair we see in the Duviri trailer, and that during that quest they’ll be at the age of the other as they are now. Not the general relation between them.

@@Black-Light OH!!! Ok, yes that clears that up 😆 I apologize for that 😆😆

Still wouldn't explain if the tenno is the younger version of the drifter from the paradox that he mentioned to Ordis that he didn't have void powers, "not yet anyways". Makes me think that this drifter is the version that didn't shake hands with the man on the wall tenno tapping at the window in the classroom

@@TheWindash I think when the Drifter said "not yet" MAYBE they meant they knew they'd eventually sync with their paradox(Operator) and become one where they can just interchange between each other

a chaos entity yea it’s sounds perfect for the Man in the Wall

Why would we? Only Alad makes Amalgams

@@magearamil8626 nothing says the sentients couldn't learn how to do them since Erra even made a warframe with sentient traits and they turned Ballas into a amalgam-like being.

@@magearamil8626 well the status of alad v post-new war is unclear but whos to say he isnt under the effects of the veil? Hell he might even be under Narmer willingly cause he gets to experiment with sentient tech, the veil and grineer

The Man in the Wall that we know of is most likely Lohk - the Void

Being a bit generous with 7 years...

@@SuperAnimeFever 10… surely it wouldn’t be more right…right?

Unfortunately, they spent years developing a single cinematic quest with no addition for veterans. Once you beat the quest, that's it. Now you just sit and wait several more years until Duviri. The player counts are not going to last. I hate to say it but they seriously need to adopt a seasonal model like Destiny 2. It feels wrong to wait so many years just to finish everything in a few hours and then have nothing to do.

@@s_t_r_a_y_e_d this update would've been great if it had more unique post quest things to do. Like maybe drifter quests or allowing you to play as the other factions in a pvp mode no warframe allowed. As it stands it's the same shit similar paint

@@s_t_r_a_y_e_d I kinda agree, a lot of effort is spent on quests like this but the gameplay and goals almost always stay the same. There's been no challenge in Warframe for years as we powercreeped level cap enemies, the gameplay has been stale for so long, missions haven't evolved at all for years, at the end of the day playing Warframe is always the same thing. I truly wish DE was a bigger and more serious group, they may look nice in devstreams but they also take too long to bring updates without much content and it truly hurts our experience as players.

It would make sense, since if he is chaos he would 100% be a lot more involved with living beings than others

This is some percy jackson dark souls shit

Yes! Maybe not other lords of *void,* but maybe lords of the other requiem words?

Hmm I think each of the Great Ones in Warframe reigns over a facet of reality - i.e. a dimension. For now we've only met the MitW, at least "directly". Go back to the moment right after the handshake: exactly 10 operators are shown dying (or at least suffering? not sure). If you know a bit of quantum physics theories, supposedly there are 10 dimensions in our universe - plus one dimension for Time. I believe the number of Operators shown in the cutscene was actually on purpose, symbolizing the imminent fall of the walls between all dimensions/realities. Of course, the concept of "dimensions" in quantum physics is not completely akin to the concept of "dimensions/realities" in sci-fi culture, but DE has always been keen on utilizing wide-spread lore and theories and twisting it as well as quoting it in their own way. SO! while the MinW is symbolized by the Requiem Word "Fass" (probably?), we still haven't directly seen or heard of any of the other 9 (or 10?) Great Ones - and for one of them we're still even missing the Requiem Word! Imho, after appearing at the end of the New War the MitW was quite clearly calling upon the 8 other "named" Great Ones, as if he was issuing a challenge to them, "look where I am, mofos! what'chu gonna do 'bout it?" - not super-sure about the not-named one. Idk, food for thought I guess. Edit: couple typos

He also claims to not see anything inside the drive, and seems disturbed by it… a lot like the Lotus at the end of the quest.

@@AlexPBenton very true. He perceives it as "a colour you have never seen before. Imagine it. That is where you are."

I was looking at that during the war like heeeey he's miss i n g a f i n g e r O h so that's the original owner

Yep

It's been suspected for a while, now we have confirmation.

It's also been hinted that multiple Railjacks existed in the heyday. It may be the one finger, but overlaid into reality multiple times through dimensional technology, allowing it to exist in multiple locations as many times as needed? It is a paradoxical entity in itself. Or, perhaps, since Orokin "grow" a lot of their stuff apparently, maybe they found a way to clone or otherwise copy this finger?

Multiple beings Possibly? Idk

Also the wall is missing like 3 fingers. 1 on the zariman, one on the tempestarii and now one on ours, but the layered reality is also possible

yeah, I'm in the same boat regarding the flashback

This is exactly how i interpreted what happened too.

Falling into the void flipped the coin, getting blasted at by eidolon void energy fused the sides, landing on either side at the same time.

This sounds more accurate. IIRC, one area was obsessed with something called the "Twin paradox" but the "Twin Paradox" is actually a pretty crap analogy & useless. It's not a paradox when it's two different people, nor really is that even all that interesting. That's simply normal time passage & rate differentials. It's only a paradox when it's the SAME. So I'd honestly assume the Drifter would actually be something tied to being some kind of singularity point. A divergent point of self that's accessible in all manners of time. That makes far more sense. Especially considering in lead up to this, Protea was released.

The word Duviri references duality, as many Orokin followed, the dual existence of the void being mirror-like. This mirror in practicality can be used to move between spaces, but literally can reflect possible other sides. We can freely move about our side, the reflection moves freely on the other. How many reliquary drives were built to steal the free movement through the side. We don't have the only void fairing railjack after all. We just have the original relic(they could have learned to clone it). Perhaps Wally's struggle was to return what was stolen, destroying any mirror that interfered, and chasing those darned kiddos off the lawn. As Vor says we are trespassors. Maybe even the kuva, the old blood, is stolen, providing transferance of self by reflecting ones self.

But accordingly she, in all her forms but the original, is a sentient and she did say she had seen nothing. As she would have had to lose herself, become sentient, to transport and she did. Which makes you wonder about yourself. Maybe she lost herself to save the Tenno. Acting, again, accordingly to protecting the Tenno, your character, at the end of the new war.

I did Nira first, loved that room

Lotus was a total man in the wall atheist in the chains of harrow quest.

I think you right but I think the operator is the one that struck the deal that's how we got void powers the drifter told man in the wall to get fucked and never got out.

The Drifter was the one that did NOT strike the deal. Thats why he/she didnt have powers through most of the quest. The cutscene was our operator finally remembering what exactly happened on the Zariman.

The stalker was just a soldier/body guard to the orikin royalty and hunts the Tenno for killing them.

Concerning the first line you said... Does anyone remember one of Natah's lines in the Ropalolyst mission?

We know the Stalker is a tenno. In fact, his 'suit' is an Excalibur frame. Actually, him & his acolytes wanted revenge on the Tenno/Orokin for something they did, which is why Hunhow granted them their power, but it was never explained further and this was... 4+ years ago now?

@@xJokerzWild stalker was a low ranking soldier (probs a dax) that wanted revenge when the tenno slaughtered the orokin.

I think Stalker is just like umbra a men transform into a warframe that why he hate the tenno

Credit would have been appreciated though

@@bnightm yeah i didnt know what to think of the lotus in the end but that could be it, its so much theory and stretch from what we see but i really think those details are there for a reason

it’s uncanny isn’t it

I think the reason he needed to harvest the sun specifically wasn't because he was rebuilding the ship like how it eats other planets, but he was trying to generate enough energy to create a portal to tau (I assume all the red mirrors were supposed to become portals)

Ballas was also quite clear that the void are devil's. He was himself but he may very well had a point with the sun to those ends.

thats what i was thinking

so... we are now friends? or you'll chase me

That would have been pretty dope

Thats actually smart because if you kill the owl first you wont have to deal with him in the end.

@@thund3r682 but you have your warframe in the end. i had the owl at the end and i basically killed them within 10 seconds

I did owl and snake, aka what I felt were really hard lol

@@gault6546 True, But I like to do the hard stuff first so I don’t have to do it in the end. I did the wolf with my frame in the end and pretty much one shot with ash seeking shuriken and arca plasmor.

my first reaction to the Owl was: Ok the wolf looks nasty, whats with this one **demonic screeching** ....... ok back to the Snake-Lady.