Would great if you added maps during the video.

I knew a guy in college who is Libyan. During his first semester of his year study abroad he got so into on campus events, he didn't study much or do that many of his assignments, so he failed. Due to that he was removed from the study abroad program, that meant his student visa was revoked and he was deported. Shortly after the Civil War broke out. I heard nothing for about 3 months. Then a friend of his made his way to Egypt. There he went to Facebook and posted some updates tagging those who he knew had international friends (due to the internet blackout in Libya). About another 3 months later, the blackout was lifted. He had 3 posts, but 1 came across my newsfeed. He was shot at by 2 of Ghadaffi's troops while he was trying to keep them from taking a bridge his rebel group had taken. He's now a dental hygienist.

Saying Gaddafi was "brutally beaten" to death is a *bit* of an understatement

From Top Tens lists to cutting-edge world conflicts...you've crushed it Simon 👏

The odd international support in the Libyan civil war reminds me of the Congo civil war where multiple nations were oddly supporting other sides.

One major fact check: More than any other powers, the Libyan Civil Wars are one of the theatres of the "Cold War" between Erdogan's Turkey & Putin's Russia. Internationally, Turkey & Russia are the two players with the most skin in the game. So, the Warographics team severely underplayed Turkish involvement in Lybia.

I'm a Western part-time journalist who has been covering the Libyan quagmire for the past 3 years and my research on every new news update about the country is horrendously extensive because most actors' behaviors don't make much sense and they usually can't be fitted into a clear "good vs. bad" or "islamist vs. secular" or "east vs. west" pattern. It's usually local militias and individuals in it for their own gains, and the diversity of their alliances is just massive and unreasonable. Also, as most of the state's institutions have broken down or been divided among the militias, they speak with hundreds of different voices fueling local interests. This is why it's so complicated: There are no "sides", just constantly shifting alliances of individuals and groups, who are significant enough to make a difference in Libya, but not nearly significant enough to be identified without a looking glass. Also, most people don't care about Libya, even in Europe (except the Italians). These are the situations where peace becomes incredibly hard to commit to: many individual actors with shifting alliances, who therefore cannot be committed to a peace easily, because there's always this individual group who will refuse to support the peace or agree with that one other group they hate the most. You just can't herd cats. Also, by the way, the international backers sound more numerous than they actually are. Most countries accept the Western Tripoli government as legitimate since 2016, but they don't really have much influence except Turkey and Italy. Only the aforementioned backers of the East (Russia, Saudi-Arabia, Greece, France, Egypt, UAE) are really into it, and the extent of their backing is quite diverse. Egypt, Russia, France and the UAE have massive relevance, so does Italy and Turkey for the Western side, but everyone else is insignificant in Libya.

Quagmire in a Quagmire? Giggidy.

When Simon says "It's Quagmiring time", I know that he will Quagmire throughout the entire Libyan Civil Wars Quagmire in a Quagmire video. Truly the best Quagmire scene of all time, Bravo Simon 👏👏

This channel could probably get several videos out of the Syrian civil war

It is sad that KZfaq demonetization has left this topic under covered.

My friend was in Libya when Gaddafi fell (he's a mercenary). The stories he told me of miles long convoys trying to get out the country with only warlords guaranteeing safe passage. Arabs leading groups of blacks to be mass executed as Gaddafi got blacks to fight for him. That whole situation was messed up and 10 years later possibly even more messed up than before.

I think you need to use more graphics (animated maps for example), to really help with the explanation. Good video from the team though :)

Ah poor Peter😂 This is a Quagmire indeed.

Over a decade later, Khadafi is now seen as a moderate dictator, keeping the crazies in line.

The mention of the Benghazi attack reminded me of someone. A US diplomat called Sean Smith, known in EVE Online circles as Vile Rat was among those killed. In short, he was also a diplomat in the largest player organization in the game. Tens of thousands of players showed their respects in game after his death. With thousands of player owned structures renamed. If you search for his name on YT you can find more of the story.

Very well researched and presented. The quality of content on every one of Simon's channels speaks volumes about not only Simon himself but also the uber talented writers/visual artists he has hired to bring these stories to life. There hasn't been a day in the last few years where I'm not watching/listening to at least one video or podcast.

To me it seems like dictator governed countries, simply doesn’t function without a dictator 🤷‍♂️

The sheer amount of information I have absorbed to this human's voice. Thanks!

That’s a great deep dive on this war. Thanks for all the work you guys put into this documentary. And everything else you guys are putting out on here! Stay on it Simon. Great content!

Quagmire inside Quagmire? Giggity

You can’t tell me that Gaddafi doesn’t look like he’s playing in the World Series of poker in that picture from the intro

The Arab Spring was basically an unmitigated disaster with Lybia and Syria in particular being the worst examples amongst them and maybe only one or Two nations actually turning out better than they were before. It went so bad that supposedly some activist groups declared "The Era of the Revolution is Dead".

As a Libyan i couldn't have said it better myself i hope one day my country could come to peace

While a lot of people take the lesson of the Libyan Civil Wars as "we shouldn't get involved in North Africa and the Middle East," I feel like that's a way too simplistic reading of events. Rather, I think the message is more about the importance of supporting formerly authoritarian states in their transition to democracy. Gaddafi was going to die eventually; he was already pretty old when the Arab Spring happened and it was probably the best chance Libyans had of making sure the eventual transfer of power went their way. But after the death and destruction of the Civil War, the new government didn't have the boots on the ground capacity to maintain order and control during the rebuilding period. If foreign powers were really concerned about the Libyan people, they should have sent peacekeeping forces to help stabilize the situation until the Libyan military could reorganize itself. The US and NATO need to learn that while drone strikes are easier and less risky for them, there's a tangible reassurance that being able to physically see those helping to maintain order that aerial bombardments can never replace. You can't half-ass these sorts of things: you either have to be willing to go all in when staging an intervention or stay out of it entirely, there's no middle ground

we appreciate your hard work

I love these videos. As they are and as they will evolve. Fantastic, entertaining, informative. I hope my love isn't misplaced.

Anyone who watched Game of Thrones can understand what is going on in Libya.

Love these long videos, I hate when just the surface of the conflict or history is talked about

Lesson of this story: never give up your nuclear weapons.

"The chaotic situation in Libya is definitely creating a threat. Libya now connects the jihadists in Africa with those in those in the Middle East and in Afghanistan. This could have been avoided." -- Yoweri Museveni

Rest in peace to those that passed away.

I am doing my best, thank you very much... :D

"We Came, We Saw... He Died! HAHAHAHA!" - Hilarious Clownton, 2011

great stuff!

Thanks

Who else but quagmire Giggedy giggedy

My name is Peter. I had this playing in the background while I was working on my PC. The 17:06 point in the video freaked me out.

That blazer is phenomenal

Freaking love this channel

Do a follow up of how this led to more jihadist in north and west africa

Simon please please make a podcast for warographics and just upload the audio from your videos. -Someone who is driving across the ENTIRE US right now

Giggity

He confused Libya for Syria when he was talking about the air stricken

Reminds me of that family guy episode where Quagmire was in Libya.

Could you possibly do a video on the Liberian Civil war's? Or do a Biographics of Charles Taylor? I would greatly appreciate it.

For the comments here who think Simon is unnecessarily harsh to Gaddafi, British people specifically hate Gaddafi because of his involvement in the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 in 1988, killing 270 people. He's like an Al Qaeda terrorist to them so any facts about him giving healthcare and money to his people are irrelevant.

mega Quagmire talk...Simon!

What happens when a dictator is deposed? Power vacuum and a bloody civil war, or many

Hey Peter, remember the time the UN authorized a no-fly-zone over my country?

Informative video about the very complicated situation in Libya.

At the time, I remember Gaddafi didn't want to use Petrodollars and instead wanted gold to be used as the currency for any oil exports bought from Libya. Soon after that Gaddafi was dead. I always wondered if refusing to use Petrodollars was the final straw for the US, as it would set a precedent that may threaten their interests.

lol love the Peter jokes across all the channels.

Did anyone else notice at 7:20 when he said Syria instead of Libya, wonder if that's a teaser for a future video lol 🤣

Giggidy

Might need a part 2...

Nice cleaned up edition of how Gaddafi was killed. Left out the bayonet suppository.

Very nice summary! Re which nations supported who ots simple... look at the oil fields ownerships and you have your answer. Eni (italy) and BP (UK) have 50% ownership of oil fields in the North, and Total (France) owns 50% of rhenoil fields in the south. Now see which countries are major investors in said companies and you can start building the list presented.

Who else but Quagmire

No mention of the combat knife slid fairly casually into his rectal area?

Gas is getting kinda expensive. Sounds like Libya, needs some freedom 😎

the struggle to monopolize violence..

29:24 I was not expecting the Powder Gangers to be a faction in this war. Holy crap.

Omg Quagmire you're during civil war in Libya that's hilarious

It’s crazy how Gaddafi took over Libya when he was 27 and without firing a single shot, to then see a Rebellion over throw him in a civil war is quite odd.

When Gaddafi said "I am the Quagmire" and turned into a Quagmire I knew this was the Family Guy Quagmire arc of all time, Bravo Vince Edit: Here before the ten gazillion third worlders say "muh American fault" when the UN literally authorized the no fly zone lmao

My heart breaks from the lives lost in these wars. Once stable nations in udder chaos, it is cruel. It humbles me when I think about my problems then realize parts of the world are still like this and will likely continue like this.

This KZfaqr is a quagmire, 100 channels and they all sulk. He mastered the art of looking for info on Google 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Me when Gaddafi doesn’t say “Giggity giggity” even though this is supposed to be a Quagmire

How did you know I was confused watching this? 👀

I want to know why on earth Simon hasn't got his own TV project yet as he's clearly very comfortable in front of the camera and he's also the most hardest working man on KZfaq definitely I mean the amount of top quality content that comes out from him is enormous! If I was in charge of the BBC or Channel 4 or whatever he'd be top of my list of presenters. Not only that but he comes across a really likable geezer with his tipicall British quick wit and humour. Who ever signs him up would have a serious asset with Simon. 🇬🇧👍

I often wonder if these nations with borders created by European powers at complete odds with who lives there would be better off dividing into smaller nations better equipped to self-govern if for no other reason than there being fewer internal factions seeking control. Mind you, this is a musing, not a prescription for peace. If any solution could be so simple, I am confident it would have taken root by now.

Not gonna lie, I was pretty lost ten minutes in. Thank you for making it as clear as you could. Ultimately, these events leave me feeling ever so sorry for the Libyan people. I almost wonder, if the peace is broken again, would it not be better for the opposing parties to find some way to form their own independent nations? Given the insane complexity and ever shifting alliances between the numerous factions, it doesn't appear that anyone will be able to assert any lasting power or control over the nation as a whole. Would splitting the nation into new, smaller ones be possible? I'm not familiar with Libya's specific geography or resource allocation, but perhaps that is where this conflict is heading? If not, I fear another large-scale conflict is inevitable, and may be even more deadly than the previous ones.

I swear Simon is the busiest dude on KZfaq.

Missing reasoning behind outside player's support of the factions.

Simon: clearly if you see the amount of time left on this video, you know Lybia's troubles were far from over. Me happe ing to be looking at the time bar: YOU GET OUT OF MY HEAD, SIMON WHISTLER! YOU GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!

How on earth did it take five whole months to publish this video from the date it was shot?

Holy crap Petah Quag's in the war

God damn pls give us a map pls. I cant understand anything without one

Giggitty...

haftar: I want to drive out destabilizing forces and move towards negotiations also haftar: you know what? fuck that. I'm the destabilizing force now.

I’m always shocked that every time a civil war in a Muslim country erupts at how many people unironically say “if they hadn’t deposed (insert mass murdering dictator) the country would be fine! It’s all the wests fault!” Not stopping for a moment to realize what it says about the people in these societies that without a brutal tyrant in charge they all devolve into religious civil war instead of transitioning to democratic institutions… Saw it with my own eyes while deployed in Afghanistan, without deep change within the core of political Islam as a whole there will NEVER be free and modern societies in these areas as a rule instead of a RARE exception. Its truly sad, the cradle of civilization is now a backwards wasteland all because of a fairytale book thought up by some middle eastern warlord in the sixth century.

Does this mean we’ll see a Biographics video on Gaddafi soon?

I wanna know what happened to his brothers Larrymar and Curlymar?

Hey Simon nobody can hear you in the back. Can your team work on your audio problem, it’s really bad…

CIA, revolution, protest, division, oil, natural gas🤔

"The UN get twitchy when it looked like regimes they didn't like started to take back power from the newly formed "stable" government. Although no one in the UN lived there they knew it was up to them to control Libya"

The continued international insistence on holding elections in countries that are not even pacified, let alone well educated and culturally homogeneous, will keep the embers smoldering. Funny how in the most successful modern democracy, the people who wrote its constitution were not democratically elected. It is good that Qaddafi is gone, and even were he to have survived the 2012 revolution, it is likely that Lybia would have degenerated after his eventual death due to old age anyway. But jumping right into the free and fair elections was never going to work out.

As a Libyan I can tell you that this video is really overplaying the title “Islamist.” This just isn’t a thing in Libya. Our crisis is not ideological, it is based on narrow individual interests of both a handful of Libyan actors and a handful of mid-level powers seeking to increase their influence using them as a proxy.

Is it NTC or TNC? The writing around the badge, and the acronym Simon uses, are not the same

I clicked the video because I saw the word quagmire in the title and I like quagmire from family guy. Idk what a Libya is

And now not is slavery back in Libya, NGOs use Libya as a human trafficing location

not nearly as bad as CK2, but could use a nice family tree chart for all the insurgencies ;)

Thanks killairy Clit ton

I remember a very different series of events then whats painted here for one the rebels where always divided so much so that they where losing only when the airstrikes came raining in did the war start swinging in the rebels favor

There are few extremely important details missing here. First, and I'm not sure if I missed this in your video, but you forgot to mentioned Haftars coupe in 2013 against the elected parliament, which was controlled by no islamists. Second, Haftars militia, masking under the LNA, is largely Islamic extremist as well, they are salafis and they are more extreme than the islamists in the west.

It's a shame that the Arab Spring hasn't seen more dramatic change in the region. Gaddafi was scum, a murderer and terrorist who deserved what he got. It is just a shame that we didn't have a game plan for helping Libya figure out what they wanted to be next. Ultimately, stability has to come from within the country.

the EU and NATO have kept messing up these regions and then wonder where did the immigrant crisis come from

who'd of ever guessed that foreign meddling & power games could result in so much tragedy... oh wait.

has anyone else noticed that when ever society breaks down tribal violence seems to take its place