Was Arcane Signet a Mistake? | Good Morning Magic | C21

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Good Morning Magic

Good Morning Magic

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching Good Morning Magic! If you enjoyed the episode, it'd mean a lot to me if you subscribed: it only takes one click, and helps grow the channel.
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Arcane Signet: this one card has generated a ton of discussion. So where did it come from? Why did we make it? Are we happy with it? Let me walk you through my thoughts today!
Have a question? Post a comment! You can also catch me, Gavin Verhey, on the rest of the internet at:
Twitter: / gavinverhey
Instagram: / gavinverhey
TikTok: / gavinverhey
Thumbnail background art is Arcane Signet, from Throne of Eldraine byDan Scott. Intro and outro background is Forest from Jumpstart, by Alayna Danner. Intro Song is "Cartoon Bank Heist" by Doug Maxwell/Media Well productions.
#magicthegathering #Commander #C21

Пікірлер: 477
@ethanschulze557
@ethanschulze557 3 жыл бұрын
“Two or more colors” man, I play arcane signet in mono red. It’s strictly better than the diamond cycle.
@abrahamdrinkin2534
@abrahamdrinkin2534 2 жыл бұрын
This. Mono color needs help. There need to be some mana rocks that tap for one color
@ethanschulze557
@ethanschulze557 2 жыл бұрын
@@abrahamdrinkin2534 Yes lol. New design space: the diamonds BUT they enter untapped. Seems risky... Could break the format... We'll just make a functional reprint of the great henge instead. Released only in "Secret Lair: Functional Reprints."
@abrahamdrinkin2534
@abrahamdrinkin2534 2 жыл бұрын
@@ethanschulze557 Lol don’t give them ideas. But yes. Let’s get some new mana rocks that come in untapped and help mono color in some way
@deathkitty23
@deathkitty23 2 жыл бұрын
@@abrahamdrinkin2534 Carnelian Medallion (2) Artifact Carnelian Medallion enters the battlefield tapped. As long as Carnelian Medallion is untapped Red spells you cast cost (1) less A cycle of this please.
@Randoman590
@Randoman590 2 жыл бұрын
@@deathkitty23 My only problem with that is that the existing Medallion cycle is just strictly better.
@vitortrindade5617
@vitortrindade5617 3 жыл бұрын
I'm glad that now that it exists it gets reprinted everywhere.
@nanoacido5174
@nanoacido5174 3 жыл бұрын
It's great to hear from WoC that Arcane Signet, Korvold and Chulane were in fact a mistake. Talisman and Fellwar Stone reprints pls
@YourCrazyOverlord
@YourCrazyOverlord 3 жыл бұрын
True. Fellwar was perfect, and hasn't been printed in like 5 years.
@atlaswar2425
@atlaswar2425 3 жыл бұрын
THIS thank you
@spudster8887
@spudster8887 3 жыл бұрын
Ehh can't say i agree tbh, especially korvold and chulane. Those 2 commanders are not for casual tables, so they fit in places where they belong. As much as i enjoy build arounds, i also want a good share of cards on chulane and kovolds power level.
@Rishino
@Rishino 2 жыл бұрын
Biggest mistake was making Syr Gwyn 6 CMC
@tttyyy949
@tttyyy949 2 жыл бұрын
@@spudster8887 That doesn't make any sense. You are missing something. Printing cards like korvold or chulane (I own both btw) kills multiple options as they are so generally good at their colors that they destroy multiple other options. Much less people are exited about building Prossh or Amareth which are good commanders but loses their appeal and stay in the shadow of Korvold and Chulane. Commanders should be for competitive/casual tables by the way you build a deck around commander not by how much the commander itself is overpowered.
@wujo4443
@wujo4443 3 жыл бұрын
"With Eldraine we released a card that created quite a stir...." Oko? Once Upon a Time? Fires? Embercleave? Mystic Sanctuary? Oh... the Signet...
@bobobo7730
@bobobo7730 3 жыл бұрын
Bonecrusher Giant?
@Goblin300
@Goblin300 3 жыл бұрын
T h e E n t i r e S e t
@jaeger2780
@jaeger2780 3 жыл бұрын
god i cant wait for eldraine to get out of standard
@Petrelli1926
@Petrelli1926 3 жыл бұрын
brazen barrower, lovestruck beast...
@billygibson9393
@billygibson9393 3 жыл бұрын
Embercleave really isn't all that bad guys
@AufziehMeister1
@AufziehMeister1 3 жыл бұрын
I think cursed mirror and strixhaven stadium were great mana rocks that made me think of swapping some 2 cmc rocks for the cool effects.
@BarbeChenue
@BarbeChenue 3 жыл бұрын
Oh yeah! 200% agreed!!
@GoodMorningMagic
@GoodMorningMagic 3 жыл бұрын
Cursed Mirror is one of my favorites of C21! So good. :)
@nicholasbower17
@nicholasbower17 3 жыл бұрын
This is great, because it pushes Commander to that fun "casual" realm on occasion. Meanwhile we still do our Cedh thing over here in the corner lol.
@jttownsend3576
@jttownsend3576 3 жыл бұрын
New 3 Mana Rocks are fine so long as the existing 2 Mana Rocks (and Wayfarer's Bauble) get reprints in Commander decks.
@BarbeChenue
@BarbeChenue 3 жыл бұрын
Also: Talisman reprints! :)
@bobobo7730
@bobobo7730 3 жыл бұрын
@Josiah Hansen phyrexian costed Mana rocks
@michaelserrahn5606
@michaelserrahn5606 3 жыл бұрын
Oh dear God no Phyrexian Mana rocks... They would be auto includes in most if not all CEDH decks
@bobobo7730
@bobobo7730 3 жыл бұрын
@@michaelserrahn5606 perhaps phyrexian Mana filtering rocks?
@abem7948
@abem7948 3 жыл бұрын
I love how this channel has given such great insight into the design of magic! Thanks for sharing your knowledge
@GoodMorningMagic
@GoodMorningMagic 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for watching! :)
@Randoman590
@Randoman590 2 жыл бұрын
@@GoodMorningMagic Do you ever take a look at the community's custom cards and give feedback on their design?
@Darkogazza
@Darkogazza 3 жыл бұрын
You're totally in the right headspace in terms of deck homogonization. It's bizarre, but I feel like this type of experiment is great to have occasionally so that you guys at WotC learn and can utilize that in the future. Unfortunately 3-mana mana rocks GENERALLY just don't cut it in my commander meta because they're too slow, but Chromatic Lantern and Coalition Relic have come close a number of times. The "super fixers"/two mana tappers really push close. Thanks for the content!
@marshall4439
@marshall4439 3 жыл бұрын
I find it has a lot to do with whether my deck NEEDS to hit 4 mana by turn 3. Like, if Queen Marchesa is my commander, I'm only running 2mv rocks. But if I'm playing Gavi, Nest Warden or Osgir as my commander, it's less important and therefore the strength of the 3mv rocks can really shine.
@HarleyLatex
@HarleyLatex 3 жыл бұрын
You are awesome ... I really enjoy your show. I love that you are willing to adress points that may not have been a good decision. This shows your love for the game.
@geegnomes
@geegnomes 3 жыл бұрын
Gavin, this is the best mtg apology video I've ever seen. 1. Acknowledge mistake. 2. Make busted card widely available. 3. Show how you're making different design choices. Thank you. I haven't played many 3 mana rocks since arcane signet, but I do like how the colored ones are often playable beyond draft. I hope your team also recognized the homogenizing effect that rocks like The Great Henge can have on the format. Also, great job diversifying white and even boros in strixhaven! Love the design space you all explored there.
@cassie5248
@cassie5248 3 жыл бұрын
I think 2 mana mana rocks are good space to explore in a more limited form. Ones that help mono color decks, for instance, so that they can compete with the signets and talismans multicolor decks have to offer. That said, overall I do think 3 mana rocks are a better space to explore in general
@tommasomarconi9053
@tommasomarconi9053 3 жыл бұрын
I don't even play commander (only historic), but I really, really, really, appreciate these videos. They show a much appreciated transparency in the creative process and I can't stop thanking you for making these. Best of luck!
@SuperKamiGuru5
@SuperKamiGuru5 3 жыл бұрын
Love that this is something that is being brought up and thought about! Thank you Gavin!
@Dawsenconway
@Dawsenconway 3 жыл бұрын
Gavin really appreciate how you tackle some of these subjects.
@saltberry15
@saltberry15 2 жыл бұрын
Your current video reminded me of this one, and I realized I never commented about how good Arcane Signet has been for me. So, Arcane Signet has become a budget staple for me. Having another 2 mana value rock that doesn't tap when it comes into play has helped the consistency of my decks. I'm running it with Everflowing Chalice, Wayfarer's Bauble, Fellwar Stone, Fractured Powerstone, Izzet Signet, Mind Stone, Prismatic Lens, and Thought Vessel with it in my Malcolm x Breeches PDH Deck, for example. That's 9 ramp cards that increase the potential to cast my 3 drops on turn three, and according to the Aetherhub HyperGeometricCalculator, that's a 49.8% chance to draw 1 or more of them! The options at common are limited, so I really appreciate that y'all made it! It did a lot for my niche commander deck building restrictions. Regardless if someone is building exactly like me or not, it is an excellent affordable option to potentially increase the consistency of their play experience.
@Yunas_Jet
@Yunas_Jet 3 жыл бұрын
I love the perspective you've got regarding more fun customisable cards in decks. If commander shots in standard sets are going to keep being the norm, I think a great place to look here would be the design skeleton of the sets! For example, almost every set has a land ramp card for 2G. But because each of them plays into the set mechanic, there's a ton of variety when I go to reach for my green ramp package! Enchantments matter deck? Omen of the hunt. Mono green graveyard? Field trip. I think you could include more of those kinds of staple card types in set design skeletons (I think you might already be doing so with 5/4 mana wraths, for example), make sure they often play into the set's mechanic, and you'd just naturally make the format better over time! But anyway 3 auto-includes in nearly 30 years of magic is still pretty good going
@GunbladeKnight
@GunbladeKnight 3 жыл бұрын
It's really only 3 because other fast mana tend to be expensive, like Mana Crypt.
@vittoriasmith826
@vittoriasmith826 3 жыл бұрын
I really love the 3MV coloured mana rocks so far! Super excited to see where you go with them :)
@GoodMorningMagic
@GoodMorningMagic 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you Vittoria! 😄
@KingBobXVI
@KingBobXVI 3 жыл бұрын
Gavin: "Command Tower - doesn't really impact standard, because it can't do anything..." Mono-Black-Magic: "Hold my World Tree and Trickster-God's Heist..."
@GoodMorningMagic
@GoodMorningMagic 3 жыл бұрын
If you play it in Standard, I am impressed. :)
@KingBobXVI
@KingBobXVI 3 жыл бұрын
@@GoodMorningMagic - his deck played it so he could exchange it with the opponent and give them useless lands in exchange for value, it was a really silly and fun deck! If you haven't seen his KZfaq channel (MonoBlackMagic) I highly recommend it, he has a habit of breaking the arena metagame :P
@linkmaxwell
@linkmaxwell 3 жыл бұрын
Oh my lard!
@pedramcq
@pedramcq 3 жыл бұрын
I totally agree about the homogenization of commander. The issue is with all the newer awesome cards that keep coming out, there are always older cards that do things better... Makes me sad when I hear reviews from people like Command Zone poop all over my favorite musical theme cards like the suspending refrains in the Prismari deck U_U
@aidennoir597
@aidennoir597 3 жыл бұрын
I think the refrains are super cool and you should play them if you like them! Commander should be about playing what you like and not always playing the absolute best thing.
@chudrustler
@chudrustler 3 жыл бұрын
@@aidennoir597 true. edh games don’t have to be cedh games with your friends
@mmartak
@mmartak 3 жыл бұрын
And yet, even a year later, Jeweled Lotus still saw print. :-(
@6thstanza700
@6thstanza700 3 жыл бұрын
They said 2 mana value rocks... not zero lol
@Searibox
@Searibox 3 жыл бұрын
@@6thstanza700 he said he doesn't want them to make cards that homogenize decks
@KingBobXVI
@KingBobXVI 3 жыл бұрын
@@Searibox - jeweled lotus isn't really homogenizing though, it isn't always worth running if your Commander needs multiple colors. It's good, sure, but a lot of the time it's going to be a dead draw. (that is, until you abuse it in legacy with doubling cube...)
@jacknelson8640
@jacknelson8640 3 жыл бұрын
I love 'Chittering Witch'
@domread
@domread 3 жыл бұрын
Bonders Ornament is almost unplayable Gavin, come on. I LOVE Tome of Legends though.
@MrMalorian
@MrMalorian 3 жыл бұрын
Great to have videos like these for insight
@dragoon8742
@dragoon8742 3 жыл бұрын
As a lover of Dragon's Hoard, I think 3 MV mana rocks are definitely worth exploring. Tacking something a little bit useful onto an otherwise generic card is a great way to add flavour to your deck, even if it means being just a little bit slower.
@Jho-on
@Jho-on 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for acknowledge this problem and for learning the right lesson.
@BaronKrool
@BaronKrool 3 жыл бұрын
Gavin is a real one. Keep up the good work.
@marshall4439
@marshall4439 3 жыл бұрын
I'm glad you feel this way, as I too have come to see Arcane Signet as a homogenizing force in Commander. I really like Commander 2021 for having lot of new, powerful cards which are not overpowered auto-includes (thanks in large part, I believe, to their own mana values being higher than 2.) I think Wizards needs to be VERY careful about every new 0, 1, and 2 MV card they print for Commander. Cards like Thrasios, Dockside Extortionist, Jeweled Lotus, Arcane Signet, et al actively harm the format by pushing it in ways that are very hard to counter, and so if you can't beat em, you've got to join em.
@marshall4439
@marshall4439 3 жыл бұрын
@James Black fair. 3 cmc has produced a lot of bad cards for commander. Hot take but I actually don’t think Smothering Tithe is a problem. It feels like a strong 4mv card for white, but doesn’t seem any more insane than a lot of other cards available to other colors.
@DRAGHNALL
@DRAGHNALL 3 жыл бұрын
Now I think that 3cmc rocks are nice and healthier for the format as a whole. Pushing up the curve to do splashier thing I feel make for a better casual environment. Can't wait to see what you guys have in store for the 3 cmc slots. BTW Skyclave Relic was really awesome.
@thecmoose4754
@thecmoose4754 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you Gavin. Very fascinating peer behind the curtain. Your candor and honesty is appreciated. Reprint Wayfarer's Bauble please sir.
@tonyontilt3522
@tonyontilt3522 3 жыл бұрын
Glad to hear you feel this way
@qou2600
@qou2600 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the explanation. I'm very curious what you're planning to do to make new 3-mana mana rocks that people will want to play. Most of the ones that currently exist can't compete with their two mana counterparts. I imagine synergizing with popular strategies would be the way to go. I'm a personal fan of flavor wins, I really wish Meteorite was 3 mana... But I know there are plenty of enchantress decks that would play a Manalith if it was an enchantment (Make it a shrine too) and things like that
@mikem7662
@mikem7662 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Gavin, I think Arc Signet is fine now that it's here, but no more please! Very excited for "custom" 3 mana rocks that have a unique flavor to synergize in the deck some way. Keep those coming!
@emctwoo
@emctwoo 3 жыл бұрын
The design space for colored mana cost 2 cmc rocks definitely seems super interesting. Just thinking about the great value cards like Mindstone and Thought Vessel offer, more cards in that vein but color specific could be really nice to have.
@BigDamnVanguard
@BigDamnVanguard 3 жыл бұрын
Cursed Mirror is my favorite new card from this year's main precons and is a perfect example of a three mana mana rock that does something interesting and then sticks around to ramp you. Definitely hoping we see more like it!
@eliluke2427
@eliluke2427 3 жыл бұрын
I always loved Arcane Signet but this video makes a ton of sense. I love commander for the singleton format. I purposely try to put different cards in each of my decks. I would be bummed out if Commander became a format where 5-10+ cards went into every deck. I think Arcane Signet is fine to exist, but I’m with you: 2CMC mana rocks are already topped out. I’m looking forward to seeing cool new 3CMC designs. The red 3CMC artifact from the Lorehold Precon is awesome! Do more of those things
@jasonkorf7700
@jasonkorf7700 3 жыл бұрын
I appreciate, that you talked about this subject and a bit on the other Commander/Brawl mistakes. For me, I like cheap efficient/powerful Mana rocks and ramp spells, but I acknowledge that's not what's best for the health of the format and some of them like Arcane Signet, Jeweled Lotus , Dockside Extortionist, and etc probably shouldn't have been printed, but now that they are. I like that you as a company are reprinting Arcane Signet, but I do hope you find more opportunities to reprint the others, especially Dockside Extortionist who is a staple ramp card in Red that has yet to see a reprint.
@leimornyx4811
@leimornyx4811 3 жыл бұрын
i think it would be amazing that with commander deck releases to help new players learn even more about magic you also included a side pack of hand picked cards, like 15-20, that would not only upgrade the deck in terms of gameplay, it would help those new players on a budget be able to keep up with their friends while also having their friends be able to teach them about deck upgrading, how to take a deck in a new direction while also maybe giving existing players something to have fun with as well. it could allow the ability to put in extra cards that you felt should have maybe been included but didnt have room for to maintain balance. i think itd be amazing to be able to have new magic player friends be able to feel their deck becoming more powerful without having to freak out about the secondary market :) food for thought
@yggdrasilraphael4815
@yggdrasilraphael4815 3 жыл бұрын
As usual Gavin, thanks for the transparency. I do agree on the “homogenization” of Commander decks issue that it creates, but on the other side, mana bases are so expensive to make for efficient 3+ color decks ! That this card exists and it now more easily available is probably a good thing, because I think of new or budget players trying to make their expensive decks, and Arcane Signet alleviates some of that burden. Most Green decks already play Cultivate & Kodama’s Reach anyway, most non-Green decks play Fellwar Stone instead, etc... people will tend to go to the more efficient options indeed. I also agree with you that 3MV mana rocks are probably the way to go looking forward, but the efficiency (and number now) of the 2MV rocks means that they need a HUGE upside to compete with them -> this is probably where the efforts lies for now IMHO in the mana rocks department, making some appealing 3MV rocks 😉 You got this Gavin !!!
@endlessorbaggins8223
@endlessorbaggins8223 3 жыл бұрын
WotC could alleviate the burden of new players in applying the same treatment they do to Arcane Signet to other basic game tools (i.e lands) and heavily print Shocks and Fetches in commander pre-cons. Why they don't do so? And why they heavily reprint Aracane Signet, Sol Ring and Commander Tower when they could just do like they do with other cards (making them scarce) so we could have 50+$ Aracane Signet and company on the secondary market. I don't really understand their choices when it comes to reprinting staples with high price.
@angelojohnson9441
@angelojohnson9441 3 жыл бұрын
I use my Midnight Clock! Glad to see it hasn’t been forgotten!
@spliffi869
@spliffi869 2 жыл бұрын
Good morning to you as well, my dude
@kristopherwatts9466
@kristopherwatts9466 3 жыл бұрын
I REALLY question you guys not wanting to Homogenize the format. Opposition Agent, Hullbreacher, and Jeweled Lotus all encourage that kind of activity. The only reason they haven't is because of the price.
@TheBadRandolph
@TheBadRandolph 3 жыл бұрын
True. Opposition Agent and Hullbreacher are far worse commander staples to play against than Signet. And the Lotus in 1v1 is just horrific
@TheKaijudist
@TheKaijudist 3 жыл бұрын
You can have the power level discussion about Jeweled Lotus, but to say it homogenized the format is incorrect. If anything it gives a leg up to mono color commanders that the format inherently disincentivizes.
@kristopherwatts9466
@kristopherwatts9466 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheKaijudist after doing a quick look.. Jeweled Lotus can, with a singular land, cast 138 of the 4 drop legendaries of the 240 4 drop legendaries I looked at. The numbers are also not as accurate, because, for my ease of use, I utilized scryfall to just look at Legendaries. So the percentage is much higher. Now, this isn't including ANY of the other free ramp options that are EDH legal, or any other legendaries(such as Krrick) who have work arounds on their mana cost, or lower cost commanders. I reiterate my point. Jeweled Lotus, the card, is designed as a chase mythic that, whether or not they meant it to, would homogonize the format if supply was higher.
@willemboele2079
@willemboele2079 2 жыл бұрын
i have owned an opposition agent (foil, hehe) for quite some time now. i have played it in like 2 decks. my point: who's forcing you to play these cards? i only want to play opposition agent if hes abilities are relevant to my deck's goals/stratergy. like a hatebear deck or a flash based deck. sure, it COULD go in every single deck i ever make and it would probably be pretty good. claiming you HAVE to play cards is just.. not true. i also own a mana crypt. i COULD play it in ever deck and i'd have a second sol ring in every deck, i'd just have to switch it out every game. why would i? not all my decks need a mana crypt. claiming you "have" to play certain cards is just lazy thinking imo.
@kristopherwatts9466
@kristopherwatts9466 2 жыл бұрын
@@willemboele2079 Seemed to have missed where I said that was the case. With paper Magic(outside of rare circumstance); there is no errata. There is no adjusting for overpowered cards, or cards that create an unfun environment. They print them knowing full well what they can do, with a general idea of how they will impact the formats they are legal in... which is why I questioned what Gavin said in this particular video. You didn't say anything that actually addresses my point, and who I am talking to.
@jaya-prime
@jaya-prime 3 жыл бұрын
Of course I love Arcane Signet, and I get the homogenization. It still helps a lot in non-green decks. My favorites though are the more specialized ones like Elementalist's Palette or the Midnight Clock that you mentioned, as they're irreplaceable in certain decks while other decks wouldn't even consider them.
@Wojtek36762
@Wojtek36762 3 жыл бұрын
I think the “free slam into any 2+ color deck” aspect of Arcane Signet is the most objectionable thing, like you said. I think the number of 2 mana rocks that already exists is about right, so as long as they’re periodically reprinted (are we getting friendly color talismans in MH2? Some of them are over $5 now), we shouldn’t need new ones. I normally try not to play 3 mana rocks in commander without specific reason, but Cursed Mirror is wicked cool and made me excited to. If that’s the new design space for rocks, you’ll definitely get me on board. Slower, cooler ramp that’s worth playing would be good for the format.
@br_a1n161
@br_a1n161 3 жыл бұрын
I'd love to see other Commander staples printed more often, prices have exploded recently.
@noahmanweiler8833
@noahmanweiler8833 3 жыл бұрын
So by your logic, rhystic study should be reprinted all the time since it’s a “ Common that everyone should be able to get there hands on.”
@golgariguy
@golgariguy 3 жыл бұрын
Very interesting video! I would prefer there to be no auto-include in the format, so I'd prefer if Command Tower and Arcane Signet didn't exist, and if Sol Ring was banned. I know this may sound a bit extreme, but as you said, every slot taken by an "auto-include" is one fewer cool card we can find for our decks. PS: Eldraine was in general muuuuch more pushed than all the other sets of the past 2 years. Every card feels like it has at least one line of text that could be scrapped and the card would still be good :)
@koyotesoul2
@koyotesoul2 3 жыл бұрын
This is super refreshing, I love the transparency and honesty. I think arcane signet was a bit of a mistake, along with chulane
@TheBraveExalted
@TheBraveExalted Жыл бұрын
Honestly, kinda a hot take, but I enjoy cards like this because they simplify deck building in a small way. I love having all the creativity of building a deck and the myriad flavors; but simultaneously getting into a new shard or wedge can be intimidating and having a few staples you know will help you get to your vision is nice. With that said, you’ve got a great point with the homogenization of the game. It’s a very fine line to walk. But I think this card is well worth its cost.
@matthewbeard7841
@matthewbeard7841 3 жыл бұрын
I think the biggest impact Arcane Signet has had on me is that it has pushed me to be more creative with my mana rocks in my decks so as not to fall into the pitrap of deck homogenization you talked about, Gavin. For example, my Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign deck runs entirely odd mana value cards, so I can't use Arcand Signet in it even if I might like to. My Reki, History of Kamigawa deck only uses cards that are Legendary so, again, Arcane Signet isn't a card I can run in that deck. In the end, deck building through the use of restrictions breeds creativity and helps stymie the homogenization of my favorite format, Commander.
@josh24214
@josh24214 3 жыл бұрын
I liked the card so I'm wondering with rotation coming up for arena are you guys going to make some brawl staple cards still be used after rotation?
@thefrozengoat
@thefrozengoat 3 жыл бұрын
Great video! IMO, I'd like to see more 2-mana mana rocks actually. They allow you to keep pace with the table way more effectively than 3-mana mana rocks. I love rocks that produce colorless mana and have some utility to them, but I'd also absolutely love a 1W/1U/1B/1R/1G cycle of mana rocks that add a colorless mana and have some utility. I think there's lots of design space there, and that those would force players to think more about the 2-mana slot. Honestly the only 3-mana mana rock I'm ever willing to run is Chromatic Lantern, and even that is arguable as an include to a lot of people. 3-mana rocks just don't seem that efficient or appealing to me. And I'm wondering whether spending the time designing more of them might not be as productive as exploring space that will instantly fit within the Commander meta (2-mana rocks w/ colored casting cost for example). Either way I am always excited to see what the future holds. Thanks Gavin!
@TheJeffersW
@TheJeffersW 3 жыл бұрын
I'm glad to hear you acknowledge the problems with Arcane Signet, and I'm glad that cards like it are things you would like to avoid, but I can't help but feel that we've been here before and will be here again. I would very much like to be proven wrong.
@Atuleon
@Atuleon 2 жыл бұрын
HI Gavin, When we open a booster in a new release, to get a mythic and then instantly find out it has just been banned from standard, what compensation is there?
@misomiso8228
@misomiso8228 3 жыл бұрын
Hey Gav Without spoiling (!) what did they mean by saying the DnD Commander decks are related to the Strxhaven ones? Are they similar in theme / colour? Is it a power level thing? ty no worries if you plead the 5th!
@DilanQuill
@DilanQuill 2 жыл бұрын
My takeaways from when I first saw arcane signet revealed: 1) Even though it is the same CMC as the guild signets, it's overall better because you don't have to pay into it to use it. 2) I understand the whole color fixing aspect for multi colored decks, but it also works in the other direction. Throw it in a mono red deck for example and it's a better Fire Diamond. 3) I would have done one of three things: Made it cost 3, made it enter tapped or made it like the guild signets where it cost 2 but you had to pay one to tap it for two mana of any combination based off your commander's identity.
@KingBobXVI
@KingBobXVI 3 жыл бұрын
"Noo, I'm not talking about Oko... no I'm not talking about Once Upon a Time... no I'm not talking about the cat, or the giant, or... look, you know what I mean!"
@Randoman590
@Randoman590 2 жыл бұрын
Talking about coloured artifacts, I would be interested to see how things play out with 2mv rocks that cost 2 coloured pips of different colours. We don't have many multi-coloured artifacts yet and even fewer that are not also creatures, and I for one as a Boros player would appreciate the extra options for ramp.
@mikemcglasson1286
@mikemcglasson1286 3 жыл бұрын
No one is deliberately grabbing a Bonder's Ornament
@dariocampanella7992
@dariocampanella7992 3 жыл бұрын
Unless you play pauper
@fargoth_ur7
@fargoth_ur7 3 жыл бұрын
Are you gonna do the same with jeweled lotus then and print it to oblivion? Honestly I think you should print more 2-mana rocks for commander. They are already infinitely better for ramping in non-green decks, and what truly homogenizes the format is having so few to choose from. You don't need to make new ones at the level of arcane signet, but you could do ones more similar to thought vessel and mind stone: 2 mana rocks that only tap for colorless and have a small benefit. Maybe they also have "T, Pay 1 life: Add W" or any other one color to make them at least give you some fixing and not just ramp. What extra effects you could put on them are definitely going to be limited by the fact that they cost 2 mana and not more, butmore variety on the 2 mana rocks is definitely something that I'd welcome.
@jetcell4517
@jetcell4517 2 жыл бұрын
It sounds like Gavin doesn’t like 2 mana rocks in this video even though he said they would like to design more staples. 3 mana rocks are a different breed of card altogether that serve a different purpose than 2 mana rocks-Gavin is just wrong when he says Coalition Relic is a card for fast mana. There’s a wide range of acceptable and desired power between Arcane Signet and the diamonds that I wish he acknowledged.
@Ladyrosieparks
@Ladyrosieparks 3 жыл бұрын
Love that you mass produced arcane signet for budget reasons (also glad you did it for sol ring). Now please do the same for mana vault, mana crypt and jeweled lotus.
@kaszael
@kaszael 3 жыл бұрын
Speaking of 2 MV mana rocks, I would really like the Medallion cycle to get a reprint or 2. They're the best rocks for mono color and I also play them in some 2-4 color decks as well!
@guillermoromero8041
@guillermoromero8041 3 жыл бұрын
Hey man, all due respect, but it’s cmc. Get that mv $@&! out of here :p
@InsertCleverNameHere0
@InsertCleverNameHere0 3 жыл бұрын
I feel like I'm in the minority here, but I feel like a certain amount of consistency in EDH deckbuilding can actually be kinda good, especially if you're new and struggling to really figure out the nitty-gritty of how to build your deck. Players who are new or perhaps less focused on the building aspect can be reassured that their decks will manage some form of consistency. There's definitely a line where homogeneity can go too far, but I don't have an issue with the idea that any good deck should probably have a Sol Ring, a Command Tower, and an Arcane Signet.
@jesseseifert7995
@jesseseifert7995 3 жыл бұрын
Personally I see that as a bit of a non-issue. Getting a pre con and upgrading it is a great way for a new player to learn how to build a deck. I also think that there are plenty of commanders such as muldrotha, chulane, or golos that can be built in a less focused way and still be good. There are also tribal decks that are pretty easy to build for those who aren’t super into deck building.
@ericleiva
@ericleiva 3 жыл бұрын
I have Karona Voltron in which I run all 11 Signets, all 10 Talismans, Fellwar Stone, Thought Vessel and Sol Ring, there's also a bunch of green ramp spells in there, there's jo big plays or X spells, I just liked it that way, it tends to ramp a lot really fast and do nothing with all that mana, it's really fun to play for me!
@moralessanchezoscarelias6412
@moralessanchezoscarelias6412 3 жыл бұрын
Great to hear your insights! Have you considered how the factor of price affects availability of other cards, and therefore homogenization? For example, I'd love to include Fierce Guardmanship in all my blue commander decks, but its price bars me out.
@endlessorbaggins8223
@endlessorbaggins8223 3 жыл бұрын
Still Fierce Guardianship is played in 20% of all commander decks compiled by EDHrec. So, looks like the price is not that much restricitve to others. But, Fierce is a blue card that can't go in every deck. Arcane Signet is a card that can go in every decks, so probably the demand would be high for it and with no heavy reprinting (like for Command Tower and Sol Ring) these cards could climb at 50$+ more easily. I think it would not stop homgeneisation, people would still pay 50$+ because auto-include to have stronger deck. I think Arcane Signet was like 20$ when it came out and lot of people were jumping on it at that price. It would mostly pissed off lot of people that the price of these be high. Also, Commander is already having lot of high priced staples, no need to add more. If the format becomes too pricy, it could just push out players with lower budget or stop new players for wanting to enter the game.
@moralessanchezoscarelias6412
@moralessanchezoscarelias6412 3 жыл бұрын
@@endlessorbaggins8223 What I'm saying is that if Fierce Guardianship costed the same as Arcane Signet costs today, it would be in more decks than it currently is in. So the argument still stands. Card prices affect accessibility, and therefore homogeneity.
@modernphilosophicaldiscour3558
@modernphilosophicaldiscour3558 3 жыл бұрын
I think it would be very interesting to see more colored mana rocks. I have found that I cut 3 mana rocks often. Most of them aren't worth the awkward curve they create.
@GabrielFranco
@GabrielFranco 3 жыл бұрын
Any chance for a print of inspiring commander? Is a good card for my Alesha Edh but there is no real card version of it :(
@PhazonOmega
@PhazonOmega 3 жыл бұрын
Well said!
@JamesBond-wk2mr
@JamesBond-wk2mr 3 жыл бұрын
What is wotc doing to print cards that are powerful or go in lots of commander decks like smothering tithe and rhystic study get into the hands of players? How do cards get the arcane Signet treatment?
@uruigi
@uruigi 3 жыл бұрын
Cursed Mirror from the recent Lorehold precon was a great success in my opinion for colored mana rocks. It ticks every box for red, for me.
@Darebearlovesbug
@Darebearlovesbug 3 жыл бұрын
I like arcane signet as a tool for non green decks to have excellent ramp and fixing
@bruhensant
@bruhensant 3 жыл бұрын
Colored artifact like Midnight Clock seems very good, mainly because the limits you can push are far away to be overwhelming powerful. How an Enchantment who adds mana will look like? 😸
@schattenmund
@schattenmund 2 жыл бұрын
Gavin, honest question: had new Eddy (Crimson Vow) to pay for OG Eddys power?
@xmikemruk
@xmikemruk 3 жыл бұрын
My next question would be is brawl going to get continued support? With Throne rotating out will there be a new deck/set with Arcane Signet in it?
@zeez145
@zeez145 3 жыл бұрын
A 1W mana rock I'd like to see printed would be some kind of "tap: add W tap: return target permanent with mana value 2 or less from your graveyard to your hand" generating card advantage when you don't need the mana seems great for mono white and boros =)
@mzurran1003
@mzurran1003 Жыл бұрын
I wonder about the possibility of colored mana rocks that are more than 1 color. like a mana rock that costs RW, It does not fix your mana (because you need RW to cast it) but it does ramp at 2 mana. Or better yet a rock that costs a black a hybrid W/B and a white. What would a full guild cycle look like? Would it be like the locket cycle being identical except for color? or would it be more like the Keyrune cycle except more powerful?
@matthewdaughtry-weiss7540
@matthewdaughtry-weiss7540 3 жыл бұрын
While I do think it was likely a mistake I do like it for two purposes: 1. It is good for players that are new to commander and budget players as it reduces the number of cards they have to buy to have multiple decks. 2. It makes all of the colors slightly more even in the ramp space which is good because green needs to be powered down. (blue too especially in CEDH but I don't know what the plan is for that. It certainly shouldn't have been giving them artifact removal for some reason).
@RioTwain
@RioTwain 3 жыл бұрын
While Arcane Signet was a mistake, the other half of the problem (the availability) was quickly rectified. I wish this attitude was taken towards the rest of the two CMC mana rocks and land bases. The cards that should be expensive should be the cards you want to cast, not the cards you need to be able to cast them. I also wish this line of thinking was applied to fetch lands for all of the eternal formats. Modern Horizons II will not be enough even if it does end up being printed enough. Fetches should be in almost every non-standard set if possible, if not at least in one of the supplemental sets each year.
@endlessorbaggins8223
@endlessorbaggins8223 3 жыл бұрын
I'm glad you reprinted it so it does not become the next high demand low print staples like the Fetchlands and this way preventing Aracne to become a 50$ card. On the other hand I have hard time beleiving you were only seeing this card as a brawl tool and didn't anticipate at all that it would become a commander staple. I even think it was intentionnal in selling brawl decks (is brawl still a format?) to commander players.
@manuelcamara6400
@manuelcamara6400 3 жыл бұрын
It's a bit of a love hate relationship really for the reasons you've mentioned.
@hearmth6618
@hearmth6618 3 жыл бұрын
Gavin: "Chulane and Korvold were a mistake since they push out all other cool Bant and Jund commanders." Derevi and Prossh: "Hold my beer."
@GoodMorningMagic
@GoodMorningMagic 3 жыл бұрын
Also not huge fans of those either haha
@hearmth6618
@hearmth6618 3 жыл бұрын
On a lighter note, I feel the Strixhaven commanders are definitely a step in the right direction, especially Osgir! They have strong and unique effects within their color identity without being busted 🧔🎼🐟🐟🦉🌳
@sylorknag
@sylorknag 3 жыл бұрын
@@hearmth6618 Osgir is by far the strongest Boros commander atm, so not much change in that philosophy department. Thing is, not every player is a try hard, cutthroat, competitive cEDH wanna be. Those players will always play the most busted commanders out there, no matter what. And there are those like me who will play their Breena politics decks, or a Depala dwarf and Vehicles deck. The best option is to have at least two decks. One for those mor laid back people, and a second one for a more competitive table. I think the idea of not printing busted new commanders is really noble, but it won't stop try hards from playing a busted commander that already exists.
@hearmth6618
@hearmth6618 3 жыл бұрын
House ban lists can help with the busted commanders I love playing my Daryl, Hunter of Walkers Gruul politics deck! He can donate a bundle of walkers to an opponent who needs them each turn!
@damo9961
@damo9961 3 жыл бұрын
@@sylorknag Or have 16 decks, 5 Cedh and 11 dif levels of casual.
@commandertheory9275
@commandertheory9275 3 жыл бұрын
3mv rocks are a great place to fit in effects that are useful in Commander but don’t feel like they’re worth a card. Would love to see some 3mv rocks that: -grant haste -exile an opponent’s graveyard -flash with fog on etb -grant vigilance -scry repeatedly
@cabbie8858
@cabbie8858 3 жыл бұрын
A lot of 2 MC mana rocks take their effects from lands. I wonder how many more land cycles could reasonably fit on rocks. Tapped cycling rocks maybe??
@CalebAstle
@CalebAstle 3 жыл бұрын
Hey It's Gavin!!! He's a Game Knight!!!!!!
@mrpandabites
@mrpandabites 3 жыл бұрын
I absolutely agree with this, but we need to see frequent reprints of ALL the 2 mana rocks, not just Arcane Signet.
@abderianagelast7868
@abderianagelast7868 3 жыл бұрын
I think it was a case of creating a solution for Brawl and not stopping long enough to consider the complete ramifications it would have on Commander, if I had to hazard a guess.
@Mia_Mor666
@Mia_Mor666 3 жыл бұрын
On the topic of the Brawl Precons, is there any legitimate reason why these had not just arcane signet but really worthwhile reprints like Shock Lands and Smothering Tithe that we don't see in Commander Precons?
@XeroShifter
@XeroShifter 3 жыл бұрын
One of the the things that frustrates me about 2 mana rocks the most is that they're better than most green based ramp options if you're going for speed, which weakens green's color identity as the fast-ramp color. In fact now days if I'm not running a land-fall based deck, green decks may only see one or two green ramp pieces out of a package of 10-14 cards. Colorless ramp has just become at strong. As for the difference between 2 mana rocks and 3 mana rocks, the issue is that the trade-off of speed has to be worth making for whatever other benefit they have, and so far very few are. This is especially true since in Commander there just aren't enough cards (for a typical deck) that you're looking to drop on turn 1 or 2, so the early play-slots are fairly open, making mana rocks the natural choice. Lots of decks don't run very many 1 and 2 drop cards (beyond rocks), they're not worth the card slot because their impact on the game as a whole is very minimal. I'm sure that plenty of players would be happy to swap out their 2 drop rocks for 3 drop rocks if they had more tempting options in both the 3 drop slot for rocks, and the 2 drop slot for other cards. Many players are playing so many ramp pieces because even the middling mana slots like 3 and 4 are not particularly impactful in a game with tons of removal and 40 life per player. I mean even a card as bonkers as Serra Ascendant may build a bit of advantage, but isn't a deciding factor in many games due to the sheer amount of life, and nature of commander. I can see how fixing this problem would be very challenging from a design perspective because low cmc cards with enough impact for commander are likely to be picked up for other formats like legacy and vintage.
@JustABrokenToy
@JustABrokenToy 3 жыл бұрын
to me Arcane Signet just replaced things like Fellwar Stone or Darksteel Ingot in most decks, making games slightly smoother. I do think that reprinting it so everyone has access is a great way to go with it, so big thank you for that. I don't have Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, or Ancient Tomb, other very strong mana ramp, so while those might ideally be in the 20 cards that go in every commander deck, I don't own them so it's a moot point. ideally, sure, there are a lot of efficient/busted cards with low opportunity cost to run, but only Sol Ring really sees ubiquitous play because of accessibility (and even then it still maintains a not-insignificant price tag to get extra copies, I was a bit disappointed it wasn't reprinted in CMR boosters, but I did get extra Arcane Signets). homogeneity as an argument is difficult, because in some cases there are effects that you want in a color but very few options. this is key to the Cyclonic Rift argument. while it homogenizes decks in that nearly every blue deck could/should run it, it's because other similar options are either too niche (whelming wave for 4 mana) or just not as strong (sorcery speed, only hitting 1 player, only hitting creatures). the issue is to alleviate this problem without banning it (please don't) means you have to print cards at a similar power level. ultimately what that means is people run Cyclonic Rift AND the new version when given the option. but this goes back to the Mana Vault argument that some people don't want to pay absurd amounts of money for the strongest cards, so they'll just run the budget option instead. for a while people who couldn't afford Rhystic Study just played Mystic Remora instead, but now neither are really budget. the desire to improve decks by making them more efficient and the inherent fact that cards have different power levels means that decks tend to move toward homogeneity as people substitute in more efficient options as they're printed. that said, more interesting mana rocks like Midnight Clock or Cursed Mirror are great mana acceleration options that fit specific decks or bring some new consideration to the table. I've had Pyromancer's Goggles in my spellslinger decks for a while now, though I guess I do count that more towards the "spell copying" category than "ramp," but it does double-dip. but with slots tied up in Sol Ring and signets already, I probably only put a couple other mana rocks in my deck, depending on the colors and theme (green doesn't need as many, and Aminatou loves Commander's Sphere to set up the classic tap for white, crack it to Terminus on my opponent's turn)
@cameronlapp9306
@cameronlapp9306 2 жыл бұрын
It would be nice to have more art options for arcane signet - at least if there's different art it feels less homogenous if you're going for a theme :/ Coloured cost 2 cmc rocks is WAY more exciting than 3 mana rocks - 3 mana slot gets too squeezed already.
@simplegarak
@simplegarak 2 жыл бұрын
I actually liked the brawl decks and brawl format in arena. To me, it was a pretty perfect halfway point between both standard (singleton formats are easier for newbies to get into) and commander (smaller cardpool, less overwhelming with options). Indeed I wish most of the commander decks released this year (especially the two for a set) were just brawl decks.
@spudster8887
@spudster8887 3 жыл бұрын
I guess my issue with the 3 mana rocks is they need to be really good. Purely because of the number of efficient rocks we have, i see no reason to really ever use 3 mana rocks. The abilities on them need to be really worth the extra mana to cast. So, as it stands, the mana rock slots in alot of my decks are already just auto-fills. Something i'd like to see is more auras that target your lands, those are some of the best ramp in commander that i feel not enough people use.
@spliffi869
@spliffi869 2 жыл бұрын
I think the Arcane Signet is a tad too strong from a design perspective. I mean it's always easier saying that retrospectively. But the thing that makes it so good, is not just the fact that it's a new 2 mana rock, but that it can theoretically make any mana you'd want in any deck. If it were just "produce one black, as long as your commander has black in its colour identity", as let's say a Phyrexian Accelerator or whatever, it would not create this limitation in deck building you talked about and add some colour-specific flavour. People would have to think and consider, which colour they want to include depending on the commanders they are using and the cards would have more flavour for my taste. I also like the idea with mana rocks costing coloured mana, as you suggested. This again would give them more flavour and make it less universably usable. Don't be afraid of giving colours back their identity, and *don't* treat every colour equally. For example if only one colour gets a 2 mana ramp, the other colours could get a strong removal, board wipe or anything else strong that is matching their colour. The thing I personally like the least about Arcane Signet is, that it doesn't seem to have any personality, if you get what I mean. It just feels like a literal thing, that suddenly showed up in every deck, without adding any flavour but a blue glow and a black man's hand to the decks. In fact it even takes away some colour flavour, also due to that artwork, but that's another topic. Back to topic, actually Sol Ring and other staples are probably too strong in the first place. That's the reason they became universal staples, no matter what's the deck's colour. Instead of reprinting it excessively it should be on the commander ban list from the start just like other op mana rocks, such as the Black Lotus and the Moxes.
@MichaelAlexanderRain
@MichaelAlexanderRain 3 жыл бұрын
Sounds like part of the issue might be cards that reference commander itself. Commander Tower, Arcane Signet, Emmence and commander ninjitsu all seem to share this design feature and are definitely some hot topics. Hard to put a value judgment on cards like these, I like them because they push the design space but lets never make a mana rock that taps for any color from the command zone. You could call it Ninja Rock of the shadow mana!
@Devynwithawhy
@Devynwithawhy 3 жыл бұрын
I am excited about more 3 mana mana rocks, bc it is good to enforce the spirit of commander. cEDH might only play 2 mana mana rocks, but EDH plays what you have / think is fun
@BakaGrappler
@BakaGrappler 3 жыл бұрын
I like the Arcane Signet because of 2 reasons. It serves a valid and universal function without unbalancing the Singles Economy thanks to the scrupulous reprints for Commander players. And because it is doing very little damage because it's role is relegated to mana production Artifact. I can shatter or steal that card if I choose as an opponent without severely harming my opponent, or being harmed in turn to my deck's constructed form. It's an enabler card to aid in Ramp, without becoming central to a decks fuction. It also let's me get more creative with my Commander color identity and still have a slightly more solid base for Mana production so I don't have to go scrounging at card shops or online. It's a utilitarian card I can use or leave out if I so choose, depending on what I need. It's a card that there should only be one of, because there is only need for one of it. But it fills a very important role that needed to be filled, namely, an Enabling card that can speed along the development of a deck. When there are minute frameworks to construction, the process tends to go faster. It helps speed development, and eases the creation of the final product. But like I said... there doesn't need to be a second of this card. One is enough, two or more can be damaging.
@generalbobbyedhlife8852
@generalbobbyedhlife8852 3 жыл бұрын
Seeing Talismen again would be nice. Solid, fair Magic cards.
@timmyturner493
@timmyturner493 3 жыл бұрын
Why were there only 20 slots to work with? Who makes that decision? How is a specific number arrived upon?
@technole
@technole 3 жыл бұрын
Brawl really needed it, and that's enough for me. We just didn't have good options before Throne of Eldraine.
@The_MechaGojira
@The_MechaGojira 3 жыл бұрын
Speaking of colored 3 mana value mana rocks, I love Cursed Mirrior!
@thescribe509
@thescribe509 2 жыл бұрын
I understand why you think it's bad for the long-term health of the format, but what *really* got helped by Arcane Signet is mono-colored decks. Sure, almost every multicolored deck wants to run one (Enchantress decks, probably not, my Estrid deck doesn't even have a Sol Ring) but mono-colored decks have a mana rock restriction that's a hard hurdle to clear, which is they can't run *any* of the Signets or Talismans besides Arcane Signet. When you consider the remaining two-mana rocks, you can see how hamstrung the mono-color pod really is. Star compass, Coldsteel Heart, whichever Diamond fits the color, practically anything that taps for colored mana comes into play tapped. There's quite a few colorless (and non-color) mana rocks that enter the battlefield untapped, and that helps, but at the end, you end up having a very hard cap as to how much ramp you can run in any given non-green monocolored deck. Given how important getting going fast is, even in casual pods, that's another big hurdle offered to a mono-colored deck that it really doesn't need, since it already suffers from card selection and efficient answers (or answers in general) to specific permanent types. I think Arcane Signet really needed to happen for that reason, but it really could have used the Coldsteel Heart treatment, to make it a sure fit in monocolored decks but make it a questionable option in multicolored decks that don't really go for rocks that can't help fix for colors. It can still happen, just printing an untapped Coldsteel Heart for monocolored fixing.
@daedalin2281
@daedalin2281 2 жыл бұрын
I wonder, would it have been less of an issue if it'd been an Arcane Talisman instead of Signet? I feel like fewer players would be interested in playing a rock that pings them every time they tap it for mana than one that's just a straight upgrade over every other two mana rock in the game.
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