All three of my AMF bikes ran great and where very reliable. My 1971 boat tail, 1979 Full dresser and my 1975 XLH. I think most of the negativity comes from people who never even owned a AMF Harley. That being said, Harley has lost its soul a long time ago in terms of tradition. But in fairness, Harley does indeed produce a high quality product with the traditional 45 degree V Twin. Without it, Harley would go under. Even the woke corporate knows this…. I think????

Great video! "History is written by the victors"... I think that is one of the big reasons of "sad AMF years". I would love to see longer video digging deeper into the AMF years. Would be great to hear unbiased inside view.

Had a 1980 Sportster that was a good motorcycle. Never had a problem.

A friend of mine in the 70's had an AMF Harley Davidson mini bike. With the huge fat tires on it. That bike was a blast to ride. If Harley would bring back something like that again, perhaps it would get kids off their play stations, out of the house, and onto motorcycles? I also saw a Harley Davidson version of a snowmobile when i was at their training center in Milwaukee. Again, something that possibly could / would get the younger riders interested in the Harley Davidson brand. But from what i have been seeing, Harley Davidson is going after the Cadillac customers. The ones with deep pockets. And usually so old, it'll be their last purchase.

I remember the later AMF years and the quality control issues...but....AMF was did the design work and prototype of the best engine HArley has ever made...the 1340 Evo. Easy to work on and they run about forever with normal maintenance.

Great early history CJ. I had a 1978 shovelhead. Although it was a blast to ride, it had so many expensive repairs that I sold it in 1991 and bought an '86 FXR Evo and have never wanted to ride anything else since.

My first Harley was a used 1974 1200 Super-Glide FXE (Both kick and electric-start). I loved that bike! Many AMF bikes, from what I understand, were not reliable, but mine was fantastic! My FXE ALWAYS started up by the first or second kick, It NEVER leaked oil (like many Harley's of the time) and it ALWAYS ran great! My only complaint was that the fuel tank was too small (about 3.5 gals W/1 gal. res.). I currently have a 2015 Fat-Bob that I bought new and love the refinements (I still wish I had kept my FXE for friends to ride). There are pros and cons to each. When I was in the Navy and stationed in the Philippines (mid-70s) I had the chance to buy a 59' Pan-head for $1,200! What a missed opportunity! Anyway, I still have my Fat-Bob and love it to pieces! I'd love to have a new Road-Glide, but I don't have $45,000 burning a hole in my pocket, but there's always the lottery! lol To answer your question (Was HD better off under AMF's ownership?) No. Why? Because AMF neglected to invest money into R&D for HD. They were about to dump HD which would have extincted the brand. That's when Willie G. and other investors bought them from AMF. There are many reasons why HD is failing, but primarily because Millenials are not buying them as their parents did! HD's prices have sky rocked beyond the reach of the average Joe/Jane! Willie G. and Co. turned HD around with the New "evolution" engine (Blockhead) which vastly improved the reliability of the engine. My FXE was a simple, but dated "Shovel-head" motor and I absolutely loved that bike, and mine (just speaking for myself) was very reliable! I hope this kind of answers your question. - Cuno

Coincidental to this video, the Harley pan am demo truck was at my dealer today. They were offering free t shirts for a test ride. I’ve been riding adv bikes for twenty years now (currently tenere 700) and I’ve always wanted to ride one of these new high hp adv bikes. The engine grenaded about 1/2 mile into the ride. I say grenade because it sounded like mike Tyson with a aluminum bat was inside the cases trying to get out, loss of power; all manner of lights; limp mode and then a big bang before it gave up the ghost. They had to trailer it back. But hey, i got the shirt😂

Great video. Harley loyalists who disparage AMF would be like modern Jeep owners talking smack about AMC. Respect and honor your past for it has given you a future.

HD isn't unique in its journey. Piaggio was almost bankrupt in 2002 when the Colaninno family stepped in taking it private to save it. Roberto Colaninno once said, "A lot of people told me I was crazy. Piaggio wasn't dying. It just needed to be treated better." Colaninno implement Japanese quality techniques and retrained every employee saying, "Everyone in this company is part of the value chain". In 2003 to increase scale and market size, Colaninno bought Aprilia / Moto Guzzi. In 2006, Piaggio when public as a stock company. I believe AMF, as a conglomerate, understood the financing, investment, marketing, and production side of HD but their critical mistake was they didn't "treat the product or employees better" which lead to their quality issues. Overall, I think Zeitz is doing a great job given the hand of cards he was dealt. The company has direction, focus, gaining on financial stability, and turning our high quality and in demand products. He's "treating the company and product better". The only issue I see is scale. Can HD generate enough free flow cash to fund R&D, product development, and production of new models. The new VVT on the CVO's is a good step but HD needs a full water cooled M8, a lighter touring frame, and begin to expand the RevolutionMAX models (Bronx and 975 PA please). Hopefully, with a new CEO and CTO LiveWire will find itself but they need a segment leading product offering and the new Del Mar S2 isn't it. LiveWire needs to think EV mobility and not EV motorcycles. Like Vespa and Piaggio electric scooters are selling like hot cakes in the EU - solving a mobility problem.

The same corporate conglomeration of AMF that saved H-D in 1969 eventually became its enemy. AMF wasn't just bowling alleys. They had many divisions, producing all kinds of consumer and industrial products. AMF invested a lot in H-D, and the H-D division was always a profitable one for them. But many of the other AMF divisions didn't fare so well, and by the late 1970's the company as a whole was in severe dire straits. Managers saw the writing on the wall, and were seeking other career opportunities before the company went belly-up. This was another one of the reasons that H-D quality really suffered in the late 1970's and early 1980's up until the buyback. The Wheel Division of AMF that made bicycles suffered even worse with quality control issues than H-D did. At least the EVO engine was well in the works at the end of the AMF period, and it gave Willie G. and Vaughn Beals something to build on with the company.

I bought a brand new AMF XLCH Sportster in '75 and still own it although I fully chopped it in '77. Nothing wrong with that bike except for the front brake rotor coming loose on me once. Nothing a bit of Loc Tite couldn't fix.

Great Video, i was 14 years old and just moved from New England to South Dakota (Adopted Dad was an Air Force Res Chaplin) and i traded my G5-100 Kawasaki for a Harley SX125 and Got a Job as the Lot Boy at Black Hills Harley/Yamaha so my career with HD started in the AMF Era, and Frankly i thought it was a great time for Harley with the Italian Aermacchi bikes like my SX and the Sprint back then Harley Had Entry level bikes, it's when i became hooked on Harley-Davidson. and like you pointed out all the innovation during the AMF years, like the FX, CJ are you aware after the FX in 71 that model became the Experimental model, the FXE 1st Electronic ignition, the FXB (Sturgis) the 1st Belt Drive, the FXR the 1st Rubber Mount, etc etc it was AMF that paid for the R&D for the Evo, the Softail and More, i was still just a kid, but when i graduated HS i bought a 77 FXS lowrider and had that bike till 92 with many many trouble free miles , the bad reputation came from just before AMF sold the Motor Co back to the HD Executives the unions were causing problems thus the worst AMF Harleys 79, and 80. Trivia: AMF started out as a company that made Cigarette Machines, most of their machines could be found in bowling alleys. and AMF invested in Bowling, made good profit and then looked atall sports they owned Voit Balls, Sunfish Sail Boats and More. I worked my way from lot boy to dealer GM, and i retired in 2010 and frankly Harley in my opinion is going the WRONG direction and the German CEO needs to be Fired, and i think maybe we the riders should bring back the Flip the patch. my 2008 Road King will be my last Harley

AMF shovel heads were nice motorcycles in 1981. A friend of mine had one and it was pretty nice. I think a motorsports company like Polaris or CanAm would do wonders for Harley Davidson if they were the parent company. The Harley leadership now only cares about the stockholder and will not give two bits about the motorcycle brand. They will run it as long as they can suck money out of it and then leave it to fail after they have all jumped ship.

I think the ideal scenario is that Harley goes tits up and a group of hard core enthusiasts pick up the pieces and build bikes that bring the brand roaring back to life. I won’t be holding my breath.

Idk about that but AMf saved HD for sure my shovel is AMF

I don't know how many dealerships had closed under AMF, but i sure have seen a number of them close under Harley Davidson. The dealership 2 miles from my shop closed up this week. The announcement came earlier this month. Think they would have had a going out of business sale? Never happened. Their motorcycles got transferred to a mega store......

My best car was a Ford Pinto back when I was a college student getting over 100,000 miles, just don’t have someone crash into your rear!!!!!!!

I've owned and ridden Harleys before, during and after the AMF years. On one hand, if it wasn't for AMF there probably would not be a Harley Davidson company today. On the down side, the AMF years were some sad times. The shovelhead was the biggest piece of crap the MoCo ever produced. I say that as a prior panhead owner which was not exactly a paragon of reliability. However, AMF is largely responsible for the development of the Evo which was a great motor and the FXR which was a great motorcycle. Certainly the unions share some of the blame for those dark AMF years. I am not a fan of unions and any "union" that sabotages it's own products is not a friend of the company or the workers they represent. These days, very little of what H-D assembles is made in the USA. And the CEO is not an American or even a motorcycle biker. The MoCo knows *NOTHING* about it's core customer and seems to have zero interest in finding out who they are or serving their needs. Bean counters make the decisions there and they will happily severely reduce the quality of the product if it saves five cents on each unit.The twin cam was a pretty decent platform so H-D gets rid of it for the M8 which has been a poorly designed, poor reliability, insanely overpriced piece of crap. The idiots running H-D seem determined to run the company out of business and I have every confidence that they will succeed.

Royal Enfield is the Harley-Davidson of India and they have a vibrant motorcycle culture because they can't afford to buy a car. If they could they be training them in on a car. Despite the problems they had with employee sabotage and a few problems with outside suppliers they did not have the horrible issues that today's Harley have. They also had a range of motorcycles to fit everyone during the AMF years. AMF did not go after independent shops, they also didn't get into useless litigation about the exhaust sounds that they may try to trademark that which got thrown out of court. They also try to sue the Japanese manufacturers for making their bikes look like a pseudo Harley. Look at the major goofs that they have made in 25 years of self-management. They killed the fuel line of sport bikes and beginner bikes, they came out with the twin-cam that was cheaper to build but was loaded with mechanical deficiencies. They tried the experiment with cheap indian-made Honda clone copies at Harley-Davidson prices of course. They never invested in the company the way that AMF invested in Harley. They built the York engine plant to streamline production. AMF spent seven to ten million dollars investing in Harley-Davidson back with a million dollars was a lot of money. AMF design ed the evolution motor which has been Harley's best motor ever in the modern age bar none. AMF never went after the mom-and-pop Harley dealerships the way the new company has been doing. The management of Harley-Davidson has been blood-sucking the company dry. The live wire has been a expensive and financial debacle. When people wish that AMF still ran Harley-Davidson you know something's up. Finally the last thing they messed up with killing the evolution Sportster thinking that people are going to buy a $15,000 piece of crap nightster.

The aftermarket saved Harley years ago. Hard to say if it will this time. I love my custom vtwin.

AMF was also responsible for the development of the Evo motor. People forget that part when they are complaining about that time. Also, union labor disputes in the 1970's affected most industries; it wasn't just Harley.

Interesting comment on diversification with Polaris as an example....I recall when Harley also made snowmobiles and golf carts....plus there was the AMF era Aermacchi singles for a while, so there is no reason it could not do so again other than shite management.

Very interesting and thought provoking! 🇬🇧

Spot on sir I have 03 softail last year the dealership were i bought my bike told me they can't work on my bike anymore because its older then a 08 So I guess in 20 years they won't work on anything but electric bikes I was a chapter member and a M V P member NOT ANYMORE 😢

AMF Harleys with quality control issues?? Circa 1979, when I first got interested in HDs in Australia, Harley generously "offered" a 3 month or 3000 km warranty - an accurate testament to their confidence in their own product! I tend to disagree though that diversity of products is necessarily a good thing. For me, Polaris is a prime example of this. I think Indian would be better as a stand alone company, at least from a marketing perspectve. When I owned a 2015 Scout I would CRINGE when Slingshot owners would wave to me as a "Polaris Brother" or whatever they thought. I just felt, still feel, I have nothing in terms of "shared experience" with such three wheeled sports car drivers. Same applies to a Polaris snow mobile owners! All power to them, but we have little in common, for me. I also never emotionally felt that my own Polaris "Indian" shared the DNA of the original Indian bikes. Just me. So for me Polais, as a multi product company, is a real negative. It might be good from the company revenue / share holder perspective , but not, for me, as an owner. I mean put it this way - I personally wondered if my Scout's motor shared technology with, say, snow mobiles. Who cares? some may say - but for me, it took away from the ownership experience. AND the Scout had multiple quality control issues as well - but that's another story!

Having riden Hd & living thru all of those years you just described..2 or 3 of your comments were close, with the rest way off factual basis !. Still entertaining..

love it,fascinating docco,,i remember seeing a AMF SUPER GLIDE out the front of a ten pin bowling alley when i was a kid,,i think theyre great,,and wish i had one,,thanks again from australia

Did the audio recording happen only on the left channel ? I hear it only on the left earpiece…

I bought an AMF XLH Sportster new in 1977. I still have it and still use it and wouldn't part with it and proudly sport the AMF decals on the fuel tank.

Let me explain something, Harley can but will not build a rock solid maintenance free motor. The way Harley operates is they want you to upgrade the bikes with screaming Eagle parts, pay the Harley shop to have them installed, pay them for upgrades and bring it in for regular maintenance. Harley makes it money from parts, service And apparel. You have 2 types of people, those who accept that and own Harley’s and those who don’t usually move on to other brands. Anyone who has been in the Harley game knows how they operate.

I've owned thirteen H-D over fifty-three years. Only AMF era was a new 1981 FLH. Quality was in the toilet. Constant electrical problems.

Very well done, CJ.

The problem is the motor co. can't by itself back now and place the blame on former ownership. They somehow have to be competitive with the Japanese brands in pricing as well as production numbers to be able to attract the necessary buyers that would surely keep the co. viable to its investors. They have to swallow their prestige pride and get cheap while trying to retain the quality that has dramatically improved since the AMF era. All while still being manufactured in the USA! THE feature selling point!! So, as far as production numbers, yes they were better off under AMF. But that's where it ends. I know it's not easy anymore with the whole cost of raw materials, and supply chain, blah, blah. We used to have everything we needed to manufacture just about anything without importing anything. F'n globalization put an end to that and now we're f'd right along with them. Doesn't matter who's running the ship.

I had good bikes that were AMF era.

My 74 FXE is still running strong

I seriously doubt Harley's ability to exist in it's present form as a stand alone publically traded company for much longer. They really need to merge with a larger conglomerate automotive group. Unfortunately there is slim pickings for such a merger with a US company. I have been laughed at before for the suggestion, but if you look at the cultural space that Royal Enfield and Harley both occupy in their native countries I think it might be a good match. Royal Enfield is the Harley Davison of India and India does have a vibrant motorcycle culture. Here in the States such a merger would give dealers both the lower cost, entry level, good value RE bikes and higher end Harleys on the same show room floor. The history and heritage of both makes is highly marketable. The only question is would the conglomerate that owns RE want Harley Davidson?

Nice production.

Great video.

I bought a 1977 xlch new never had a problem 2800 brand new

Amazing video well said. 👏

Harley’s are building there best bikes ever and I do hope they stay independent! As for price, Harley is definitely competitive, plus they are a pinnacle brand. Isn’t a Porsche expensive?!

I bought a new 1976 sportster $2500 out the door ,not a bad bike,only regret is i didn't buy a superglide or dresser,they were only250-300 $ more.piss on china davidson of today

Your best bet, if you want an HD, buy an older model, that way you can work on it yourself, if you want my opinion!

So I get an email from HD about a new HD members club??? "H-D Membership is a community platform and membership program that will bring together riders and moto-culture fans under the "United We Ride" banner to connect, engage and ride with one another, according to the company. H-D Membership is intended for riders and fans to enjoy a personalized experience of in-app social features, riding benefits and access to the Harley-Davidson brand. H-D Membership is a new and positive hub for moto-culture - serving as an inspiration to riders and non-riders alike." Membership includes a rewards program with an optional HD Visa card with points. Actually, this sounds like something other motorcycle manufacturers should be doing.

Harley needs to back to the blue collar customers , the disco version of a dealership only scares me off

I love and hate the amf years. I hate the quality control, i loved the cafe bike, the italian bikes, the golfcarts, the dirt bike. So i dont know.

Harley will bud light themselves in no time. After the 120th pride parade, the visuals speak for themselves.

Any CEO for Harley-Davidson thinks that replacing combustible Harley-Davidson engines with electric does not need to be in that position first step is to get rid of that German fuck put someone who rides who knows motorcycles who loves Harley-Davidson you want to keep it the way it is

To say what if Harley-Davidson is sold to Toyota or to a Chinese company? Would Harley-Davidson improves their quality under the ownership of a Chinese company or under the ownership of Toyota? What about if Hyundai owns Harley-Davidson?

HD was always the working mans bike. That meant an average guy could buy it. Well with going to premium brand, German CEO ah hmm, they are pricing themselves out of existence. The Boomers are aging out. The youngest is 59, oldest 77. They are not buying bikes. Next is Gen X, they somewhat are but are less name brand particular. Next is Millenials, and Gen Z. MIllenials , the majority, are so deep into debt from collage they can't afford houses much less "Premium Brand" motorcycles. They could ride a smaller motorcycle, like Royal Enfield offers because it's MSRP if $5k , HD offers nothing. Same goes for Gen Z. They would love to have an HD but don't need a rolling sofa that weighs over 1200 lbs with a center of gravity near the handlebars. They could tour easily with 550-850 cc bike and there young bodies can take it. It's why we use them in military.

Informative review of Harley Davidson’s past to its current status. While I really don’t like publicly traded companies simply because workers get the short end of the stick, I realize it’s capitalism at work. We as Americans love capitalism as long as we are not exploited. Having said that, HD will continue to move forward in keeping their shareholders happy by keeping manufacturing cost low and maximizing profits . In short, one would be foolish to believe HD will continue to make a significant amount of their bikes in America because it’s the right thing to do. Instead, HD will move forward in opening up plants across the globe where labor is cheaper to manufacture its product. It’s already happened with its parts and now there’s talks about introducing a Chinese model. It’s happening folks cause it’s simply Capitalism at work here. I don’t favor it but it’s a reality. HD will survive because the CEO is a sharp cookie and thinks on a global scale. You may not like the high MSRP but the shareholders sure do.

AMF did save the company but by the late seventies the bikes were pretty terrible and overpriced . I live in the UK and can remember road tests in magazines where the test bikes had oil leaking from various places in the photos. In one test of an iron head sportster (the cheapest bike in the range) the bike shed various parts the kick stand fell of early in the test and it ended early with the bike going back to the then importer having put a rod through the cases all this for a not inconsiderable £5500. At the same time you could buy a BMW R100RS as well as a Moto Guzzi 850 Le Mans for the same money and they came with better brakes suspension and didn’t fall apart when you rode them. Fast forward to today the bikes are as reliable as any other manufacturers they come with decent lights and brakes and with the new CVO’s they appear to have sorted the suspension (the last major complaint about the bikes) hopefully the upgrades will trickle down to the rest of the touring range over the next few years. Price wise the bikes are no longer twice the price of their direct competitors and until this year were pretty much level in the touring sector. The fly in the ointment for me are some of the dealerships and their charging a premium over MSRP in the USA and other somewhat predatory practices when selling the bikes. I am not a fan of the present CEO but at this moment in time the politicians are looking to stop the sale of ICE powered vehicles sometime in the next 10 to 20 years so electric bikes should be developed unless a practical clean fuel is discovered .

I have owned a Honda vehicle since my first car in 1993 and many more since.. Now I have a 2022 Ridgeline sitting in my garage because Honda sold and delivered to me quality and reliable product and have won me over for life. I cant say that about American vehicles because they make shit products now and only care about greed.

Harley Davidson would be bankropt if pass employees had not bought the company from AMF

Yesterday Harley was Awesome and today Harley is an over priced joke of a motorcycle

Harley’s, big nasty V8’s, rip the gates of hell down diesels…I think we can thank our government for ruining them all.

Harley is a dying company

Sold all my Harleys accept my 04 Springer including 2 AMF bikes

I hate YT. I wrote something and hit the wrong key and shit went away...Long story short, Zeitz was brought in to bring HD into the future and the alienation was expected. One, he's not american and I mean culturally although he has benefited from the rise of the emperor executive class that has risen in the last 45 years in this country(continuation of my response to #Anton_G_604 ). We've lost balance in economics in this country. When execs make 1000x or more than the average pay, it's a problem. Even 100x. Capitalism taken to extremes is a system that is run by psychopaths and benefits them primarily and here we are. What folks seem to forget in their apotheosis of the 1950s is that the tax structure was different as was the work culture. Unions were more accepted too, but I am digressing. Zeitz will be robbing peter to pay paul with Livewire and I have to wonder what happens when he runs out of cover. It's a bitter pill, even if it was ahead if it's time. I see a bigger problem in terms of business model with dealers and HD with pricing and surcharges. HD isn't a Rolex watch or some other niche high end product where premiumization may be warranted. It's like taking a business plan to suit a shrinking demo that will confirm the shrinking demo instead of expanding markets all the while squeezing as much as possible out of the true believers. If the ship is sinking, you can be assured Zeitz will have a lifeboat and yes, it will be a nice one. I can't help but think PT Barnum is laughing his ass off with glee.