Hi offshore171, Thank you for the comment! Marc

Wonderful!

Hi Dave, Thanks for your comment! Marc

Hi Matt, Thanks for the kind comment! I will keep it coming - any video requests? Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage well since I'm thinking of purchasing a superautomatic, anything new in that category for 2019? Also requested video on Coffee ground recommendations across medium and dark roast. :)

Hi Pascal, You are welcome and thank you for the comment! Marc

Hey Adam, Glad you found them! Marc

Hi KAS, Thanks for the comment!

No problem 👍

Hi WJ, Yes, removing the chlorine improves flavor. Just a heads up as far as I know Brita does not reduce water hardness so you can still get scale build up depending on nyour source water hardness. Marc

Hi Brent, You are welcome and thanks for your comment! Marc

Whole Latte Love Keep up the great content. I’ve learned a lot from your channel!

You are welcome! Marc

Hey AF, Thanks for sharing the love! Never to late as I monitor for new comments. I know there are commercial prep options for creating brew water starting with pure distilled or RO water. They are generally fairly pricey but easy to use. Also need the pure water to start with. But it can work for some users. A few years ago I put out a video on creating your own SCA spec brew water using very inexpensive baking soda and Epsom salt to create your own: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n655as10ldm1iqM.html As I happen to run an RO system at home for a reef aquarium. I'm lucky were I am that are municipal water is soft and of excellent quality. Even with that, I still treat our tap water with one of the BWT calcium to magnesium ion exchange solutions just to be sure there's no scale, remove chlorination and get the benefits of magnesium as an extracting mineral. Marc

Hi Todd, Thank you for sharing your experience and recommendation of the BWT Penguin Pitcher. I would definitely connect an in-line filter for your Rocket EVO R. Marc

Hi JK, Thanks for the comment and question. I didn't get into corrosion in this video. It does come up a lot in some of my comments to those who want to use pure zero TDS reverse osmosis in their machines. RO water is corrosive to metals due to its complete lack of minerals. The filters in this video will not help in your situation. They use ion-exchange replacing calcium with magnesium. One option with pure RO or distilled is to buffer/remineralize with tiny amounts of baking soda and Epsom salt. I have a video on how to make SCA spec brew water using those to treat ultra-pure water. Honestly not sure how that plays into your elevated chloride level but the baking soda should raise the pH. In special situations we have in the past forwarded customer water test results/specs to BWT chemists for advisement on recommended treatment. BWT does have remin in-line cartridge filters for use with RO systems. Here's that video on how to make the SCA spec brew water: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n655as10ldm1iqM.html Marc

Hi Jonas, Nothing wrong with that at all. Some machines are much harder to descale than others - dual boilers! Depending on your source water quality there may be subtle flavor improvements with filtered water. Marc

Hi Laura, Thanks for the question. Have to say I'm not an expert in PEX piping and not sure what chemicals you are concerned with. Filters with activated carbon take care of most chemical contaminants. Marc

Hi Alfredo, 3 basic options: 1. Penguin Pitcher: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-penguin-2-7-l-water-pitcher Cost per liter of filtered water (source water at 8-14°dTH/142-250ppm) first 120L $.35. After that $.10/L 2. Bestsave in reservoir pad filter: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-s-anti-scale-filter Cost per liter of filtered water (source water at 8-14°dTH/142-250ppm) $.33/L 3. Bestcup in reservoir filter with direct connection to water intake: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestcup-m-package Cost per liter of filtered water (source water at 8-14°dTH/142-250ppm) $.47/L All provide essentially same water quality. Hope that helps! Marc

Hi d, The BWT Penguin Pitcher can treat your hard tap water. At a hardness of 12-14 degrees the filter has a rated capacity of 120 liters. The harder your water the lower the capacity. Bottled water (with the exception of mineral and some spring waters) usually is not very hard. Further refining that water through the BWT pitcher would very likely make descaling unnecessary.

Hi S, Thanks for the question. I cannot speak for Brita filters. There are many different types and I have never found a good reference for how they change water chemistry. Most common I am familiar with do particle and activated carbon filtration only. BWT filters like the Bestmax premium and the Bestsave in reservoir pad filters use patented ion-exchange technology to replace calcium with magnesium ions. I'm not familiar with that causing pH drop to the point of creating corrosive potential. So long as input water is safe for human consumption BWT will not cause scale deposits or water with potential to cause corrosion. Marc

Hi ascbeerman, You are welcome. A couple thoughts... First, plumbing a machine is awesome. Sounds like you have an RO system? Do you have an automatic remineralization system on your RO? If your RO has a pressurized collection tank and remin you can plumb that to your machine. Or maybe you're like me, and have an RO without a pressurized collection tank. My tap water is good. I use the RO water for my saltwater reef aquariums. Some options: 1. Large 5-10 gallon under counter reservoir. The 700's rotary pump can draw water from an unpressurized water source. Might need a prime (usually not) to get it going. With this setup you could manually blend a lot of RO water at once. With no water pressure on the plumb line you can't take advantage of the Pro 700's pre-infusion capabilities. 2. If you have a pressurized RO system you can plumb that to the machine. If needed you can remin automatically with a BWT BestMin cartridge: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/bwt/products/bwt-bestmin-premium-m-filter-cartridge We've been testing a pre-production BWT pressurized RO system. It uses A BestMin downstream of RO treatment to mineralize. We use this to feed the various plumbable machines making their way through our employee lounge. You can pipe off to other equipment like ice makers, fridge and drinking/cooking water tap at sink. 3. If you'd like to provide your water test report I can forward that to BWT for their recommendations. They have a variety of options beyond the BestMax for specific water quality issues. Hope that helps! Marc

Hi r, Thanks for the comment and question. Brita makes a number of different filter cartridges. I'm not aware of any designed specifically to reduce water hardness/remove minerals. As far as I know they do particle filtration and use carbon for chlorine/chemical filtration. The Penguin Pitcher does the carbon and particle filtration. Plus it uses ion-exchage to remove calcium and replace with magnesium to maintain flavor and prevent scale. On a per liter basis the pitcher is lower cost plus you can use the water for other purposes. The pad filters do all that but have no particle filtration. Particles generally are not a problem with most municipal water. Pad takes a few hours to do it's thing so if you empty the reservoir more than 1x every 10 hours it's not appropriate for your situation. Marc

Hi Foe, Thanks for the comment. Just know your bottled water quality. It's all over the place. For instance, spring water can be mineral heavy - enough to cause scaling. Marc

Hi MrE, Only real way is to look inside components like the boiler. Removing the mushroom valve (top of E61 group) and inspecting for scale there will give you some idea if scale is happening elsewhere. Marc

Hi Seth, I know the feeling! Marc

Hi Sal, You are welcome and thank you for the kind comment and question. Bottled water can work. But there's a wide range of mineral levels in bottled waters. Even a single brand purchased in different geographical areas may have different levels. Best bet is to check with the supplier on mineral level for their product. If classified as "soft" in hardness at

Hi RC, Used properly, a BWT Bestmax Premium system will serve your needs and provide water quality within these specs as stated by NS: The installation of a water softener is mandatory when the espresso machine is fed with water that has a hardness higher than 3 grains per gallon or 50 parts per million (ppm). The pressure of the water line must be between 2 bar and 6 bar and the water must be cold. The water also must have a filtration level below 5.5 Micron, a total dissolved solids level between 50 and 250 ppm, an alkalinity level between 10 and 100 ppm, a chlorine level less than 0.25 ppm, and a pH level between 6.5 and 8.5.

@@Wholelattelovepage okay, the thank you very much

There’s some effort involved. Usually only respond to 1st original comment and can’t go deep in threads. Great machine! Bestsave is good for reservoir. Best to prevent scale in DB so always treat. Will last longer with lower initial hardness. Marc

Hi Ben, Thanks for the comment. That's a very common way of bringing RO water to a proper mineral level for good extractions without causing scale build up in machines. Many coffee shops and other beverage service have RO systems with a bypass which feeds tap water back in. Marc

I guess im asking the wrong place but does anyone know of a way to log back into an instagram account?? I stupidly lost the password. I would love any tricks you can offer me.

@Briar Grey instablaster =)

@Andres Brett Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site on google and Im waiting for the hacking stuff now. Seems to take a while so I will reply here later with my results.

@Andres Brett it did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. I am so happy! Thanks so much you saved my account :D

Hi Dan, Thanks for the comment and question. The Delonghi filter works on demand so there's no need to wait. Water going into the machine travels through the filter as needed. It's a different story for the BWT Bestsave in-reservoir pad filters. Those do need an overnight soak to do their job.

Hi Jack, Thanks for the question. If your tap water is soft then an average faucet unit with particle and activated carbon filtration will do for removing chlorination or other chemicals. For hard water situations you want something that reduces water hardness. My preference for that is the ion-exchange tech of BWT which replaces some calcium with magnesium. They do not have a faucet mount version. Marc

Hi g, Thanks for the question. Here's a link for the BWT Bestmin cartidge. It's designed to do exactly what yoou need: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestmin-premium-m-filter-cartridge Marc

Hi Luke, Not sure which of your water sources has the 200-400ppm TDS. Whichever it is (or maybe it's both) that's rather hard water and likely to cause scale in your machine. If your RO system is doing 200-400 PPM I'm guessing it has remineralization on the output as that's a high TDS out of an RO. Keep in mind you want some minerals in the water for flavor, to prevent over-extraction and prevent corrosion of metals in the machine. So the goal id not zero TDS. The easiest solution is probably the Bestsave in reservoir pad filters. These work great unless you go through a lot of water as it needs 12 hours in the reservoir to do its ion-exchange magic

Hi E, Thanks for the question. The BestMax Premium has about 20% more capacity per cartridge. We prefer the scale protection using calcium to magnesium to maintain mineral level. Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for your answer. According to what I have read the BestMax Premium should also taste better - but do you know which one is a better protector against corrosion? I bought the BestProtect because I thought it would protect the machine better, but I think it affects the taste negatively.

You are welcome. I personally have not used the BestProtect so cannot comment on flavor. I do like the flavor from the Bestmax Premium filter.

Hi ud, The BWT Bestmax premium does what you need. It does particle filtration, removes chlorine and other chemicals using activated carbon and uses ion-exhcnage to reduce and replace calcium with magnesium: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestmax-premium-filter-package-w-besthead-flex Here's a video showing how to install the system: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/d5aie6ym17GqqoU.html If you are in the US or Canada you can contact our experts here for more detail: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/contact-us

Hi DD, You are welcome and thanks for the question. Unless you are referring to a reverse osmosis system I'm not sure what "nano filtration" is. Could be marketing talk. RO systems use a semi-permeable membrane which essentially allows only water molecules through. RO systems produce water that's mineral free. It's actually too pure as you want some minerals in your water to support flavor extraction and prevent damage to metals in your brewing equipment. RO water can be used but must be re-mineralized after treatment. Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Ooh ok thanks!!!!! :)

Hi c, Thanks for the question. It might be. Only way to know for sure is a complete water test including pH, hardness and alkalinity

Hi JDR, Thanks for the question. The Bestmax Premium is a good choice for high quality non-scale producing water for all espresso machines. Marc

Hi Cody, Thanks for the question. Okay to descale HX boiler machines like the Pro 500. Here's a video showing how to do that: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/r6t3mdx70L23oYk.html For the BWT options, easiest is the Bestave pad filters so long as you do not go through more than 1 reservoir's worth of water a day: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-m-anti-scale-filter The BWT Bestcup is another good option regardless of how much water used: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestcup-m-package With either of those options you should not need to descale your machine. Hope that helps! Marc

Hi MS, Carbon filtration takes care of chlorination it's by-products and other chemicals. Majority of whole house softeners work by replacing minerals with sodium. Can be an issue for those on sodium restricted diets.

Too much sodium in the water from the softener, could affect coffee flavour but if you don't notice or mind it, then you should be good!

Hi TCG, Yes you can use for both. Marc

Hi Cole, Sorry for the delayed response. Products like Cafiza or similar used for cleaning portafilters, filter baskets etc. should not be used for descaling! Those types of products generally contain "bleach like" compounds in addition to surfactants/detergents that you most definitely don't want in your boilers! Descalers are acids. Most common acid used for descaling is citric. It's available in pre-measured liquid and powders. Or, you can purchase citric acid powder in bulk and make your own. Only problem with that is it's a bit of a guessing game as to how much to use. Wish I knew which type of machine you have. If it's a dual boiler most manufacturers recommend they be descaled by a pro machine tech. DB machines have intricate internal plumbing which can get plugged up with scale deposits during descaling. Also can be difficult to fully empty the boilers of descaling solution. Is your machine plumbed in only? Most plumbed machines also have a reservoir you can load with descaling solution to get it into the machine. If it does not have reservoir It probably has a rotary pump. Most rotary pumps can self prime (especially if just disconnected from waterline and partially primed) and take in water/descaling solution from a bucket or similar. So just disconnect waterline from supply and drop in bucket with descaling solution. I'll caution again against descaling a dual boiler machine at home - especially as you mention "...pretty sure it needs it..." Descaling machines with heat-exchange boiler is usually not a problem for end users. Here's a video on how to do that: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/r6t3mdx70L23oYk.html And here's a video with more info on descaling products and how to make your own: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j7eUiZV8x5jKc30.html If you are at all unsure I highly recommend having a professional tech descale you machine. Hope that helps! Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks!

Hi KG, Thanks for the question. I recommend the BWT Penguin Pitcher: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-penguin-2-7-l-water-pitcher Most filter pitchers only treat for particulate matter and chlorination/chemicals using activated carbon. The BWT pitcher does all that but also reduces scale causing calcium by exchanging calcium ions with magnesium ions. Used as directed, it provides the mineral level need to prevent over-extraction and support flavor while not causing scale. Marc

Hi NA, Yes you do need minerals. Just not too much and the mineral type makes a difference in scaling potential. Replacing much of the calcium with magnesium reduces scaling potential.

Hi MBU, Thanks for the question. If using the BWT filter as directed IMO the resin filter is not needed.

Hi Cyndi, Just want to confirm which Gaggia machine you have as there's no "Premium". I'm currently using the Penguin Pitcher for my daily coffee driver a Gaggia Babila. I love it! www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-penguin-2-7-l-water-pitcher It eliminates the need to descale the machine plus I can use the water for other purposes. If you prefer you can use the Gaggia in-tank filters. They'll reduce but not eliminate the need to descale. Marc

Hi do, This BWT Bestasave pad filter will work: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-m-anti-scale-filter The Bestsave requires 8-10 hours residence time in the reservoir to treat water. If you go through more than 1 reservoir worth of water in 10 hours The BWT Pitcher is a better option: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-aqualizer-2-6-l-pitcher-with-illuminated-baselight BWT Does have a push on option, the Bestcup, but the filter head is just a little too big to fit through opening in reservoir: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestcup-m-package Hope that helps! Marc

Many thanks I have ordered the Pitcher and 12 filters to last a year. Great channel BTW@@Wholelattelovepage

@@davidoliver7977 My pleasure - enjoy your Aria and great water!

Hi Don, Thanks for the question. I think you should be okay with the descaling schedule. I have no idea what your local stores are filtering. My guess is they do particulate and activated carbon filtering for chlorine and other chemicals. Probably nothing to control/remove minerals from the water - that's uncommon. Do they provide any data on analysis of their filtered water or their filtering process? It's possible (or not) they could be using reverse osmosis and re-mineralizing the water. That would be fine so long as we knew the mineral levels. Marc

Hi C-BC, I'm not familiar with that brand of water so I do not know. Some brands of spring water are softer than others. Best advice is to test the water for hardness which indicates its mineral level. You want some minerals in the water for best flavor and to prevent over-extraction. So you do not want to use pure distilled or reverse osmosis water with no minerals. Marc

Hi Kevin, The Bestmax premium filter makes excellent drinking water! Many customers have split filter output for icemaker/fridge supply. Some install an additional tap with filter output at sink too. Marc

Hi kl, Thanks for the question. Current packaging on replacement filters says to change every 8 weeks regardless of volume filtered. I'd go with that unless the packaging on your replacement filters has a different number. I know at one point there was a volume in liters or maximum time before change so might be filters in circulation with other capacities. Marc

Hi kra, Used properly yes it will. Marc

Marc, im reading info on the net and some ppl say magnesium is a source of scale. Is that true? Been a while since chemistry class, maybe it has to do with different isotopes of magnesium that cause scale?

Hi Michael, Sorry I'm not back to you sooner! A bit hectic here as I'm without support staff on the video side of things during virus. Anyway, It could work although you'd likely want to use a higher capacity Bestmax cartridge which fits into the same head as in the video. At my water hardness of 7 the S size cartridge is good for 1,070 liters but they have cartridges that will treat 10,000 liters at that hardness. Best bet is to give our tech support a call at 585-924-7170 for a solution. Might also speak with our commercial sales rep who can help with machines. He's help setup and run 100's of commercial operations like yours and would be happy to access your needs and suggest the right machines/grinders etc to get the job done. His name is same as mine - Mark. Hope that helps! Marc

Hi YY, Thanks for the question. The Babila will alert you to descale at some point. It'll just be a lot longer before it does if you use the Aqua Clean Filter. How long depends on the starting hardness of the water used in your machine so be sure to test your water for hardness level and enter that info in the machine. With relatively soft source water and filter use it could be as many as 500-800 brew cycles before the machine alerts you to descale. Marc

Hi DM, Thanks for the question. We do not recommend using pure zero TDS RO treated water or distilled water in espresso machines. It may cause corrosion of metals and over-extracts coffee.

Hey be., For sure! We have a video to show you how: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/d5aie6ym17GqqoU.html Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage thank you!

Hi Austin, Thanks for the question. Water from the Bestmax premium is fine to drink all day. It reduces total hardness and replace some calcium with magnesium. Many users T off the output to feed additional items like sink tap, fridge, ice maker, etc. Marc

Hi Johnny, Thanks for the question. If not plumbing a machine the easiest way to get to a water quality that provides a proper mineral level without causing scale is the patented calcium to magnesium ion-exchange found in BWT Bestsave in reservoir pad filters or the BWT Penguin pitcher. The pitcher produces excellent drinking water too! Either of those options work so long as your tap water is safe for human consumption. See links below for more info on those products. The most basic test is total hardness of water. If using bottled water, it's hard to recommend a specific brand. I have found in the past that a single brand may have differing levels across geographic regions. If testing you want a water hardness considered soft. And yes, do not use pure distilled or reverse RO water. They have no minerals, will cause over-extraction and may cause corrosion of metal components in an espresso machine. BWT Bestsave Pad Filter: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-m-anti-scale-filter BWT Penguin Pitcher: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-penguin-2-7-l-water-pitcher Hope that helps! Marc

Whole Latte Love, Marc, a couple more questions. Does the manufacturer like ECM have the water quality specifications for the machines in the owners manual or what test kit should I buy and the acceptable range for tests. The water from the tap taste good at my present city, maybe a little taste of water treatment they use (chlorine or fluoride ?) and would like to test it, then probably use the BWT penguin if it is not in range. I would like to be able to test the water before and after filtration to get a consistent water number so it will not effect taste, no matter what city I move too.

Hi TF, Thanks for the question. Since you can't plumb the Appartamento You could go with with the BWT Penguin pitcher: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-penguin-2-7-l-water-pitcher That's what I use for reservoir fed machines. Nice as it also makes great tasting drinking water. Another option is in-reservoir pad filters - Bwt Bestsave: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-s-anti-scale-filter Those need about 12 hours soak time in reservoir to do their thing. Both the pitcher and the pad filters use BWT's patented ion exchange tech to prevent scale depositis. Hope that helps! Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage thanks Marc

Hi David, Thanks for the question.My personal favorite and what I use in studio to fill machine reservoirs is the BWT Penguin Pitcher. Used properly no scale will form in machine. Makes great drinking water too: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-penguin-2-7-l-water-pitcher Another option are BWT in reservoir pad filters: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-m-anti-scale-filter Marc

Hi Eric, You are welcome and thank you for your patronage. One common method of raising pH is dosing water with baking soda which is sodium bicarbonate or soda ash which is sodium carbonate. I can't tell you exactly how much to add but you could start with 1/4 teaspoon to a gallon and see what your pH reads then. Hope that helps! Marx

@@Wholelattelovepage thanks, will doing so require me to descale more often after adding baking soda to the reservoir?

Hi Dan, Water chemistry is far more complex than many realize so I feel your pain! I would avoid the resin softener. Depending on other water parameters you could have corrosion which is typically caused by water that's too soft (lacking minerals). I have seen softeners cause a goo to build up in espresso machine boilers. BWT Bestmax Premium can definitely be used for drinking water! Many will install and split the feed off to a separate sink faucet for drinking water. Some split an output to feed a fridge for ice maker/water dispensing. Hope that helps! Marc

Hi Victor, Are you referring to actual acidity like pH or to acidic flavor as in brightness? I've been using the Penquin Pitcher for a few weeks for tap water in the studio for drinking and in a super-automatic machine. For drinking, the pitcher removes a musty tinge from the tap water and the result is a brighter flavor - huge improvement! As far as I know, heating water in a boiler will not affect pH - only thing I'm aware of is chlorinated water potential forming carbonic acid when heated. But, that should not be happening as the Penguin filtration includes activated carbon which removes chlorination and its by-products. Marc

Hi Ben, Thanks for the question. I do not know how long that took. Our service center does a lot of machines and this is a boiler pulled from a pallet. Got to say I've seen much worse. Had a Silvia boiler once that was 90% full of what appeared to be solid limestone. Can't imagine what the owners source water quality must have been! Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage wow.

Hi WCP, It's not a purpose I've evaluated/tested. My guess is since the Penguin uses ion-exchange to replace calcium with magnesium probably not as there will be no calcium in the RO treated water. A couple of other options. You could do automatic in-line remineralization using a cartridge system like the BWT Bestmin: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/bwt/products/bwt-bestmin-premium-m-filter-cartridge You could remineralize manually. Check out my recipe for making SCA spec brew water. It uses baking soda and epsom salts - very low cost: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n655as10ldm1iqM.html Marc

I have a Culligan RO system in my new house. Is there a filter that will fit in my filter rack that can make my water right? Currently there is I am not sure my tap water is safe (high Sulphur). Will the Penquin pitcher make it safe?

Currently there is Sediment, Carbon Block, and Reverse Osmosis cartridges.

Hi RN, If used correctly water from the BWT filter will not cause scale build up in espresso machines. Minerals like calcium and to a lesser extent magnesium can cause scaling but only when the level is high enough. You want some minerals for flavor and to prevent corrosion. The BWT Bestmax Premium filter removes some calcium and replaces it with magnesium. After the filter total mineral level is below the level which can cause scale to form. Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage ah okay. So if I use BWT water, should I still descale maybe once a year? Or should I not worry about it as long as I'm changing my filters?

Hi Corey, Thanks for the question. The SCA water recipe is unlikely to cause scaling - some people do go to a higher mineral level for espresso brew water by using more of the concentrates added to the distilled water and that will be more likely to cause scale. Personally I would do prophylactic descaling every 4- 6 months - better safe than sorry and descaling does not hurt the machine. Just don't use vinegar - especially in a Breville! Marc

Whole Latte Love awesome thanks. I have bought some Urnez dezcal product like you guys recommended. And also after I use the SCA water receipt and I test with the water test strip that came with it and it reads 3 red box on it. Is that count as hard water?

@@zheng1987 Hi Corey, 3 red boxes do indicate water of moderate hardness. But... That's a reading of Total Hardness. The simple test strips do not differentiate between hardness caused by calcium and that caused by magnesium. Magnesium is far less likely to cause scale than calcium. As mentioned I would still descale every 4-6 months. Hope that helps!

Whole Latte Love thanks.

Hi Dat, Most Brita filters I'm aware of do not reduce hardness. But, I'd check the specs of your particular Brita filter to be sure. If it does not I'd consider the Penguin pitcher which does treat water for hardness: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-penguin-2-7-l-water-pitcher It's what I use in studio for reservoir fed semi-auto and super-auto espresso machines. Marc

Hi c, Thanks for the question. Wow! 16ppm is very soft and highly unlikely to cause scale. Filters which come with coffee machines generally use sodium softening to reduce minerals by replacing calcium with the sodium. But no reduction is needed if at 16ppm. Actually should probably remineralize the water a bit to improve flavor.

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the reply! i have subbed thanks

Hi Dan, Re-mineralising (I don't think I'm spelling it right either!) is common and required if starting with pure RO water. Depends on the system used but should provide a proper balance so one does not get corrosion or scale formation. Here in the office we've been doing a long-term test of a not yet available BWT RO system which includes remin after the RO using this BWT Bestmin cartridge which treats ~10,000 liters: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestmin-premium-m-filter-cartridge. It's been running for a year plus in our employee lounge servicing prosumer level espresso machine which get a lot of use and so far it's working well with no corrosion, no scale and wonderful flavor! Other options include bypass systems which combine untreated water with RO treated water in proper proportion to produce a desired mineral level. I see those used in commercial beverage service applications. But requires a tech to get the bypass dialed in properly. Marc

Hi Altug, If it's pure 100% distilled water you can make your own brew water by adding hardness and alkalinity as described in this video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n655as10ldm1iqM.html Hope that helps! Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage thank you! Just wanted to be sure if it's safe to drink even for car use only

GS ... Is that true??? Water Hardness at 120? One of the things that is not communicated in this presentation is owning a water hardness device for $25. I bought one at Amazon because WLL did not give me one upon purchase. But my water hardness based on the device is reading at 21 ppm and water coming out of my ECM Synchronika is at 24 ppm. This does not appear bad but because I have the hardness device, I can check on a monthly basis to see if hardness is increasing. I do not know if WLL will agree with this thinking but I cannot really determine water hardness when I received nothing from my purchase, although it was specified I was to receive it by videos.

@@The72Rabbit All I can go by is what a the test strips show me. The color matches to maybe just over 120 mg/L (ppm). I tried one of the electronic total hardness meters but the results were so variable I could not trust it. I got a batch of test strips and use them as needed, with the result being pretty stable between tests. At 21 or even 24, I don't think you even need to filter yours - maybe Marc will chime in with advice? Also, Marc - if you do offer advice here - any news on the upcoming Expobar secret ? :) Right now I am tilted toward a Pro 700, but if something really changes with the Brewtus I may shift back!

@@GSJester From my experiment here using the HONEFOREST Water Quality Tester, It is a matter of how water even in 6PPMS causes scaling on a boiler over time. My first test ran 24 ppms out of the brewhead. Over a week later and probably 100 more extractions, I got to 27 ppms. I certainly would like to know tests with a BWT System as oppose to discussion. Proof is really on the type of testing. Hopefully WLL can do test rather than having a discussion on BWT so people can buy the product rather than find another outlet. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/q6iWldtkqL3So2Q.html

Hi Vince, When BWT filters are used as directed they prevent scaling in coffee machines.

Ryan Claypole Hi, at 20ppm it’s unlikely you will have scale formation. That’s very low hardness! pH is on the high side of desirable level but may offset your low hardness a bit. With hardness that low there’s a slight risk of corrosion of metals. I wouldn’t worry about that. Does your espresso taste over-extracted? If so you may want to up your remineralization from the filter if possible. Compared to SCA spec your mineral level is low. Marc

Whole Latte Love what’s the PH level and hardness level I should be looking for? I’ll bypass my RO and run tests on my water again tomorrow.

Ryan Claypole Here’s a link to SCA brew water specs: sca.coffee/research/coffee-standards

Hi B, I have not tried or tested RO water through the BWT pitcher. I'm not sure if it would work. I suspect it would not as the BWT uses ion-exchange which replaces calcium ions with magnesium. Since there's no calcium ions in RO water to exchange with I do not think you'll be adding minerals back to the RO water. A couple of options to get a mineral level in RO water. First you can mix up concentrates from baking soda and epsom salts to add to RO water. It's very inexpensive! Here's my video on how to do that: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n655as10ldm1iqM.html Second option is a remineralizing filter like this one: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestmin-premium-m-filter-cartridge A filter solution works best if you can plumb it inline with your RO water output. Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Marc, I thought the BWT system would not work if plumbed with RO water output since almost everything is removed. I am using RO and then manually adding in Third Wave Water powder to each gallon. I am looking for a BWT solution so I can get rid of the manual process. But, the way the water is here I have to do RO first. I don't think the BWT can remove all of the bad stuff we have.

Hi D, As far as I know Brita filters do not affect/reduce hardness. They do particle and chemical filtration via activated carbon. Marc

Hi JJ, Maybe? Bottled water like that is all over quality wise. You'd need to know the mineral content and other parameters. Also, bottled water tends to be far more expensive long term than something like the BWT Penguin pitcher. So long as your tap water is safe to drink and not untreated well water the solutions here will work. Marc

Hi JJ I Live in Arizona I believe the hardness is 6 to 11 if I get a penguin filter will that be safe for my machine and should I still descale

@@jimbobjohnson469 Penguin pitcher should work well. That rating is generally considered moderate to hard which is within range of the pitcher.

@@Wholelattelovepage thank you penguin picture it is

Hi c, Thanks for the question. I prefer to use something like Durgol Swiss Special descaler in aluminum boilers: www.wholelattelove.com/products/durgol-swiss-espresso-descaler or the product recommended by the manufacturer. That said, I have spoken with chem engineers at Urnex who make commercial and consumer descaling products. They say citric acid is okay to use in aluminum boilers so long as contact time of the acid is kept to 20-30 minutes. Hope that helps! Marc

Hi Simon, Thanks for the comment. There may be edge cases in very hard water areas. But I'll add BWT has repeatedly assured me that proper use of their ion-exchange filtering products results in water output which will not cause scale to form in espresso machines. IMO there is a lot of confusion with many different water hardness measuring methods. If I understand correctly it's possible you may be confusing SCA's 68mg/l of calcium hardness with carbonate hardness. Carbonate hardness in the BWT test kit does not measure calcium level alone.

@@Wholelattelovepage Good point, thank you! So does the test kit for KH actually measure the alkalinity here?

@sptglider What bottled water do you use? I’m in the UK also.

Hi A, Thanks for the question. Same water you'd want for any machine. Something with chlorination removed and enough minerals to support good flavor and prevent over-extraction yet not too high a mineral which will cause scale deposits in the machine. Marc

Hi JJ, Filter capacities are rated by the total hardness in dGH. 230ppm converts to 13 dGH. The M filter treats 1,885 liters at that hardness. Use a bypass setting of 2 on the filter head. Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you for that response I want to have drinking water and coffee water I would love to use that filter however that only gives me 1.3 gallons a day there are reverse osmosis systems out there that say they add the minerals back in do you think those would work to keep my machine from scaling up thank you JJ

Hi AA, Maybe. Only way to know is testing the water coming out of the filter. Wide variation in what different brands of fridge filters actually filter. Water hardness level may or may not be controlled by softening. If it is it may not be enough to prevent scale. Marc

I'd ditch the fridge filter and put one on the line. I use a whole home filter just for the fridge because the filters are cheaper and it can pass more water before it needs replacing. A lot of basements I am in the line to the fridge is orange and rusty looking. Mine is white like the day I installed the fridge with a water line about 8 years ago.

Todd T tbh i just bought 2.5 gallons of filtered mineral water and it was a huge difference, tasted amazing

Hi 59, Lot's of detail there! I'm going to forward your chemistry questions/comments to BWT for their suggestions. As to ratios for roasts it's hard to say - lots of opinions and flavor is subjective! You might try some experiments starting with the make your own SCA brew water and then adjust the mineral content and see what you like.

@@Wholelattelovepage At the moment I use Third Wave water, sometimes I mix it with parts of my tap water and destilled water to get different hardness and alkalinity ppm, but I don't know exactly how much Mg, Ca, Na and HCO3 there is in the Third Wave Water. I'll buy some mineral salts and experiment with the ratios. There is an interesting Blog Article by Jonathan Gagné, an Astrophysicist with a faible for coffee, about mixing your own coffee water: coffeeadastra.com/2018/12/16/water-for-coffee-extraction/ There is also an interesting Article by Grindscience.com: grindscience.com/2016/03/dissolved-minerals-in-water-and-their-effect-on-coffee/ Or Fivesenses: www.fivesenses.com.au/blog/experimenting-with-the-effect-of-water-quality-on-coffee/ And Freshcup (by Christopher H. Hendon, who published many interesting articles and studies about water) www.freshcup.com/how-water-works/ I also own the Water for Coffee book by Colonna Dashwood and Christopher H. Hendon. I haven't read it completely yet, but now I have a much better basic understanding about how water interacts with coffee and basic physics, which will make reading and understanding easier and more interesting.

Hi Arturo, Thanks for the question. Most commercial cafes in your situation would likely use a reverse osmosis system and re-mineralize. The RO treatment output is ultra-pure water with zero hardness. To that, minerals are added back via a bypass of some untreated water to a level needed to support flavor and prevent corrosion of metal components in the machine. Hope that helps! Marc

@@Wholelattelovepage peeerfect Now make sense, but is the first time that I hear re mimeralize water from a bypass, do you have any web page that I can read about it and how re mimeralize the water with bypass and what type of nutrient ? Thaks guys, always answering 👋

Hi u, Probably time to change that?

@@Wholelattelovepage probably 😅

Oh Jim, You really must get off the liquor!

Happy Thanksgiving Marc! Cheers bud!

Hi Joan, Thanks for the comment. The Soma filters take care of particulates and have activated carbon for chlorination removal. I do not believe they reduce mineral levels in hard water. Marc

Hi C J, Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm going to push back a bit and say it's well established that pure RO water can be corrosive to many metal types. Please understand I'm referring to ultra-pure RO treated water with zero TDS. Many RO systems employ re-mineralization after filtration which solves the problem. Marc

Hi Mr T, You are welcome for the video and thank you for your comment and question. Always great to hear from customers who take water quality seriously! Very important for espresso flavor and keeping your machine healthy. I looked up Naturally Filtered and it appears it's a carbon block filter system which does nothing to reduce hardness. Please correct me if I'm mistaken. They sell a number of different filters so maybe I'm missing something. I do not think it's necessary to double filter the water. It won't hurt anything if you do. The BWT pitcher has a carbon section so it will do the chlorine etc. removal in addition to reducing calcium hardness. Marc

Whole Latte Love Thx Marc! They used to state the scale build up would be reduced and we found this true in kettles but never was sure for the ECM Tech machine. Their filtered water has a cleaner taste than the bwt filtered water but that may be the added magnesium that we’re not used to. I’ll continue to use the penguin filter on its own from here on now in the ECM reservoir. Many thanks, T

My pleasure!

lol

@@Wholelattelovepage hey how have you been? Quick question... are you able to provide a clear and simple formula for brewing water using distilled water? One recipe for filter coffee and 1 recipe for espresso? I would imagine there would be different recipes for each brewing method. I already have gone to sites like Barista Hustle but I can't find just a simple and clear recipe for both. It is information overload and I am overwhelmed. Thank you in advance. I really appreciate it.

Hi v, Brita filters typically do not treat for hard water by removing/reducing mineral level. I'm not familiar with the treatment pouch you mention. Outside of products from BWT most softeners use sodium to soften (reduce calcium level) the water. Most of those when used as directed should prevent scale formation in you machine unless your water is very high in calcium or has other edge case issues. If your water is not extra hard and you soften then you should not have to descale.

@@Wholelattelovepage Bilt Osmotic Scale Reduction Oscar 150 Cloth Pack/Limescale Inhibitor - its similar to the BWT you have - i found t his one years ago and been using it ever since - i wanted to check and ask you guys in case - i am doing it wrong - so far so good with the Unica - thanks for the quick response - this water debate is very unclear - who says one thing - who says another - i will test my water now with the TDS and PH meter to get an idea - keep up with the videos

Hi Jason, Thanks for the question. I'd suggest running your municipal numbers through this Langelier Saturation Index calculator: www.lenntech.com/calculators/langelier/index/langelier.htm It's not perfect. Water temp only goes to 80C and your boiler runs far hotter. Probably 254F/123C with higher temps increasing scale potential. At SCA specs scaling should be minimal but TDS does not differentiate between calcium and magnesium. One thing you can do is pull the mushroom valve of your E61. If scale evident there there's likely scale elsewhere. I'd prophylactically descale every 3-4 months. Marc