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*Checks to see if EA has partnered with Zero*

Imagine saving up, paying to unlock a feature years later, and finding that the feature is broken and you're out of warranty.

I feel like this is a close cousin to the "right to repair" objections that have made John Deere become quite a nasty headache for owners.

I was considering a zero but this completely changed my mind. Great info. Thanks for this.

Greed is repulsive, and "in game purchases" are a very good example of corporate greed in full bloom. This equipment is already installed and charging for is after the fact is criminal. NEVER for me,.......ZERO chance.

As a former owner of a Zero SR/F, I was one of those who brought into the eco idea and went electric as an early adopter. The bike performed well (in the city, useless for longer distance due to poor range). It cost next to nothing to run though cost a small fortune to buy. At the time there was none of this pay to unlock features nonsense. I can easily see the bike getting bricked though, as the software and patching was very unreliable during my time of ownership. My bigger issues with Zero are the build quality, reliability, and customer service. I had my SR/F for about 2 years (2019-21). During that time I had two major warranty claims resulting in the bike being out of action for 6 months (25% of its life)! The first issue was due to water getting into the electrics (bike was poorly manufactured and the relevant components were not properly sealed). This meant a new "spider bus" was needed (rewiring the bike I presume). The second issue about 12 months later was related to lots of electrical errors (lights failing etc.). After investigation I was told the main vehicle battery was faulty and needed to be replaced. That was the nail in the coffin, so I got the bike repaired and sold it as quickly as possible. These warranty issues didn't cost me anything except for significant amounts of time, stress, and a big hit in depreciation. Funnily enough, I replaced the Zero with a Triumph Tiger Sport 660. A bike with a relatively low starting price, where you can add physical tangible options (i.e. heated grips, quickshifter, luggage) to spec it up as desired instead of paying to download patches to unlock features which should already be there. Another supposed positive of electric is the lower maintenance cost. There's no oil, filter, spark plugs, etc. However, a serious drawback for Zero is that the service interval is just 6 months or 4k miles - about half that of most petrol bikes. Ironically, as my dealer was too far for the range of the bike, they had to send out a (diesel) mobile servicing van each time. In my 12 years of biking and 8 motorcycle purchases they have been by far the worst customer service experience I've had to endure. Utterly unhelpful. tldr: Stay well clear of Zero.

Thanks for calling them out guys. These practices are getting more common and yes it is a dystopia for anyone who enjoys the freedom of "owning" and modding your vehicle.

First video on my search for an electric motorcycle, instant subscription. Thank you for your honesty and integrity. Much appreciated!!!

I would be more okay with this if manufacturers didn't try and sue anyone who hacked the vehicle and sold their hack to other owners (*cough tesla). That's like a manufacturer sueing a company for selling slip on exhaust or high flow air filter

Seams the second a company adds saving the world to their business model they're about to engage in morally sketchy and exploitative practices.

Former Zero DS owner. It was my first bike, but I don't know that I'd get another electric bike anytime soon. The DS was fun, but range was poor, the headlights were terrible, I had a major electrical problem(thankfully) right before year two and I thought it was very expensive for what you got. I got a Yamaha bike for less than half the cost, no repairs needed in three years, has a nice stock headlight, still gets 70+mpg, etc.. much better value. Also, if your riding a relatively quiet gas bike, wind overpowers the exhaust sound at speed, so I don't know the zero being quiet is that big of a deal. Zero is dirt cheap to operate, but with my other bike 70+ mpg works for me. The price would have to really come down for me to consider another one and this business model sucks.

Great, quality and practical review. The end roll got my sub!😂

The worst part is, that you are already PAYING for these features when you buy the bike hardware wise. The company associates the cost of, lets say the heated grips into the cost of the bike when it's sold because they can't lose that money if you never decide to pay for the feature. So you are pretty much paying for heated grips hardware, then they want you to buy the ability to use them after the cost of hardware was already associated with the bike on the purchase.. Has to be the scummiest sales tactic I've ever seen. Pretty much bought it 2 times.

I love that the greed of EA has taught other companies to be worse

Well this video saved me from buying a Zero Bike. What about the Livewire? I wanna go electric for my work commute.

I was just talking about this the other day thank you for summing it up in such a entertaining way and informative way!

The worst bit is the 20% of battery that's software locked, not just a chunk of battery you can't use, but a large piece of deadweight that you're carrying around.

Thank you for making this video. It is important that we as the riding community condemn the microtransaction bullshit. Motorcycles are one of the last strongholds of regular people DIYing major reparis and modding the stuff you own. It is important to protect that, especially because this is in no way limited to electric bikes. This kind of thing could happen with any motorcycle, it just happened to be an electric one to do it first.

Thanks for the update I was really looking forward to going eco to drive back and forth from work but I didn't realize the cons of it. This really helped

We recently started toying with the idea of carrying Energica bikes at the dealership where I work. They sent us a demo EsseEsse9 RS to play around with and I must say I'm impressed. Pricey with a lot of upgrades available as build options but they are really nicely built. We'll be getting their other 2 available models which are sport bikes and I'm eagerly waiting to get those because they come with a drastic power increase over the model we have.

BMW, Detroit3, and other major auto manufacturers are doing product research to see if people are willing to pay subscriptions for features on their cars. Live in a cold climate? $12 per month for heated seats. Because profit margins are so low on the cars themselves, they would make more money on subscription services than selling cars. Of course, I'd like horrible pain inflicted upon those who consider subscriptions on hardware they already bought a good thing.

One really big issue you didn't touch on is right to repair with these bikes. Typically, an induction motor is "dumb", it doesn't need any smart electronics beyond say a motor controller, which really just determines how much power to send to the motor. Zero motorcycles puts a chip in their motors that prevents you from basically servicing it yourself, or at a third party mechanic. If the motor breaks, you can't fix it, you need Zero to. And the same is true for the battery bank. Imagine if you had to take your motorcycle or car to the dealer for spark plugs and had to use OEM spark plugs and any other brand would brick your entire bike/car.

Hey radical pubes, just wanted to say I’m sketched about buying my first bike but your videos are very informative. Mostly watching your noob videos but your mannerisms and terminology make my chuckle and I appreciate the content. Stay safe!

Amazing explanation. To the point

Two points to add. 1. When these bikes hit the secondhand market, will these additional functions be *'de-activated'* and then the new owner required to pay for the features to be *'re-activated?'* 2. BMW has already started to incorporate this *'feature activation'* marketing model with some of its ICE cars.

I don't normally feel the need to comment on videos on KZfaq, but you've successfully talked me out of getting a Zero. I really wanted an electric bike, but I had no idea Zero was pulling this crap.

Appreciate the honesty!!

Thanks for making this video. I almost bought one of these until they started talking about these options.

This practise should be ILLEGAL! Thank you for making the video. These companies need to be named and shamed. Only the consumers have the power to stop it 👍

This is really nice. Few things you should know, if you already don't: 1. Ducati comes with heated grips installed, but you've to pay to unlock them. I believe they also run the navigation "unlock" scam on their desertx model. 2. Ktm already runs this scam with their "tech pack" riding modes unlock BS. Even bmw did this with the s1000rr for the pro modes. 3. Triumph runs the throttle map scam with the street triple r & rs where its the same engine but with a severely limited throttle map for the R model. You can cure it with a flash. The tiger 850 is also the tiger 900 engine with a limited throttle map to differentiate the models. Also unlockable with a flash. Triumph would run this scam with their first gen 765 S model as well. They may not be as bad as zero's approach, but it's been around.

Basic lack of understanding of economics here. ZERO doesn't force you to purchase the big battery or hot grips. By making one model, they save everyone money. You enable just the options you want. What is the difference between going to the dealer and installing hot grips or the factory "enabling" them? You still get the option when and if you want it. This video is plainly spelling out it just wants all options for free. If you want GPS, head down to your dealer and they will replace your dashboard with a new one with faster CPU, GPS, and maps. What's the cost of that. I vote for enabling it.

your the greatest, thank you for sharing.

Between poor range and lack of infrastructure supporting them, Electric Motorcycles didn't need more reasons to be considered a bad purchase, as those issues could be resolved in time. But an E-bike that pulls macrotransaction lootbox bullshit that gamers already find egregious JUST to unlock the full capability of the equipment pre mounted on the bike?!?! I can't think of an idea that would kill them off faster.

You missed another big question. IF you pay to unlock these "features" & sell it second hand down the line, does the new owner get to keep the unlocked features or do they have to buy them again? 🤔

Great video. Hope some of the big companies can enter the electric market with more honest models.

ngl that speed3 is def one of the cleanest ive ever seen.... as a 3 owner myself im lovin it brother

Thanks for calling this out. The only thing worse would be a pay-per-year licencing model for features, or even to turn the key. Been happening in other sectors for years.

Honestly if this becomes even more prominent across cars and bikes I can see an underground market of people cracking the vehicles to get the features for cheaper.

i love the ending seconds of these videos

I'm definitely getting one of these bad boys!

Been watching YN for quite some time now, and I have to say, this is probably the slickest production quality I've yet seen; kudos to you guys! Cheers for all your great content over the years - here's to 2M subs.

BOYCOTT ANTI-Repairable Apple wannabe's "Zero Motorcycles". They go against a century of motorcycle culture in every way.

Okay so as an early adopter of a 2016 FXS I do have some real world input to add to this discussion. The 2016 model has no fancy operating system with feature unlocks or any of that. It's just buy the bike, charge it and ride it. Simple stuff. 1. Poor range?? Yes, absolutely. The infrastructure is great for cars, but also, lacking for bikes. 2. You can get a car-style charging upgrade for the more expensive models, but that costs extra. Why isn't it standard, and why does it cost over a grand? 3. In my particular usage case, I don't use the bike for long trips. I use it for commuting, which means all the charging is done at home. All the trips I do make with it are well within its operating range. With this point in mind, and at a cost of £0.02 a mile, wether or not this bike makes any sense depends ENTIRELY on your annual mileage. My annual mileage is less than 10k, meaning that in the UK, I save about £1,000 a year in 'fuel costs'. It would take me very long time to save the price difference given how expensive electric bikes are up-front. However someone who commutes more miles than me could possibly realise savings within a couple years. 4. Other savings come from the minimum mainenance these things require. A lot of you are probably thinking the battery is gonna get shot and need replacing, thereby undoing any savings, but if we go by what we know about EVs from real world usage, this is generally not an issue -- the warranty is 5 years I believe, so less than that of car batteries, and these batteries are actually pretty damn reliable. But who knows, my mileage isn't that high. 5. The bike is pretty fun for me, I don't need to change gears to enjoy riding. There's something to be said for the torque, responsiveness, and the quiet actually creates a... different kind of riding experience. It feels weirdly like flying, it's very smooth. Without engine vibrations you feel every bit and bump in the tarmac in a lot more detail. 6. I have had an overall negative experience with Zero's aftersales. I had an issue where a dealership fucked up a firmware update (my bike was before the OTA models so they had to do it in-workshop) and I had to chase and chase and chase their support to get the issue fixed. The newer firmware slowed the bike down and they plugged it into their engineer's laptop and insisted it was showing it as healthy and fine. Two months later I took it back to them again and THIS TIME they told me I was running really REALLY old firmware and i'd somehow been rolled BACK to earlier firmware by the dealership who I went to for the update?! 7. I'm not against electric motorbikes as a thing, but I would rather go with a BMW or something if there's a compelling offering and a fair price. The build quality is OKAY but for the price you would expect more. The pillon seat feels really dodgy (it bends down a lot when sat on), the shock spring seems to attract rust like nobody's business no matter how much I try to treat it. I had it conk out at 70 mph once, and it didn't just start rolling to a halt, it regen braked, luckily I had a shoulder to pull onto. Keyed it off and on and never had the issue again, but I believe it occurred because I used their smartphone app to set the Custom Mode's torque to maximum, which kicked in a failsafe when I opened the throttle wide. Someone then suggested I set to 98% max in the app. And whatever possessed them to use a car's side light bulb as a headlight for the FXS, IDK. You only get LED on the really high end models which is baffling.

Thanks a lot for the video. Really nice review. Dont know what to think about zero tho

Immediately I think of people hacking into the bike to unlock the features by themselves, I remember seeing that piracy ad where it says "you wouldn't download a car" well now I can download a motorcycle!

I have a 42 year old oil spitting musclebike. It's particularly good at anything, but it won't ever tell me to update or buy shit trough an app before I can ride it. 0 tech, best tech.

😲Wow! What a RIIIPPP!!! 👍Thanks guys!

I had an FXS and there really wasn't anything to upgrade. I bought the high speed charger but I never even took it out of the box. I just plugged it in to a 15 amp outlet overnight and never had any problems. I never took it more than 100 miles on the freeway, mainly because it wouldn't go any farther than that. Around town it would go more than 300 miles before I got "range anxiety". I loved it. I miss it. I had a pinched nerve in my neck and had trouble keeping an eye on the cars around me so I sold it because I know the lithium Ion batteries only last 5-7 years. I will probably get another one later. I miss it. I think I said that already. LOL.

I've been doing I.T. for about 20 years now. You see this in software all the time and it doesn't seem nearly so offensive in that context. Note, this is in a professional setting, not with video games. I have observed over the years that people, when unlocking features of software that they already have, seem to appreciate how easy it goes. They like how instant and seamless it is. They know they paid less and got less. Then they can pay a little bit more and get the rest without buying the entire thing all over again. They LOVE it. This is the laziness and uncritical-ness (if thats a word) that has been sinking the western world for the past 40 years. "They" are going to try to do this with everything.......and I mean EVERYTHING going into the future. Fight this on all fronts with all your might. It is evil. And it is everywhere.

I appreciate you guys going over all this. It's something that bothered me when I saw their Cypher store but it's good to see someone going over all the details and explaining it in an easy to understand way for the average consumer who may not have known about it. I enjoyed the Zero SR/S on the demo ride I did but this kind of thing would shy me away from getting one

Doing a high pitched voice and waving your hands doesn't make talking about battery capacity any more nerdy than talking about engine displacement. There's nothing wrong with being a nerd about something, just embrace it.

Great video! It's the truth!

OK I get it. It's easier and quicker to manufacture all the bikes all the same with all the parts. I also get that with electric vehicles dealers and manufacturers are going to lose out big time on future costs with servicing, no filters, oil, plugs etc. But these unlocking costs on an already expensive bike take the piss.

Here in Dubai there is a well known shop that unlocks all of these features for approximately 200 dollars but it voids the warranty of everything on the bike since they programmed the "ECU" memory in a way that it stores how many times its been removed or tampered with and there is no way around it EVEN when there is no electricity or power to it unless you leave it off for 257 days then you can tamper with it freely according to the guy who owns the shop.

Great video guys, also I love the wiggle stick shirt btw (it’s always cool to see fellow Strat players 😎👍).

Clear and excellent

It's like that company who sells airbag vests that cost mid 3 figures and doesn't work unless you pay a monthly subscription.

Genuinely been thinking of getting a zero as a beginner bike as ive heard good things from those who've started on one but the micro transaction esc push for unlocking features here is definitely something i didn't even think of as i never thought any company would stoop that low. None the less id still like to get an electric bike for a beginner bike this just has me reconsidering how to go about choosing the right one for me. Dropping damn near 15k on one and not having the full potential at my fingertips yet definitely doesn't sit right with me. THANKS FOR THE INFORMATIVE VIDEO!

Keep it!!!!

Great video guys :)

Is it just me, but it is definitely getting harder and harder to find trustworthy companies nowadays, they all try to pull some kind of gimmick. Currently having so many issues with online subscription cancellation where they continue the monthly auto-billing, similar to email subscription where you can't unsubscribe from their email list and need to threaten with legal action in order to get removed is getting beyond ridiculous.

Spent a few hours on an street version zero a friend of mine bought. Out of the hole torque was incredible. After a few minutes of killer take offs, I realized the bike just lacked a soul. No sound, no gear selection, no clutch, just absolutely not for me.

8:50 lol wasn't expecting that

Great video thanks for sharing

Damn, I was seriously thinking of adding an electric bike to my garage but these are all good points. Maybe I’ll wait for some other bike manufacturers to create more competition in the market to keep the others in check. I’m anxious to see how the new Triumph electric turns out in production.

I did a demo day ride on a Zero SR/S about a month ago. Every complaint/concern you have about Zero's business model is spot-on, as are your complaints about range/recharge issues. As consumers, we cannot allow companies to do this "pay to unlock features your product already has" crap....that path leads to a really nasty place. I'm going to give Zero a pass on the high starting price on their products, as the same can be said for every electric motorcycle manufacturer. Eearly adoption = no economies of scale yet = really expensive. ABS used to cost a fortune on new cars once upon a time as well. However, I do have to give Zero a couple things: IMHO: looks great, handles great, and mid-range acceleration (20-70MPH) is insane.

Thanks for the great video. Was about to buy a zero but this video changed my mind. Unlocking features is a total scam.

Never buy an electric bike that requires any sort of subscriptions, apps, or internet connectivity. What you need to do with this bike is strip out the ECU, disconnect everything, re-wire it sll yourself with off/on switches, and then replace the ECU with an aftermarket model rated for the voltage and amps for that motor. I would also recommend installing a secondary 12v battery to run the aux while the bike is off.

Dude my zero is now officially a lemon

I've said it before and I'll say it again, once the big three start selling electric bikes, Zero will be the companies net worth. There business practices may make money now, but they will never produce brand loyalty.

I love my CBR500R, I tour all over the region on it and will be touring the nation this fall. It’s a great bike.

Thanks. I was about to buy an Zero S but this is making me think twice.

Waiting to see if an aftermarket ecu company comes up with a way to jailbreak them like smart phones and not just give you everything that Zero locks but more shit that may be doable with clever programming.

Man, humans suck. But thank you for being honest about this. I have really been watching and well saving to try and get an electric bike. I really had my eyes set to Zero. But I am rethinking it all now. Thank you for the brutal honesty.

BMW announced a similiar practice for their cars recently. Although they market it as buy the option you are financially comfortable with at the start, pay for upgrades later. You can still buy a fully specced car and have everything out of the box or pay a monthly subscription fee for additional features like active cruise control or auto(sensors turning them on and off when needed) highbeams

the bullshit (beep) comes in to late. 🤣🤣🤣🤣you guys are hilarious/ excllent work

I'm glad you disclosed the bike was on loan from a channel partner, and they're in a round about an owner of Zero motorcycles, but holy crap how can he watch this video and think "yep, my company is selling a good product that'll make lots of money"?

Not sure about other manufacturers but KTM has been playing this game with the electronic features on their bikes for a while now ... the original 790 Duke being the exception as that came with everything unlocked as stock. Buy an 890 or 890R or even a Super Duke R and you'll be looking at paying extra to unlock things like the quickshifter, track mode, launch control, TC adjustment etc etc ... things that are already physically on the bike, just locked behind a paywall 😐

I was thinking about this… Some things like quick charge & increased power both increase the chance of early failure. It is limited for warranty reasons, because increasing wattage increases the chance of failure. That increases the chance of premature failure, and increases the chance that they'll be paying for it, so it's like they're selling you a lottery ticket. Lowering the limits by software lowers their calculated costs, which lowers the cost to you for a basic version. The heated grips option is stupid, but the power related upgrade expenses make sense.

Thanks for this important video! I was considering a Zero F/X, but homie don't play the paywall game. I'm now going to buy a DRZ400. No tech at all, but it will be all mine. Can't shut that thing down from space. :D

Man! I'm glad i found this video! No Zero motorcycles for me! It's already an abusive practice in the videogame industry, imagine putting down a whole year of paychecks on a brand of motorcycles that uses the same money extortion practices (as the videogame industry) when we already bought the bike at full-price? - F#&@ NO! F#&@ Zero motorcycles, and any other brand that might use these tactics.

The “owners” are simply buying a license to USE those extra features and they really don’t “own” those new features.

These unlocks around the battery are to do with warranty - they are simply letting you beat up the battery vs risk. Covering their ass with the offset.

Thanks for the warning! I'm sticking with my 'busa and ZX-14R for a while longer.

That's just ridiculous, i'd call it anti-consumer. If those things were like options you could choose, just like trim level it would make some sense..

Having owned an electric bike exclusively for racing, it’s interesting to see where the market is going. I might go electric if I lived in a large city, but not here in New Mexico…

Adding to the stories I had a used 2014 SR in 2018. It lasted a month before I begged a dealer to take it off my hands. Motor overheated at highway speeds, range was reported at 120 miles but I got more like 40, and I could not find anyone nearby to work on it. I had one update done and it caused the battery to stop charging past 88% Having to plan your trips (highway to dealer, side roads back) and few accessory options took all the fun out of riding, even for someone who just goes to work on their bike…

I was completely sold on these but the dealer didn't tell me about all of this. I was about to pull the trigger and get one, but this has me thinking I need to look into other options. I'm definitely not down with those type of questionable business practices.

I've been tentatively researching to buy an electric bike. The moment I heard about the locked battery, they PERMINENTLY removed themselves from consideration.

Wow it sounds like EA made a bike

As a Zero S owner I fully concur with EVERYTHING in this video.

Lighten up, Francis. What's the difference between having those options onboard, and buying a base model I.C.E. motor? It left the factory in the cheaper configuration, and you can alway upgrade if you want. Oooh- new ideas. . . very scary!

I’ve wanted a Zero FX for YEARS. But I wanted to see how Zero holds up with time. Can’t wait for em to go out of business or fix what they’re doing. Just make these features standard and charge more. Reverse gear should be free on an electric motorcycle. You’re just making the motor go the other way. Costs nothing. I can’t wait for an electric FZ-07. Or electric TW200. Or electric hybrid R1 with a motor up front and some motors to help the trans or rear wheel etc.

That about them being able to just cut the bike's power from an orbital strike update is such a good point that I haven't even considered. Obviously they won't, not to the average rider, but the fact that they could is so sus to me

Name says it all, MIC DROP

Thank you. I thought of buying one of these . But know I won’t touch it with a 10 foot pole . Thanks guys .

It is a scummy business tactic, but it could be worse. They could lock the potential of the bike behind subscription tiers, never actually giving you the option to make a one-time purchase like many apps do nowadays. That being said, as much as they cost it should come with everything unlocked to be competitive.

Actually you need to buy 2 of these so you can charge one while you ride the other during your session at the track

Still keeping my Suzuki GS500E still good and lots of fun...