I live in a country where every officer needs to know First Aid (If not you can't bei an officer and every few years, I don't know anymore, they learn it again.) and If they use their weapon in any way they need to explain why and what happened, ect. They learn over a long time how to be a good cop and and and. I heard in america is the "learning phase" for a cop 9 months. Is this correct? I think it's two or three years in my country. It would be a good beginning to work on that, to give them more time to learn how to make the job. We have problems with the police too, but it isn't the norm and because of that it's always a big thing for the public where I live. In Return we have trust in our police system. Not always, we have problems too, more Tan enough, but you know what I mean.

I know it wouldn't correct all problems to give them a better education in how to make the Job right, but it wouldn't hurt, I think. Maybe I am just naive, because I don't live in america and don't live with all this problems with the police.

@@followthewhiterabbit884 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rc-CiLOXzJeYmmQ.html They desperately need training

@@illuminahde In my country the learn how to negotiate without any violence and to stay calm and make decision in a stressful Situation, but how to take a weapon from a criminal with minimal force too. Maybe it's because our gun law is very strict and I never expiences it different, but it just seems dangerous to give someone a gun who never learned all these things. It's just so strange to see someone "assist" an officer while he arrests someone. Our system has problems too, I don't say ist the best or it works all the time, but a proper Traininng would be a great first step I think.

@@followthewhiterabbit884 Agreed. If you listen closely in the clip you can hear the officer getting upset. This is because they are trained in the military to use overwhelming force to subdue. This is a big problem. Learning to properly control a suspect on the ground could prevent so much. Think about how that officer would have acted if that guy wouldn't have helped? When the dude reached for his gun, it's pretty safe to assume somebody was getting shot. As big as the cop was he didn't know how to use his weight. He had to be coached by a civilian. That's a problem.

Let's not pretend lying is beyond the realms of a lawyer. It's literally their job to try and get their client off by all legal means. And they get to sit there and lie without the threat of perjury. That officer will be fired for lying on the stand.

​@@Darkpara1 yes,prosecutors also lie to win their case because it is literally a game to them.

​@@Darkpara1Yeah dood, but there aren't roving packs of lawyers roaming the streets trying to ruin people's lives for no reason.

@@Darkpara1 If you had bothered to watch the series or the video essay you'd find out most officers aren't even disciplined for lying on the stand.

Good on her.

The thing that bothers me the most about this video is how issues like this are completely overlooked. Police aren’t the only thing in need of reform, everything is. The police are just the most obvious and David Simon addressed that in both The Wire and We Own This City but people completely overlook that. It’s sad to see one issue go overlooked because the most obvious one takes all the spotlight.

The more time I spend in the social work field, the more I realize that due to the objectives of the field, it can't really be allowed to have that much power and coexist with institutions like the police, the courts, and the larger justice system as a whole. If it had the economic, political, social, and cultural power to achieve its goals, it would likely cause radical change within those institutions or make them redundant enough to lose importance & power. Because of this, it's going to be very difficult and or impossible to have social services in many cities across the country even close to properly funded without some sort of political & economic reform.

Yeah, Child Protective Services is just as corrupt as the police

@@Ellman1231 yess. My biggest complaints were that we didn't have the power to criminally charge the worst abusers, and that there was no such thing as preventative services. Pair that with a culture of keeping cases open, "just in case," and it's easy to feel like a cog in a machine that exists to justify itself.

@@andreaobaez864 100%. It's very easy to see why so many leave the field feeling burned out & jaded. I was originally offered a job with child protective services right out of getting my undergrad degree, and a mentor of mine talked me out of it. She said that even though the money was a little bit better than other jobs I qualified for, if I went into a job like that with little to no experience setting boundaries with clients as well as supervisors, I would burn out within a year. My first job ended up being within the addictions field instead, and it's probably why I'm still a social worker (with several slight burnouts along the way).

This comment could have been about Rochester NY. Last year in November the city abruptly kicked everyone out of an encampment and moved them to a rat infested lot next to a sewer. They also had no warning. Luckily a comrade from my DSA is really involved in unhoused outreach and got a UHAUL over there quickly so people could take their belongings with them. I had just started participating in the DSA and was supposed to hand out supplies that very week at the encampment. I was shaken to the core at how fast the city just came in fucked everything. There were local nonprofits involved in helping the people of that encampment and it was shut down by the city without a second thought. I have since done outreach near where the encampment was and everyone I met was a kind and gentle soul. Fuck the police and fuck the city for their cruelty.

Send this Dr. Rashad Richey

This shit sounds like a lot of what goes down in Sacramento. Will boost.

This thing happens in many mid-large cities across the country, regularly. Police don't even have an ethos. They don't uphold the law. They don't protect. They are basically just a gang with gov backing.

​@@theprecipiceofreason this is true - i mostly wanted to bring in another specific case.

Have to say its pretty interesting that Berenthal took this role considering that you can find him posing next to Punisher skulls with the thin blue line on them, and at NY Comic Con I believe he even talked about how he was excited to play the character because of how much the Punisher meant to law enforcement. Maybe after 2020 he did some reflection.

@@galactic85 he might just be a bootlicker, tho

@@galactic85 Wait...did he not know he would be portraying an extremely bad cop?

@@galactic85 he's a cop bootlicker but he occasionally says some based stuff but then also goes on joe rogan and says he has no idea what toxic masculinity is , when he played shayne on the walking dead lmao

@@darthekul1 says the commie bootlicker.

I think some people would justify or defend the police officers' actions.That's true,isn't it?

Ok, horrific incident, what's your point? That horrific things happen involving police officers? Wow, we never knew that.

@@Al-ji4gd You can move on if you don't like this comment spreading awareness about a situation instead of being a bitch about it, nobody is gonna hold it against you.

@@hadihambali1627 No, no one who knows anything about the case does that. No need to create some kind of false argument.

@@Maya_hee Spreading awreness? It's all over the shop..

Yeah he looks like his head is pi-bald, if he shaves his head he looks cute, like a piggie~!

@@Vesta_the_Lesser It's alopecia areata.

As a person who suffered from stress induced alopecia from the age of 10. Im so glad that stage of my life is over.

Really love this comment, it's a beautiful tribute to the city. I've never been (just another English superfan of The Wire) but after watching so much TV set there, I find myself oddly invested in its future...

You are not entitled to reparations. As far as school goes, only 7% percent of students in Baltimore City can read, write or do math at grade level. You want to give them more money? The budget for the city is 1.6 Billion dollars, 21k spent per student in the city. It's not a money issue. Want less interaction with the police, then do something about the absurd level of violent crime. We need community reform more than police reform. I also see you bring up redlining as an excuse. Honestly, you going to tell me black kids are killing each other and failing to achieve at school because someone's great grandfather couldn't get a home loan 80 years ago?

@@teamamerica5987 "Want less interaction with the police, then do something about the absurd level of violent crime." HIGHEST SPENDING on police in the country yet Baltimore still has a massive crime problem HEY GUESS WHAT BUCKO MAYBE SPENDING ALL THAT MONEY ON POLICE DOESN'T FUCKING WORK

Eh, if you’re hoping for reparations I think you already know you set yourself up for failure

​@@teamamerica5987 you realize that the police were super corrupt in Baltimore and they didn't do shit to deter lowering crime as it would put many politicians out of careers? Cops have a quote to adhere to bro, lol. You fools always looking from the outside in. People will commit crime with less socioeconomic opportunities. If local governments won't change poor neighborhoods, then surprise surprise! Violence isn't going away anytime soon. As for your redlining comment, you ever live in a suburb where a ton of upper class or wealthy White or especially Asian people do a bunch of low-level blue collar crimes? Exactly. If you grow up poor and without access to the same resources as those generationally well off, you will do whatever it takes to survive and make a living.

i dunno i work in the trades and that sounds like a lot of guys i work with lol

@@napatora PD is just another literally blue collar job. Until 'reforms' recently, in the form of a HUGE police pay raise, in my city, I made more running my water plant than my PD sorta-coworkers did. I thought, no way I'd put on body armor for less than I make now, lol. Now they start like $5/hr more than me with 8 years here, because we needed to 'attract quality officers'.

​@@RobertMorgan I disagree- mostly because cops are the ones that the rich call when the working class get too uppity and try to strike, unionize, or otherwise do anything except let the rich and powerful wring them for every cent of their labor.

This is why I find it hard to believe that we will be able to make material change any time soon.

"I need a group of people willing to put their lives on the line. Willing to stand there and take abuse after abuse being hurled at them. I need a group of people who I can call upon to do something I myself don't want to and would never think of doing.... Why aren't there more people signing up for this job?"

@The2012Aceman police are not those people. What are you even talking about? Cops are typically societal outcasts with very little avenues in life. They're not heroes willing to endure all hell just to save innocent people(at least not most of the time). They're pretty much scumbag dregs. Also who cares about the abuse they endure? That doesn't rationalize or excuse them brutalizing other people. If you can't handle the demands of the job, don't fucking sign up for it. Being a cop is 100% voluntary and you can quit at literally any time. You literally signed up for it, especially to DIE in service of protecting others. Now stop whining about it.

I mean maybe just fire them for not doing their jobs and train new people to do it the right way. That's pretty much what they did in Camden, NJ. They abolished their police department and rebuilt it completely from the ground up.

@Swordsman1425 yeah and did that work? Because as far as I'm aware cops get arrested for domestic abuse, sexual assault, alcohol and drug related crimes, and assault at a rate higher than the general public. It's not a bug it's a feature.

"It is easier to imagine the end of the world than it is to imagine the end of Capitalism."

@@Hopperton yes that's the quote I was adapting to policing

"it's easier to imagine the end of the world than it is to imagine the end of jealousy"

@@noisegrrrl the quote marks should end at OF :)

It's crazy how us Americans think we're a dynamic, innovative, and creative people but are terrified of even the most minor changes

I got in an argument with someone who characterized bread tube as "white ppl with privilege telling poor ppl they don't need to work" all I could do was laugh at them, knowing they watch Chicago p.d literally every night.

@@TheNewblade1 I mean they're not entirely wrong, most of bread tube is indeed white people with privilege spouting off about things to virtue signal rather than actually doing something meaningful. It's not much different from being a Twitter activist.

That's because it's.....not very good. It's kind of silly actually.

​@@LordVader1094 At least they're TRYING! I think u SEVERELY undervalue the power in EDUCATING. 💯 Wtf r YOU doin?! God, I HATE that ppl like u even exist!! Ppl like u r who the Matrix warned about... "U have to understand, most of these ppl r not ready 2 b unplugged. And many of them r so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."

It's extremely popular

Of the 500,000 interracial crimes committed in America each year, over 90% are committed by blacks against other races. About 10 unarmed black men are killed by police every year. Stats are racist

@@illuminahde 1) That has literally nothing to do with anything I said, did you mean to respond to someone else? 2) I notice you compared "Crimes" to "Murders". Murders, after all, specifically involves when you SUCCEED at killing someone. What about cases where the victim was shot, beaten, or otherwise attacked, but recovered? 3) And in fact, specifically "Murders of unarmed black men," a list which would not include people like Tamir Rice (12, considered "Armed" ) Aiyana Jones (7, female), or Breonna Taylor (female.) 4) How do you define an "Interracial crime?" You were very specific in that you were limiting the discussion of police killings to cases where the victim was 1: Unarmed. 2: Black. 3: Male. 4: Died. But 'interracial crimes' is far more vague. For example, when Amy Cooper misused 911 to call the police and claim a man was harassing her when he clearly was not, was that an interracial crime? Some people would say yes. Amy Cooper was a white woman, Christian Cooper (no relation) was a black man. Other people would say no, because the crime was misusing 911, and thus the victim was the city of New York, which is a legal construct that does not have a race. Or how about if a Hispanic person shoplifts a cake from a Baskin Robbins franchise with an Indian owner. Is that an interracial crime? Well, some people could say yes, the Hispanic person stole from an Indian person. Others would say no, the Hispanic person stole from a store, and the store does not have a race. What about cases where there's more than one perpetrator? Or more than one victim? When Elliot Rodger (British father, Chinese mother) killed his three roommates, was that two interracial crimes (Two were full Chinese) or is that all Asian-on-Asian violence? What if a crime is committed with indiscriminate, multiple victims? For example, imagine if a half-black, half-hispanic man was evicted from my apartment building, and in anger committed arson, which lead to the deaths of myself, my girlfriend (hispanic), and a black couple (black)? Is that four interracial killings, because none of us are black-hispanic? What if an officer of an institutional landlord company commits perjury in order to evict ten tenants from a building they own. If the person who signed the papers doesn't know the races of the people being falsely evicted, is that an interracial crime? What if a fully black man gets in a fistfight with his half-black, half-indian half-brother, is that interracial? If a Japanese man kills a Chinese man, for racist reasons, do we NOT consider it interracial because they're both Asian? Hell, is a dude keeping an exotic animal as a pet interracial? I mean, his race isn't "Lion," is it? And while all of these questions are ones YOU might have an answer to, the question is whether the numbers you cited are going to have the same answer. Which, again, would still only answer questions about that number, and not baout the fact that you are comparing "Killing of unarmed black men" to a list of crimes which can include anything from pickpockets to pedophiles. I don't know about racist. But, to quote Mark Twain, there are three types of lies. Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.

@@HyenaDandy I get that you like to focus on the man bites dog story in the news but your anecdotal stories and hypothetical potential happenings fail to address the issue. When you speak about policing and violent interactions with the police you give black people no agency. As if resisting arrest and committing crimes is not an individual choice. My point was 12.5% of the population does this and then finds it curious when the police recognize patterns. When is it ok to say it's a problem? Your pattern recognition focuses on the exceptions that prove the rule. The fact that you can't name as many white victims should cause you pause. Because there are many many many more victims. That's why it's easy to see your concern for the black community is politically motivated. That's fine but rich kids shouldn't tell poor families about reducing crime by defunding the police. P.S. there were more than a dozen white kids shot by police with toy guns while you read about Tamir Rice. Bad parents come in all races.

@@HyenaDandy Oh, Mark Twain also wrote about a guy named ngr Jim so let's quote someone else please. Since you seem to question the numbers, African American men make up about 6% of the population and are responsible for over 50% of the murders. That's why I used the specific framing I did. It's not numerology.

@@samiam884 type in FBI crime statistics. I could have broken down by age as well for you. As in, black men between the ages of 13 and 30 are about 4% of the population yet commit over 50% of the murder. (I'm simply using murder but you can use any violent crime, including sexual assaults) If you commit more crimes then you have more interactions with police. It's simple. Covering your eyes doesn't make this topic go away and treating black people with no agency is the Real racism.

Yes he absolutely fetishizes the "natural police trope." He even defended some of the national security States data surveillance methods citing its utility in city law enforcement. The wire is the best show ever but David Simon has a huge blind-spot. And he does not respond to criticism well.

Also the right to bear arms implies that it shouldn't be a problem to carry guns in your backpack. Cops don't like that they lack a monopoly on guns i guess.

@Rex Appleby I've always found that so weird. In a country where it is not only legal but encouraged to bare arms, a cop can murder you for carrying one.

@@rexappleby4731 Literally, yes. Most folks in America who claim to support the 2nd are fucking lying to you - What they actually support is the right for neurotypical financially comfortable white people to own guns, and nothing else.

The cop is right in certain way. That is how it is done. Idk about I in the USA, but in my country, I was told by a "person with knowledge" that cops are somehow very good in figuring out when a person with backpack carries something, though cops are the top professionals here.

It reminds me of a quote from one of the conservative MPs in the UK, essentially "anyone whose curtains aren't open by 8am are lazy, unemployed and scrimping off of the government". Something to that effect. It just shows how tone deaf they are to reality, plenty of people carry backpacks. And plenty of people work night shifts or evening shifts. We are ruled and controlled by people who lack any understanding of what it means to be us.

In Belgium you could fill a library with scandals involving the now defunct gendarmerie. Going all the way back to Congo (Lumumba's murder par exemple) and GLADIO

Entertainment media does this a lot. The NYPD has had multiple huge corruption scandals . With bribery being the norm add police officers to did not want to take bribes fearing for their lives. The movie serpico details a big one. New York City then sets of commissions take me to clean out the crime. Law & order touched on this a couple of times. Each time they've made the head of the commission look like an a****** politician.. he wasn't by the way.. despite the fact that in one of them he was going after a cop who literally set up an execution. Look at the list of movies available to you.. the vast majority have a detective as the protagonist

wait, left for dead? i don't remember if there's even cop zombies. there's the riot zombies which i guess counts but listing it in all these games like they're even distinct gameplay or character-wise is kinda absurd.

@disposable_income_andy it's environmental, you go through camps and read some of the guidelines as things become more drastic.

The last of us had very very little tradition policing unless of your referring to the first 15 min when they are overwhelmed. I would certainly not consider FEDRA any type of American policing

@@disposable_income_andyI think it's referring to the military (??) and not really the cop zombies

I think that probably stems from the desire for freedom in games. Police restrict freedoms, so they become enemies

Google..maybe🥴

Glad to hear that! It was my job to explain it. Problem with We Own This City was they wanted to get into all the important details as little as possible in order to reach the widest possible audience. The cost was not really showing what happened and focusing on the officers (or a few of them) getting held accountable -- but that really wasn't the story, at all. The DOJ got sandbagged because of Trump and Sessions, and Baltimore didn't get any police reform work. Now, the police unions are more powerful than ever -- even with the Biden DOJ using the old Obama civil rights people. Basically, Biden has stayed away from the police reform issue.

He didn't actually explain it correctly. He explained what one was in this very narrow context, but consent decrees are also used in disciplinary hearings before professional boards and in family law. It's not exclusively federal. The details of child custody are often outlined in a consent decree, and child custody orders are always made at the state level, as are all legal decisions pertaining to family law. I guess a good definition of it would be "a court order used as a form of dispute resolution, signed by a judge and the parties to the dispute, and enforced by the court." Violation of a consent decree results in contempt hearings and/or reconsideration of the case. It's not a contract in the traditional sense because there's no consideration (legal term), but it resembles one. That's the best I can come up with off the top of my head right now at this late hour.

it’s true and why i probably can’t even watch we own this city, but something about the way skip intro presents it doesn’t trigger me the same way say, watching the news or john oliver does. skip is chill and presents so matter-of-factly, it soothes as it enrages lol.

Cope and seethe

@@jaydenshepard7928 I: You're the one seething here

I'd love to see abolish the police realized. I want to live in Walking Dead world where soy boys like this creator become slaves to my militia band.

@@Darkpara1 You watched this entire video and still think abolish/defund means to get rid of completely? Something tells me your militia is gonna have a lot of issues.

Plus, cops number one function is essentially to protect the property rights of wealthy. Evictions, crushing protest, herding houseless people away from wealthy power brokers

Sadly

To be fair, it's not like anyone else could reform police either, since police reform is a contradiction in terms. You can't reform something that is bad by design, because it's already functioning as intended.

The Mafia has reformed itself a few times and with a lot less violence, ironically enough.

@@samk522 Very true. I think law enforcement is bad by design because of the simple fact that legality doesn't, and never will determine morality.

And trusting police to investigate their own is like letting John Gotti pick his own jury.

​@@samk522yes, you can because it can always be made good by design instead of bad by design. Even If it is functioning as intended, you can always change intention.

They're union in name, but in reality they're anti-unions

It's about power. And who has it.

I don't think she was supposed to be supprised that it happens, but how obviously prevalant it was in Balitmore.

She's not a real person. She's showing the system to the audience surrogate.

Because he wants to misunderstand. He's too attached to his socially-conditioned, romanticized image of police to understand it's something that never existed and never can. His life's work is based as much in worship of this fictional "good cop" as it is in seeing the evil that cops actually do.

Cuz he’s not actually for reforming the police. It’s all just talk to save face with his larger audience that don’t like cops.

Cause he’s Hollywood. Almost every single one of these “social critic” celebrities are doing it for ulterior motives

Cause defunding the police is retarded. Like let's say you want better roads so you're going to defund public construction, does that make sense? If you want to improve standards, wouldn't you want to fund the police more to hire better talent, improve training and get rid of the troublemakers?

@@songcramp66 Using your analogy it would be more like we want better roads but the taxes we pay for better roads or being misused after constant years of increasing budget and improving training to no avail. So instead of continuing to fund mistakes we decide to reallocate funds from that public construction department to a department specifically designed to construct on streets instead overall construction in the city. The problem with what u said is you left the context of how we got to this point and framed as people waking up one morning and saying take all the money away and thats not the case at all. This was a build up and police has failed at almost every turn with corruption plaguing almost every department in america and thats not an exaggeration Take away the police and look at it like this. If you fund a business as a angel donor and constantly it fails, wouldnt you move your money around to a better situation? Thats all de-funding does

Except that time has NEVER EXISTED in US history. That's the point that Jackson is making. He knows what Simon is alluding too, but the problem is that David Simon is nostalgic for a time that is a complete fiction. Investigation skills are and always have been fundamentally flawed. There is a reason that news stories come out every year about someone who was locked up for decades being cleared by DNA evidence. The 1970's comes in the immediate aftermath of the Civil Rights movement. In the 1960's police were cracking down on the Civil Rights movement. Even if they had good skills for solving violent crimes there is now way they were applying those skills universally. There is no way that in a time of legal segregation the police were devoting the same amount of resources to solving the murders of someone who was black and someone who was white.

It's a shame he's seemingly incapable of grasping the fact that they still disproportionately terrorised minority communities in those days too, it wasn't idyllic

And yet some still claim the US isn't outright fascist...

Haha, totally agreed. I also talked to @thatdangphil - he's awesome. I wrote an unpublished cop memoir that Phil read and gave me comments on. Great dude.

@@timtolka he is seriously the most amazing human!

Hey I know you from somewhere

I’m an ex cop, and you’re right on the money.

Yeah. Nixon and his cronies were blatant about it.

That's just an objective fact

great actor

Not for lack of the fucking tories trying to give them all the fucking power they can. As well as the plethora of horrific shit coming out of the met recently.

Honestly, as a Canadian, I don't know that I'd be too eager to positively compare our police to US police.

The UK has "Stop and Frisk. Frisk and Search" Policy as well. In Germany the police is racist and murderous the same. The scale is just different.

@@Nodiee1 my understanding is that the Mounties are still pretty shitty, just less so than their American counterparts, which is not a particularly high bar to clear.

@@3dartxsi Oh I'm sure the RCMP's treatment of indigenous people would give US police a serious run for its money.

Agreed, that's exactly what they are.

His Bawlmer accent is so damn good. Such a convincing rust belt asshole. He’s a DC native so I guess that’s where it comes from

Have you watched Kavernacle's video on Jon Bernthal?He's probably pro-Police.I'm not sure.

Missing the point by a country mile

Jon Bernthal should get an Emmy for just existing

He needs like 4

you hit an important point. police need "crime" to justify their budgets. so they will always find ways to create "crime"

The policing stats chase has nothing to do with capitalism. It is entirely a government institution. It has to do with being able to show the voters "good stats" so that judges, DAs, and mayors can boost their political career.

@@Schrodinger_ Policing has to pump the stats. Capitalism has to bump the numbers. I wasnt connecting the two directly, simply illuminating a trend in which trying to create something out of nothing results in harming the weakest people.

@@WizWiteKnight you hit the nail on the head, the issue with government programs is funding is determined by statistical change and not real added value much like modern wall street driven capitalism. Lots of smoke and mirrors.

@@Schrodinger_ most intelligent liberal

A is your dad a cop supporting conservative or a victim of police brutality who feels that his voice is not heard

Policies that actually focus on crime prevention. If we made it a point to get rid of poverty that's a huge chunk of crime that is reduced. Free school lunches. Expanded maternity leave and pay. Free or reduced child care expenses. A dramatic increase of housing supply in major cities, more robust public transit services, free Healthcare, reestablishing mental health services, finding a better way to fund schools, raise min wage, reinstate maximum income, restructuring the foster care/child protection service. You know instead of paying foster parents to take care of kids with bio parents who are struggling, we can pay the bio parents. All of this will help defund the police and give them a significantly reduced role and we can fund social work and provide more resources so they are not overworked and underpaid. But ultimately the goal is to reduce or eliminate both of their jobs.

A Cop by any other name...

Social work may be corrupted, but it's not innately so. The police, as an institution, are inherently bad for society. There's no "corrupting" police because the job is oppressive and harmful by definition. Social work can be cleaned up, made more functional. Policing can't be.

@@samk522 what’s your proposed solution?

@@Playaboy5 Abolition is the only real solution. Our entire concept of "law enforcement" needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. What the new system looks like specifically is a large topic with a lot of room for variation, but the central point is that the institution we think of as "policing" needs to be done away with, not just reformed.

Also you can not cancel a system like the war on drugs and replace it with social programs and expect overnight results. And cancellation of the war on drugs is the biggest cost cutting measure you can do. I have seen the change in crime statistics after adding youth centres and etc. But all of this is long term. There's no utopian past and no utopian future. It's always messy. But we can definitely do better and learn.

The whole point of the “terrible slogan” is to get you to talk about this. Also, you should engage with actual abolitionists in-person where you live. Online comments only go so far.

@@selalewis9189 lmao I live in New York and nearly all of the PoC that live near me are decidedly NOT for abolition. Kinda telling that white people want police gone and PoC who are more likely to be victims of crime aren't. Also it doesn't matter if the reason is to get people to talk about it when all they're saying is either how terrible it is or conservative propaganda. You've poisoned the movement before it even began if you do that. Fucking stupid internet leftists...

@@selalewis9189 Your average joe isn't going to see a terrible, or any, slogan and go 'oh, i wonder what they really mean'. They're going to have a kneejerk reaction because slogans are meant to short-circuit your reasoning. Slogans are often a person's first interaction with your idea, so it needs to give the right impression so they're amenable to further conversation. You have a terrible slogan and nobody is gonna want to talk to you. You're not gonna want to have a conversation with a movement whose slogan is 'down with the blacks' even if it turns out that they're talking about the east asian concept of a 'black company'. (Edit: edited to restate my point in a better way)

I: Agreed. But please don't perpetuate the conflation of "anarchy" with "utter chaos". Anarchism is a specific polititcal and philosophical thought (forgot the proper term), and using "anarchy" to mean chaos (while in fact, anarchism is about scrutinizing and dismantling unjust hierarchies) stigmatizes anarchists

Essentially, can we defund the copaganda

You'd be surprised. Drug legislation, just like gun legislation, changes by statewide efforts. Don't worry about the fed, theyll change when the state's change. Look at Colorado.