We Still Don't Fully Understand How Motorcycles Work

Рет қаралды 103,558

2 ай бұрын

Why are motorcycles stable? Whats actually going on when we turn? Is it countersteering? Gyroscopic Precession? Rake and Trail? Mass Distribution? The answer may surprise you. It surprised me!
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References:
Most People Don't Know How Bikes Work: • Most People Don't Know...
Why Bicycles Do Not Fall: • Why bicycles do not fa...
How do Bikes Stay Up?: • How Do Bikes Stay Up?
How Bicycles Balance Themselves: • Andy Ruina explains ho...
Gyroscopic Precession: • Gyroscopic Precession
Spinning: • Spinning
Neil deGrasse Tyson Explains: • How Do Bikes Stay Up? ...
Rolling Motion, Gyroscopes, VERY NON-INTUITIVE: • 8.01x - Lect 24 - Roll...
Bicycle Mechanics and Dynamics: ruina.tam.cornell.edu/research...
Bicycle Dynamics: bicycle.tudelft.nl/schwab/Bicy...
Explaining the Gyro Effect: woodgears.ca/physics/gyro.html
Centripetal Force: hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/...
Centrifigul Force: xkcd.com/123/
Motorcycle Dynamics: amzn.to/49kfqqc
Sport Riding Techniques: amzn.to/49h7Xsc
Bicycle and Motorcycle Dynamics: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle...
Circular Motion: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circula...
Angular Momentum: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular...
Precession: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precession
Centrifugal Force: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrif...
Centripetal Force: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrip...
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#countersteering #gyroscope #physics

Пікірлер: 454

@MattFellowswasHere 2 ай бұрын

Well, your last two videos have been absolutely staggeringly amazingly beautiful. And there’s not too many people that can take something very complex and render it in an understandable way. Greg @ MotoJitsu and Kevin @MC Rider, and all these guys they just don’t have the aptitude for it- and as a consequence, all of their material is really dumbed down for the masses and it just is COMPLETELY repetitive at this point. I feel dumber after watching most of their stuff. That basically leaves YOU and Ryan F9. It’s good to have you here man I mean it’s GREAT to have you here. I have basically been explaining to my son who is going into his third season of riding- that motorcycling is not, by any means, a settled science. And it’s really tough to explain that with all the KZfaq “gurus” telling us what we can & can never do, and have to do all the time…and the thousands & thousands of ways we can die, etc. It’s just scaring people- honestly-and no one is learning anything. We have a bunch of scared little kids who show up to group rides have no idea what to expect or what might happen. And it’s a recipe for absolute disaster. Also, I wanna thank Jesus for dropping Pedro Acosta into the GP world in 2024. he is a breath of fresh air and a giant “SCREW YOU” to anyone who thinks there’s only one way to ride a motorcycle- or that there’s a “right” and “wrong” way. As you slide your vehicle sideways past the competition, God is with you, Pedro!--😂

@CanyonChasers 2 ай бұрын

Wow! Thank you so much for the amazingly kind words. These comments mean more than I know how to express! This video took about 150 hours to research, script, tape and edit, and it means a lot when they actually resonate and help people! And in all my years of coaching and reading and obsession about this sport, I think it's best when we stop looking at "rules" and look more at Best Practices. What are the best riders in the world (who aren't crashing) doing? Can we emulate that? A recent interview with Randy Mamola, he was saying they were looking at all the data coming of Fabio Quartaro's bike, and he's doing things that nobody understands yet. And all these experts are looking at his data points trying to figure out exactly what he's doing and seeing what we can learn from it. So cool, right? As far as Pedro Acosta... No kidding, right!?! That kid is brilliant! Not only his affability and willingness to not take himself so seriously (the Learner sticker on his helmet), but he looks like he's out there just having the time of his life (reminiscent of Rossi), but his talent is like nothing I've ever seen before (reminiscent of MM). I'm really hoping he doesn't get hurt, becasue I really want to see what he's capable of!

@johndoe70770 2 ай бұрын

I telepathically communicate with my motorcycle where I want to go. I make a suggestion, and the bike may or may not comply.

@SubaruKtm 2 ай бұрын

😂

@avallons8815 2 ай бұрын

A good description of riding the 2001 GSX-R600

@martyn94ma 21 сағат бұрын

Bro 😂😂 I'm dead 😂😂

@martyn94ma 21 сағат бұрын

@avallons8815 my k3 was the same 😂

@correykeen2956 2 ай бұрын

I tried reading Motorcycle Dynamics and it quickly went far beyond what my feeble brain can comprehend. LOL

@CanyonChasers 2 ай бұрын

I have to take it in small doses. The fact that it's italian translated to english makes it a slow go.

@deadslow201 2 ай бұрын

I suggest you to first read only the easy parts, and just skip everything else. Then on the second round read the easy parts again. Third round same thing. And so on. You will notice that every time the amount of easy parts will grow.

@MaitreyaNow 2 ай бұрын

A few of the equations have typos and it's translated from Italian but otherwise an excellent book 🤓

@descoursolivier8483 2 ай бұрын

I'm reading Cossalter. One chapter at a time. So that I can resume. One you need to read is Eric Offendstadt. Basically, no secret in riding a bike : Newton's 3 laws. Countersteering is just action/reaction. One thing people don't understand or do well, including me, is how to oversteer a bike only by weight distribution. Some people are still confused with load and weight transfers.

@aluisious 2 ай бұрын

@@YaHsServentGet a better hobby.

@007rockford 2 ай бұрын

As a fellow student of physics and engineer, I am glued to the concepts... but I forget everything when I ride LOL

@beniniandrea 2 ай бұрын

No words to say how good this video is.. I know it can feel like a bot's comment. It's not, your videos are pure gold.

@CanyonChasers 2 ай бұрын

Thank you so much 😀

@soujrnr 2 ай бұрын

Dave is THE man!! I can never get too much of his videos!!

@ricardofabia 2 ай бұрын

I was going to post the same thing. Excellent content and production.

@pureblood9477 2 ай бұрын

That's what a bot would say.

@beniniandrea 2 ай бұрын

@@pureblood9477Dammit! You found me!

@karlbishop7481 2 ай бұрын

I have watched too many damn videos in which the presenter has the absolute answer to how motorcycles corner. Especially that counter steering is the absolute answer and why it is. Finally someone, Canyon Chaser, says it isn't so and the answer is actually a combination of things and isn't totally known. Also more counter steer isn't always the answer to go tighter. Back when I had a Harley cruiser I had a limited amount of lean, backing off the throttle was the more expediant way of staying out of trouble. I have been meaning to go to the toy store to get a gyroscope and do some experimentation. How a motorcycle corners has always been a facinating subject for me over the past 59 years I have been riding. This video has so far been the best at explaining it and I will probably be long gone before a definattive answer is found. Thanks Canyon Chaser for the best explanation so far, at least for me. I will be re-watching this more than once to more fully understand the concepts presented.

@fallinginthed33p 2 ай бұрын

Backing off the throttle, doing trail braking with the front brake to load the forks, all these can be safer than maintaining the same throttle position and leaning more. Seeing sand at the apex of a canyon corner once is enough to scare you into being a smarter rider.

@karlbishop7481 2 ай бұрын

@@fallinginthed33p You are 100% correct. Safer way to stay out of trouble.

@multi21racing 2 ай бұрын

@@karlbishop7481 I never heard about the "staying on the throttle" part. Is this an American thing? Seems really dangerous especially for inexperienced riders to suggest they have to stay on the throttle in a panic situation. When I did my licence it was always said that you have to increase lean angle in those situation and closing the throttle is something you do naturally. So in the end both act together to give you an even tighter turn. I don't even understand why this video suggests that one can only increase the lean angle while staying on the throttle. Increasing the lean angle off-throttle is literally what you do at the beginning of a corner.

@aluisious 2 ай бұрын

@@multi21racingAmericans have no serious training to get a motorcycle license. It's no surprise that a lot of people have absolutely no clue what they're doing.

@tommeyer6033 2 ай бұрын

Now I have to watch this again.

@elliswayne_ 2 ай бұрын

😁😝

@bwxmoto 2 ай бұрын

Yup I always thought that the satellite analogy was never used enough in explaining how bikes corner. It's a lot like an orbit of a satellite, which are falling around the earth. The bike is in a "controlled fall" around a corner. Too much speed and satellite will fly out of earth's orbit the same way a bike will run wide in a corner. edit- And thinking about it, Newtonian physics are an absolute in space, but variable in this bike analogy. We can control that part of the analogy with lean angle and tire grip, so the Newtonian physics that keep satellites in space are variable in the context of the bike analogy, but still limited to a narrow window which we control with a twist of your wrist or pull of the lever.

@bryan3550 2 ай бұрын

Beautifully put. 😉

@WJRobbins125 2 ай бұрын

Everything I needed to know about life, I learned from Star Trek! 😉

@CanyonChasers 2 ай бұрын

You and me both!

@jimlyon7276 2 ай бұрын

Yeh. my parents were so kr*p, that when "Star Trek" first came out on the TV, I used it as my role model to re-parent myself ! :)

@FastYou-ov5kc 2 ай бұрын

Wow,didn't have a clue how many of us learned everything from Star Trek(and CanyonChasers 😉) cheers 🖖🏍️ 💨

@nfineon Ай бұрын

This is now the 3rd video on this topic in the last month I've seen from 2 different channels (FortNine & Veritasium) and both are also physicists, bravo! One must also take into consideration that these systems are in motion and so the dynamics changes considerably compared to a stationary object at rest. Momentum plays a key part in maintaining stability as well which is often overlooked in favor of gyroscopic force, and I would say Inertia (resistance to change in motion) are also crucial factors which must be taken into account, for it is a combination of these interactions that give us stability WHILE IN MOTION (both momentum & inertia are dependent on mass & velocity). If you aren't in motion, then lean angle, tire geometry and many of the forces simply don't come into play yet. For example, if your bike is parked at a light, about to make a turn, one does not require much initial lean angle or counter steer to turn the bike, so those contributions are negated until the velocity (thus momentum) is sufficient to balance the bike naturally. This transition velocity is what is referenced as normal turning as opposed to counter steering which is necessary at higher speeds above a certain threshold. So the mass of the bike and velocity are also critical factors in allowing the other forces to work while in motion. That may seem obvious, but it is quite often overlooked. Similar to aerodynamics on a bike, some effects don't come into play below a certain velocity threshold and only become more pronounced at higher relative speeds.

@Fred-eg9sx Күн бұрын

As a motorcycle instructor, I explain counter steering by establishing that 1) motorcycles need to lean to turn, 2) motorcycles are inherently stable and do not want to lean. Then I ask the students what happens to their car if they suddenly threw the wheel in one direction. The response is that the car would flip/lean in the opposite direction. Thus, to make our motorcycle lean in one direction, we must turn the steering in the opposite direction. Students also often ask how come motorcycles don't fall over at lean, and the explanation is similar to the orbital mechanics example provide. I use a washing machine instead. How come the cloth stick to the drum when the machine spins, but falls and tumbles when the machine slows down? Speed gets you centrifugal force, which can counteract gravitation pull down. Thus, if the ride match their lean (gravity) with sufficient speed, they won't fall over. In other words, speed keeps us upright, speed is life.

@afdelta0120 11 күн бұрын

A combination of centrifugal forces, gravity, friction, and the properties of trail and weight. With a pinch of tire deformation.

@OmGiTsMeTaStY 2 ай бұрын

The single greatest explanation of how a motorcycle works. Many riders need to watch this video and understand it. Bravo!

@hair2050 2 ай бұрын

Good stuff. Thanks very much. Every bit of understanding improves my riding.

@starlordnetzero9633 2 ай бұрын

Good to have you back doing interesting and deep KZfaq posts - please keep it up!

@jpmotorsport4728 2 ай бұрын

Very informative, great explanation Thankyou 🙏🏽👍🏽😎 I love this kind of video, always learning 👍🏽.

@dzilen Ай бұрын

Trail braking & counter steering. Two best tools in the toolbox!!! Your videos save lives. Thank you. 🙏🏻 ❤

@volodymyrshoniia2424 Ай бұрын

@bacorablebetter yet, don't enter a corner at all

@jonny46ba 29 күн бұрын

Great vid, well explained, subbed and liked. I consider myself an ok rider.. I started on dirt bikes as a kid and have been riding most of my life. I hit 60 this year and ride a '95 Fireblade. I spent a lot of my younger years riding sports bikes fast.. but survived that phase more by luck than skill and judgement to be honest. I still ride quite quickly, but now I concentrate on fast and smooth as opposed to my dumb younger self racing from corner to corner. I love that we don't really fully undestand bikes. For me its part of what I love about bikes.. Its such a dynamic experience, so much more engaging than driving 4 wheels. I remember when I was 20, and had just graduated to my first reasonably fast bike, a CBR600F, and my mate told me about counter steering.. I was confused.. until I went out and tried it.. then realised that I had been doing it without realising I was...I find now that when riding bits of road I know well, my technique changes from corner to corner without really thinking about it. Sometimes I'm on the gas early, sometimes I'm trail braking deep into a corner.. sometimes I lean the bike but keep my weight above it and sometimes the oposite and hang off the inside a bit so I can pick the bike up and get on the power.. All of this seems to depend on the road and of course the weather. I think that riding bikes makes look further ahead, and you a lot more aware of things like road camber, and of course road condition, which translates to being a better car driver too. I have a question though.. I have always been a bit of a trail braker, and though that braking going into a corner compresses the forks and makes the bike turn in better because it steepens the head angle.. but that research with the trail experiment in the vid seems to say this isn't the case? Have I misunderstood? why does the bike seem to turn in easier with a little brake on rather than coasting in at the same speed without the brake?

@RG-500 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for all the research and work that went into this video. Great job!!

@CanyonChasers 2 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

@garrywalton 2 ай бұрын

Ive been soaking up all your videos and the weather here (UK) is fancily letting me have some practice. I've been riding for 40years and no one, ever, taught me any of this stuff. I'm amazed I'm still here! Went for a ride with some buddies last week on unfamiliar roads and was really trying out the trial breaking, body position, road position. It definitely feels safer and more controlled. Particularly those blind corners that tighten up and have a load of wet gravel right where you want to be....... I was long way behind the other riders who have completely different techniques for how they managed the twisty bits. One "settled" the bike with the back brake and tipped in (didn't really understand this) the other used only the throttle to control his speed in the corner. Seemed to work for him but I'm not sure what his strategy was for ben tightening up more than expected or some obstruction. I'll be riding with these guys in the European Alps ion September. I want to be on top of this by then.

@boyce3841 2 ай бұрын

As always thought provoking. Your advice in a previous video “look at nothing, see everything” is my mantra as I ride.

@delwood77 Ай бұрын

About a decade ago I spent about a year trying to sort this out myself. For the first time on the track I actually dragged my elbow in a corner. That was shortly before I was low-sided by another bike, shooting me off the track and I spent a few weeks thanking my spine protector for my black and blue ribs but non-broken spine. So I had a lot of time to think about it, and I pretty much ended up right where you did with the "falling into gravity, using throttle to control radius" model. So thank you for summing up what I bored many people with that year as I went through all the theory to try to distill it down. I just have one small difference or addition: If you reduce the conical section of a tire to zero, so long as traction remains, the motorcycle will still turn. The 'conical section' theory is a misapplied observation. It has nothing to do with the motorcycle turning. in fact, if you do introduce a true conical section to the tire, like through under-inflation, the tire will turn but it will resist 'steering'. If you've ever felt the heavy feeling of an under-inflated front tire you recognize this. The cross section profile of a properly inflated tire is a radius, not a cone. Yes one can argue that the contact patch flattens the radius so it therefore creates a conical section, but I would say that is merely a flattened radius and does not exert the same type of forces as in the 'cone shaped wheel' examples--unless taken to extreme as in the under inflated situation. Anyway, great video.Thank you!

@Grim_Beard 2 ай бұрын

02:15 "We can all agree that motorcycles lean and then turn." I don't agree. Motorcycles don't turn because they're leaning, they lean because they're turning. Basically, the 'bike tries to fall 'outwards' from the turn, so you lean 'inwards' to balance it out. Excellent video explaining how all this works :-)

@keithkardell8285 2 ай бұрын

I believe it works both ways - ever watch a drag bike with a 15" slick turn off the end of the drag strip on to the return road? They don't lean. Instead the rider hangs off the side like a side-car hack to maneuver the turn. Have you seen the video where a person runs alongside a coasting bicycle and the person pushes the bicycle forcing it to lean - the bicycle then counters it by steering into the lean. #keithkardell

@keremozcu1009 2 ай бұрын

Naah, not correct. If you were to first initiate turning, it would result with the bike leaning the opposite side and cause you to crash. By countersteering you are letting the bike lean (fall) enough to counter act the forces (that are going to apply when you initiate turning) and then you start turning. I can easily prove it too, whicever direction you lean shows you which action happened first before balancing. "If bike tries to fall outwards", it falls outwards, If you lean inwards first, congrats you can take the corner.

@Grim_Beard 2 ай бұрын

@@keremozcu1009 The thing you're saying isn't correct is _exactly_ what's shown in the video. I'll walk you through a right turn in detail as an illustration. First you turn the bars to the _left_ , which is counter steering. The 'bike goes left but because of angular momentum also falls outward, i.e. to the right. The bars then correct to the right, so now the 'bike is turning right (i.e. 'normal' rather than counter steering) _and_ leaning to the right. The fall into the turn, from gravity, is balanced by the angular momentum outwards from the turn (basically, centrifugal force). That balance is why you _don't_ crash. Counter steering initiates a turn, 'normal' steering then takes over and continues the turn. Again, this is shown in the video.

@keremozcu1009 2 ай бұрын

@@Grim_Beard I was angry because you write the exact same thing I've written and I spend 20 minutes trying to understand why would someone that can understand dynamics writes the first comment. Then I stopped and read your first comment again. What you meant by leaning is not leaning into corner but any leaning action. Of course it is initiated by turning. What I meant was, If you want to balance everything out and turn, you first need to lean into a corner which is initiate by again turning to the opposite side. Funnily enough while riding GS in stopped traffic, In standstill, I let the bike fall to a certain point then release the clutch and do a tight turn. Might be a scenario where the leaning action is first ;)

@Grim_Beard 2 ай бұрын

@@keremozcu1009 Sorry, I've re-read your earlier comment again and I think I'd misunderstood what you meant. We're describing the same thing in slightly different ways. Thanks for taking the time to clarify 🙂 Yes, if you hold the 'bike up while standing still like you say, you can initiate a turn without counter steering - good point!

@PropDusting 2 ай бұрын

I enjoyed this video! I restarted it 4 or 5 times to be sure that I heard and understood each part. Thank you!

@steveoverstreet5635 Ай бұрын

It’s easier for me to understand how my bike works by remembering that the rear wheel pushes the bike forward. Any tweak in the direction of the front wheel’s direction of travel shifts the rear wheels power move in the opposite direction. Slow down the front wheel’s spin ever so slightly and voila, trail braking. Now think some more about the front wheel. It effortlessly rotates side to side, its direction managed by the rear wheel’s power - except for your input via the bars. You can feel the front wheel trying to over-compensate by “folding” itself underneath you, hence the dreaded high side. So countersteering sets the turn in motion, but you continue pushing hard enough to prevent the front wheel going too far. The crazy behavior of a grocery cart is very simiilar, the front wheels moving freely side to side, making you press forward from the rear to keep them straight. You can test my theories for yourself on a bicycle, which really makes the advantages of trail braking show up. You can also see how body steering and peg steering actually work, if you start that effort from your hips. I don’t think you need perfect science to get what’s going on. All you need to do is pay close attention and experiment a bit at relatively low speeds. If you watch little kids floundering around on their own, you can see them testing and testing, all the while gaining more and more control. It’s a balancing act! Keep you touch light and relaxed,, and feel the subtle and not so subtle interaction between rear wheel and front. Oh and ps, managing the throttle is not just safe, it helps manage steering as well, but only indirectly.

@MrBCRC 2 ай бұрын

The mistake we make with this is by trying to analyse a process that requires a multitude of different inputs and factors all acting in harmony by looking at just 1 or 2 at a time in isolation from the others. That approach will never succeed

@dingoniner5528 15 сағат бұрын

I literally spend hours of my riding time trying to figure out exactly the things you're talking about here. I like the way you say that physics hasn't described for us what we should do, but instead physics is trying to explain for us what we already do. I'm going to go with that, and learn to feel what works and what doesn't, instead of trying to explain it. Oh, and 2:00 - Holy.crap.

@CanyonChasers 15 минут бұрын

Right on! And yeah, motogp is magic in motion!

@Knoxvillemoto 2 ай бұрын

Dude thats crazy. Im reading the exact same book for bed time reading. I love that book! This video is awesome. There are so many bad techniques, based on myths, that pervade the motorcycle world. I was riding some mountain roads with a group one time and realized I was coming into a corner a little too hot. I slowly applied brake until, I was at a comfortable speed, including, trail braking through the corner. One of the other riders afterwards said "bro, never use the brake in a corner it stands the bike up and you'll blow through the corner"......except I did apply brake, didn't blow the corner, and never would have even thought twice about it had it not been for this advice. If I'd have followed his advice there is a good chance I would have run out of lean angle and low sided.

@luvmyguzzi Ай бұрын

This is a bit of the rub for me - I was in a group ride one time as a newer rider - trail braking always made sense to me, but was chastised by the rider behind me for braking in the corner. Made me feel quite intimidated for that ride and took awhile to brush it off.

@Knoxvillemoto Ай бұрын

@@luvmyguzzi I know exactly what you mean. The fastest and most experienced riders in the world do it, so I'm pretty sure you and me will be just fine trail braking into corners. Now that I think about it. I might actually do a video on the physics of trail braking at some point on my channel.

@ponyboy1664 6 күн бұрын

This makes so much sense but is so alien. I was taught not to front brake into a corner because of front wheel slip. Ill give this a go because i have been caught out on a few tights bends using the method i know. Thank you for potentially saving me from oncoming traffic.

@RealMuroc 2 ай бұрын

Fantastic video, both content and production. You are a star! Thanks!

@CanyonChasers 2 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

@supresto8214 2 ай бұрын

Thank you for the awesome video. Keep them coming

@Squatch_Rider66 2 ай бұрын

Counter steering, no idea why it works, just know that it makes life much easier. I never understood the confusion about counter steering, always been intuitive for me.

@soujrnr 2 ай бұрын

Great stuff as always, Dave!! I love physics, and the guys who go through all of these academic gyrations are simply amazing! At the end of the day, I'd like to think that I have multiple tools in my bag of tricks to deal with any given situation because, after all, when it comes to choosing any tool or set of tools, "it depends."

@jn1982 23 күн бұрын

presto! You got it! (or at least you and I agree). CS tips the bike into a turn, destablizing the CG slightly, getting the geometry to take over and making the bike turn and fall over---then steering takes over and balancing the weight of the bike in the turn. Getting out of the turn requires---CS!!

@nicolasgarcia-bonaduce9804 13 күн бұрын

Phenomenal video. Ordering Motorcycle Dynamics now.

@charlesstoddard736 2 ай бұрын

Great episode, good content ,well delivered. Well done very informative and good objectives. Chuck

@CanyonChasers 2 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

@67Evan Ай бұрын

I love this, thanks! I too have wondered on and off for decades about how bikes turn and are stable when moving - many people think they understand but they usually haven't scratched the surface and it's real rabbit hole as you say. I was amazed when my extremely bright daughter, just turned two, piped up in the car on the freeway from her babyseat "Daddy, why don't the motorbikes fall over?". I started babbling about gyroscopic precession etc, then realised she deserved better and admitted I didn't know.

@exploringtheway2983 2 ай бұрын

Excellent stuff as always! We really need more of these types.....but sadly there are very few from where we can learn the basics!

@northcountryknucklehead6977 2 ай бұрын

Rates right up with kids in your driveway...keep up the good work DP.

@CanyonChasers 2 ай бұрын

Thank you!!

@douguk1097 2 ай бұрын

Great content, keep it coming.

@mashka96 2 ай бұрын

Wow, hands down one of the more informative videos I've watched in a while. I love it! 👍👍

@petervautmans199 2 ай бұрын

Adding lean works wonders on a racetrack, with good, clean, dry asfalt and a nice runof. On public roads, adding lean can works when the surface has good grip and we have a clear view of the corner. In almost all other circumstances, I add a little break to my trail braking. this adds control and lowers the energy i have to bleed of in case of a crash.

@Helfiredrew 2 ай бұрын

This was a fun deep dive! As a rider based in Utah, it's fun to recognize about half the roads in the footage that you use. As always, thanks for the research on our behalf!

@CanyonChasers 2 ай бұрын

Right on!

@lapperspeed 2 ай бұрын

Another good one by CanyonChasers. The right blend of theory and practice. Keep'em coming!

@ageofexploring Ай бұрын

One of the best science/real life videos I've seen. the B-roll was entertaining, the props were educational and relevant, and you know time and effort were a huge part of it. I wish more people (including myself) would produce videos like this. Thank you.

@CanyonChasers Ай бұрын

Thank you! It was about 150 hours to research, ponder, tape, produce, edit, etc. I'm glad you enjoyed it!

@duds7952 11 күн бұрын

fantastic work!

@seriouslyflawed 2 ай бұрын

Awesome video, nice to know after watching so many motorcycle videos we still haven't figured everything out.

@pipersall6761 28 күн бұрын

Good video. Thanks.

@NYCZ31 2 күн бұрын

The question of motorcycle dynamics reminds of the question of how lift works on aircraft wings. There are many plausible explanations but none of the explanations explain every situation or wing configuration. It could be that different physics come into play depending on what the bike (or wing) is doing and that is just insane.

@traskabraska 2 ай бұрын

an amazing video, which, btw wiped away my driving certainties. which is, in every aspect of the human life, the ultimate way to start broadening understanding and awareness. Thank you!

@eugenehall1190 2 ай бұрын

Good work thanks

@robertmeyers9313 Ай бұрын

Thanks, a very thought provoking video as usual. I spent alot of time as a kid analyzing my bicycle’s ability to stay upright while moving forward without a rider. What was going on? The trail in the front tire was the only thing that made sense. When the contact patch increased to go in front of the steering axis the bike would tuck and crash. Such as in deeper gravel or sand. This told me with the contact patch behind the steering axis, caster would kick in and keep the bike going forward. But why wouldn’t it fall over? So I studied what happens when slowly moving the bike forward, then tipping it over a few degrees. Due to the trail as the bike leaned, the tire wanted to steer in the direction of the lean. So when unsupported and moving forward, when the bike started to fall, the front tire would automatically steer into the lean standing the bike up again. So this is continuous and stabilizing until the bike slowed down until the auto correct stopped working. This IMO is how the bike stays upright and wants to go straight. This concept is important because you are fighting this effect when you want to turn. So to turn you countersteer to counter this force, and once you start the lean, the trail goes off center steering you through the corner. It continues to want to stand up so after you start to turn you need some constant countersteer pressure to maintain the turn. As the front is not quite aligned with the rear, the tire is cuffing a bit, thats why you need maintenance throttle, plus the contact patches on the side of the tire have effectively reduced the radius of the tire needing higher rpm. Countersteer to start the turn, ease off countersteer to keep the turn.

@CanyonChasers Ай бұрын

YES! I love it. If the algorithm would allow, I'd be a bicycle/motorcycle channel because I just find two-wheels so fascinating! What we "feel" and whats happening don't always align, and as one of the physicists I talked to making this video said "It's not intuitive"

@lylemacdonald6672 2 ай бұрын

To boldly go where no motorcycle vlogger has gone before! A synthesis of Star Trek, orbital mechanics and riding a m/c on twisty roads; how wonderful! Next time on the bike heading into a fun challenging corner I know I will be quoting Jean Luc Picard saying to myself either "engage" or "make it so".

@adjbob56 2 ай бұрын

Brilliant combination of data. Countersteer initiates lean - but slowing down tightens the radius (as you point out). More countersteer would also tighten the radius. Great video putting the pieces together.

@stephc4427 2 ай бұрын

There is a ride envelope for every corner with regard to speed, bike geometry, lean, tire grip and road surface. Probably other factors too, my point being that in order to safely navigate a given corner, we need to stay within the envelope and, more than physical calculations of all quantifiable factors that determine the limits of a corner, it is the experience of the rider that makes the instantaneous calculations within the brain guiding success or failure. This is the art of motorcycle riding. We can approach it from a physically regressive view or we can develop, with time, the Zen of anticipating and guiding with all the allowable inputs. Fighter pilots and F1 drivers develop this "feel" as well. Keep riding. Keep learning.

@bryan3550 2 ай бұрын

Quite so. It was Randy Mammola or Kevin Schwantz, or someone from that vintage that said "You don't know how fast you can go till you fall off!"

@CanyonChasers 2 ай бұрын

I was just talking to a buddy about those 2-stroke gp racers. Racing was more like WWE back then. 😂

@wadeblake3451 2 ай бұрын

One of your best ideas in my humble opinion.

@Eyeluvvyou 2 ай бұрын

This is the exact video I was looking for. I’ve been up all night confused by counter steering and how motor bikes turning works

@b1tho 2 ай бұрын

Another enjoyable and informative piece of analysis on the skills required for safe riding. My head now hurts though….

@canaryveteran 24 күн бұрын

The front tire even slightly turned works like a break. If you abruptly turn the front tire the force forward wants to tip the front tire over, like run over it but because there is a pingalimb the front tire turns to correct. I describe riding my bike threw twisties like riding a unicycle with a cruch the front tire being the cruch. I've only been riding a year and got 17k miles under me , x-hotrodder

@MD-MC 2 ай бұрын

We appreciate your quest to help us become better, safer riders. Thank you!

@prakasarevo5435 2 ай бұрын

Thats what i do now, different corner out doesnt always need counter steering, counter steering is for speed / fast out accelerate, hard to do in public road except you are on circuit track

@josephxanthopoulos 2 ай бұрын

Nice lesson...... I hope all people try to understand it , and learn from it . that on the road, is not a race ......... Thanks.

@max30888 2 ай бұрын

Excellent explanation! 💯 Thank you for such amazing video ! I suggest you do 101 video series about motorcycle mechanics..

@CanyonChasers 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for the idea!

@_bluespider5470 2 ай бұрын

That stick experiment is the mental conclusion I came to reasoning on my own. Nice video man!

@BoxShifterGaming 2 ай бұрын

this was an awesome video, thx

@lambo-nut3793 2 ай бұрын

I would really love to see a video on cornering in the wet and how far you can and can't lean into corners on wet roads and the types of tires that are useful on wet roads along with proper technique of riding in the wet.

@CanyonChasers 2 ай бұрын

Great suggestion!

@KarlandKristy Ай бұрын

Very interesting video. I've noticed that I can throw my CBR around just by pushing with my hips or lower body. Like to dodge a car or quickly change lanes. There's some lean to it but there's actually a lot of just throwing your weight around.

@CanyonChasers 27 күн бұрын

Exactly. Put a passenger on the bike and see real quick how much influcence they have over lean angle. The truth of the matter is it's a combination of these techniques, not wholly one or the other. Right.

@deadslow201 2 ай бұрын

Very nice to see you actually diving deep in to the rabbit hole. Usually all yt videos, which have something to do with bike dynamics, are just full of the same old bs legends and misinformation. There are some small inaccuracies and a couple of small errors in this video. But all in all, very good information.

@CapNChil 2 ай бұрын

Excellent video Dave, it makes me feel quite happy learning its not just me who's been bothered about the physics of turning all this while. I hated when fortnine in his video said countersteer is the one and only the only way to turn, it surely is one way, but not the only way.

@CanyonChasers 2 ай бұрын

haha. The folks on our Discord will tell you, when that video came out, I was pretty amped up. "Thats not how it works!" And this video idea was born.

@CapNChil 2 ай бұрын

Untill now i was going insane 😂 gotta join your discord, cheers

@KiwiMoto72 6 күн бұрын

once we understand that Motos are simply just gyroscopes (as are cars) it all starts to make sense. Great video.

@skyout19 Ай бұрын

The explanation is contained in Corioli's Force: if you apply a force to a rotating object then there will be a force perpendicular to both the axis of the wheel and the axis of the force - stretch out your thumb, your index finger and your middle finger so that they are perpendicular to each other. For the right hand, the middle finger alligns with the wheel axis, the index finger aligns with the horizontal axis and the thumb aligns with the vertical axis. Your front wheel is turning, so your fingers are rotating downwards (your thumb is pointing to the left), if you try to turn your handle bars to the left (here your thumb is pointing upward and you fingers are rotating to the left, then your motorbike will rotate arong the horizontal axis. i.e your thumb is now along the horizontal axis and your fingers are rotating downwards - this means that if you try to turn the handle bars to the left, YOU WILL BE THROWN OFF TO THE RIGHT - try this on a bicycle and NOT ON A MOTORCYLE ! To look at this from another perspective: Your front wheel is turning, so your fingers are rotating downwards (your thumb is pointing to the left), you now lean to the left, i.e. about the horizontal axis, your thumb is now pointing backwards and your fingers are now wrapping right to left, then the resulting force will be along the vertical axis - i.e. your thumb is vertical and fingers will be rotating right to left - hence the motorbike turns to the left.

@fruitycigar 2 ай бұрын

How does this video not have more views? Dave is a godsend to motorcyclists across the world.

@kostaachin4428 2 ай бұрын

Thank you!

@carver7689 Ай бұрын

I know that turning a bike involves gyroscopic forces, centrifugal forces, mass distribution, velocity, and gravity - all working together in relatively different capacities throughout the turn. That's it, man. That's as deep into the physics as I can go with it. In the real world, I just try to hold a steady line and enjoy myself. You said it yourself, that we can feel what's happening and we know that countersteering is the main technique to steer a bike, even if we can't clearly explain the math behind it. It's like when early roboticists were trying to make a machine that could catch a simple toss of a tennis ball. The programmers said they never realized how much complicated math had to be calculated in a fraction of a second, just to get the robotic hand in place to catch the ball. And yet we humans do it all the time. Toss a nummy to your dog, and plenty of them can catch it in their mouth. They can't work it out on paper, either. So I'm okay with just feeling it out on a bike. Somebody else with the proper physics training can sort out the math if they want to.

@DumbledoreMcCracken Ай бұрын

Well said!

@archiewilson4943 2 ай бұрын

Pramac put some awesome videos on youtube where they place a camera directly behind a front tire on a GP bike. You can see pretty well when the counter steering begins and when it goes into a turning mode where the front turns something like a car tire.

@kennym99 2 ай бұрын

Excellent. Pro advice ain't cheap!

@adonisqeeryazees-mo5rb Ай бұрын

Little objection your honour: for usual corners with plenty of visibility I lean the bike to steer, I don't counter-steer, unless emergency correction (also to make a tight U-turn by initiating a full-lock early on, my Hayabusa has a long wheelbase, ...) For the rest, and given my degree in Mathematics, I better buy that book and start studying properly ;-) Your presentation is TOP!

@vijayam1 Ай бұрын

Michael Brooks rode a bicycle, and he was stunned for life! Brilliant summation Dave. Always a smile, always intuitive. Keep these brain food topics coming..

@lefterisbampaidis5446 2 ай бұрын

Great video

@ScientificLee 2 ай бұрын

Bikes want to go straight...so the only way to turn at speed is to keep its line of trajectory in a straight line...the only way ?..is to lean ..then the bike is still going in a straight line from the perspective of the rider...and so the bike must turn as straight lines make a Fibonacci spiral ( Like driving upwards into a loop )...which is the coolest explanation ever really.

@philgrayoz 2 ай бұрын

The best explanation ever!

@Ron-kn1fg 2 ай бұрын

If the front wheel is suspended from vertical forks, it will just hang there. It's called gravity. If the wheel is held forward by 100mm as motorcycle wheels are, the smallest deflection " lean" left or right. Gravity pulls the wheel in that direction. Counter steering is the start of that process. Gyroscopic force helps to stabilise this while moving forward.

@DILLIGER90 2 ай бұрын

I am a relatively new but cautious rider, I have been riding a 125cc clutchless for 4 years but finally transitioned to my first bigger bike. I got a used f 650 gs of 2007 and I was absolutely having a blast (until I run into some fuel injection problems but hopefully they 're shorted very soon). I had seen other videos explaining how to ride and feel very justified after watching this one because frankly I don't think there's a correct answer. There are basic principles like don't increase brake pressure on the front wheel unless you currently reducing lean angle to 0 or if it already is at 0, but generally speaking the best way to ride a bike is to never take risks unless you are in a comepletely controlled environment and choose different aspects of riding to focus on and hone your skills on while actively riding and getting a better understanding of. It literally is a matter of trial and error, except we are not talking about the error of crashing, as that will not leave any room for any more errors, it's more about the error of being able and knowing that you can take a turn faster, but you have to slowly work around increasing your speed and maintaining your control over the bike, which slows down the proccess a lot. Time and experience is our best friend.

@CanyonChasers 2 ай бұрын

There's a lot of wisom there. Absolute or overly simple answers rarely work out. Even looking at just the physics. If we look at one specific thing, we can say difinitively this is the answer - until we add in another variable. A lot of what we try to do is look at best practices. What are the best riders in the world (who aren't crashing) doing? Can we do the same thing?

@stevenortega9332 2 ай бұрын

That was beautiful. Thanks for keeping me humble. The more you know, the more you realize you don't know a lot of things. I hope I can someday pay for Champ School Online

@I_am_archie 2 ай бұрын

Thanks, 🤠👍🏻 ride well.

@mikeyd6031 2 ай бұрын

Awesome breakdown of the turning physics. My brother has an old 3-speed bicycle with a steering lock for security. So, of course, I had to try to ride it with the steering locked. It seemed pretty impossible! It would be interesting to try steering and balancing a bicycle or motorcycle with 0 trail. Maybe 2-wheel vehicles are the first example of "smart" technology!

@hunczar 2 ай бұрын

This French guy on YT explained this well enough but in very technical terms…this vid works so well. Thanks!

@CanyonChasers 2 ай бұрын

Sylvain Guintolis channel is awesome!

@garymasterson1174 2 ай бұрын

Brilliant mate

@asudeno Ай бұрын

Great video, though and yes being "aware" of CS and using tons of times at systematic riding, we definetely ask more "why s ?" , thanks..

@curt4moto 15 күн бұрын

I like this more than any other explanation out there! The front of a motorcycle steers directly like any other vehicle. Turn the bars to the right, the wheel goes to the right, and the bike body falls left... Countersteering is just a term for the initiation of a lean into the turn. However, you never addressed the title of this video and the quote that you presented. Where is the mystery? I have seen other videos out there say the same thing without elaborating. I don't think researchers are trying to "solve" a bicycle problem, rather trying to make better computer models. The TU Delft "experiment" was not a revelation into something mysterious, it was a demonstration. The equations show gyro and trail are not necessary for self-steering as there are other things such as steer system flop (gravity) and tire twisting moment.

@CanyonChasers 14 күн бұрын

I spoke with several researchers in making this video - all who declined to be interviewed on camera. Two of them basically said a variation of "we still don't fully understand how bikes work." Granted, their level of detail is greater than most.

@codenameblacksmith Ай бұрын

Watching your videos makes me feel like a scientific rider. Great content.

@LeprosuGnome 2 ай бұрын

It's amazing how all of these concepts and inherent to us riders, our bodies learned and are capable of managing all of these variables without any conscious input

@CanyonChasers 2 ай бұрын

It all gets figured out as little kids, when we are more plastic and adaptable. It's also why training wheels on kids bikes ultimately make it harder to learn to ride.

@erichansen8268 2 ай бұрын

Love it! Helicopters are my other love in the manipulation and balance of physics in three a dimensional conveyance that's tied to my mortality.

@HornetChronicles 2 ай бұрын

thx!

@louismartin4446 2 ай бұрын

Great vid…excellent!..Now can you tell us how to decrease fear when decreasing turn radius…or eliminate our innate fear of lean - that is without low siding!!

@CanyonChasers 2 ай бұрын

We've been working on that one for a while now - the last video about trusting your tires is a precursor. Be sure to check it out.

@louismartin4446 2 ай бұрын

@@CanyonChasers I just hang off my bike to reduce lean angle but my innate fear kicks in at 38 degree or more and I know in dry conditions I should easily get to 45 with constant and tender pull on throttle to maintenance speed or slight accel. At 64 I will take a long time to heal so I have have grown old not wanting to experiment pushing the boundaries- which is what is really required.

@gadgetman_nz4092 29 күн бұрын

Yes, I could ride a bicycle though a winding course without my hands on the handlebars. This means I could not 'push' on the side I wanted to turn, nor pull on the opposite side. This invalidated what was proposed in the @FortNine video on counter steering. If I wanted to turn quickly riding no hands I would give the bike a quick flick in the opposite direction which would cause the bike to lean over more in the direction I wished to go. I could likewise straighten the bike up with no hands. I found this worked on a motorcycle too when my right grip got jammed while on a little throttle.

@charlesbailey8527 2 ай бұрын

Good job

@Schmitzelhaus Ай бұрын

My first reaction to this was: I don´t have a toy motorcycle.... 😢 But then i remembered i do have one modell bike that i had completely forgotten about! Thank you for making me remember that again! 😅👌

@krisswolf2011 2 ай бұрын

Veritasium’s “balance stick on its end” analogy make sense to me. Both motorcycles and balancing stick on its end involves…well, balancing. If you balance a stick vertically, and you want to go left, if you move left directly, the stick will tip right and fall. Versus if you first “countersteer right” by moving your hand right, the stick will start to lean left, now you can move left. Then to stop going left, you move your hand left real quick to be faster than the stick, causing the stick to lean right, and as the stick loses its momentum, you move your hand right just a bit more to make the stick vertical again