How abt the noise of the extractor? Can that be minimised ?

@@prashanthireddig This video kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html tests the noise level of extractors, but to minimise noise the general rules are: a) Use the maximum size ducting (eg: 6 inch diameter or the square equivalent) b) Keep ducting runs as short as possible c) Avoid turning where possible. In reality, you're often limited by what you can do in the room/cabinets/design.

Good video, but it really needs an accompanying exhaust test for recirculating extractors. e.g. if it's not possible to extract externally and the exhaust just comes back into the kitchen, is the humidity/fat/smoke just coming back?

@@Pionirish Great question. Recirculation doesn't change humidity in the room (or more correctly, doesn't remove the increase in humidity from boiling water) so if you're building a new home in the UK you need to have another form of ventilation to meet building regulations. The rate of this is much lower than an extractor and sometimes includes whole house ventilation and heat recovery. For fats & smoke, they should be caught on the grease filter which can then be put in the dishwasher (and being so accessible is more likely to be cleaned as its so easy to remove compared to overhead extractors). Of course, you can still duct these outside and we often do.

i just fitted a kitchen with the same extractor and honestly its too loud , although it has two speed options ,the low speed is useless and full speed is absolutely annoying ,costumer did not expect it either

hehe, the Harrier was an awesome jet - I wish I could afford one and a big enough showroom to put it in :-) For this video, I didn't reduce or alter the sound level when editing and the microphone on my camera picks up things like the creek when I stood on the aluminum stool to blow on the humidistat. That means this video (I'd go as far as to say any video) is not a good way of comparing noise levels of extractors. There is an EU standard requiring manufacturers to test and publish noise levels and other details though and that is as directly comparable between models as you could possible get. You can find them on manufacturers web sites (for this model, media.miele.com/downloads/92/f1/04_F61547C6F7151EE89EB26124135E92F1.pdf ) Thanks for the comment

Hi Fat Tony, I love your harrier comment so much, I featured it in a video where I tested the noise level on this hob :-) kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html I hope you enjoy it!

I'm giving this vid a like because of that comment 🤣💓

Noisy yes.. definitely a last resort for on Islands only. I got a hot pot (urn) to replace my noisy kettle even to reduce such annoyances.

You are welcome!

Hey any regrets buying it?

considering your experience do you think this system is quite enough or it's too loud compared to other competitors. Are you able to find other system like this that are more silent? thanks for the test was very helpful!

@@esserre94 Short answer: I would have this model in my house if I had an island & the budget. We've customers happy with the Neff model too. Long answer: I think it's comparable in noise to others I've seen and heard (Neff & Bora). It may be quieter to use a ceiling mounted flat-to-the-ceiling type (eg: www.neff-home.com/uk/productlist/extractor-hoods/ceiling-installation/integrated-ceiling-hoods/I97CPS8W5B or www.miele.co.uk/e/cooker-hoods-built-in-da-2808-ext-brilliant-white-10751530-p ,especially the external motor versions). Ceiling models can be harder to fit and service (filters need cleaning, how will you reach them?). Installation also affects sound level (recirculation vs extracted to an outside wall, size of ducting used & number of bends means bigger ducting and less turns allow air to move more quietly).

I compare it to the sound of level of your voice. Way too loud.

@@TheBoobanMaybe I'm just quietly spoken 😉. Seriously though, I like your logic but I don't think it's useful to compare any extractor sound level in a youtube video. I'd suggest everyone looks to the standardised tests (linked above) for extractors they're considering and compare a) Sound Level with b) Rate of extraction. Standing next to any extractor at full power will make it harder to have a conversation in the room. In hindsight, maybe I should have edited the audio to reduce the extractor volume and increase my voice.

Hi, thanks for taking the time to comment. With so many comments on the noise level I decided to create a video testing and comparing the noise level of these hobs - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html, I hope you find it useful

Hi Robert, and anyone else also looking for duct size information. Simple rule: The bigger the duct the better. Aim for 6"/150mm nominal ducting (or it's rectangular equivalent). Aim for short runs with as few bends as possible (check out brand: Compair Flow for ducting that has air guide vanes built into bends, improving flow rate and reducing noise of flowing air). Complicated rule: If you are going for a carbon neural design you'll be looking to duct through/exchange stale air through a heat exchanger. Sometimes you'll use a recirculating air setup with carbon filters on the hob. Inevitably the building design impacts what you can actually achieve with ducting routes. Kind regards and thanks for commenting, Steve Feb - Aug 2022: Hi reader. If you're feeling generous, please consider donating a few pounds to my personal challenge to climb a mountain. All donations go directly to 3 chosen charities. More about why I'm doing this here: www.roots.uk/expedition-w3w and you can jump straight to the donation page here sponsorme.charitiestrust.org/event/cbdf1e64-4af4-4905-865d-49ebaedb105b

Thank you for taking the time to say, I'm smiling from ear to ear reading that

Thanks Kate, that's lovely feedback 😊

Could you imagine how little work I'd get done if I got to test and experiment with different products.... it would be fun though :-)

Thanks for taking the time to comment. For heat being sucked out, yes! You're absolutely right. To avoid that you can use the recirculation option (through carbon filters for odour).The heat (and humidity from cooking) being extracted applies to all externally ducted extractors and well as this type of venting hob. Low energy homes often don't have ducted extraction over hobs for this reason, or pass the extracted air through heat exchangers. For noise, see this video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html ;-)

Thanks, and +1 for not mentioning the noise level (covered in kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html when I bought a better microphone) 🙂 For the light, you're right, we'd normally position recessed ceiling lights over the hob and surface. The other con is often the price (often more expensive than a separate hob and extractor) Generally we use these in islands where we don't want to have to duck to look past a hanging ceiling extractor and don't want a flush ceiling extractor (as they can be hard for customers to clean and maintain). If the room has the hob against a wall we almost always use a separate hob + regular wall mounted extractor.

@@RootsKent I think that last point is worth emphasising. Most kitchens have a hob against the wall (only big kitchens can afford the luxury of an island), so you'd actually advocate the traditional wall mounted extractor for most kitchens. Why is that? Is the benefit of this only aesthetically for islands?

@@donovanvaz3289 Yes, when not in an island/peninsular we almost always recommend a wall mount over hob against walls because; a) Cost is often less (obviously depending on models chosen) b) Easier future replacements (a Roots we plan for long working life kitchens so have to consider how easy things are to replace over the next 20 years) c) A wall mount extractor is not an aesthetic compromise (many options to worth either concealed into furniture or as a feature in their own right) An exception is when we don't have the room height to fit an extractor or duct routing would cause a different problem.

Sorry Lukasz, I've not got one on display to test. In case it helps; We've sold that type in the past though and no-one has told me they've had a problem If you were our customer, with the aesthetic being so important, I'd be suggesting you go for your preference as I suspect most of the time you wont be using every pot zone so even if performance at the front zones isn't perfect, the compromise is worthwhile for the aesthetic. I hope that helps

> would the 50cm distance from the hob be enough You'd have to check the specifications of the hob and the furniture supplier, but generally I think 50cm is always too close - you'll have to duck to look at the pans cooking. Personally I aim for at least 76cm. I'd also be choosing a regular extractor at this point though, integrated or telescopic. > would the heat damage the bottom of the cabinet Over an electric hob, I'd be more worried about steam damage. >One of the kitchen suppliers was advising againts hob with integrated extractor, claiming the heat would damage the inside of the cabinet Not something I've experienced or seen before. The warm air travels through ducting (as it would in top cupboards) so I don't see it would ever be an issue. The hot steam is also mixing with air from the room as it's drawn into the extractor so I can't see it would ever be hot enough to cause cabinet damage. > too much heat would draw to your legs, That depends on where you put the outlet vent ;-) When recirculating you definitely notice the blow of air more than a recirculating hood that's blowing out across the ceiling. > and ultimately it would ruin your floor as well Before leaves the plinth it's gone through metal filters (for moisture and grease) and carbon filers (for smell). Moving air will leave trails over time (now you're going to start looking at vents and grills everywhere you go - if air is pumped through them you'll eventually see slightly darker lines of dust being left) but as this is on the floor it will be cleaned more often than a ceiling so I don't think marks would be left and I don't think it would ruin the kitchen floor. >We can only go with recirculate airflow in the new apartment..we can either choose a built-in extractor in the wall cabinet ( still unclear to me how would it circulate the air unless the top of the cabinet is open) or this type of hob. **I'd be choosing the built in extractor, and vents to the open cabinet top (or a grill in a ceiling infil).*** Unless there's a reason not to... there's always an exception after all! For example here's a good reason a wall mounted hood wouldn't fit: www.houzz.com/photos/painted-porcelain-and-blue-shaker-style-cabinetry-rustic-kitchen-kent-phvw-vp~108802023 >Would be also great to hear if this goes next to a wall, how much cleaning you need to do on the kitchen's backsplash (eg.: same as with a normal hob with extractor above or more)! Same as normal I believe (not tested for that). Perhaps a tiny amount less as the air is all being drawn down but I don't think that would be a noticeable difference. So far every hob like this we've installed has been in an island/peninsular with no wall behind it so I don't have any past customers I could call and ask I hope that's useful and sorry for the wall of text! Steve

When you wash your dishes in the dishwasher you pull the filter and wash it together with the dishes No problem at all Actually way better

To minimise draughts, Ideally ducting to outside. When recirculating, ideally not pointing towards your feet where you're standing when cooking but that's not always possible (and extra turns in ducting increase noise so you may trade one minor irritant for another).

I believe it would be powerful enough to disturb the burning of the gas, which would be very bad

I agree. Re run it at each of the available settings. My suspicion is that it won't work.

Unlikely to be possible, but not impossible. The bigger the duct, the quieter+more effective the extraction, so 6 inch is expected (150mm diameter round or the equivalent area as a square, and I'll skip a description here as to why round is better than square due surface area contact). If you can put a large channel in your floor to carry ducting then you can do it, which we did in this room: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/e76qqaV_x9LTe2w.html This room/video has/shows a Bora X Pure. It was easy to plan this at the design stage before the extension was built and we co-ordinated with the builder for this to work (which means I went out and marked on the sub floor where the ducting had to come up during the build, the builder fitted the ducting then built up the floor insulation and screed around it, tiled and we fitted the island on top). If you have to have recirculating I think that's an acceptable compromise for an island hob with no hood in the way of your eyeline (but remember if it's a new build you'll still need a smaller extractor/ventilation for building regs, and I'd look into humidstat fans for that).

Against a wall, we normally use conventional wall mounted extractors. Smoke from oven/grill isn't something I've seen often or investigated to solve, but you can run the extractors all the time you're cooking. Typically an extractor can extract all the air in the room 10 times per hour (obviously depending on how it's specified, and not for fully open plan homes). The smoke may not all be removed immediately but it will help limit how much of it lingers or travels through the rest of the home.

Hi Raj, thanks for the comment and question All the extractor manufacturers publish the noise levels in their appliance specifications and there are a number of variables and caveats that are relevant so it's worth looking at the details relative to your own design plans. For example, ducted setups generally have a higher extraction rate and lower noise level than recirculating setups. They are also affected by the type of ducting you use (bigger = better), how many bends there are (less = better) and how long the ducting is (shorter = better). Comparing models is hard because they also have different extraction rates between models and manufacturers so a hood may be quieter because it's doing less work. All of this before we take into account the room acoustics (for example, the difference between a tile floor vs a carpet floor) For this extractor I used the 'boost' setting (noisiest), our setup is recirculating and the manual says: 510m3/hr, 77dB(A) re 1pW) == 63dB(A) re 20 µPa The microphone used is the one built into the video camera and although I'm pretty sure I made no adjustments to the sound levels on the recording (up or down) I wouldn't base choosing one extractor over another based on a youtube clip sound recording :-) This is the only working 2 in 1 hob we have on display so I've not tested any other brands but from experience I'd expect similar performance and noise from Neff's 'venting hob' or the Bora models. Generally, I've found extractors work fine on medium or high settings (rather than 'boost' or 'intensive') if you turn them on as soon as you go to start cooking and allow time for a flow of air to build up. Also to leave them running on low for a while after cooking as that flow will still help capture air and remove the smells. Many extractors now come with an automatic run on timer (including this model). I hope that helps! Steve PS - If you like Raspberry Pi, you might like to see how this Pi got reused after the video: www.rkbb.co.uk/tweets-from-viewfromroots

Yes, that's right. In the UK for new rooms (new build/extension) you have to also have mechanical extraction to meet building regulations and prevent high humidity levels, and thus prevent other issues high humidity brings. If you can duct your hob extractor to outside the hob itself meets the building regulation requirement so you don't need a second extractor.

If I've a hob against a wall I still design with a wall mounted extractor. For noise, it's depends more upon the motor design and ducting. My video kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html talks about noise on extractors with the short answer being: Check the EU standard noise test results for the extractor you're looking at, to compare between models (and since this video I've bought better microphones!).

Sure, email showroom@rkbb.co.uk

thanks 😊Answer Short version: Recirculating works, just remember to replace the carbon filters from time to time to remove cooking odours Long version: I would love to find a way to test carbon filters effectiveness at removing odour but I've not found an official test to copy or a rating scale. However, carbon/odour filters have been used for many years in kitchen and also in industry, so I'm confident they work. One advantage to recirculating is that you're not taking your warm home air outside and having to reheat new air coming into the home. One disadvantage is that you still need some form of external extraction (for building regs, essentially to stop humidity building up in the home). A small extractor fan can do this, I like the humidistat controlled versions that boost when humidity is high then drop to a low flow rate at other times. The total volume of extraction of these is much lower than a kitchen extractor but they are allowed/work because they run continuously rather than rely on being turned on when someone is cooking. I hope that helps Steve

That's right, which is not always easy to do so most of the ones we fit use the recirculating filter option. The hob in this video kzfaq.info/get/bejne/e76qqaV_x9LTe2w.html is ducted outside under the floor because we were involved in the design phase of the extension.

Hi, thanks for taking the time to comment. With so many comments on the noise level I decided to create a video testing and comparing the noise level of these hobs - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html, I hope you find it useful (at the end I talk about where to get comparisons between models, which would include regular wall mounted extractors)

Hi, sorry for the long reply about to follow... ok, I'm not sorry :-) Short version: Not enough condensation captured to be a problem, so yes most goes through the fans and outside(ducted) or back into room (recirculation). Liquid: For spills, see kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a7JperKnnpbLaas.html where I spill Bolognese sauce into his hob. So this applies to all extractors, some of the moisture in the air will be captured by the metal filters as condensation. I can't tell you how much.... but now you've asked that could be a fun experiment. Leave that with me...., Some of the moisture will travel all the way through. Not enough moisture is captured to be a problem and I've always assumed it evaporates back into the air over time. These type of extractors have catch trays for other spills (see my other video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a7JperKnnpbLaas.html where I spill sauce into this hob) and from memory around 200ml seems a common catch tray size and that's after however much moisture is captured by the mesh. Wall hoods don't have any catch tray, which is why I don't think condensation beyond the grease filter is an issue. Therefore, I'm assuming that moist of the moisture travels all the way through and out the wall if you have ducting or back into the room if you have recirculating. In the UK, if you have a new build house and a recirculating extractor you need to have another form of air extraction in the room - often a small fan - to manage the humidity and atmosphere of living in a well sealed and energy efficient new build home (think: humidity in air you breath, sweat, odours, stale air that you've breathed out, etc), so that's another reason I think most humidity passes through the extractor (if the filter was catching it, it would all evaporate back into room and we'd still need separate extractors for our building regulations). I hope that helps, Steve (I welcome any reader with more knowledge to chip in here!)

There are only 4 zones on this hob (and most I've seen like it) so they're all equally distant from the extractor in the centre. This was a small pan but centred on the zone, so for larger pans I've seen them work just the same (See kzfaq.info/get/bejne/b6uqmbWnqq2Uqac.html although I had the extractor on the minimum setting to limit the noise pickup on the microphone).

Short answer: Yes - that's the best practice. Long answer: Yes, and this model will automatically turn it's extractor on as soon as your turn on a hot zone :-). The reason is it takes time to start moving the air to make it flow. Starting the extractor soon often allows you to run it at a lower speed (so it's quieter). Once you finish cooking you should often leave the extractor running on low, so you'll still collect humidity and smells from pans on the hob taking advantage of the flow you've built up whilst not having so much noise. Many extractors (95% sure this model does) automatically run for 10 minutes on low setting before switching off for this reason. If you're extracting to outside, you may also need to consider where the air you're removing is being replaced from. It could be enough from the gaps around doors into the room or you may benefit from opening a window slightly. If you have an 'open flue' appliance (a boiler or fire that gets air to burn from the room it's in) we're not allowed to fit extractors ducted to outside. They'll pull the air out of the room, sucking the burnt air from the chimney back into the room and that creates a strong risk of carbon dioxide poisoning.

All extractors have standardised EU data sheets so you can compare various performance metrics and these should be available from the manufacturer. This particular model has a datasheet at media.miele.com/downloads/92/f1/04_F61547C6F7151EE89EB26124135E92F1.pdf The noise level is given for different rates of extraction and those rates are different for each model, so they are not directly comparable but give a good indicator as to what you can expect. For example this model says 49dB at 170m3/hr and 71dB at 490m3/hr. The noise level also varies depending on whether it is recirculating or ducted and the natural acoustics of the room. Having said all that, my instinct is that all extractors that draw the air down are going to need to move more air faster than extractors overhead and my *assumption* therefore is they will generally be noisier as a result. The only way to know for certain is to compare the model specification sheets and I've seen some traditional extractors that are very noisy, especially where they're made to the lowest price possible. I hope that helps!

Hi Steve I would be interested to know if you have any comparisons or thoughts on the extractors ability to extract smells?

Sorry for the slow reply, I've been busy with the real job :-) I haven't seen any. Miele have some external motors (or used to, I haven't looked for one for several years). Bora have a booster option that can along the ducting run if I recall, again I haven't needed that. The main question now though is why you need it? The built in hob motor is normally more than powerful enough to extract sufficient air (and the Bora option I recall is for very long duct runs). It used to be something we considered for noise reduction but a great deal of the noise you hear now is the moving air, which makes that noise wherever the motor is placed. Motors have got significantly quieter over time. There's another video i made comparing noise of extractor but the short version is; don't compare by listening on youtube, go to the EU standard specification which has standardised noise level test results. If you find the one for your current extractor (I think they go back 20 years or more) then I expect you'll see extractors can be quieter than your current model. I hope that helps, Steve

Thanks for saying hello, and yes I still think these are the best option/design/solution for hobs being placed on islands or peninsulars. See the follow up video that covers noise kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html which will help you pick between models from different manufacturers. There are a lot of good questions that have been asked over the last 3 years in these comments so it's worth scrolling down to learn more.

@@RootsKent Thanks very much!

Hi, there are several things that impact the choice. Primarily - what your suppliers have access to/installers are used to is a good place to start. Then - budget. If you're staying for a long time you'll appreciate the quality of quieter models (see one of the other videos on noise from extractors built into hobs). Then - dimensions. Some recirculating models may use more width or worktop depth or height inside cabinet. Then - if you're against a wall, overhead extractors are still good options (especially if you're on a budget). Then - somewhere in there, the spec. Features like Flex Induction vs regular round zones and how much of a difference that makes to your use and budget. Sorry that's not a single option of "buy this one!" Flat implies limited space and storage, I quite like the Bora S Pure 60cm if the zone sizes work for you (they do for 90% of people I'd assume). If you need 4 x full size zones a regular 4 zone induction hob and extractor mounted over (I have this, 5 years ago venting hobs hadn't advanced enough to be right for my home. Today... vented would be tempting.) Hope that helps! Steve

Ah, they do, I manually overrode the automatic setting for this video. Most of these style of hobs either a) turn the extractor on automatically and vary setting depending on power setting of hob, or b) use a sensor (probably a humidistat hidden behind a marketing name) to vary the speed automatically.

If you connect the ducting to outside, it goes outside. If you recirculate some of the humidity is caught temporarily on the filters the rest returns to the room (and all of it returns to the room eventually). This is the same as over hob extractors. I have an experiment in mind to play with steam and humidity to demonstrate this but it will be a while before have time to play :-)

It sounds noisy in this video, but kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html is the video that compares extractor noise, I bought new microphones ;-)

I spilt a whole pan of Bolognese sauce to test that kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a7JperKnnpbLaas.html

> I am really torn as to if I should get a hood or an extractor built into the hob You've come to the right place :-) > My worry is that hob based extractors are significantly worse than hood ones It depends on what and why you're choosing. Hob based extractors like this Miele model out perform made-to-the-lowest-cost wall mounted hoods every time. You can compare performance parameters from the EU product data fiche (mentioned at the end of the noise video I did recently - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html ). >Laws of thermodynamics say no given that steam rises. What are your experiences? That's why I built a humidistat to test. They are equally good to wall mounted hoods (subject to being comparable power/noise/ducting etc). >Also function is more important than looks for me in this regard. Do they work as effectively or better than hood based extractors? Yes, for an equal product spec/rate/etc, they perform equally. My general rule is I use these where I don't have a wall (islands/peninsulas). Ceiling mounted extractors are also a good option but I can struggle with ensuring it's easy for the customer to maintain them (wash and replace filters). Extractors that hang from the ceiling have easy to reach filters but are often in the line of sight to be annoying when using the kitchen and talking to people. If you are against a wall, I'd stick with a wall mounted hood. If you are in an island, the built in hob extractor is often the best option today If you're reading this very long reply and found it useful, please click like on the video and subscribe. That helps other people like us find answers like this and helps me be seen by people local to our small business that need rooms done well. Thanks! Steve.

@@RootsKent Thanks for the reply! In terms of performance do you know if Siemens / Miele / Bora perform similarly or if one is better than the other in terms of suction?

@@Persason I'd always look to the specification sheets for the models you're looking at. The standardised EU testing means you can fairly compare between them (see link in the pinned comment on this video). Remember actual performance will vary depending on your room, ducting used, etc. Performance isn't the only worthwhile criteria though, I'd also consider how they look, how they fit into cupboards (eg: if they take away space you need for storage), how easy filters are to access and clean (I did a video spilling bolognaise into one as an example) and any cooking functions and features they have that may have an impact on the one that's best for you.

I made another video for this - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a7JperKnnpbLaas.html with a whole pan of bolognaise sauce spilled into the vent.

** Important note on Jam on induction below!** Thanks for commenting, hopefully you found the video where I spilled a whole jar of bolognaise sauce into the hob kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a7JperKnnpbLaas.html For Jam - the temperature of the sugars if spilled on the glass can damage the glass (something to do with the very high temperature of the sugars and a chemical reaction that happens, I forget the detail). For an induction hob you can put a heatproof layer between the pan and glass. Years ago I was told a tea towel will work, but I expect baking paper would too. That way any spills are caught by the towel/paper and don't land on the glass. If it does, the glass will be pitted, but no fail, so just become harder to clean and be generally annoying. Regular jam making is still a good reason to consider a gas hob (one of the few good reasons now!)

Try kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html for the noise testing video ;-)

That's what I was testing in this video by setting up a humidstat :-) I would have one on an island or peninsular. Against a normal wall we use a regular hood. - This is also what we recommend to customers too. For reliable job: with all extractors remember to start them running before you start cooking and leave them running on low for a short while after. It takes time to get a flow of air going. Many models now automatically turn on when you start cooking and run on automatically too.

@@RootsKent thanks, actually i was considering this against wall.. is that innefective?

@@jaytee1205 Against a wall works fine too, but at that point if you can use a regular hood and hob you have more choice at (often) lower price points for the same performance level. Aesthetically though, If you're aiming for the look of a clear wall then the venting hobs achieve that and is perfect.

Good question. Recirculating extractors have been an option for a long time (and commonly chosen, sometimes to save the cost of drilling walls, sometimes due to restricted access for ducting, sometimes due to regulations extractor air from a room with gas appliance and flue) and I've not known this humidity alone to be a problem. The metal mesh will collect an amount of the moisture but I assume that must evaporate back into the room over time. Remember this extractor and most others can be ducted outside too, if you can fit your ducting into floor voids!

"Please tell me what I missed" => nothing :-) I agree an overhead extractor will often be better (like www.miele.co.uk/e/ceiling-extractor-da-2808-brilliant-white-10851410-p - as close as quickly comes to mind for the equivalent overhead version of the extractor in this video), but; * They still have the same question of ducting or recirculation and whether that can be fitted (EG: in this kitchen kzfaq.info/get/bejne/e76qqaV_x9LTe2w.html overhead is not possible, although you never see the skylights in the video, sorry!) * We also need to consider access for servicing, for example changing and cleaning filters. If I can avoid needing customers to climb ladders or stand on worktops (or hobs 😬) then I'd generally want to. There's a balance to be found and it's different for every customer and every room, so you've not missed anything and no one needs to be converted

Sorry, we don't sell AEG so I dont know. However many hobs like this are now specified as ducted or recirculating when you order them, so they come with some of the right parts for recirculating (filters mostly, and even for recirculating there are times when you'll want to use ducting specific to your room to recirculate the air).

@@RootsKent thank you, I’m finding it so hard to find out any information on this! I’ve ordered the AEG 6000, it says it’s recirculating so it will use carbon filters, however, the guy in wren is saying we should be able to duct it… but can I get any info… not as yet! My builder needs to know so he knows what to do with the floor! Do you think I’ll have any issues with it being recirculated anyway? I’m panicking as I always thought it was going out the wall! 🫣

@@eyeliciousbrowlashskinclin6671 surely Wren should know this, especially if they specified it.... still, on the AEG site they have different models for ducted vs recirculating so I'd normally order the correct one (otherwise there can be issues with warranty even if an unrelated fault develops). www.aeg.co.uk/kitchen/cooking/hobs/extractor-hob/?d2cSellable=true Checking www.aeg.co.uk/kitchen/cooking/cooker-hoods/induction-hob-with-extractor/tch74b01cb/ it looks like it vents to the void behind the cabinet (not for use on a building's outside wall, potential condensation from warm air cooling quickly) but there's a reasonable chance that's a standard size duct outlet and you can buy ducting to fit... though ducting can be hard to find and not inexpensive. There's also a chance the ducted vs recirculating models may have different settings to suit their use (eg power setting of the fans, whether other parts are fitted or not to hold filters). If you get it and duct it post back as maybe someone else is having the same question. Thanks and good luck! Steve

I've heard of them but never seen one to play with. You can probably tell I will lean heavily on the technical sheets too, so couple that with a hands on look if you can (to consider cleaning, filter changing, etc),installation (how easy or not it is to fit in your cabinets), + cost of course, and if on balance it looks the best for your room that's perfect. I'm not sure the 90 degree / 180 degree would make too much of a difference to performance as the 180 degree is like 2 x 90 degree back to back with cooking either side. It might allow for larger filters so less noise generated from air moving through them? (For noise video see kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html ) From the view of using the hob, I think there's something to be said for a wide single row of cooking zones rather than 2x2 layout (if you have the width, it's perhaps nicer than leaning over one pan to stir the pan at the back, plus it might be useful for limiting depth required for hob & worksurface).

How much moisture or grease misses the overhead due to the distance between them both?

@@markh1ggins hard to say but I would say less than in the table top extractor. The grease and steam is hot so is already rising upwards towards the overhead

I've got a big overhead extractor and that still misses some of the rising smoke / steam too.

Interesting! I've been investigating moisture and recirculating for a while but I'm some way off doing some proper tests. A few things to check/try: (I'm assuming lichen is autocorrect for kitchen... ) If it's a new property ducted to outside extraction is normally required but it doesn't have to be via the hob/extractor (see www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/common-projects/kitchens-and-bathrooms/building-regulations-need-for-additional-ventilation) So if your hob has been installed as recirculating is there another extractor somewhere? It can be quite small, especially continuous running/trickle vents (humidistat controlled types boost when high moisture is detected). I'd have thought the room extraction would handle moisture from cooking (and it's not a problem I've come across, but as we're moving to more island hobs and recirculation it's what I'm curious to experiment with). If it's wet on the floor... then I'm assuming the exit vent is on the plinth and you have a tiled or cold floor and the moist air is condensing as it passes across the floor. But then I'm thinking that air should be slightly warmer and as it leaves the plinth diffuses and rises quickly. I'd assume it's not the whole floor and just the area by the vent? If it's the whole floor then I'd start to think it's something other than moist air recirculated from the hob. I'd be looking to rule out other sources now, eg: damp coming through the floor (screed still drying so the room humid enough for moisture to condense overnight as it cools, or a small slow leak hidden under cabinets or behind something that's just enough to cause high humidity without being high enough to show as water). I wonder if opening a window during and for a while after cooking reduces or removes the problem and I wonder if different cooking changes the impact (eg: does it happen if you're not using the hob to boil water for a week and eating oven meals. If it happens with the hob can you make it happen in the morning by cooking the same meal or just boiling water for 10 minutes). Sorry I haven't got an answer but when you solve it please come back and comment so other people can learn from your efforts too. Thanks and good luck, Steve

@@RootsKent - Hi Steve, thank you for your comprehensive reply. The Neff Induction Hob is installed in a large island unit, the installation by the builder was what he called a "short" ventilation duct which discharged into the plinth area underneath the island. This resulted the warm moist air being discharged from the gaps all around the bottom of the plinth kick board, causing moisture to condense all around the island unit on the concrete floor which is covered with Kardean flooring. At my request the duty from the hob extraction fan has been extended to the grille in the kick board, so that it exits at that point only. The first time we have used it, we noticed that the floor was becoming damp! My property is a new bungalow, and has an internal utility room adjacent to the kitchen, and there is an internal ventilation fan in this room, we have achieved some success keeping the door open and utilising this fan. We have not tried opening the kitchen window, since it defeats the object of keeping the room heated! I feel that this is a classic issue of something that looks good in the showroom, but in reality, present some issues such as condensation onto hard impermeable floor surfaces. We use a steamer to cook our vegetables, and have been trying differing levels of power input from the induction hob to limit the amount of steam being generated. I will keep you updated on progress with this issue. Regards George

Yes that's a problem - don't do it! ... more detail on why below: It sounds like your stove is more than just a hob, maybe an gas/oil powered AGA/range also running heating and it burns air from the room. The burnt gas exits the stove through the vent to outside (otherwise you'd be poisoned by the CO2 released when burning gas). If you have an extractor in the room that vents to outside, the air it pushes out has to be replaced. The stove vent becomes an easy way for air to flow back into the room, so the gas you wanted to take outside is now back in your room, and that's bad. It doesn't help to close that vent just when the extractor is running either, because if the stove is also running it's producing CO2 and you really want that to leave the room so you're not poisoned. If you're now wondering why we can have boilers in kitchens and still extract outside, modern boilers have a "balanced flue". If you look you'll see there's a pipe within a pipe so the boiler combustion chamber is fed with fresh air from outside and the burnt air exits through the same double pipe. This is also why with modern boilers we don't need air vents to outside. In older homes you'll often find large holes in the wall to allow air to flow in replacing the air a boiler or fireplace has burnt. Holes like this let the cold air in too, which is why modern buildings generally avoid open fires as this makes them less efficient. What do we do: In rooms with an appliance that burns gas or oil that has a traditional flue, we NEVER duct outside. We recirculate. Recirculation is fine though. You'll have to replace carbon filters occasionally but they are effective at removing smells. For humidity and building regs you might need a low volume mechanical extractor or it might be the open vent meets the requirements. I always find myself going back to read the regs in detail to make sure I've got our specific use case correct - try assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1045918/ADF1.pdf I hope that helps Steve

Our recommendation changes depending on our customers needs. We like Miele, Neff & Bora models but remember we're a small business and don't get to see and play with every manufacturers products. The choice is often a factor of price, installation (how and where ducting connects, space taken inside of cabinet) and aesthetic (see the 'black and brass' video kzfaq.info/get/bejne/e76qqaV_x9LTe2w.html - this Bora model is all black whereas the Miele in this video has stainless steel).

Thanks. This reminds me that in the UK growing up, we spelt 'downdraft' as 'downdraught' but Neff UK use the American form 'Downdraft' in their marketing too.

How tall? Next time I'm filming I'll see if I can get hold of one to test. (That will probably be a few months though, we're a small kitchen retailer and very busy right now). My assumption is it will work fine based on how high above the hob I had the humidistat.

See this video: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a7JperKnnpbLaas.html The first amount of water (depending on hob, assume half a litre ish) is caught by the filter. Any more will fall to the tray at the bottom (you see me cleaning Bolognese off that tray in video). The fans are mounted below the hob and suck 'upwards', so the water can't reach the fan blades and motor, or at least that would be several litres of water and if you have that much water pouring into your hob you may have bigger problems to worry about.

It was the best way :-) Windows laptop to VNC onto the Raspberry Pi to display in almost real time (I think the lag was a second or two). One day I'll get to making the video where I use arduino's and Raspberry Pi's to display shower flow rates and control our showroom display TV by IR signals.

I think, barely any noticeable effect... but that sounds like an interesting experiment (for when I'm less busy!). I think heat transfer to air is very slow and although moving air can transfer more heat it's still going to be very slow. So I think hot pan will cool almost as slowly with the extractor on as with the extractor off.

hahahahha this comment is super underrated

I like the comment very much lol

Hi, thanks for taking the time to comment. With so many comments on the noise level I decided to create a video testing and comparing the noise level of these hobs - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html, I hope you find it useful (and sorry to say, as an aviation nut myself your comment was narrowly missed out featuring in that video, beaten by the comparison to a Harrier jet 😄)

Hi, thanks for taking the time to comment. With so many comments on the noise level I decided to create a video testing and comparing the noise level of these hobs - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html, I hope you find it useful

Thanks. You'll be pleased to know I bought better microphones after this and did a video demonstrating just the sound level: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html :-)

Does this extractor sound noisy to you? If you think it does and you're comparing extractor models please don't use a youtube video to compare noise :-) You should know for this video; * I didn't reduce or alter the sound level in editing and * The microphone I was using is the one attached to the camera, I've not even got a tie mic and you can even hear the creak of the aluminium stool I stand on at 1:54 Because I *could* have played with sound levels in editing it's not a good idea to trust noise level comparisons on a youtube video. If noise level is a consideration check the manufacturers specification sheet. There's a standardised EU data sheet for every extractor so you can compare like with like, for this model it can be viewed here: media.miele.com/downloads/92/f1/04_F61547C6F7151EE89EB26124135E92F1.pdf Thanks for watching! Steve

Hi, thanks for taking the time to comment. With so many comments on the noise level I decided to create a video testing and comparing the noise level of these hobs - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html, I hope you find it useful

Nanu Siri no you have to buy a new One

This one (and the Neff one we've sold, and when I last looked in detail at a Bora model) are designed so that spills down the vent hole won't do damage. for this model the pull out vents have a catch tray underneath them and that whole pull out unit can be put in the dishwasher. Below that is a further catch tray that can be removed from within the cabinet.

Sorry for the slow reply, I've been busy with the real job :-) Yes, they work. Although I've yet to find a way of testing the effectiveness of odour removal. Anecdotally carbon filters have been removing smells for years and I've not met anyone in the industry that says they don't work. That does assume the filters are replaced regularly of course. Many clients that say to us they don't work have never replaced the filters. When to change the filters is also hard to say as it will vary depending on the type and amount of cooking you are doing. Most manufacturers recommend between 6 months and 12 months. Some newer types of filter are designed to be 'refreshed'/'regenerated' in an oven and can be effective for years. These cost more and are larger and I've noticed the trend is away from this style as consumers are choosing easier to access and/or less expensive to initially buy filter models. I hope that helps, Steve

Forgot to say, thank you for the great videos, they are really helpful (this one and the neff oven door cleaning one especially!)

Hi Matthew, from my experience, both are technically correct! However... Whilst you can have cupboards 50cm above induction hobs, I think that's too low for everyday use * I would be ducking and peering under the cupboards to see the pans at the back, and I'm only 5'10"/178cm tall!) * see also: next video about to be released on self cleaning ovens, which I filmed at home and you can see the extractor steps up over my hob for exactly this reason. For moisture, * I'd still be very alert to potential damage over time. I think it's hard to assume that users of the hob/extractor would always turn it on fully and leave it running after the hob heating is turned off. * Higher than 50cm would be less likely to damage giving time for any escaped steam to dissipate a little. * I'd probably be looking to use some sort of wipeable/damp proof finishing panel in that area So, in this case I prefer your kitchen company's answer over the Elica answer! I'd also argue that if you've space for wall units over a venting hob, then you've space for a regular wall mounted extractor (of a myriad design styles, so aesthetics shouldn't be a problem). At which point, I'd probably* be have a non venting induction hob and separate extractor based on a) ease of future replacements should either fail b) probably total cost is less. We use venting hobs mostly in islands/peninsulars. Against a wall (not that I can remember us doing this) I'd be assuming no wall units as an overall aesthetic. *Reasons that won't work: Low eaves meaning maybe you can't duct outside from a wall mounted extractor, other wall features/protrusions/piers/nibs/beams that make it too complicated fit around.

You're very welcome! and thank you for taking the time to comment.

​@@RootsKent Thank you for the great advice! Looks like I'll go for a recirculating extractor above the induction then... unfortunately venting isn't an option for an extractor above the hob due to the presence of a beam. There is the possibility to vent it if I use the elica but it sounds like it wouldn't be the best idea due to the possibility of water damage to the wall units over time? Thank you again!!

EU regulations require every hob to have a standardised test and the results have to be published by manufacturers. This helps you compare performance between models. You can normally find a link to the report on the manufacturers product page. For the hob you're looking for, at the time of writing, you can find it here: media3.neff-international.com/Documents/eudatasheet/en-GB/T48TD7BN2.pdf

@@RootsKent thank you for the information

Yes. If you're replacing an extractor that's ducted you'll most likely need to continue to extract outside though (building regulations/moisture level control in the property) If you can't connect this style of extractor to outside (as you probably can't run ducting through the floor and if you've using it in an island) then you can fit this style of hob as recirculating (with carbon filters for smell) and a secondary small extractor elsewhere (possibly using the same exterior vent hole, we've used humidistat controlled versions for this in the past).

For noise, this video kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html talks about the sound levels of these extractors. Effective at low speeds? That's an interesting question. I can't give numbers or objective values but subjectively I think it starts automatically on low and middle speeds and they've been effective for the short demonstrations we do in the showroom. In this video I did put it on full noisiest power level to see if it could capture all the steam. Hope that helps

Hi, thanks for taking the time to comment. With so many comments on the noise level I decided to create a video testing and comparing the noise level of these hobs - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html, I hope you find it useful

Like this - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a7JperKnnpbLaas.html :-)

Easily spill over bubbling water.

New video: I spilt a whole pan of bolognese into it to see what happened kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a7JperKnnpbLaas.html 😁

@@TheBooban New video: I spilt a whole pan of bolognese into it to see what happened kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a7JperKnnpbLaas.html 😁

Ah yes, can I recommend this youtube video of the totally silent model of this hob -> kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html 🙂

hehe, yeah, I bought a better microphone and made this video kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html to talk about choosing hobs/extractors based on noise levels 😉

That's excellent, thanks for commenting, I hadn't come across that term for it at all!

🤣

See the pinned comment on extractor noise ;-)

@@RootsKent I am joking mate. Your video is great.

omg.. i’m sorry but that sounds too funny 😂

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a7JperKnnpbLaas.html - one step ahead of me!

This ... kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a7JperKnnpbLaas.html 😁😁

I bought new microphones since this, kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iaiWrNZ6y6u4nJs.html is the video that compares extractor noise