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@olivernp75152 жыл бұрын
Messiaen is such a great composer. Turangalila Symphonie is amazing.
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
Completely agreed
@lorifairhead81242 жыл бұрын
I discovered Messiaen randomly picking up a record because I liked the cover art and was so very pleased. Lately I found Vingt Regards Sur l'Enfant Jesus and am again reliving my passion and enchantment, his music inspired me to start drawing and also I transcribed some of his music for classical guitar. I only found one guy who has tried to play his music on guitar on You-Tube but it is amazing. Thanks for this talk he is my favourite composer.
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
An amazing composer
@jayducharme2 жыл бұрын
Fascinating! I never understood Messiaen's music. I want to go back and listen to it, now that I know what he's doing.
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
Go for it. It’s wonderful music.
@iwright6212 жыл бұрын
Hi Gareth , clearly explained as usual . It will be interesting to hear the harmonic possibilities these give . Composers seem to obsessed with organising - they think differently , perhaps more like architects . I think a combination of strict organising of notes and using our ears more, to hear what they are saying to us instinctively can work well . Thank you again for sharing your lessons .
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely. Point well made.
@jimlynch222 жыл бұрын
Another gem! I can't wait do do some composing with these ideas. Fortunately a link to the sheet music is provided, as it is rather blurred in the video.
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
Enjoy!
@markchapman68002 жыл бұрын
I sang a piece at a choir festival many years ago, and was interested to see the use of a scale where both F and B were "sharp", i.e. had a tendency to move up. I thought that it was inventive of the composer, but now suspect that they were just using Messian's 5th mode.
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
Could have been
@Scriabinfan5932 жыл бұрын
I've been waiting for this one, thank you for the great content.
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
A pleasure
@tintchetia54152 жыл бұрын
Thank you Gareth for another interesting theory lesson.!!
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here kzfaq.info/love/8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQgjoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
@alandenton29732 жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed this. I had never heard of Messiaen (sorry) but I am definitely going to listen to some of his music and see if I can see what he is doing. Thankyou very much .
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
It’s wonderful music
@StephenB_LE92 жыл бұрын
Hi Gareth, If we think of modal music (those Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, Lochrian modes used in jazz) - I think of Miles Davis and "Kind of Blue". He harmonised modes using chords of 4ths. The mode was apparent because of the root of the mode was in the bass. He also emphasised the characteristic note of each mode. My question is - what harmonies go with Messiaen's modes? In a standard western diatonic major scale we build chords using 1, 3, 5. if we dis that on Messiaen's modes of limited transposition we'd get some very odd sounds ? so - please, a video on Messiaen's harmony?
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
Sure. The harmony is also derived from the mode he is using. There’s no reference to conventional diatonic harmony.
@RanBlakePiano2 жыл бұрын
Fabulous talk Messiaen ,Monk !
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
😀
@kaylaclarinetpiano2 жыл бұрын
Hi Gareth! This is a question for four part harmony writing. Can Ic V appear during the melody or does it have to be a cadence? Thank you so much and Music Matters is the best music channel I have ever seen!!!!
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
You can certainly use it during a phrase. Thanks for your support
@Voidermusic5 ай бұрын
I noticed you have no particular video on your channel about the modes in general! Would be a good idea for upcoming videos :)
@MusicMattersGB5 ай бұрын
We’ve got a general introduction to modes video.
@Voidermusic5 ай бұрын
@@MusicMattersGB Ah yeah, but that was rather short. I meant a bigger "general" overview, with more information about the flats and sharps that each mode 'wants' and why, the different feelings of the individual modes and these things! :)
@MusicMattersGB5 ай бұрын
@Voidermusic Fair enough
@Cryseris2 жыл бұрын
Incredible video! Have you done a video on set theory yet?
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
See our video on Serialism
@kencory24762 жыл бұрын
Most of these modes are very familiar to jazzers like myself, but I think we use them more in improvisation rather than in composing songs, if such a distinction can be made. Improvisations can fly above the chord changes, I think, but to write a song you need to tie the melody to the underlying harmony, and this constraint makes it hard for both the songwriter and her audience to make sense of these modes. Comments invited.
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
Certainly with composition there is space to plan in greater detail.
@lorifairhead81242 жыл бұрын
The 2nd mode you describe is the diminished scale.
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
😀
@samddee4546 ай бұрын
Makes you wonder what was Messiaen's criteria for choosing the particular notes that make up each mode? Functionality? Aesthetics?
@MusicMattersGB6 ай бұрын
He genuinely found them beautiful and they enabled him to speak in his own musical language.
@christianbrobst34862 жыл бұрын
Hello! First time catching one of your videos. I was scrolling to see what other topics I could find that you taught. I kept seeing your channel but I thought the guy in the title pic was a different guy so I kept looking and the more I saw “that guy” the more I thought it was funny that there was another guy with so many similarities to you. It finally hit me that it was actually you!! 😅 you look a lot healthier than 3 years ago! Edit: now I’m confused, do you use pictures from different times of your life or is there actually another guy who looks just like you?
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
Yes, I’m the same guy! Intentional weight loss.
@pbarreto2 жыл бұрын
Is there a notion of functional harmony when using these modes? We'd probably need to consider chords VIII or IX for some of them, but still, can we define something like dominant chords, progressions, cadences in some meaningful (or at least not entirely arbitrary) way for these modes?
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
It’s not conventional functional harmony
@malcolmledger1762 жыл бұрын
Check out Messiaen`s "The Technique of My Musical Language". (English version available.) A real eye opener on his work. Contains everything you will need to know.
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely right
@daisyduke74732 жыл бұрын
Great class!! Thank you!!!
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here kzfaq.info/love/8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQgjoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
@NeilRaouf Жыл бұрын
Ravel-Messiaen-Debussy-Holdsworth Go folks. Expand your horizont!
@MusicMattersGB Жыл бұрын
Absolutely
@estebanperezgueren85182 жыл бұрын
Now armonize the scales and have fun whit this new world of sounds 😁
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
Enjoy!
@jantuitman2 жыл бұрын
But what ARE these modes? I feel a bit dissatisfied that the answer is given in terms of just listing the modes, because I can feel the presence of a mathematical construction rule that dictates how you obtain these modes and that these modes are also the only possible modes following these rules. I suspect it is something like 12 is 12 x 1, 6 x 2, 4 x 3, 3 x 4, 2 x 6, 1 x 12. 12 x 1 is the chromatic scale. 6 x 2 leads to 1 new mode, the whole tone scale. Then at 4 x 3 I get a bit lost. I can see that 1 + 2 is 1 new mode and that this same mode also covers 2 + 1 because if you transpose the scale 1 semitones you’d get the same results with 1 + 2 that you would get if not transposing and doing 2 + 1 . But at that point I get stuck, because I think, why was 4 groups of just 2 notes skipped? E.g. if you take the notes C, Eb, F# , A , C and treat this as 4 groups of just 1 interval of 3 semitones? Was this skipped because it has too few notes in it to act as a scale or is it too trivial or…?
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
There’s a danger of looking for connections that were perhaps not intended. Each mode offers a different melodic and harmonic landscape.
@jantuitman2 жыл бұрын
@@MusicMattersGB maybe Messiaen didn’t intend to use all possible combinations. But it seems highly unlikely (since there are so few options of dividing the 12 semitones of an octave in equally sized intervals and each group must have the same interval in order to fit the same pattern of steps inside it) that he missed one. So I just wonder if there is any known reason why C,Eb,F#,C in 4 groups wasn’t used by him, at least not in the sense as “this is a mode”?
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
I don’t know of a known reason.
@jantuitman2 жыл бұрын
@@MusicMattersGB I played around with it this morning and then I realized that the 1ST+ 2ST 4 groups scale of course also contains these notes and some more while also having 4 groups, so maybe the thing that I was missing is that if there is a more fine grained scale with equal number of groups, it isn’t necessary to add the restricted version with less notes as a separate mode.
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
Excellent reflection
@jimlynch222 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
A pleasure! Thank you very much for your generosity and support for the channel!
@MattScottMusic2 жыл бұрын
It would help if the page on the right was readable.
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
Just checked. Looks perfectly legible. Maybe you’re reading it on too small a screen?
@martinbennett22282 жыл бұрын
Interesting and thank you. I had worked out a few of these 'modes' for myself. Now I discover Messiaen had worked out a comprehensive set of modes (Now I wonder why I had not noticed - I shall listen out for this system in the future). I think some other composers had been doing this before. Aside from Debussy, I am thinking of Scriabin, Liszt and a few others. The one aspect you might have emphasised a bit more is the 'democratic' nature of these modes, which prevent them settling into diatonic harmony. Incidentally, shouldn't the chromatic scale also be a mode in this system? Or did Messiaen want to avoid this?
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
I think Messiaen was moving away from the chromatic and other conventional scales. His modes certainly offer lots of scope.
@martinbennett22282 жыл бұрын
@@MusicMattersGB What I find is that these non-diatonic modes offer an ability to write melody that lacks a defined key whilst remaining melodic. I wish I had the ability to realise the musical composition though.
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
😀
@corentinmusique7 ай бұрын
Hi! Is there a video on how to harmonized messiaen modes please ?
@MusicMattersGB7 ай бұрын
No but we could make one.
@corentinmusique7 ай бұрын
I'd love to see that! It could also be a course on the site (on harmony in the 20th century, for example). I'd take it straight away! 😆
@corentinmusique7 ай бұрын
Apart from serialism, of course!
@MusicMattersGB7 ай бұрын
@corentinmusique Okay
@MusicMattersGB7 ай бұрын
@corentinmusique Ha ha. On that subject we do have a course!
@Snitsie2 жыл бұрын
I thought it was a video about limited transportation and that it was somehow named after Messi.
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
Not quite!
@harisbjofficial34982 жыл бұрын
Thank's...i like
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
A pleasure. Much more at www.mmcourses.co.uk including details of our online courses and of our exciting Maestros programme. If you value this channel and would like to help us continue to share and develop the content please consider supporting us as a level 1 Maestro by clicking here kzfaq.info/love/8yI8P7Zi3yYTsypera-IQgjoin Alternatively you can express your support for the channel by clicking on the Super Thanks button beneath any of our videos. Thank you.
@willemkossen2 жыл бұрын
What i struggle with is the applicability. Even Messiaen himself didnt use all of them much, mostly the second. Its one thing to do math on the distribution of notes in the chromatic scale, but to create beauty with the result is a different matter entirely. Maybe you could show by example how to use them. Without that, its just quirky theory….
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
Sure. That could be another video. He does create wonderful music with these modes. Well worth a listen.
@heartsquaremusic2953 Жыл бұрын
Alan Holdsworth
@MusicMattersGB Жыл бұрын
😀
@scronchman014610 ай бұрын
The point of the limited transpositions is that once you transpose it is very audible. This produces a sense of "progression" without there being any functional harmonic progression as we'd recognize it. So it is actually based in the ear and how we hear the music, not theorizing for the sake of theorizing.
@MusicMattersGB10 ай бұрын
@scronchman0146 Absolutely
@evelyneduval64412 жыл бұрын
Interesting! It must be very challenging to analyse a piece of Messiaen! Did he use different modes in a same piece?
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
Sure! Yes he does in some pieces.
@alessandropizzotti9322 жыл бұрын
As a mathematician I cannot agree with the choice of the adjective "limited" in this context. It's misleading, as traditional modes don't have unlimited transpositions either, so I think "reduced" would have been a better choice for Messiaen.
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
Limited in the very mathematical sense that there are only so many possible transpositions.
@alessandropizzotti9322 жыл бұрын
@@MusicMattersGB Which is true for traditional modes too. They also have a limited amount of transpositions, so traditional modes are also "modes of limited transposition", in a strictly mathematical sense. Messiaen's modes just have fewer.
@MusicMattersGB2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely
@lyntedrockley7295 Жыл бұрын
@@alessandropizzotti932 no, regular modes and scales have the maximum number, 12 of possible transpositions. These, by comparison are limited. You are being unecessarily pendantic.
@MusicMattersGB Жыл бұрын
😀
@d.l.loonabide9981 Жыл бұрын
Hi, are you from the south?
@MusicMattersGB Жыл бұрын
I was born in London and lived in the south but I’ve been in the north for over 40 years.
@d.l.loonabide9981 Жыл бұрын
@@MusicMattersGB Is yours considered a "posh accent"? Some of your pronunciation sounds Frippish.
@MusicMattersGB Жыл бұрын
Not particularly posh!
@Daleleproductions2 жыл бұрын
Completely off topic but I've just noticed an uncanny resemblance between you and Richard Dawkins