When I see someone purposefully mislabel a card, I refuse to bid on it even if it’s a card I want.

Nobody on earth loves SSPs the way this channel loves SSPs 😂

Great show guys. If warren spahn came back from the dead and Chris and jeff will appreciate this being a Braves and Milwaukee fan and split him into halves he would easily make the hall of fame today with pitching standards of the Last 7 or 8 yrs. Fight Fight fight. Thanks fellas

The problem as stated is that the answer everyone gives starts with "I Think", because there is no actual definition or consensus. We may even need to make Sport Specific definitions, and I think that would be fine. I think it is more important for them to be defined than anything else. It should be easy enough for a newbie to understand without having to give a 5 hour dissertation about the differences year to year and set to set. For Baseball: If an SP is only an Image Variation of a Base card, fine. If an SP is any non-numbered Image Variation, Parallel, or Insert with a print run below a Designated #, and SSP being the same but with a lesser Designated #, fine. Non-numbered is the only thing I say 100%. P.S. Love all your Shows/Channels. I learn about so many sets and cards that I missed while I was out chasing women in my 20's.

Hey guys great conversation as always. Just wanted to drop my two cents. I think many collectors get easily confused with semantics. Let’s also remember that two differing opinions/interpretations can be somewhat true or accepted at the same time as well. Here is my opinion, Short prints or Super short prints are exactly what they state. Compared to the normal print run these particular cards are printed less than the average base set. It could literally be by 1 less card or by many many multiples. Unless the manufacturer tells us the print runs exactly, or exclusivity (Case hit, etc.) we can only intelligently speculate/quantify as Scott sometimes does in prior videos. I think that the debate that you guys feature here is not one of what should or should not be called a short print but instead the hobby’s intermixing /confusing of the term short print and rarity. A short printed or even possibly a Super Short printed card may not in fact be rare at all. So I think the question shouldn’t be what is the definition of a SP or SSP but instead what is considered rare?

The problem is SP and SSP are relative terms. There is no way "Short print" can have a specific definition. There is no quantifiable definition, only in relation to something else. That's why better terms for cards are things like "Case Hit" or "Box Hit". I hope at some point the hobby can even somehow bring in the number of cases into play, and for rare cards that only appear say in every 10 cases, we start calling those "10 Case Hits" or something that can be directly understood by all collectors

SP's and SSP's have been around a lot longer than image variations. Image variations are simply one type of card that qualifies as an SP or SSP.

My personal opinion is that SSP aren’t that rare when u look at the PSA 10 pop counts. If you love them collect them. But from an investment standpoint I don’t see them being worth anything in future. I personally don’t feel safe holding anything with a pop count higher than 10 in a PSA 10.

Got to give you guys credit for the thumbnails, they are great

I think Chris is right in as far as a strict definition. Plus I like his I’m right attitude and stick-to-it-ism. Every is entitled to an opinion but some opinions are right and some are wrong. But yes it’s a term used vaguely to mainly portray rarity. PS: Great show fellas

SP and SSP in my eyes are a card that has a same number from “base set” with a different image that is know to be shorter printed. A case hit (insert or other parallel maybe ) is a case hit or limited serial number run 😌 I suppose we can refer to it as an SSP , yet if it is not an image variant from base card , then I believe it is a misnomer and misuse of the sp and SSP nomenclature and designation. Nothing is wrong with being exited about an rare /5 red refractor auto ! And that is a hell of a card,,,, but it’s not an sp or SSP 😅 One is not better than the other . That being said ,,, I love the rare images of sp and SSP vs parallel of base card .

T-Pott didn't know what it meant to be left on read because it's never happened to him before.

One thing i noticed in the hobby is across all sports.."on card autos" are king...Football and basketball are way more forgiving on "sticker autos" especially football...baseball collectors hate on-card autos..

There are football and basketball image variations that are more valuable/popular than the base like 2012 prizm towel up and towel down Russell Wilson and the 2019 prizm basketball ja and Zion image variations.

Omg I totally messed this up. I thought if you buy it on the first Thursday of the month, then it’s a SSP

Coming from the baseball market, I was super confused a few years back when I was searching for Prizm Jameis Winston cards and his SP image variations were selling for the same as his base rookie cards. I really like the SPs $ SSPs, but they require explaining to people that are newer to the baseball market. I think that will always artificially keep the prices lower than they should be. And bowman doesn’t do SPs justice on 1st bowman cards when they don’t put the 1st emblem on the image variations. I’ll never understand why they don’t include it. Really hurts the value of those rare cards

A good way to show where topps come from on this subject is with heritage. High numbers from heritage are referred to as SP’s. And the image variations are referred to image variations. Heritage is a great example bc it’s one of the longest running sets with numbered cards, variations etc.

Hey Mr. Outdated here! First time I heard the term "SP", I just knew for sure it was referring to Upper Deck SP cards.

I do believe Scott hit the nail on the head when he said the term has evolved. Upper Deck used to release print runs for autograph and memorabilia sets after production. Collectors usually didn’t know if they had an SP until the next Beckett came out, but there were plenty of SP’s that were the only version of that particular player in a set (didn’t have to be and rarely were image variations). But I believe what it has evolved in to is exactly what Chris is describing. Once the image variations started, SP and SSP took on a whole new meaning. And serial numbered cards are self explanatory, no extra description needed. What’s a 1/1? An SSSSSP Ultra Uber Plus?

Well done 👍

If we think about this though, image variations only carry heavy weight in flagship baseball. Topps series, chrome, stadium club. Even in Bowman, image variations way undersell the base variations. I can get a Wyatt Langford variation auto /99 for 500-600 but a base PSA 10 is 500. In rarely any other product does variations carry weight outside of the main Topps flagship products. Even the new Topps chrome sparkle variations aren’t as coveted as the base.

Just listening to you all tells everyone how indefinable each of us think about the subject. Were you all SP or SSP or SSSP on the topic? Depends on the person who wants it make the choice of what it is and willing to pay

Chris perfectly stated how the idiot eBay card listings as ssp when there serial numbered parallels,investment,and other players hash tagged😂

I think SP goes along with the product it’s pulled from. For example heritage black borders. Black and white and throwbacks. All non numbered. Throwbacks would be SSP bc the print run is usually 15 cards. (2024 was 30 cards). Black borders is /50 and black and white is a few hundred. Heritage is highly printed so a card with a print run of 200 or less are short printed and super short printed. Image variations are a set. Image variations are short printed making them labeled “image variation short print” then there’s super short print image variation etc etc.

How about an episode on what is or is not a RC? Back in day we had “XRC” which seems to be ignored now. PSA registry sets will not include Tiffany cards for example which I disagree with… an ‘86 Topps Traded Bonds is basically considered a RC but PSA doesn’t.

Chris, Your Ronald Acuna Jr SSP of Acuna Jr celebrating his 40/70 is a Topps now card! Not sure it’s actually a SSP card. Lol.

It really has changed since the inception but this is what I always used Sp- a card or variation of a card that has a shorter print run than the normal base set print run. ( think Jeter with Bush in the background). Typically associated with topps. Ssp- above only an even smaller print run then Sps. Since the original print runs aren't made public, the number associated with either sp or ssp isn't known or identifiable. The exact opposite ruling would apply to DP ( double print) or even TP ( triple print). With many of these terms being used with these definitions since the 1950s.

Great topic. Albeit a confusing one. The question that came to mind is: is the confusion surrounding shorter prints a significant constraint (or one of a series of significant constraints/frustrations) for newer people entering the industry? It seems to a company like Fanatics that this could be a potential overhang on future profitability in the space? Thoughts?

What are your thoughts on if SSP's were numbered? For example, say a particular card is a SSP. Only 15-20 copies in existence. Does it take away from the card itself if there is actual numbering /15-/20? Does that take away from the rarity in your eyes if it is numbered, or does that help to solidify the scarcity of it?

Thoughts on heritage high number sp’s? Not the image variations but the standard base cards that are designated as sp?

In general, what's the best way to figure out the print run of an SP/SSP. How do we know how rare these really are? Thanks.

Wait... starting @3:52, Ty begins his statement that in football and basketball card circles SSP is used to refer to cards with a print run of 25 or less... he then gives examples; color blasts, downtowns, and kabooms... My question is, do people believe the print of these cards (in any year) is below 25? They seem to pop up in youtube videos and online marketplaces much too often for only 25 copies to exist... But hey, I'm willing to accept my perceptions may be wrong in light of evidence. Thanks for the content, guys!

“Royale with cheese” conversation. Truly! 🤣 SSP is a noun in baseball 🤷🏻‍♂️

I think T pot was confused because it is “left you on read”, the past tense of read 📖, the (red)read vs the (reed)read. Meaning the person has read the message and not responded 😅😅😅

Also the 90's insanity had the term DP for double printed, just to make us feel like we really wasted out time buying packs

No, SP (as in short-print) was not a known term long ago. And no, the 1952 Topps Mantle was not short-printed. If any vintage cards are short in supply, its because they were thrown out by the masses and/or destroyed. The folklore behind the 1952 Topps is that the cases they couldnt sell were dumped into the ocean. Im still skeptical those events even happened. As for the Honus Wagner T206, it was pulled from production. So no, none of these were ever intended to be short-printed. Im a firm believer that a ton more of those 1952 Topps Mickey Mantles exist in ungraded condition. Think of all the older collections that have yet to surface. We'll be seeing alot more of those Mantles.

To me, it felt like the eephus IG post came in direct response to people taking liberties on the July 4th #sspthursday to include Independence Day parallels numbered out of 76. Could be wrong, but the post and several replies felt very protective of the "SSP" term for strictly baseball image variations. Would be great if fully accepted definitions could be adopted ... good discussion.

I only collect team sets of all years of a few topps brands. My feeling is no parallel or an insert is ever a sp or ssp. A short print has to be the same card number as the base card and not the same photo or another gimmick utilized. Weather it is a sp or ssp is how hard it is to find and the market price especially when product is first released.

Do you guys consider the 1990 Topps George Bush a SSP? Only a few were thrown into the overall production. They are super super rare.

SSP to me is a useless term to me until they are serial numbered. It's an overused term that only inflates artificial scarcity. I like Gold Foil for one example and they are estimated to be 600 each of but they're also not numbered but who knows. And we don't need the ESPYs anymore. The SP awards would be better. Btw the 52 Mantle was double printed but Topps dumped a bunch of them years later into an ocean allegedly thus creating far less copies overall.

This is confusing. Words have meaning. Anything printed at a rate less than the highest base card run is shorter printed than the base. That’s not satisfying though, so rather than coming up with a new concept that matches the reality of what’s being described, we’re trying to change what words like “short” and “print” mean. Chris likes image variations that, as another attribute, are also shorter printed. Here’s a thought - come up with a new word, a fun silly marketing word, that has no actual meaning - and then define it. Chris, your pledge name is no longer SSP Pinto, it’s UltraSnap. Now go and define exactly what UltraSnap means, and get that circulating for adoption. Boom - a new word and a new definition that can be as precise as you want.

Did you say what your counts for SSPs/SPs are measured against? Less than X [number] across the millions of cards produced overall? In a case? What’s the denominator?

For Topps chrome the let's go are ssp and radiating rookies are sp aren't they?

Don't let this distract you from the real menace: the guy that calls jersey cards "patches"

What up guys

Si

its left on read(pronouced red) like it was already read by the receiver of the message. left on read(reed) holy shit haha

I would think for Topps flagship that there SP or SSP should have been more creative.

I hit a Hidden Gems the other day and assume they are an SSP

They should use SSPP on ssp parallels.?.?.?

If there ever was a governing body in the card market who could it be good or bad that wouldn't profit from that job that has a clue what there doing.

Okokok so anything less than 100 is ssp. Simple whether numbered or not

Those aren't baseball cards u can call them whatever u want lol 😆

….. Ty, please STOP calling for some form of “regulations”. The LAST thing the hobby / industry needs is the GOVERNMENT (🙄) stepping in. IF YOU HAVEN’T NOTICE, they can’t regulate THEMSELVES, let alone others 🍻