Very thorough test I like it

When I first bought my Savage Axis 308, before I received my die set so I could load my own, I bought some Winchester copper extreme point and I was getting 1 moa with them. When I started loading my own, with Nosler Accubond 150 grain I got as little as 3/8 inch groups. I also got great groups with Spear hot core, and Hornady SST bullets, loading my own of course.

Good video. Thanks for sharing.

I have had very good luck with the Hornady Superperformance GMX tips in 130g w/.270 Weatherby Vanguard. I was surprised with their effectiveness on elk as I had used much heavier lead bullets in the past. Great channel.

I think your channel is doing a great job. I think by staying to a topic or area will bring more subscribers. Possibly in the future having a solid barrel without fluting will allow better results possibly (maybe even test this)

Definitely some preformed better than others, but think they would all get the job done. Thanks for the review, be well guys.

I’ve shot and hunted with the Federal Premium Trophy Copper 150 grain in .308. Under moa. Problem is I couldn’t find them for the last few years so I’m shooting Terminal Ascent. The Trophy Copper is a Nosler bullet similar to the E tip. Great round.

You are rocking the 308. Take Care.

In three seperate 308 Win rifles that I own, the Barnes 130 gr TTSX has been the most accurate bullet of any type to pass down their bores. Performance on game has been outstanding and I've yet to recover a single one. I've only used them on whitetail but wouldn't hesitate to take hogs or cow elk with them out to 300 yds.

Great job thx!

Sometimes monolithic bullets do not shoot well in a barrel that been fouled with conventional lead core bullets, because the lead core jackets are gilding metal, not pure copper. It will actually cause the pure copper to strip off the bullets. Clean the barrels completely down to bare steel before each style, fire some fouling shots, then shoot for groups. Not going to say that they will group MOA, but it may help them group more consistently.

My 308 will NOT group under 2-3" with any 150 grain bullet I've tried. However it will .5-.75 with some 165s and 180s. That may be the case with this particular rifle as well. Thanks for the vide. Hello from Mississippi.

If your taking a rifle that shot standard lead / cup and core bullets and are now switching to monolithic bullets, you need to clean the bore thoroughly. If you do not, you will not get good results. Also, monolithic bullets like speed. Go lighter for caliber if you want good results. Best monolithic bullets I have ever shot are Hammer Hunter Bullets. There are custom ammo reloaders starting to load factory ammo using Hammer Hunters, but if you reload.....it would be way cheaper. Great terminal performance and the most accurate hunting bullet I have loaded for in the monolithic line.

From the research I’ve done you go down in weight for copper. Plus the barrel needs a tighter twist for the heavier copper. So for Barnes I’d go 130 or 150 max.

You have great videos and reviews putting you into my top 3 gun channels. I really like your consistency and easy to watch videos. With that said, a group is all of the shots and it doesn’t matter that one hit the bullseye, two were in the same hole or a group is really tight if you throw out one of the shots. You can’t pick which of those hits you’re going to have when you are shooting at something you want to hit. When I’m trying to find a load that works, if I get a scattergun looking group with 3 shots, I probably won’t shoot the 4th and 5th. I’ll pull the bullets and try something else. I have one cast bullet that was so poor with everything I tried in my 450 Bushmaster (CVA Cascade), I pulled what I had left over and recast everything I had cast. They weren’t worth wasting any components! Of course I know you’re shooting factory rounds but I wouldn’t waste them either if the 3 shots were scattered more than 2 inches. I’m still working on a load in 308 (CVA Cascade) with an NOE 225gr powdered coated cast bullet. I’m struggling…. I also tried some in my 300WSM (Browning A-Bolt) and it’s showing much more promise than the 308. Hoping to kill some whitetail this fall with a cast bullet and the 300 is first on my list as of right now.

great info, thanks a lot. i got into the monolithic copper bullets last week because hunting in germany with lead is prohibited. the first ones i tried was Geco Star, 165 grain. i am not sure if these are sold in the US though... the very first 3 shots grouped sub moa out of my tikka CTR,- done. the hunting starts at the beginning of may, then i will see how the performance is going to turn out on deer, like stopping power and for me most importantly the meat damage.

I'm a canadain and started hand loading about 10yrs ago. I've found barnes bullets by far the easiest to exceptional accuracy with. All 3 wsm calibers I load for are well under 100yrd MOA . Was able to achieve this with just powder charge , all being 1-2 grains below max charge off the barnes website , I also find their preformance on game to be exceptional . I'll give barnes bullets TTSX and LRX a five star rating

I was hoping you’d see great results with the Barnes TTSX. I tried them in my .308 match barreled AR and have been extremely happy with how they shoot. I’ve always been satisfied shooting the deadliest mushroom in the woods and didn’t see a need to spend more money on ammo but those TTSX rounds are just more accurate. Only thing is to make sure that you are keeping your shots within their power band ( speed at distance ) or they won’t expand as well as the old lead bullets do

I'm curious about the twist tates of your different test rifles

Both the Barnes and the Hornadys suffer from seperation at closer ranges. The one glaring omission from your list is the Nosler AccuBond, which is considered the best on the market. You should try them sometime.

I have the best luck with Barnes. Both rifles are under a 1 inch group. Very effective on game, and dont do major damage like ive seen with certain soft points.

Years ago when I first learned about Barnes bullets the convention then was to shoot one to two weights lower than your normal lead core loads. Ie. 130 grain instead of 150 grain. in a .308, 80 or 85 grain for a .243 if you normally shoot 100 grain led cores because the increase in velocity helps stabilize the bullet better. In my experience that seems to be the ticket for accuracy.

I really like the Nosler E-tips in 168 grain in my 308. They work great for me

Sometimes when changing to copper bullets you may need to clean the bore good, After shooting lead core bullets to get good groups.

Have you tried the Nosler e-tip 150gr ?

I shoot the Barnes 180 gr. TTSX in a Tikka T3x .308 using Federal brass and Ramshot TAC powder and consistently get sub-MOA groups at 100 yds. Most groups are better than 0.6 in. and I used that load last year to cleanly take wildebeest, impala, zebra, blesbok and kudu in Africa, most falling to a single shot. But bullet seating depth was the key to that load. Initial groups were over 1.5 in. but tightened markedly as overall cartridge length decreased. The Barnes load manual describes the process for matching proper bullet seating depth to your rifle and it definitely worked for me. Varying the bullet depth on the ammunition you used might well produce better and more consistent groups.

After watching this and other .308 load comparisons, I think I will stick to my Rem green box 150 PSP factory load that I started with years ago! My first two shots group in one inch then as the thin 22 inch barrel heats up, the shots walk to the right. You have busted my copper bullet ambitions!

When I shoot like that I wear elbow pads. They work better for me than always adjusting a mat or pad. Something less to worry about. When I shoot prone I use knee pads. Keeps little stones & sticks from digging in. PS I enjoy your videos & coments. You shoot very well.

Cutting Edge Raptors 135gr shoots really well out of my Browning BLR(lever) I consistently get a hair under an inch without experimenting with different powder charges.(Varget 47 grs)

Was trying the 130Gr. CX yesterday and though I could only get the group down to .6MOA on the initial attempts I stopped when I recovered one from the berm. Expansion on the 130Gr CX @ 2900 muzzle velocity was terrible - The bullet lacked expansion. Even at 100 yards hitting a dirt berm expansion stopped almost 1/4 inch before the top relief cut on it. I used a hot compressed load of superformance powder to push up to 2900 FPS and could not get this thing to expand. Sub 3K muzzle velocity and these CX does not expand enough to not pencil through your deer, though Hornady claims expansion down to 2k FPS my personal results show otherwise. Next attempt will be with the Barnes LRX - being a long range bullet I hope it can expand better than the CX at lower velocities, though it just may be that a 20 inch barrel 6.5 creed doesn't have the juice needed to expand the solids. That's my 2 bits anyways. Thanks for the Video!

I would have been interested to know the velocities, most of those claim to be faster than standard bullets.

This isn't hidden criticism but are you cleaning the gun at all during these or the other 308 test. I'm just wondering if powder fouling or copper fouling is effecting things at all

I would suggest bedding the action on your rifle. Should tighten up your groups at any bullet weight. You also seem to have a pretty drastic cold bore shift from your first group shots 1 and 2. It's worth it to play with your action screw torque values to see if that cold bore shift tightens up

I load a Nosler 150gr. Expansion tip in 30-06 it shoots sub moa and is absolutely devastating on mule deer and feral hogs. I load it for my brother and nephew as well.

I've got four .308's. My two favs are my M-14 and my Savage MSR. I usually deer hunt with the Savage because of the lighter weight. Barnes does well in all of my .308's. I too tried Sig just in the 14 and the MSR. My groups were worse than yours. Not that yours were bad. But you know I mean. hmmmm Another bullet my M-14 LOVES is a reloaded Tipped Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. Great vid y'all. And thanks.

Barnes 130gr 308win less than half inch @100 win mod70 22" barrel with 1-12 twist. Chronograph 3128 fps.This is a very picky rifle,so I was really impressed with accuracy & velocity. Ordered 4more boxes. Thanks for another great review!

Maker bullets is very accurate. I shoot the 425 subs and 250 gn for 450 bm both are sub moa with handloads. They do have loaded ammo now, and black butterfly uses maker bullets, at least last time i checked.

I usually shoot under .3" groups with the Barnes 168 gr TSX Tipped. I'm shooting them in a Remington SPS Tactical .308 with an AAC 1 in 10 twist barrel. This gun will shoot sub MOA with bullets down to 150, but it doesn't like anything weighing less than that.

I’m about to start experimenting with Monolithic Copper Projectiles in my 200 Win Mag. Trying the Australian made Atomic 29 in 175 grain. Should be interesting, if nothing else…

I use Barnes For-Tex5 168 copper loads out of my Savage 99 .308 and get sub moa at 100 yards. My son uses Federal Copper Trophy 150 grain out of his .308 Tikka T3 with the same results. I've found for copper the heavier the bullet the better the results in my Savage 99 and the Tikka T3.

I'm running the barnes 130gr ttsx in my sig cross and it shoots 1 hole...ish groups at 100yds if I do my part. By far the most accurate ones I've found yet

Have you ever tried PMC 308 , 147gr bullets? There $19 a box cheep I use them for the brass. When I tried them in my Savage heavy barel 308 they shot extreamly well. I dident think my twist would like the shorter lighter bullets. Go figger.

Per recent videos by Back Fire and Ron Spoomer. Did you clean the bore since shooting lead core bullets prior? Not cleaning lead copper fowling will dramatically increase group size

What is the barrel twist on your cascade?

Barnes ttsx 130 gr are my favorite.

Try cleaning your gun back to bare metal and then try the copper bullets. Supposedly you have to clean back to bare metal before shooting the copper bullets are the lead that's been left in the barrel will/can cause accuracy issues.

Also you have to keep in mind that copper is less dense than lead. So when you're shooting copper rounds g, use the lower weight bullets because they're shorter and will stabilize better in a factory barrel. Weight doesn't determine the twist rate in the barrels, length does, with respect to diameter of course. So 150 grain lead is already near max stabilization on a factory barrel. You should shoot lower weight copper which is shorter and it will stabilize better.

Try hammer bullets 124gr for your 308. It will love them

I shoot federal premium loaded with 165 grain barnes vortex bullets and have three shot groups at a hundred with all three holes touching. Have 2 other friends with same results. Maybe give them a try.

308 165gr Hornady superformance good on my ruger American left hand

150gr Hornady International ECX best for my 7x64 so far. Shoots 1/2 MOA. Anything lighter than 150 gr spreads 2-3 MOA. 🤷‍♂️ Not much choice of 150gr and heavier because of the lighter copper bullets.

Guess I'm not seeing that 2nd target 🎯 No worries, I'm old and blind and it almost 3am. I'd be on a 590 & flite control ammo anyway

I’ve had plenty of success with copper bullet handloads. Shooting a cheap savage axis II in 308. Barnes 130gr with 48.5gr Varget consistently between 0.4-0.7 in groups. 137gr Hammer Hunter with 46.2gr Varget performs the same. Several loads with Ramshot TAC in other Hammer bullets produce 0.9-1.2in groups, which is similar to leads loads with that powder with that rifle. Only lead handload I’ve tried with Varget was a single load with 155gr ELDM and it was like 0.78, so with more development finding a similar window of consistent 0.4-0.7 is likely. I bring this up because I don’t want people to think copper bullets are just less accurate than lead. It’s just easier to handload since factory is so expensive and there are so few offerings, especially at sub-150gr. With copper, you’re generally better off running in the 120-140gr range for deer.

Wow! I would send it back for accuracy issues.

We Californians have been forced to use copper for a long time now. I’ve messed with, shot and loaded just about everything and nothing else is as good as Barnes, either loaded ammo or bullets and that’s in a bunch of different cartridges I’ve tried.

2/3-308W ARs, one will eat a 147/149gr all day, but the other will not eat the same load. The one 308W, I then changed to the 168gr, and it will eat this load.

130 ttsx shoots .5 with my 308 Mauser. Kills like lightning

Not sure if anybody ever looked into that, but could it be copper monos are more sensitive to fouled barrels? The material is way harder.

My sauer likes black hills gold 168 gr barnes tsx

What is your twist rate? Copper bullets require a minimum of 1:9 twist rate according to many manufacturers. Most hunting rifles are 1:10 -1:12 twist rate.

I wish you would show velocity’s

I'm running Barnes Vortex 168gr TTSX BT through my Savage 110 Scout. I'm getting under an inch at 100y from a bipod.

Beautiful demonstration honey I your work shared😳👍

Barnes Bullets all day baby! I told you!

I wish you had given more information on both the gun and the ammo. As long as you're doing an accuracy test, it is pretty useless to compare and make use of the results without knowing the barrel length and twist rate, the bullet weights (it's on the box for crying out loud).

PS - If you can't get good/consistent groups with monolithic bullets in a gun that's previously fired cup & core bullets, thoroughly clean the barrel. This most likely will resolve the problem (don't take my word for it: confirmed by both Ron Spomer & Jim Harmer kzfaq.info/get/bejne/i7KGftmllrOnoJs.html&pp=ygULYmFja2ZpcmUgdHY%3D) To be clear, the rifle doesn't have to be cleaned every time it's shot...just need to get the lead and gilding metal out at the get0go.

You're not getting consistent groups because you don't understand the dynamic difference between copper and lead projectiles. In your defense bullet manufacturers are not offering suitable ammo for your rifle because few people do understand and that would effect sales. A clean barrel (down to steel) "is" critical and then cleaning it again after any lead bullets are run through the barrel. where they seat the bullet (to the top groove) is probably the best depth for the most rifles so short of rolling your own that's a good compromise. Here's the critical thing to understand: A comparable bullet in copper for the one you are shooting now is not the same "weight" as your current bullet but the same "size" bullet and just going down a weight or 2 won't get you there. We always thought that you needed faster rifling to stabilize a heavier bullet, when all we shot was lead that was good enough but in actuality it was the length of the bullet that was critical. (to be more precise it was the length of the bullet subject to obduration of the lands to take into account the sexy ogives of the VLD type bullets) Arrange to run a 110 gr. bullet down your bore and see what happens. While you're at it have whoever assembles the loads run them fast and see how you feel about your drop in trajectory being cut in 1/2. We have seen the future and it is bright, the sooner influencers online and elsewhere can understand, then relate to the ammo buying public the sooner ammo manufacturers can market the very best combinations and we will all be better for it.

Pattern Test? Shotguns shoot patterns. Rifles shoot groups.

It's definitely not the bullets it's the shooter you're pulling

It turns out that shooting copper bullets in a gun that has previously shot lead core bullets can affect the accuracy and the barrel needs to be cleaned before switching. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/i7KGftmllrOnoJs.htmlsi=bVv4cvG_K_HcTI9F

That is a pretty far shot to test a group just my opinion id like to see a test alittle closer

Clearly the bullets are so hard they are not making good barrel contact resulting in poor gyroscopic performance. Hence inconsistant result..

Since 1978 as a single income, I have guided clients from all over the world on hunts for Pacific NW Roosevelt Elk - Black Tail deer and in Alaska for Dall sheep - Mountain goats - Yukon Moose - Interiors Grizzly and coastal Brown bears. I have used the barns x bullets longer than I can remember the years and now myself and the clients are required to bring Barns loaded ammo with TSX - TTSX - LRX bullets and not less than a 338 win mag or what I have been using a 9.3x62 Mauser - after near death experiences caused by ignorant East coast deer hunters who brings a 30-06 deer gun with Federal 150 grain deer ammo I set a rule and if the client can't fallow that rule then better go find another guide. One near death experience from charged by a 1500 Yukon Bull moose that nearly killed me and cause me 1 1/2 year of recovery from injury's caused me to set the hard rules that must be fallowed to the T. Alaska isn't just hunting what many think are stupid Moose these Moose are in rut and their meanness is ready to attack anyone and anything thing when you get then stirred up using calls. Then the area of guiding operations has a state estimate of 300 brown bears per miles and black bears even more who become belligerent & threatening to come into camp over food smells or you have a moose down. My new Alaskan guide rifle is now an AR 10 in a reloader cartridge 375 - 300 WSM so I have 9 cartridges in a 20-round magazine and the same power as a 375 H&H magnum in the AR 10 so there is no hand movement to work the bolt for a new round to be chambered making fallow up shots just like fallowing and shoot birds with a shotgun.

My Rem 700 really likes Barnes 168 g ttsx BT. 3/8in grouping at 100 yrds