What decade did Mercedes Benz engineering peak?

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What decade did Mercedes Benz engineering peak?

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Mercedes Classics with Pierre Hedary

Ай бұрын

There are a variety of classic Mercedes Benz cars still on the road today, ranging from the iconic 300 SL Gullwing Coupe to the luxurious W126 S-Class. Many of these cars are lovingly maintained by their owners, and they can be seen driving around town or at car shows. These vehicles are a testament to Mercedes Benz's dedication to producing timeless and reliable automobiles.
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Пікірлер: 61

@KenYamaguchi-sg5zr Ай бұрын

You're a man worth heeding because you have the trifecta: knowledge, experience and wisdom. Thank you.

@verdict1163 Ай бұрын

I feel like the W123 (and R107, W116) is the sweet spot. More sophisticated engineering and refinement than the W114/W115 that came before, yet more robustly built than the W124 that came after. W124 are still well built but a lot more things clip into place rather than screw in, window regulators are wimpier, etc. A proxy for quality is the presence of grease fittings on the door hinges. W123 was the last mid size to have them, W126 was the last S-class.

@LeonardHeussComposer Ай бұрын

Always very informative :) Thanks for keeping us educated Pierre.

@paulvandermeer9238 Ай бұрын

every peak has it's valley's... you gotta love that expression.. thx Pierre, kindest regards from the Netherlands

@skipparker3182 14 күн бұрын

this 1985 300TDT owner concurs! "Lucky" Pierre has saved my bacon more than once. BRAVO

@Moital1 Ай бұрын

1980’s W126 and W123’s were in my opinion the respective intersections where engineering and quality peaked. This specially regards to euro models from ‘81 to 85. Kudos to the Euro ‘81 300d with the best injection pump and beefier transmission in the series.

@jonstangerjazz9188 Ай бұрын

The 280 SE 4.5 was an UNBELIEVABLE car. I owned one (daily driver) in the mid 1980's. My 4.5 had every conceivable option available at the time and was a pleasure to drive. Parts were readily available (across several platforms) and there was a plethora of qualified service technicians who didn't subscribe to the plug and play mentality of today. As Pierre indicates you HAD to service your vehicle diligently but these machines were true works of art. Today, money aside, you simply cannot drive these vehicles every day due to the scarcity of replacement parts and qualified labor. The 4.5 had the horsepower and torque to comfortably accelerate onto today's freeways and cruise at 80-100 MPH, if needed. The style is truly old-school.

@pasokhbeiran Ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing your passion and knowledge and experience, and btw brother you don't look as always pumped and energetic I hope to see you well and happy, best wishes from Iran

@CrucialSpeaks Ай бұрын

90's / 2000's. m112, m113 years & also w124 years

@renierdutoit1 Ай бұрын

W115, W123, W126 and W201. My take. Great work Pierre👍👍👍

@ronalddean3630 17 күн бұрын

Excellent! Thank you.

@paulskopic5844 Ай бұрын

Excellent and very helpful information.

@TheLuisg92 Ай бұрын

To me, Mercedes Benz has peaked a few times: 1. In the late 30s with the 540K - Not only an engineering feat, but a sublime work of art. 2. 1954 with the 300SL - A true race car for the road with striking performance and looks that was immediately elevated to legend status. 3. 1963/4 with the introduction on the mighty 600, which I considered the highest peak of them all considering they threw everything they had at that project regardless of cost. Still an impressive machine that can only owned a few fortunate ones. 4. 1993 with the introduction of the W140, especially once they brought the 600SEL. Possibly the very last of the real Mercedes before the Chrysler fiasco. 5. And finally in 2005 with the W221 - A return to form and the last true tour de force S-Class with its powerful diesel V8s, Command system, voice recognition, night vision, wild AMG versions and timeless design.

@TomK-ti8kp Ай бұрын

1986-1993. That’s when they figured out rubber and plastic, but retained the metal quality they were known for in the 70s. Things got bad after 1995. Mercedes is okay now but not amazing

@coketey3372 Ай бұрын

what did they figure out about rubber and plastic?

@TomK-ti8kp Ай бұрын

@@coketey3372 at least I’ve noticed 1986+ cars have fuel hoses that are much more resistant to ethanol, UV, heat and other harsh conditions. And the plastic radiator necks are much less failure prone on the later 80s cars.

@oldmercedesdiesel Ай бұрын

I believe the 70's was the peak engineering decade for Mercedes, if I compare to the other cars available at the time. Whether it be gas engines or diesel, the mercedes engines designed and introduced in this decade where built to last as long as you maintained them. The w116 introduced the om617 with the first diesel turbo production car for the 79 year, with antilock brakes available as well. When most of the other manufacturers weren't innovating but just lowering compression, drastically cutting power, and adding smog devices, Mercedes had sedans with the 6.9L or 4.5L you could purchase that had great power for the time and handled like a sports car of the time. I believe it was you in a previous video that said that the version of transmission (722.1) and om617.950 diesel engine put into the w116 was the best version they made of it. The 80's cars were great, but not built quite as tank-like in my opinion. I still see a lot of 70's w123's around here, but almost never see a w124 or w201 driving around anymore. And many of the 90's cars were over-engineered with many cars having constant problems I could go on and on about, when there were cars from Lexus and other manufacturers introduced that decade that were much more reliable. I have a 79 w116 300sd, and have owned many benzes from the 80's and 90's. After I purchased my w116 years ago, I quickly realized that it was the best and have stuck with it as my driver sedan. As long as I do regular maintenance on it, which really isn't difficult, I know I can drive it anywhere. I could never have the same feeling from a w140 of the 90's.

@jaye909 Ай бұрын

Pierre, I've been watching for over 5 years and find it notable that your attitude towards cars such as the W210, W202, and even the W140 is changing. I notice you mentioning and discussing them more than you used to and that you've been warming up to them. I too prefer the older stuff, but realize there will be a place for these newer cars to earn the title of classic Mercedes they become more scarce.

@MJR67 Ай бұрын

Many thanks Pierre for your insights. I would say that as complications be it smog, safety related increased ,dependability went down as sensors, integrated circuits etc break with time and become hard to neigh impossible for a shade tree mechanic to fix. The same applies to increased use of plastic, over time it does hard and brittle. O rings start to leak, vacuum lines break, mounts disintegrate and the list goes on. None of this means that the car were inherently poorly made but cars ( ex very high end) in Europe in the 1970’s all the way up to the 1990’s did not have AC, electric windows, parking sensors, this made it easier to fix, especially if one looks at the amount of space in the engine bay vs cars today. I’ve owned a low mileage w126 500 sel. Great build quality, no issues but the interior creaked -the car was close to 40 years old- as all the plastic had hardened and after every journey you got the Vaseline out to find the spot which caused the creak in the hope that it would not creak the next time. I am now reconditioning an 1980 SLC, engine is strong as is transmission but every rubber bit has to be changed, vacuum actuators, suspension etc you get the drift. All doable, most parts are available but unless you can do it yourself the expense is so prohibitive which means people don’t bother unless it is a 300sl, 190sl, pagoda maybe a 6.3 or the 3.5 coupe or convertibles. And even if you want to pay a mechanic to send his kids through college , try finding one who is both willing and capable of working on these pre OBDI cars. I was always surprised that mechanics would turn me away when I came with my older cars. Once I started to work on them myself, I quickly understood why. Fix one thing and the next thing down the line goes and the customer thinks you did it on purpose to scam them. My 1984 500 was a great car, 1988 Sl 560 has been trouble free, 1980 SLC is a WIP, 2000 129 every plastic bit just breaks and falls off, engine and transmission fine rest forget, w140 1997 is the most solid car I’ve ever owned and I’ve owned many. As I say to people, many cars but 1 wife, some have many wives but 1 car. You pick😅. Thanks again Pierre for all your insights.

@alm4132 Ай бұрын

Agree on the later W210..... a rust free 2000 E320 4Matic lives in our garage and will not be sold, fabulous car.

@matsujarvinen Ай бұрын

I have W210 E200 -97,and it´s the most carefree MB I have owned,including W124 and W201.

@ericmartinez4505 Ай бұрын

Thanks for another great video .

@martinsvensson6884 Ай бұрын

You can include the gasoline 123 too. I would prefer them for any daily use. Quieter, smoother, more light footed, and considerably more power. And with the 200 manual my parents had from new until scraped, because of rust after around 30 years, there werent a s-i-n-g-l-e problem with that engine during its life time except a carburator membrane for like $20, in its late years. So why the diesel? A carburated 200 with 109hp and lighter.. vs 60hp in a diesel 200... I'm sure the diesels will go for even longer but you pay a price for it. And if you have to make a overhaul after 30 years of the gasoline engine I feel that would be worth it.

@petercollingwood522 Ай бұрын

I agree. Both I and my brother had mid80's 200's and looking backon them now I think they may have been the sweet spot of the 123. Along with the Diesels which we also had in the family. For long highway trips the gasoline car is nicer no doubt.

@ikaros4203 Ай бұрын

@@petercollingwood522 what no wayyyy, the diesels love cruising the highway, especially with the '85 differential or 5-speed manual and get much better mileage... Around town the diesel vibrations can get a bit old, where the gas would be more zippy/fun anyway.

@petercollingwood522 Ай бұрын

@@ikaros4203 I've owned and driven both for many years. I get the appreciation for the diesels but the fixation on those, especially in the US where few Gassers were ever sold has blinded people to the qualities of the gas cars. I repeat, for high speed long distance highway travel the gassers are better.

@martinsvensson6884 Ай бұрын

@@ikaros4203 Of course milage will be better with the diesels but the gasolines are much quieter on the highway.

@martinsvensson6884 Ай бұрын

@@petercollingwood522 Yes, but also the 230E... Virtually same weight but 136hp instead. Dont know if the fuel injection made them more complicated though. But they continued that engine too into the w124 and I never heard of any common complaints.

@12pagani Ай бұрын

I would absolutely say the early r129 and w140 was absolute peak of their quality and engineering before the bean counters came and ruined them. I do admit that in most regards the w124 is peak Mercedes, simple, timeless, 80s simplicity but 90s levels engineering and features that were not gimmicks. I love the w126 but it was supposed to have multi link rear suspension but it wasn’t ready in time, but it debuted in the w124 and 201 cars. They have the blend of technology and engineering and safety but without going to far into the other direction. No gimmicks, no engineering for the sake of solving a problem that didn’t exist, and grotesque styling and cheaper materials

@ftffighter 28 күн бұрын

Pierre has spoken :) although, I'm curious if the M112/M113 were older designs than we give them credit for? They were perhaps "modernized" but were they perhaps a rehash of an older design themselves? I don't know this stuff but love learning about the history!

@behrsgarage Ай бұрын

I had a w115 76 240D from '13 to '15 that I had purchased with the intent of only using it for a few months until I had a few pay stubs under my belt, and I ended up daily driving it for the next two years. The one thing that did it in for me, was the converted York A/C in the southwest desert. Was just too hot in there. Otherwise was a great car. A time after that, I bought a silver 81 300SD that felt literally "modern" in comparison to the 76 240D. Turbo? Whaaa? Power mirror.. no way! Power windows.. you mean I don't have to crank them? 😆

@kahless1984 Ай бұрын

Hey Pierre! Any thoughts on the w163? Similar era to the w210. Love your content!! Thanks!

@SoBe80s. 29 күн бұрын

I certainly would have thought the w124 would have made that list

@neilrafferty2097 Ай бұрын

Mid 90s.Downhill all the way since then.

@matsujarvinen Ай бұрын

I can´t quite agree.It´s silly to compare older cars to newer ones,which are so much more complicated and run by electronics.I have owned W123,W124 and W201.Currently W210 and W220,and they are as reliable as any old MB,if well taken care of.Not to mention better safety,comfort and economy.I´ve owned every car for at least 6 years,so I think I know what I´m talking about.However,I love MBs from the "golden era";just bought a W123 1984.

@neilrafferty2097 Ай бұрын

@matsujarvinen Maybe think he asked the wrong question.Quality no longer up to scratch for 30 years .Such a shame.

@jacoe2159 Ай бұрын

Id say W123 as well. W124 is great but not the same. W126 was well engineered but w116 is more robust in my opinion even though I enjoy my 300k mile 500se very much! Ponton, fintail and w108 are close to infinitely repairable in my opinion.

@8MunchenBayern8 Ай бұрын

80s Mercedes are the greatest cars ever.

@tonychavez2083 Ай бұрын

In my humble opinion, 92-94' W140 - 92-94' W124 were peak. W211 are very robust and durable with the M112 and M113 - solid long lived motors...

@mrkiplingreallywasanexceed8311 Ай бұрын

I am going to say 80s before this programme even starts....😎

@TahoeRealm Ай бұрын

Wunderbar 🌲

@ritabianchitobler6192 Ай бұрын

300 Sel 3.5 1971 fantastic car, 450 SL 1977 good car, 500 SEC 1986 GOOD, E 500 AMG, 1997 just😢

@petercollingwood522 Ай бұрын

I suppose these are actual "peaks" in terms of the very absolute top of the mountain. But it's not a volcano. It's a ridgeline that pretty much is up there from the 1950's to the late 90's early 2000's in my opinion.

@kevinhabener1279 Ай бұрын

I totally agree that all the peaks had taken place before 2000. The post W140 S-Class(after the W140) has been making the list of worst luxury cars on other KZfaq channels. I think the #1 most affordable to own would be the 1977-85 W123. Of the W123s, the ones I'd steer clear of more than the others are the pre-1982 300Ds which are the non-turbos because I've seen more of them on the sides of the roads and more bad things happening to them; also any 240D with an automatic because they're too slow to not need a manual transmission. In the late '90s after everything had peaked with Mercedes, Jaguar was starting to make some real nice ones in my opinion. So then I became a Jag man in the early 2000s. And that got even better in 2000/2001 when I heard that Jaguar scored high in customer satisfaction according to J.D. Power & Associates, tied with Mercedes and 1 point high than Lexus making that the most improved European luxury car brand ever. Talk about a paradigm shift for how Jaguars were known for being while Mercedes was doing great in all the ways that were talked about here.

@ZuzkaK6 Ай бұрын

For a daily driver I am looking into an 06 E320CDI, the last normal pre emission diesel. I don't think I would want to drive a W123 every day in crazy Chicago traffic.

@richardgreene3460 Ай бұрын

I have a 05 and 06 E320CDI! They are awesome cars. I get around 42mpg highway with tremendous torque!

@ZuzkaK6 Ай бұрын

@@richardgreene3460 Are they both 5speed automatic? What do you like the least about them?

@richardgreene3460 Ай бұрын

@ZuzkaK6 I honestly do not have any negatives! I did have to replace the glow plug relay on my 06. It was oddly bolted under the manifold. The only major concern with them is "black death" in which the injector seals begin to leak, causing a "crud" of mess around the injectors. Easy to check by removing the top engine cover & looking at the injectors. They should be bone dry!

@WayneB27 Ай бұрын

Pre Daimler Chrysler Merger (1998) The legendary MB durability and quality dissappered soon after IMO.

@brienmacgearailt7801 Ай бұрын

1984 to 1994 IMO, all the details and efficiency of modern vehicles but still analog and mechanically robust.

@tooththrhr Ай бұрын

Mercedes peaked with the e55. Change my mind.

@Andrew-zv4fm Ай бұрын

This is a thinker.

@athompson8976 Ай бұрын

1990s.. pre w210.

@Thankyou_3 23 күн бұрын

MB peaked late 70s and all other manufacturers peaked early 90s.

@As_129sl Ай бұрын

129 peak

@alaingillot4718 Ай бұрын

80 s

@mrknobchopps Ай бұрын

What’s with the weird background? You can see you’re not actually in that room

@azmike3572 Ай бұрын

The video effect is called Chroma Key, and it's been out and used since the 70s. And without a lapel mic, the voice is muddy.

@ikaros4203 Ай бұрын

8:15 350SDL were the ones with the blocks that would crack, why they had to push the bore of the glorious 5 cyl past the perfect trinity 3 pointed star liter I will never get.

@ronalddean3630 17 күн бұрын

Yes, I remember reading about this; I actually have a write up in my old 123 hard copy file. Too bad, it's a beautiful car otherwise.