You can’t base the complete story off of data mined names though. The developers can change a name at any time.

​@@Garl_Vinland It's just one of several things about the leak that don't make sense. The development history of Dark Souls III was very much assets first, story later. The idea these significant story and name changes were being done partway through doesn't match up with the timeline. One other particularly suspicious aspect of the leak is that, not only have none of its major claims been confirmed to be true, several major discoveries have been made that the leak didn't include. You'd think, if it were legitimate, it would have mentioned any of several other verifiable things that were found after it was published. It also claims Oceiros was added late in development, but Lance has confirmed he's even in early alpha builds.

Is it true that the Carthus Sandworm was going to be part of the boss fight too or is that fiction as well?

@@ZullietheWitch Could it be that the Gundyr was always going to be the king, and Oceiros was later changed to be the king of Lothric? It makes more sense for the Boss room to be called Gundyr that way. So instead of names being swapped around, it is the boss wholesale?

Interesting... 🤔

Ikr idk how I never connected the two. Maybe because these ones are more prominently bat looking compared to the lesser demons.

@@Jormyyy probably because they are keep moving so it’s easy to miss this detail

I don't know that it makes that much sense- presumably they lived in Izalith for most of their existence before Lorian fought them. They ended up in the Dreg Heap because a lot of things ended up in the Dreg Heap.

Wait! I thought they were the last two demons. Isn't that why one of them turns into the demon prince? But then right after the boss fight, little bat demons carry you off to the ringed city.

@@gunide Well, either the whole "last demon" thing wasn't true or the bat demons aren't actually demons. The latter makes more sense to me as they don't seem to be affected by the waning chaos flame like the other demons. I kinda wonder if what we're seeing is actually that the 2 bat demons Lorian fought died and returned as unkindled ones. It also makes Lorian's story more ironic/pathetic. Dude fought some regular old bat demons and barely lived to talk about it. Then they came back as bad ass bosses who he wouldn't have stood a chance against. Who knows, seems like there's a lot of conflicting narratives there. Good job catching that.

There needs to be more really cool boss triggers like the one you just mentioned in dark souls games going forward.

@@ronniewhitedx ds1 boss room design was awesome. Undead asylum really nailed it, being able to see not only the asylum demon but the trapped demon right off the bat looming/marching around was awesome

That's actually a really cool idea that I wish we got

*Euron Greyjoy has entered the chat*

While very cool, it would have made the fight be very gimmicky, in short instead of having the cool, life draining, hard boss fight we have noww, you would've got a version that would most likely be like the one from Demon's souls

If you faced the king first and conversely fought the prince at a lower level, it would of mirrored the fight with Oceiros and later the Twin Princes

Pretty sure the Demon Prince is technically dead already by the events of Dark Souls 3. Its stated by the description of Lorian’s sword that prince Lorian killed it. I’m pretty sure the only reason we fight it at the end of the Dreg Heap is because the fading of the fire has made time and space convoluted.

@@elijahcafazzo-joyette8226 i thought the demon prince would awaken to revive the demon species on the last demon... Until we killed It of course

Well as far as the "end of demons", from the lore as I understand it the Demon King was the last original demon. He was the last one to have been born from the original Chaos flame and the last to remember how it burned. All others were derived from other sources, presumably through either reawakenings of the chaos like we see in DS2 or perhaps through the reckless pursuit of Pyromancy. Either way, he was the end of the old demons, but a few would exist beyond him. The two demons you fight in the DLC are the true final throes of the demon race. My understanding is that the title of "demon prince" is analogous to "lord of cinder" in that any individual demon with enough power could inherit the lingering chaos flame of demonkind and use it as their strength. By killing the demon prince, we finally end the demon's cycle of flame and in turn end their world, much like how in the Ringed City DLC we end the illusion holding the city in place and see the true end of our own world, beyond the endless linking, seeing a world made only of ash and the vague memories of times gone by.

It's the same with Dragons "Oh, they're a extinct race! This is definitely last of them!" and then every game proceeds on creating more of them.

@@TheStraightestWhitest I kind of feel the same for the Lothric castle theme. Originally there used to be constant music. It could’ve been like in botw where the entire game is quite but then the finale is loud and epic. The unused castle ost also has a soul of cinder leitmotif so that would be even more fitting (I always felt like the SoC theme was kind of random)

To be fair, the dreg heap is basically a bunch of thrown together stuff from various times, making the implementation of cut content and abandoned ideas pretty fitting actually.

I never realised this before but it makes so much sense. If we actually got this for the end of the vanilla game, that would have been incredible.

I always figured that the events of the ringed city are in the same time frame as the soul of cinder fight, even farther into the future than the rest of the game (with the firekeeper's ritual moving you forwards in time)

@@ENCHANTMEN_ In the Dreg Heap everything is warped and played around so i would assume time is aswell

@@larrytotter5790 and pretty simplistic “oh what if it’s just land of the lost and we can make another ruined map”

More like Fromsoft doesn't give up on ideas they thought were really good, but just didn't work at first.

@@brant_alan More like Dark Souls 3 was dramatically unfinished and they had to shift stuff they couldn't deliver on time back to the DLC.

@@singami465 so like the entery fromsoft history XD

@Michael Smith bc fromsoft makes good games despite their tight deadlines. Look at ds2, Most companies would fold if they had a year to make a game and they had to scrap it half way through.

@Michael Smith Final products are ususally still great in FS's case. Typically an "unfinished" game is clunky and bad.

The demons did rely on the chaos flame to stay alive. It makes sense to assume that one would get the idea of using the first flame to fuel their species after the Witch of Izalith's death. I'm sure all the followers of Gywn did not take kindly to a potential usurper. Nice observation.

So basically in the DLC we were fighting for a piece of the fire, and we can assume those two demon's were on a mission for the dark soul?

@@felipecosta-kv2fx provavelmente sim

@@felipecosta-kv2fx probably not the dark soul but instead any remnant of the first flame to be found there.

@@violentvioletthesnek7448 ... Isn't that the dark soul? Isn't the dark soul from the First flame?

By that time in the series, I just expected every boss to have a bullshit 2nd/3rd phase.

I'd say yes if friede didn't do it as the boss just before him.

@@gosucab944 while yes, freide did do it before him, I still think the prince's resurrection is just cooler overall as he erupts into flames with that menacing screem that echos through the arena.

@@TheDungeonDive Ds 3 really over used that didn't it. The first time is cool. The seventh time it feels like the game is stretching out the fight for the sake of stretching it out.

@@shinysnivy6604 Speak for yourself, I think DS3's second phases made the fights feel really dynamic and unique, even if they didn't change much in the fight. The Pilgrim Butterflies in Dragonslayer Armour's fight, for example, made the second phase feel so much more climactic and intense than if you just fought the DS Armor the same way the whole fight.

Yeah honestly I'm all for it, being able to see complete and polished versions of what we didn't get at first.

well the demon firesage can be plunge attacked (not in a regular playthrough) and i guess that it is the same for the second asylum demon

Sounds like you might be referencing it directly but just in case, the demon firesage fits this

@@jeanpleurezz3381 I mean in PC PTDE it is TECHNICALLY possible in a playthrough using demon ruins skip...

I'd love to plunge the stupid Capra Demon. Feck that guy.

@@midnght9914 You can, just no special animation. Still good damage though.

Plus the feeling of absolute power when you defeat 3 demons alone in one fight. Best DLC boss

It's also my favourite, they look so cool and the fight is fun

seasons' greasons!

I mean it's a skippable zone within an optionnal zone as you can just go right off to the Demon Kings arena and skip everything else if you don't play as a pyromancer as you need to get the tome of Izalith and Quelana

you're just glad you didn't have to get anywhere close to one of the biggest cliffs in the game.

It probably would of been more similar to Kalameet if I had to guess. Wings and ranged attacks essentially win you a fight if your foe can't force you to land. Idk why the drakes land to be honest. Maybe they can't fly for long? Seems unlikely.

@@SpotterOtter it would have been much cooler to be able to actually use the ballista after all the work it takes to get up there, instead of just pressing the off button. I doubt anyone would want to deal with *both* a flying demon bombing you with fireballs and a ballista at the same time, though

@@moonlightning8269 Once you run across the field the ballista is unable to shoot you. The land where the ballista is placed does seem like it would have something land there to attack you so maybe it would defend the ballista to keep you from shooting it.

The “death rune” mentioned in the latest Elden Ring story trailer is also a reference to Glorantha.

The Gru in DS3 are also a direct reference to the Broo. who are often mis-shapen livestock-men.

Dank. Cheers for the reference.

Much like Quelaag, Cragspider, and the unused Jar Eel boss, which are also Glorantha/Dragon’s Pass/Runequest references

Same here Demon Prince and Gael are the hardest bosses for me I think partially because they both have large health bars so just simply spending more time in the fight makes me more liable to make mistakes.

Reminds me when I did a Chaos play-through and had to fight the Demon Prince, literally was almost impossible lmfao And yes, Old Demon King was hard too, but no where near as bad 😂

Demon Prince on SL1 changes a man.

@@manvslife271 For worse

@@TheCrispyTwinkies Boulder heave for the win lmao

Instead we got hell crabs, big worm and infinite ammo turret makes me sad.

@@leanbean8962 Yeah, an area that I think feels a bit unfinished. But, with that the video makes a lot of sense lol

yep. I think It would be the only interesting theme in this game, but this dumbass miyazaki just threw it away, the most fitting theme from the game just to put another generic ds3 soundtrack that brings nothing new to the table

@@faraam7111 Bro you good? It’s just a video game but you’re wrong anyways that phase 2 especially slaps hard for Demon Prince.

@@waltersullivan2727 yeah, maybe its very epic, but aren't all of the ds3's soundtracks like that? Epic choirs and Orchestra. No storytelling, no emotions. When I listened to Crimson bat ost while fighting demon prince I really felt like killing the last remaining demon in the world, destroying the whole species that wanted no more than peace. That is very good storytelling. But why Brother when you can make epic orchiestra music with choirs for the 50th time, right? Look at the Ds1 soundtrack and how they handled the music. Every ost is different and tells different story

@@faraam7111 No story telling no emotion? You listen to Abyss Watchers or Twin Princess OST and tell me you don’t get emotion out of that? Crimson Bat OST isn’t bad at all but I just think Demon Prince fits better. That transition from phase 1 to Phase 2 is a gradual bellow. Coupled with the Demon Prince rising from the ashes fits very well. The theme also low-key gives me Demon of Hatred vibes which I love. “Wanted no more than peace” thats a stretch lol

@@waltersullivan2727 okay, watchers and princess soundtracks contain a storytelling, but still, those are exeptions and not a rule

Really? Not gael or pontiff?

@@timelessdust3001 no, like he just said, twin demons where do you come out of nowhere "really not Gael or pontiff?" Derp Derp. Did anywhere in his comment he type Gael or pontiff? He clearly clearly clearly said twin demon no one care about your favorites cause no one asked. So dont go pushing your favorites "no Gael or pontiff Derp?" Really you mean your favorite isn't dancer or yhorm? I mean really who likes pontiff? Easier than most bosses in the game easier to parry than Iudex gundyr. Next time domt comment

@@ramrodbldm9876 Jesus dude calm down haha, his comment was uncalled for but he was just tryna start discussion not a flame war

It's impossible to decide on a single favorite, but the Demon Prince is definitely in the top three for me!

@@ramrodbldm9876 holy moly man, calm down imagine being this insecure over something on the internet

No need to take screenshots of the video, I have something much better: twitter.com/ZullieTheWitch/status/1466663349312102400 twitter.com/ZullieTheWitch/status/1466664962881953794

@@ZullietheWitch thanks, it does look better there

Kalameet, Chester and Artorias had concept art long before Dark Souls 1 even came out. They worked them out in the DLC. Brume Tower DLC in Dark Souls 2 used a lot of assets or ideas from the early version of Iron Keep. And yeah the Bat Demon was earlier than the DLC. A lot of armors that were in the DLC were already existing in the files in Dark Souls 3 before they were released. Unfortunately the coolest one called the Burial Knight set was never released

@@brant_alan I'm kinda upset that Ledo's set was cut from the DLC myself. That's the one piece of cut content that I really wish made it in.

@@brant_alan I'm still not over the removal of the burial knight set...

The story of the demons in all 3 games is being shafted. In the first game, they’ve been beaten down by Gwyn. Then a random undead comes along and destroys their birth flame, leaving them in permanent decline. In 2, you kill one of their kings. Then in 3, the Ashen One comes along and murders the last of their race. At no point are they really a large scale threat.

@@Fireclaws10 to be honest it us implied that the war with the demons is what started the decline of the age of fire. Gwyn may have ended up winning but the huge losses inflicted upon his forces led to the weakening of his age, the rise of the undead curse and power of the dark souls emerging. Which led Gwyn sacrifice himself in order to preserve the age of fire.

You do know The age of fire was in decline even bafore the demons got to exist right? they were created by a failed attempt to recreate the first flame by the Witch of Izalith known as chaos flame which all the demons share

*before

The way none of the lessons from this fight transferred to elden ring is such a letdown too. I think the poison mist from the valiant gargoyles doing contact and stagger damage is the single worst thing in that entire game, and it was solved in this fight from DS3.

The way none of the lessons from this fight transferred to elden ring is such a letdown too. I think the poison mist from the valiant gargoyles doing contact and stagger damage is the single worst thing in that entire game, and it was solved in this fight from DS3.

actually im drunk now and i love you k thanx bye

The batwing demons were just lesser demons that were slaved by Gwyn after the war with demons.

I saw one theory that the Batwings that take you down to the Undead Settlement were enslaved when Lorian slew the original Demon Prince. Sounds plausible to me. There's the question though of just how intelligent Demons are; they can be entrusted with tasks that they will carry out faithfully, like serving as prison guards, gatekeepers, and transportation, they can train and command dogs, and they can carve weapons from the bones of their kin. Are they mindless killing machines of all but their own kind if left to their own devices, and if not why did Gwyn wage war on them? Did the Batwings choose to serve Anor Londo and Lothric, or were they coerced into doing so?

@@jadenkarpoff9158 the chaos demons are 100% as intelligent as any human, god, dragon, or giant. they have culture, tombs, priests, cities, royalty, and are considered a faction capable of taking part in a war. chances are most don't speak the common language in the dark souls universe. you need a ring to speak with the fair lady, and that's about the only instance of one speaking. and considering the chaos witches were the origin of the demons, it's likely they share the same tongue.

@@gilvanneto5772 yeah, but they're also very unique demons considering the rest we see. they resemble something you'd expect to find more in dark souls 2, not the chaos demons of isalith. I wonder if there's a reason, or if they're just... idk, cleaned up? the fact that the demon princes have flame attacks still, I'd say the later is likely. but it also could be that they were enslaved in particular because they were demon nobility or something. sort of a statement to the rest of the demons if that makes senese.

Excess of detail I think it’s more so this monster is always in high motion so it’s harder to absorb finer details.