India showed about 30 years ago that you can walk out of the IMF program and need never go back. Pakistan rejected that model simply because it is an Indian model.

This is a very good discussion. As someone who studies Economics, especially Modern Monetary Theory. I believe I should rewatch and review. Lets start 2:41 In my Opinion, a free floating Pakistani Rupee is required. When you fix the conversion rate it doesn't mean that people cannot convert the Rupees at unsanctioned rate. It means that the central bank will have to back the Rupees in exchange of dollars. This means that you will end up depleting dollars just to defend your currency. Yes your imports will become expensive but the price will soon stabilise. And yes your debt obligations will increase in Rupee terms but thinking that fixing the exchange rate will save you money is wrong way of thinking. It will cost you even more as the cost of defending Pakistani Rupee will be even higher. This has been proven by Economic models for decades now. 5:40 Yes Pakistan is too dependent on import but if Pakistan saves money by reducing Military spending, they will be able to impose good impactful changes. India went to IMF in 1991 and did not have to go again. Bangladesh, a nation which does go to IMF more often, has even less resources than Pakistan but brought about correct changes and improved. 11:55 Virtually Every country controls the exchange rate in some capacity but the Exchange rate should be mindfully and realistically set. India had similar problems in 91. Pakistan doesn't even attempt to reform service sector. 16:16 yes that is true and correct. 18:49 Beggars can't be choosers. Just because the majority in the country has decided something doesn't mean that it is good. Segregation in USA was democratic. Do you have the right to implement the policies you want. Yes. But then you can't crib and complain about things not going your way. 21:22 No IMF has not stopped you from doing all of these thing. Your Army has. Janab aapne kabhi IMF ki baatien nahi mani hain. 23:20 I am not informed on this but if this is true then it makes no sense. Taimur Bhaijaan is right to criticize it. 23:46 Spending aapke control meh hai Janab. Spending sudharen. 25:45 The most important thing is budget and government spending. 29:18 (with regard to what has been discussed in the last 4 minutes) In my opinion, Taimur Bhaijaan's recommendation while sometimes good cannot improve Pakistan if they go beyond IMF's framework. The framework presented by IMF is genuinely important for growth. 33:25 I commend the dedication Taimur Bhaijan has with regards to his standings. I wish you well and hope that you do well in Pakistani Politics. *** Bhutto's Nationalization *** I will not comment on this part because I am not aware of the history of this part. Neo-Liberalism has lot of problem and Taimur Bhaijan is right to be weary of Neo-Liberalism. I don't blame Bhutto for any economic failure. Man was under a lot of pressure during his entire tenure. ******************************** Private is better than Public generally because private firm do not suffer from corruption and everyone in the firm is incentivised. Private can work but you need good and honest workforce which I don't think Pakistan has. 47:00 Yes that is true. This is part of Modern Monetary theory. Yes they only give these loans for profit. Yes that would incentivise Real Estate loans. 48:58 This is interesting. Taimur Bhaijaan does not understand what the word free means in free market. Yes The spending by the Government in USA is a lot but that does not mean that USA is a command (un free) economy. You can go and check the economic freedom rating by various agencies which rate Pakistan poorly especially when it come to business freedom. Spending does not mean control. Restriction = Control. Pakistan has constricted business activity. www.heritage.org/index/visualize 52:45 Taimur is correct here and while Shehzad is correct to point out the short coming in Pakistani system, it is not the responsibility of Pakistani banks. 55:46 Not necessarily. It is possible to give that money and not have inflation because Inflation occurs only when the money supplied is spent on a single type of commodity in large proportions. You can get away with not having inflation if the money is spent on things like Heavy machinery, stocks, etc. or yes, if the money is converted to dollar and taken out of the country. Inflation is really complicated. I would suggest anyone reading this to watch this video by PHD Joeri Schasfoort kzfaq.info/get/bejne/sN6ngpep3JqnimQ.html 57:29 Taimur is right. This should be implement and should work in my opinion. The reason IMF has not allowed you to have a state bank which can lend money to the state is because Pakistan might use that printed money for paying loan which will be disastrous. First prove that you can spend the money correctly after cutting your budget and then go on to reform the Bank. 1:05:00 Shezad is correct. SME can grow in my opinion I don't trust the Pakistani Government to lead industrialization. MSME should be empowered to lead industrialization. ***** END****** I would have to write more but I don't feel the topics after this are relevant to me. Thanks for reading. Keep up the good work Shehzad. P.S. I might have some spelling mistakes. I am not proofreading to correct any mistakes. I am tired.

You can watch this episode in 4K also!

He actually makes some brilliant points backed with data. If we look at India, Modi is doing the same thing. He is giving incentives to Tata, Ambani, Adani (using them as state tools) to create large scale industries. He is incentivising sectors through PLI which create growth like electronics manufacturing, capital goods and defense. He is putting trade barriers to protect local economy. Investing heavily in technology like UPI, JanDhan, ONDC etc.

Fact Sheet about Pakistan economy -GDP -$340 billion -GDP growth -0.3% external debts-$132 billion (39% of the GDP) Exports-$35 billion+ Remittances-$30 billion Imports-$60 billion Interest rate-22% Inflation-39% Citizens below poverty line-35.7% (8.6 crore)

As a small business owner, outside of Pakistan. I completely agree with Dr. Taimur, it is very difficult almost impossible to compete with big companies. We do not have the money or accessories to compete with Wallmart.

we need more conversations like this for bringing social change in Pakistan. Only social change will challenge forces of status quo and bring economic change.

Any young guys who are listening to this dialogue, should also see Taimur Rehmans tutorials on political science, economics and also his LUMS lectures. Outstanding academician, scholar, speaker and teacher.

I wish Uzair Yunus could have been here. A number of arguments being presented by Dr.Taimur here are either flawed or incomplete.

"Yeh jo karay ga uska Mazar kahan banay ga" was epic by Shehzad. Great podcast

Western economies government expenditure to GDP ratio is high e.g 40-45% but he forgot to mention that tax to GDP ratio is 35-40% as well 😂😂

I am always (mostly) convinced by Taimur's (must try!!) ideas and study on economics. As a small business, I can totally understand the associated pain and gains. Good content Shaikh sab! :)

The more the state is involved .. more goes to bureaucracy’s pocket … it doesn’t matter what you write in your constitution.

Apologies Dr. Taimur, but it is not IMF's problem that even after bailing Pakistan's economy out more than a dozen times, Pakistan's export industry has not created enough value addition on its imported raw materials, that devaluation of Pakistan's currency still does not translate to substantial increase in Pakistani exports' competitiveness. The core problem lies in the elite capture of political economy, red-tapism and control of establishment in Pakistan's economy, that doesn't let Pakistan get out of its cycle of debts. I do agree that strategically important sectors should have govt control of export-import, but to base an economy entirely on the idea of protectionism, doesn't lead it anywhere in the long run. It rather creates more red-tapism and corruption of bureaucracy. A good example is the Licence-Raj period in India. Secondly, your argument that Pakistan's economic policy especially viz-a-viz import restrictions and currency value, has been strictly dictated by IMF during the entire period of 3-4 decades, is honestly a weak argument and sounds like an easy escape. Many govts in the past in Pakistan have often manipulated exchange rates e.g. Musharraf and Ishaq Dar, for lengthy durations, so the evidence here suggests otherwise. It is only now after 3-4 decades of carrying Pakistan's economy (and also the fact that Afghanistan and hence Pakistan has lost its strategic significance it once had), that IMF is so strict on having their way with Pakistan's future economic policy.

The core point is why will elite & establishment improve economy when they are living in super luxury. Who the hell is awam of Pakistan. When army is in the business why would they do structural reforms to kull their own companies? Get real . Nothing will change in Pakistan.Enjoy the daily comedt show

If people like Taimur Rahman are teaching economic in Pakistan universes then its not surprising to see current economic condition of Pakistan. The theories and argument presented by this gentlemen have fundamental flaws in its core basis.

My dad (late) was inclined towards left and had been politically active among the left movements too. What I observed is that left is comprised of free thinking intellectuals and artists of all types, things which are frowned upon in our extreme theistic society. This has been a significant impediment to left’s political success, especially with the association of communism/socialism/marxism with atheism.

I'm really looking forward to this podcast and the much-needed insight into the Pakistani economy. Hopefully we will get a clear understanding on what’s actually going on.

What the professor is actually saying is kind of utopia. This looks good when talking while you are sipping coffee. The only way a nation comes out of poverty is when it has a free market capitalist economy. ( with a good governance who gives equal opportunity to its citizens without any discrimination). South Korea,Japan, Singapore, Israel are the best examples in Asia for it.

His comment on govt expenditure to GDP is very misleading. Look at the tax intake of those countries like US or UK. It is slightly less than govt expenditure, so the metric one needs to look at is Govt Expenditure/ Tax. For US or Western countries it is under 1.5. In Pakistan it is > 2. So even though Govt expenditure is lesser as percentage of GDP , you "loose" the right to spend if your tax system is leaky. Which is the case with 3rd world countries. And I am not accounting for corruption etc in poor countries

He argues that western contries contribute a high percentage of government funds to the GDP. What he fails to mention is that this government expenditure is made towards education, public services, socialised healthcare (euro countries) etc.

In India banks are following individuals to give Home loans and personal loans, very strange to hear that this is not very prevalent in Pakistan.

Very well expanation of the Left Perspective in the contemporary politics...The host gave tough time but all the questions were answered politily,logically, and patiently...collected lot of onowledge.thanks

Before watching this video I had never heard anyone giving solutions to Pakistan economical problems and I had never seen any podcast in Pakistan where you learn a lot.

Very hot discussion. Amazing!! What a classy podcast.

One point I agree with him is priority sector bank lending. In India, RBI does have some levers and push for say agri loans or SME loans. Why cant the SBP do that I wonder

How much difficult to explain to any Pakistani that it is not IMF that is going to fix their economy. It is not their job.

Teacher ❤

My questions 1. Relegious fanaticism (muzhubi touch) is actually divideding people of Pakistan then how public sentiment or public unity can generate public awareness for economic policy or development of Pakistan? 2. India is growing & becoming major exporter for world then trade relationship between India & Pakistan can help Pakistan for decrease the cost of import. Thus pak can make low cost product from importing row materials from India at cheap prices and then export it at international market at competitive prices. Pakistan can also take advantage of geo location for transferring goods from thier roads or act as intermideatary. Aslo can take advantage of education as language is similar but why Pakistan is not trying to improve relationship with India? Why still not controlling terro2233m? 3. When the trade was open between india & Pak, India had given pak the status of most favoured nation for trade but why Pakistan has not given any such preference? India has provided air space for travel but Pakistan had blocked air space? Whenever india has started peace negotiations then pak has backstabed India again & again why? And when pak will realise and stop doing it? 4. Pakistan army possesses 12 percent of the country's land, out of which two-thirds is owned by senior military officers. Fauji Foundation is the world's largest military owned conglomerate worth over $20 billion. Then why IMF can't see the asset of pak army? Still subsidy & land grabbing going on...why?

I think Marx also said relegion is opium of masses..Yeh sach hi hai 😢

Appreciate your endeavours to cover all views with an open mind!!

Yet another great show. And great guest. Excellent effort so proud of you 👏👏

2020 Tak Pakistan Chaand Par Baithkar, Dharti Ke Faislay Kar Raha Hoga - Laal Topi ( Zaid Hamid - E - Azam )

Dr Taimoor Rahman Economics is mix of Marx university as well as Labbaik ya rasool Allah university. 😂 🤣 No doubt pakistan 🇵🇰 🕌 🐫 economy is in dol drum 🥁. 😂 🤣 😂

Despite your health at the time it was a delightful podcast. Prof Taimur always makes his points eleqointly even when I totally disagree with his perspective &/or analysis. Cant wait for the rest of this Lahore Session. Keep up the great work Shehzad!

Shahzad bhay thank you so much for inviting DR Taimur Rahman sb. ❤

SME/ MSME can compete with bigger brand. I couldn't understand his setup there. Be it in tech/ product based or service based, in India most of MSME has been competing with larger brands. Obviously they might eventually end up bought by the same big fish😅

I agree with dr taimur's viewpoint on division in left ... lovely podcast btw

This podcast will trigger so many hardcore capitalists

That "To phir me na hi samjhun" by shehzad cracked me up 😂

I am shocked that this guy taught economics. I feel sorry for his pupils. What absurd and silly economic view.

To keep a balanced view, you should invite someone from the other camp as well. Chicago school of economics/Austrian Economists/Free Market Economist. Someone from the Free-Market Camp

It was a brilliant, thought-provoking conversation.

He was spot on. China has grown exclusively due to this policy. Chengdu Metro made Lahore Metro. Here in Chengdu, Chengdu Metro was establish by Chinese government creating money in yuan, Using Chinese steel industry and construction industry, and Xinan Jiaotong University which was primarily established to create local engineers for railways. And in Lahore, we imported engineers, imported steel, imported construction equipment and imported metro or foriegn financing from Chinese Financial Institutions in a currency we do not print or control. This is a product of current free market economy setup. Dr. Sahab is absolutely spot on.

Among what Ive come across unlike IMF the much worse problem for 3rd World economies has been the WTO. I've known people who've been at important meeting in my country and have been unable to secure local govt made cheap nedication or food for the poor of the nation because of WTO mandates despite having the facilty in the former and 100's of tonnes of it going to waste due to stagnation in govt. storages in latter. Systems like healthcare really do struggle in densely populated countries because of such mandates.

Very useful discussion. Thank you Shazad and the learned professor!

This man makes so much sense ❤

Thank you very much for your very informative and very interesting program on borrowing money from IMF Taimur Rehman sahib I am a student of Commerce and belong to a business family Anyway the point you have explained very nicely If $ increase the rupees value goes down Prices of commodities will decrease But if we are importing Raw Material from outside We have to pay in $ After processing if we want to export the commodity Because of the high price of $ The price of the commodity naturally will be more Nobody would like to buy our products

Shehzad you made more sense as a non-economist than dr taimur. The military budget/ subsidies should not be cut because we have debt repayments? What kind of logic is that? Every penny counts…. The more budget we divert to health and education the better chances of developing the country

Just saw both of you eating wuth Engineer Muhammad Ali Mirza. I then watched both of the podcats, and man both of you did a fantastic job. I'm glad i found your channels. Looking forward to all og your podcasts from now on.

1:00:00 It's in the hand of private because private capital is not sovereign. They make stupid decisions they would suffer whereas if sovereign make stupid decision we will suffer.

When some Indians start to criticise a Pakistani for no logical reason, then Pakistan, understand you’ve got a gem.

Thank you Shahzad for any other great podcast 📻 ❤️

I believe in capitalism but the argument was even rational ,humble and knowledgeable ❤

I must say this interview is really v v informative, bysted many myths. Earlier I did not v much like Dr. Sab but now I am feeling v convinced from his thoughts. Kudos. Plz make more podcasts with hjm to let us, non-economics students gain more clear concepts about macro economy. This is a very appreciable show!!🎉🎉

Beggars are not choosers What are the possibilities of bringing down the gap between Imports and Exports Why don't the Economist of the country sit down and try to find a solution Our Economist are 24/7 leg pulling each other

Excellent Podcast . Shehzad you have been improving, fantastic questioning and good strength on Economic policies. Keep up the great work buddy.

The second half of the podcast was good. And the studio set-up and acoustics look much improved. Content was good, as it usually is. Only thing is, economic theories and encapsulated principles work in ideal situation, not in such real life situation far moved from ideal and all things remaining constant kind of situation like where Pakistan is placed currently. People blame higher interest rates, but can someone suggest any other measure that can be taken to incentivize savings as against consumption. If the real interest rate is so deeply negative like in Pakistan, people will have strong propensity to consume rather than save. Without savings, investments wont happen. Quick-fixes and band aids and chest-beating are no solutions at all.

That's a great podcast. Thank you Shehzad for this interactive session with Dr. Taimoor. You didn't ask my questions as I was waiting for that🥺. Anyway keep it up man💯

The host doesn't realize whom he is debating with. He keeps on debating just for debate. Jack of all trades!

Why do capitalism and communism have to be mutually exclusive? Many countries already have hybrid systems in place such as "Communism with Chinese characteristics" and socialism.

Apologizes to this gentleman...but his ideas were implemented in Bengal...and we can see the devastation.... Venezuela is a other example....🙄

سر مزہ آگیا قسمیں 🎉

Hi Shehzad, appreciate your work! Wanted to add to the point professor made during 1:03:00 (private enterprise vs state production). If you look at most developed economies you'd see their biggest source of income is from industries like telecom, health, automobile production and sale, insurance, and other commodity production (some countries made it through oil or tourism but that's not the general pattern). All such industries require some state intervention and funding. The government can spend with much more scale and targetted effort until the player/s reach a level where specific minimum standards are set. To this day governments have majority shares in major airlines and even industries like semiconductor (which is probably the next big world industry). The probability that an innovator or disruptor comes through private ownership is at best exceptional and has only happened in already industrialized countries, so highly improbable to say the least. During 1:08:00 you gave an example. I think you still need Carbon Fiber at a cheaper price if you could sell it to the world. You could take debt in Pakistan but the rates are going to be massive. If the government backs you, probably might make it, if not, a very high chance a Chinese or American firm buys you. And yes you gave the example of Atoms. Their revenue is 0.01% of Nike. I felt that comparison was odd.

damn ..... may pakistan be blessed with more such geniuses like taimur 😇😇😇😂😂😂🤪🤪🤪

Next time koi Star Wars ka economic expert bulana. Equality reality based hoga 😂

problem is that ... protection does not help consumers and creates local monopolies

I am from Kerala and lemme tell you .. the high HDI is because of foreign money ( mainly Middle East ) … our people are a great workforce outside Kerala … Kerala me hum log bas Lal jhanda dikhake na khud kaam karenge na kisi aur ko kaam karne denge …and 30 years of communism has ruined Bengal to a point that recovery will take ages to come .

2 elites discussing pakistan's problem that too idealists🤣, little do they know they are the part of it!

Very good podcast ❤

Dr Taimur is mistaken about industrialization in kerala and west bengal. There is no such thing in those states. I know i am from kerala.

Mr. Taimur very cleverly changed the topic when crossed with critical questions. Like blaming problems the western capitalism have but forget that by any standard the western contries have better standards of living compared to asian country or a socialist country. 2nd point is that the arab state owned airlines are dominating the business but do not mention that only the countries with easy oil money are able to do this.

IMF is a lender n would put conditions to ensure that its loan is secured.. If you are so much against it then don’t go to IMF.. Manage your affairs with your own funds. Taimur is not talking about productivity, Innovation, R&D etc. playing an important role in economic development… Govt should never sit in Businesses rather provide efficient governance to drive economic growth… So Taimur is absolutely wrong n misleading…

Bro can you have debates on your podcast with people with from different viewpoints

Also the money that overseas Pakistanis send us, is spent on buying consumer goods + luxury products and not on industrializing Pakistan.

Dr. Taimoor is damn right that dollar cannot be left at the mercy of market forces. But the question of our economic downfall revolves around our lack of sincerity, and massive corruption and extravagance and on top of that disallowing youth and unemployed to grow and extract taxes from retail and whole-sellers. And above all allowing unabated lack of justice and lack of merit. If this is to continue like this is perfect recipe for disaster which we are having.

India also removed all Import Restrictions in 1991, and allowed Foreign Capitalists to Invest and Take Up a Significant Chunk of Indian Economy. Taimur Rahman is wrong, when he says that there should be import restrictions. The ppl in power in Pakistan don't want to dilute their power, which is IMF recommendations aren't followed.

Perils of free economy are true.Totally agree .First we in the third world countries have to provide minimum basic to the people.

Very informative specially with queries and responses accordingly

on the SME vs large scale debate, Taimur is absolutely right, because he is talking about the SME sector as a whole, and Shehzad is just picking a single example out of million and not talking about the whole sector.So it is not about an individual examples about the full SME sector.

Not convincing enough for me. I still believe Marxism is the most deadliest idea in the history of humanity. He made some decent arguments though.

Ek establishment Imran Riaz ko nhi release karrhi or dosray ap podcast release nahi karrhay Lahore walay😅

Appreciate taimur rahman sahib analysis.. great suggestions.. should be right people on the right chairs.

dr taimur is one of my favorite person to listen to

Most of finance minister in have been either accountant, banker or pencil pusher like Sheikh Shahib. Thats why Pakistan does not have economic policy since 1947 except during PPP govt in 70s.

Salam Namaste Sat Sri Akaal sab bhai behno ko🙏

Shahzad Bro! No Offense , just mentioning it so that you may improve...In this podcast a lot of times you argued just for the sake of argument...I don't judge you , I mean it's your right to demand clarity from the guest but at some points about a few things you argued which were clear as 2+2=4 😅...Again No Offense! You are doing great...

Islamia university bahawalpur pe b podcast kr deyn shayad leftist is pe bolna hi ni chahty😢

Population of pakistan doubled during 1980-2000… the same period dr sahab is talking about…. This was not inevitable or due to IMF….

Capitalist Adani Bought Port From Communist Government in Kerala Kerala Government literally begged him to invest their port.

him using word utopia in condescending manner is funny.

A nation not willing to own up to its mistakes will be cursed to repeating them. Our policy makers are the reason we are in this mess, not IMF.

I love how many of your guests including Taimur Rehman state that everything is the fault of someone other than Pakistani govt/establishment (yes I know he talked about one of the issues being the lion's share of the budget going to defense/national security). As always though, the left fails at making a convincing argument - at least for me.

Great economist! Love Pakistani economists!

People give a lot of credit to Manmohan Singh and PVN for opening up India's economy.. But it was IMF's budget

Dr. Taimur explain such concepts so easily. He is brilliant in explaining economy.

Kerela economy runs on gulf money and tourism what industry is there??

Your export competitiveness is not dependent only on the dollar rate. In the medium to long term you need to focus on value add efficiency.

It is clear that People of Pakistan are very much interested a separate countries, one has to accept that the people are working on that direction.

Yeh IMF ki galti Nahin hai k itny karzy Dany ky baad bhi India chain Bangladesh ki tarha humny koi micro industries Nahin lagai... 70 Saal toh humny Lumber 1 ban k guzar dia.. algy 10-20 Saal tyar ho jao dandy k liye...