Between DPE overshadowing it and Dragoon being banned in Master Duel, it's kinda crazy how quickly it left the public conscious despite how it was heralded as the bringer of the end times when it came out in the TCG.

The easiest way to explain why Dragoon gets overshadowed by DPE is seeing how people reacting at opening with a Red-Eyes Fusion vs opening with a Fusion Destiny (in combo decks at least)

1) Dragoon is an S tier monster with an F tier package while dpe is an A tier monster with A tier package (stolen). There are lots of good destiny hero monsters with gy effects (people are even testing fusion destiny with dangerous in despia) 2) OCG did not have the common staple outs (droplets, triple tac, even Zeus one may argue) that we had when we got him. 3) the discard to negate hurts. Imagine if dpe destroyed a card in your hand instead of field. 4) Better to summon a monster that will help you survive but also give you follow-up in case you get hit by a double handtrap play Overall, card can win games. It is insane going second if you manage to get to verte (can ever use charmer to steal a verte) but playing three awful cards isn't worth it. Also not worth summoning a negate that also loses to droplet (can negate rite though) while you can play stuff that helps you against board breakers.

In the OCG Dragun was a plan b in case the opponent has Maxx "C", some control decks also played 3 copies of Red-Eyes Fusion if they didn't want to summon that much. PK was a dominant deck there because it could stop their combo at any moment and still end on some Fog Blades. Flowanderize was predicted to break the OCG because it didn't special summon. It's actually quite amusing to watch how one little bug can dictate the entire format.

I feel like Dragoon has largely been relegated in tcg to the verte target for rogue decks that can't capitalise on the DPE engine. For example, you play it in Appliancer because you value the negation and the ability to actually close a game out more because well, your appliancer monsters sure as shit aren't going to kill your opponent lmao

When I first started playing again in late 2020 I was like "wow Dragoon is busted this is gonna be a staple until it's banned", and even when DPE was announced I don't think I appreciated its constant self-recurrance -- but even besides that, the fusion destiny package is just so much easier to work with than the red eyes fusion package that even if you think DPE is a weaker card, I think the splashability of the DPE engine easily makes it the more flexible card.

The biggest advantage dragoon has over dpe is the sick card art. Genuienly looks super cool even though he's just a harder to destroy mechaba

It flat-out sucks that you can use DPE outside of HERO decks, because HERO decks already suck and somehow they still risk getting nerfed.

Dragoon has definitely been over-shadowed by DPE (which as a HERO fan makes me a bit happy that HEROES are being competitive in any way), but that doesnt nor shouldnt mean that Dragoon is a lesser card than DPE. DPE has great ability to dodge and pop things and bring himself back, while Dragoon is just a standard Omni-negate boss monster (bc we NEVER have enough of those /sarcasm). But what makes DPE so good is not just its ability to resurrect itself, but the materials that every non-HERO meta deck uses are Celestial and Dasher. Dasher can give you a free Special Summon, and Celestial can banish himself and Dasher to give you a Draw 2. DPE definitely gives the player a lot more flexibilty that just siting omni-negate monster that can eventually be taken out (or Kaiju'd) and you most likely will never get it back.

For those wondering why Dragoon was much more powerful in the OCG, they have Maxx C legal, so Dragoon pass was a good board to end on if you were under Maxx C, a hard to kill omni negate while only drawing your opponent 1 card if you have REF in hand (3 if you go down the verte line, assuming 1 material is your normal summon and hence not counted towards Maxx C, otherwise it'd be 4). Would DPE have competed with that? Honestly I'm not sure, a big part of it was that if they were under Maxx C they could pass with a omni negate which was hard to deal with, but DPE removes itself (usually) from the field and has a lot more cards which out it, in the context of why the OCG used Dragoon, DPE doesn't really fill what they were looking for (obviously DPE IS really good in the OCG rn, I just mean how it would compete if Dragoon was legal.) Although it is possible I'm missing something and being stupid.

Red-Eyes Dark Dragoon is the definitive example of a "There won't be a next turn." Monster.

Long story short, Dragoon is still busted but drident every turn + pot of greed is better.

There's one thing as well : dragoon is untargetable and indestructible by card effects, phoenix enforcer floats and can leave the field at any time to come back later, meaning he kinda has the same if not as strong level of protection, since he will not be on the field, the difference between your opponent cracking your board with dragoon and cracking a board with phoenix enforcer is much different

If you ask me having them both still playable just proves the point of how broken Verte itself is. Even if Verte required Predaplants for it's summoning it would still be an issue because of how you could just splash in a small engine into anything.

I’m a Dark Magician player and I run 3 REF. Nowadays it’s a must, the new support allows us to bait hand traps then hard play it or we can turbo anaconda. Extra copies get sent for draws with magicians souls or put back into deck with illusion of chaos. LOZA and co have some great builds.

So if you want to risk it and win quick go with Dragoon. If you want to go for consistency and control, Enforcer is your right choice.

dragoon is looking really nice in albaz, simply because you dont have to run any of the bricks

My opponent plays dark magician and he always played dragoon so I always play dark ruler no more and super poly and I play Shaddoll

Still playing it in my Branded Despia deck Also at tournaments my dragoon easily outs DPE in other Branded decks so gonna stick with it.

For anyone coming here to see if Dragoon is still relevant Try Going 3 copies of chain Materials (Trap card) + 3 Flash fusions +3 Necro Fusions +3 Rapid Trigger with every draw and trap search card you can find Congrats, now you can make 3 Dragoons during your opponent DRAW phase :)

a total Chad, like me, just use Anaconda occasionally to send to the gy Magicalized Fusion and summon Quintet Magician

Random and unrelated to the video but I really love your recent direction with your thumbnails. Different from your old style but I definitely love it! 😎👍🏽

Now that Verte Anaconda is banned, Dark Dragoon just isn’t the terror it once was.

I think it's really just the better fusion card and the materials that make DPE better. If we just look at the monster itself I think dragoon is definitely better.

Sometimes a quick effect non targeting POP POP is better than an Omni negate especially if that negate gets chain blocked sometimes. And sometimes just blowing up their one Normal Summon before they can do anything else is good enough. (. ❛ ᴗ ❛.) -Also Pot of Greed from the GY is pretty good-

IMO Verte is still the number 1 offender for why both of these cards are so insanely good. Verte is just nuts in almost every regard and having access to DPE or Dragoon at all times is the number 1 reason they are so format defining (at least more so in DPE's case). Just ban Verte and I don't personally believe DPE would be as common or as insane.

It really took me until the 6 minutes part to realize that Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer can sac itself to trigger its recursion ability AND that it can recur itself. Wow that's nasty.

Here’s the thing though, DPE is really easy to put or proc. Dragoon can’t be destroyed by anything but non-targeting banish, or kaijus, or non-targeting stat modulation. Plus, it gains attack, and can pop two monsters a turn if going second. Dragoon itself is better, but the engine around it is worse.

i dont usually comment on your videos. but this was one of the better discussion topics you've released in a long time. It was well reasoned, well explained and was genuinely interesting to hear about. I would personally much rather see more topics like this than videos discussing why people dont use a legacy card anymore. Legacy cards are always going to have that nostalgia factor involved and some are still very good obviously. but comparing two incredibly potent but equally divisive cards like these lends to a much more interesting discussion. good work!

When Konami taps onto red eyes potential this happens, now I want to see a red eyes blue eyes fusion

Option C, can't afford to buy them lol. But would take Destiny HERO overall since I made a Destiny Hero deck a while back so wouldn't be too costly

Yu-gi-oh used to be so fun, even pokemon too. But that was when they first came out and now there is too many gimmicks that go along with the games. What's the point of making cool cards if they end up banning them? I guess what I really miss is the dopamine rush of opening a new pack of cards and seeing cool new art work or high attack / defense numbers. Red Eyes Black Dragon was one of my favorite monsters along with Dark Magician - holy shit combining them into a damn DRAGOON you just activated my 90's nostalgia card!

Thinking about the person I duelled in Master Duel that for some reason didn't destroy my Invoked Caliga with their DPE's card effect, instead destroying something else, and then wondered why they couldn't activate DPE's revival effect.

The ocg didn't have Zeus, TTT, Droplets and Darl Ruler or Accescode for a large part of Dragoons terror. So for awhile he was just an unlikable demon but the TCG had all that at it's release. So it never really became a problem here

You should do a video on all the current omni negates even if some arent played or banned, I feel like Dragoon would still be top of list behind just Baronne

I’m a red-eyes player but unfortunately have never been able to get dragoon because it’s too expensive

I don't play modern formats so I've got no opinions on the two engines, but wanted to say the background music really improves your videos and is a nice touch. Also as someone who is stuck in 2010-2011 with their Yu-Gi-Oh, both of these cards just sound busted as hell lmao

All I will say about it is this thing that someone at my locals said: “If DPE or Fusion Destiny gets banned, no big deal, I’ll just go back to playing Dragoon.” I think that says it all to me.

I'm going to see if I can mix it up with both Red eyes Fusion and the classic Polymerization in a hybrid deck of Dragons and Spellcasters.

Atm I'm running two REF and Two Dragoon, but I've almost got my DPE Engine complete as well. I play a Dragoon Turbo DM Deck, I'm going to be including DPE in it, and Branded when I get the rest of the Cards I need.

While the cards themselves are very different, I think the question of which one is better comes down to the Fusion spells. The difference between a garnet and a combo piece is huge. So DPE is probably the overall better card.

It went and plagued the casual field even more so than it did already. Well I assume since I only play DB cause of the place I live in and God dammit I can't tell you the last casual duel I've had without dpe scythe. Legit I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't play that

Man, must be nice to afford either of those cards :P I think it's down to wether you want that utility or you want a boss monster. Dragoon can get big, pop cards and swing for game, whereas DPE isn't really in that position.

DPE having more generic materials - not like there aren’t dozens of Hero’s to use as options - definitely helps DPE see more play. As is, I still use Dragoon in my Red Eyes Deck - don’t need a Verte, still think Verte’s gonna eat a ban at some point, and technically it’s only 1 Garnet in the deck instead of 3

Dragoon is one of my favourite cards because it was super fair and balanced in the tcg. New cards are often either broken Zeus, DPE or garbage but Dragoon was competitive but nothing too scary. I wish there are more cards like that. And it's brilliant how it was one restriction away from being broken. If only it fusion wasn't terrible, materials weren't terrible or you didn't have to end the turn with it (imagine buster lock on Dragoon or Dragoon to block Nibiru) it would be insane. I would argue that even discard is a bit too much, but I guess slapping extra thing to be sure was a good move.

it was the bringer of end times online for sure honestly I’m sure people still use it and people still hate it

I wish I could run DPE in Adamancipators. I just pulled one in a Burst of Destiny display box. I'll be adding it into another deck. Adamancipators, even as a rogue deck if that, is too much fun. I can't give it up lol

There's so many ways to get over it. It just didn't feel very powerful. Plus the bricks to bring it out do nothing. DPE is so much easier and more flexible

For my Dragoon, I'm using him in my dark magician deck utilizing Eye of Timeus

This is correct when thinking the splash-able power comparison. But for a dedicated deck for Dragoon, i think it still a stronger card. i.e. Other than using the red eyes fusion, i could opt to use Timaeus to summon him. It wouldn't lock my special summon. Yes the cost for the negation is quite steep, but one thing you didn't cover is how hard to remove the Dragoon compared to DPE. Not only it is a tower, but also an ever increasing Atk one as well. Means, it will gain advantage when battle. DPE has 2500 where it is respectable enough, it is not as high as let's say 1x negation Dragoon with 4K attack which can easily beat over most boss monsters.

I’ll tell you what happened. DPE happened. Once it’s banned people will go right back into slapping Dragoon into everything

Right now I don't have dragoon or P E but if I had a choice I would play dragoon because I like his effect a lot better plus he looks a lot better in my albaz invoked deck.😈

I do run verte but it's for gaurdian chimera and greater poly. It's an insane card and if you hard open greater poly even better.

I remember making a dragoon rush in a database game, it was sad how effective it turned out to be

I use this in Branded Despia. Having a negate that can’t be targeted or destroyed by card effects that gains 1k for every negate for mid-late game, since by then their generic outs to cards like this have been burned out. Not only that, but it can be extremely annoying to having to deal with Dragoon constantly being resummoned off of Theatre and/or Ad Lib. It basically becomes impossible to stop the recycle after a couple of times. Yeah, I could run something else, but every time I’ve summoned Dragoon in a game, I usually win that game, and I summon him quite often during the grind game

If there was ever a time where I was happy that Master Duel hasn't caught up with the physical card game, it would be after watching this.

If you play competitive Pokemon, it's kind of similar to Skarmory vs Corviknight. Skarmory has a strong defense stat and Corviknight looks weaker in terms of overall stats. However, Corviknight is actually more versatile than Skarmory because of its stats. You could invest EVs in Skarmory's other stats, it is worth more if you invest in its defense rather than its other stats. Corviknight, however, is bulkier in terms of HP, defense, and special defense, so you can invest EVs into one of those 3 stats or its attack stat because its attack is slightly higher by several points. You can run the same moveset with both Skarmory and Corviknight, but ultimately, Corviknight will shine at the top.

I am just getting back into the tcg and managed to pull a phoenix enforcer. So, yeah I'm probably going to use it over the card I don't have.

A simple way to solve issues like Dragoon and DPE: BAN VERTE!

I know this is off topic, but is it me, or should there have been a sort of synchro structure deck to go with the Synchro festival like how they did Ciphers for Xyz festival? Like yea they did it when the card pack released, but I think we are still missing a structure deck option too.

Funny enuff dragon is very nice on guro, and drawing the fusion card is very nice as well because When you guro you usualy just set on first turn so The restricion is fine.

In a simpler game state dragoon does beat dpe, but that utility pot of greed and free special is really nice.

I like the way you explain things

"it reads like a custom card" so basically like half of the cards made after like 2015 that weren't purposely made bad

I'll be using Dragoon because that is the engine I actually have ther parts for (and from packs too), and I can't afford DPE right now.

Opening Phoenix enforcer fusion spell: if you get nibirued or stopped in your combo you still get a boss monster and a pot of greed next turn, if you don't get stopped, you win. Opening Dragoon fusion spell: either don't combo and pass with a -1 omni (wich will get you laughed at in 2022, the protection doesn't really matter that much, it's more of an annoyance than anything else) or lose to nibiru/any turn ending hand traps if you play the game.

I played anaconda for a while in OCG going for Red Eyes Slash for Negation and Meteor Dragon for big hits not having Dragoon has been a struggle to play with, I eventually moved the red-eyes engine over to Dragon Link. What I mean to say is, it's kind of obvious that playing without the key card makes the fusion variant Red-Eyes decks kind of mediocre vs a high link Tempo Deck. So I can imagine even though I've not played DPE reading it's effect and hearing the value as you've explained means I can easily see why it's overshadowing the VERY Strong but in a way simplere Omni Negate Boss Monster

Red Eyes got the incredible power it wanted, but at what cost? It lost its POTENTIAL!

DPE happened on top of fusion destiny being a much better card that you can still use effectively even without anaconda

I had no idea that there's a Fusion of Dark Magician and Red Eyes Black Dragon, and i'm very upset that it's banned in Master Duel because of its OP Effects. It would be awesome to play a Fusion Card of both Yugi and Joey!

DPE is only broken because of the scythe lock /hero added support. Dragoon only has verte. If it had a separate support Dragoon would still be better. As a singular card dragoon is still better than DPE.

I personally run Dragoon in my control deck so I'm kinda glad it's not in the spotlight currently. I like having my 3 copies....

IMO, Dragoon's disappearance is fairly easy to explain - DPE and Fusion Destiny is a far better use of Verte than Dragoon and Red Eyes Fusion, and Dragoon was just meh at best. The only reason it saw any play at all was because it was the best card to summon off of Verte before DPE came around. Even then, Dragoon still had plenty of disadvantages - hard drawing into Red Eyes Fusion, having to play two bricky Garnets (at least Dasher and Celestial do something in the graveyard, unlike Red Eyes and DM), and you have to discard cards to activate its good effect. In a pre-DPE world, Dragoon is fairly good. Nowadays though, it's not great.

The variety of ingredients are better on Phoenix Enforcer, much better than two vanilla monsters. Then the Fusion Destiny mixer spell is able to be done after the other cooking summons, not so with the other fusion mixer. Finally the cake monster is able to dodge and pop on its own without needing anymore card investment.

Going second, Dragoon is one of the most insane Verte or turn ending summons u can do with how much damage it can do. Dragoon is more power. DHero is more Consistency.

dpe all the way tho my newest deck is a invoked eldlich deck with dpe and a smallish branded fusion engine that can make dragon thanks to a fusion substitute (- the pop and burn effect tho) also can make other fusion like blue-eyes tyrant dragon

Dpe in general is a better choice than dragoon but we have max c in master duel and like we know that card can make you drow a lot if you're opponent did except the challenge but with dragoon there that will not make you anything at all

Ayy I'm using Dragoon in my Albaz deck, but that's kinda out of synergy. :P

4:50 Dashers summon is anything but sacky. If you get your board broken and are out of cards, you draw, lets say, a lvl6 that cannot SS itself, dasher gets it on the board AND simultaneously unbricks your hand for Celestial to activate.

I like the fact that you brought up artifact scythe. I pulled one in master duel not knowing what it was, just knowing how artifact cards worked in general, and after reading it I was grinning like the chessire cat, and instantly added it to my favourite staples. I just wish I saw the face my opponents make after running into this.

A bunch of cards came into existence to counter this card in the OCG, then it was released here with those cards. Dragoon never got to enjoy the liberty it had in the OCG in its inception, which is hilarious. Still a good card, it just can't dance around cards like DPE does.

im thinking if buying Red-Eyes Dark Dragoon but dont know if it will hold its value. should i buy it from the 2022 tins?

I like Dark Dragoon more as on the turn you summon it, in mid game for example or even going 2nd you put a 2 monster removal, burn for that, big thicc protection AND an omni negate to ensure you get that pop 2 burn effect go through while making sure you get the OTK in battle phase. DPE is more for the grind game and i dont consider a grind game to be fun as it can easily turn into stalemate.

Dragoon was always not as good as it seemed. It was everywhere in the OCG - But almost never made it to the top tables. In the TCG it saw experimentation in a lot of decks, and many of them topped, but it was just a back-up plan for combo decks you added to God boards so you could play through 1 more hand trap. It's only other role, and it fulfills this to this day, is as an easy Boss in Stun and Control decks, mostly Guru, but really of all kinds. But in a DPE world the way to outplay handtraps is DPE and Brave.

Gone but not missed

I'm personally playing dark dragoon I might switch to phin enforcer maybe, Idk two boss monsters are better then one for my current thing I got going

Still kinda godly in VW tho with muddy mudragon

Well, We know have a certain branded spell that basically instant summon it for a discard

Good thing that the OCG finally banned Verte. No more shenanigans like this after branded fusion.

I feel like dragoon can carry better at locals. Just resolving one time the double pop effect and attacking is like 5000 or even more and you have a big boy negating and getting bigger

Facts, Dragoon totally feels like a fan made card with that effect

It's dumb how restrictive red-eyes fusion is considering how weak red-eyes already is outside of dragoon

huh weird i always thought that Dragoon was like it was made by the people who would make custom yugioh card that is op as fuck for no reason

Red eyes dark dragoons design as a monster isn’t any more crazy than a Zeus or a accesscode talker or even a mirror jade, it doesn’t seem to help any major decks really but does help decks like cyber dragons

With Branded Fusion, I think this will have a resurgence

Its coming right back now that I can get it out easily within despia albaz 😅

I am playing both in Branded Despia bec the Hex make it easy to summon Dragoon for me and i have space for the DPE Playing both in one combie is nice.

Tbh they should bring it back to master dual, with crap like Utopia OTK decks in the game and verte anaconda etc. It really doesn’t seem too op.

So I play a Red-Eyes deck and I am very proud of it my only downside is I don't have anaconda or Dragoon unfortunately as I am broke af. Hopefully I pull Dragoon in the 2022 tin and I'll hopefully get El Dorado soon so I will hopefully pull anaconda there.

I am very sad that Destiny hero Phoenix enforcer is that splashable but at least getting rid of him with dark law or superpoly makes him easy to get rid of in hero decks