New drinking game just dropped! Every time Vipey says "potential", take a drink. Every time Vipey says "justify", drink twice!

Ty fot the video, love to get your perspective on the changes. One correction: Shiramsha shield is unchanged, the reload time is changed -> shiramshas attack way slower

@TheViperAOE an interesting thing about Viking Arbalesters is that they perform better against units that have 7-9 pierce armour than Arbalesters with Thumb ring, even if you factor in the increased accuracy and firing speed! Some of the units that fit into this category are Elite Skirmishers, Paladins, Elite Eagle Warriors(non Inca) and Onagers- all of which generally counter Arbalesters, for Vikings they will be a little less of a counter

Dream team is now Chinese and Incas. Chinese keep their 6 vil start and get a free llama. That makes their start much easier/more consistent, and Incas w/ their military discount now feel like a solid early-game aggressive civ. Would really like to see some team games of them together.

Welcome to the Age of Hoang *.*

Really liked this idea of a pre-tier list before the post patch actual list!

Just a shoot out for the production with the videoediting! I'm impressed with the slides, the music and with the overall feeling of the smoothness. And the video is good ofc. Keep up the good work.

Loved this idea! Looking forward to the follow-up! Will see how much the archer civs will suffer from the infantry civs getting boosted, they already lost a step with the increased xbow/arb cost. That said, loving the patch so far!

Love this prediction tier list idea, can’t wait for the revision t list👍🏿

Nice tier list! Having almost all the civs in b,a and s tier is very good , meaning the devs are moving towards the right way

Two years ago Persians were S-tier and Portuguese were C-tier according Viper. Sad times for Persians. They need dark age speed bonus for TC back.

Massively massive potential potentially with the Malay longswords!

12:33 Pretty sure Gurjara's Shrivamsha Rider's attack speed (reload time) is being nerfed, not their dodge mechanic.

40:36 Ain't nothing but a heartache.

The Spanish gold reminds me a lot like the Polish gold bonus in the early game. The ability to get enough gold for your upgrades without mining good can be enormous.

good job on editing this video, very informative

The buff to teching into pikes feels like it benefits byzantines slightly more than other civs since it helps them use a civ bonus more easily.

Potentially the best tier prediction.

Btw the reload time change on the Shrivamsha Riders is referring to their attack speed, not the arrow dodging. So Shrivamsha Riders attack at the same speed as most other cavalry now, with Elite being slightly faster.

Very nice of you to put yourself on record. We'll assign (in)appropriate hate for any flawed prediction, obviously, this is the KZfaq comment section after all.

Maps with 2-3tc starts are going to be very good with lith. It might even help a lot with deathmatch too

Spirit made a great in depth analysis of new Shotels, I highly recommend you give it a view

This is good idea, we can take a screenshot and then laugh at Viper one month later.

think you should have mentioned for vietnamese that their imperial skirms make them die less to champion switch in late imp which is nice elite skirm used to deal with champions relatively well, but now with gambesons, champions wreck skirms imperial skirms will still be able to deal with champions relatively well

A potentially great video!

Great video Viper!!

Now all meso-american civ are now S-tier.

I think Portuguese should go to A tier after their recent nerfs and the Organ Gun receiving the Arambai treatment.

This video will let us know if pro players have a better sense of balance by just reading patch notes and not testing or playing. Very excited to see how the revised video will look after KOTD :)

Hi Viper I love your prediction Tierlist. 🥰 The difference between this video and the live stream is hug. Big thank to the editors! Somehow, it feels like Koreans didn’t get anything and their win rate wilk drop even more for Arabia. One suggestion: consider the tierlist as a relatively. That way you could use D-Tier for Koreans and Bengalis while bring in more flexibility, variety to Tier A, B and C Keep going! I love you analysis, explains and insights. What do you think? - do Infintry UU get enought buff? - is Gambisson fair distribution? - will Ethiopians be as strong as they were with free Helbardiers? - should huns lose Wood in Nomad starts after building a TC? - should flemisch Revolution cost as much as the same amoubt of flemish militia (high cost, hight reward?

this tier list if big pog love the vid man can you make tier list of bf civs too? bf games are big now btw hou do you love bohemians civ? iam from czech so iam invested you now =D

A very well thought out list. What I would change- Mayans down to A. Their combination of archers/eagles takes a hit with gambeson civs. Lithuanians up to S More food throughout makes them a stronger castle civ. Leitis are OP. Will be banned because of douches. Ethipoians up to S. Shotel are going to be everywhere. Vikings up to S. Best eco, helps them survive a weak Imp. In post Imp they dominate. Huns down to B. Other civs are just improving. Vietnamese down to B. Too one sided with options. Bohemians up to A. Strong archers, HC in castle , extra damaging spearline and houfnice, is all you need. Celts to A. The castle drop on another castle is going to be huge. Then instead of petards you just have infantry attack the base. Koreans down to C. Just not as good as other civs. War wagon is too vulnerable to skirms and monks. One the fence- Sicilians will be the toughest to play and have varying results. Spanish I was tempted to give a C but their missionaries will be used. Previously with 2 less range they lost to monks even with faster conversions. Now they win, being faster than infantry they convert and withdraw. Spanish should be very good on hybrid maps with a few more techs and cannon galleons.

Honestly could listen to this guy talk about AoE for ages and not get tired

wow it's strange to see sicilians so low, it seems like they have a pretty open tech tree now, and a very good eco

Hey Tiramis can you tell me the name of that sick outro music video plz, great great content from both of you and Da Bipah

I think that the higher infantry meta that the devs are pushing is going to make Teutons much stronger in this round. It's not just that their infantry line got further buffed (it did) it's that if other players and infantry focused civs are more popular then Teutons improve in the meta overall.

I say that every civ that has Gambesons has a fun time trying it out at the very least.

Vipey, dunno, I feel Bengalis with the Eles chonky archers being so cheap are so strong! I've had games where they won games alone. They don't take so much bonus damage vs skirms so it really feels to me like nothing can beat them. If you get husbandry they are faster than archers. Would love to hear your opinion about them :) Much love from Italy ❤

I'm having fun with Celt tg right now. 5 win streak. Breaking the meta with woads. Nomad soft water to woads to boat boom. Arab, scouts to words from pocket. Arena, c drop 2 petard to woad. Got a really nice mega random with close stone. Scouts to woads. Will be be nerfed. Buff celts, break meta.

imho sicilians still need cheaper serjeants and/or donjons otherwise you simply cannot afford them in feudal or even castle at 95 res and basically being tanky but weak militia (less attack, more armor, more HP, much higher cost). people don't play militia at 65 res after supplies cause it's too expensive to afford so naturally 95 res is suicide. donjon also cost still very much to be cornerstone of the civ

Goth scout rush with the new hunt is insane.

18:32: Lithuanian forward TC rush (with hill forts) will be OP now 11

Best tier list ❤❤❤

Thirisadai still tied to least used unit with Donkeys

Finally some love for my beloved Celts!

shrivamsha attack speed get nerfed, not the shield regeneration

Vipys editor is awesome! Everything is on point! :)

I already watched this live but I am here to see Tiramis' version. hehe

21:40 heck yeah, tankier gbetos!

I tried a little VS ia some build orders to try Militia Spanish. Free gold + all tech faster for militia. Militia + some Skirmisher in early. Followed by Militia+Light cav to chase archers and some monks. After gambesons with 1 or 2 monks,they can facetank a TC very nice and extra damage for buildings is noticeable. I need to try more but looks something different instead of full Conq that can work. Hope we can see some Spanish games soon for in depth analisys.

6:04 This reminds me of Vega in SF 4/5.

Spanish can actually get 140 gold in feudal with the reasonable upgrades for scouts + eco. So you would need 10 more gold for castle age. Which you probably can collect when a vill is running by the gold. So you safe 100 wood for mining camp and vills mining gold to go to castle age but you need to play a long and scout heavy feudal age. Idk but that just sounds like a bait for me.

The Shrivamsha rider reload time was for melee hits right? Thats what 'reload' means in AoE and the arrow dodge was unaffected

Take that back Jack - what a fewl

Mayans might have trouble to stay in S-Tier with eagles not only being more expensive but Champions getting buffed and getting more pierce armor on top. Do you think Slingers might be viable for Incas now? Combined with eagles, as a counter to Longswords/champions maybe?

challenge: Drink every time Viper says "potential"

I agree with most of this list, but I believe you are underestimating Vikings, specifically the +1 attack on the archers. On most tests, 11 attack arbalests outperform generic FU arbs with thumb ring (in most tests they kill targets about 10% faster), it also opens up more potential against high pierce armor targets, IE you need the same amount of mass to kill a champion with gambeson then before the patch. This would mean that viking arbalests are actually stronger than they used to be (though it's an imp tech, and much more expensive than thumb ring, and requires a castle) On the other side of things, Berserks need way less upgrades then before the patch, making a berserk transition way smoother. Vikings used to be A or S tier, I personally believe they are back on that level again, as they not only got their previous bonus back with a little additional power, but also benefit from all the infantry upgrade buffs they gave in this patch.

Vipey please make a rage forest civ tier list!

This patch potentially has a lot of potential!

Can you do a 4v4 tierlist for Arabia?

Thx Vipey :> 💚

one shot every time he says gambesons. 😀

You didnt even mention Bengali's biggest buff. Probably not too important on Arabia, but the elephant Archer buffs are going to be really nice in situations they can be used.

According to the YT transcript Viper says: Potential- 35 times Gambesons- 22 times Justify- 13 times Buff- 14 times Nerf- 11 times However it also says he talks about "101 fast moving, screaming spirits" at 18:56 so take this with a grain of salt.

I don’t play a lot of RM, but just running a casual game of DM against the computer and I think the vikings are going to be a lot smoother and better overall. Only takes 15 of their champs to beat 10 Spanish paladins now with the chieftain bonus applying to all infantry. That, and their arbs got an upgrade!!

i think you're the goat so you must be right x)

Viper you should play some Beyond all Reason to help get the game some exposure, Really great free rts with a growing community that could use a boost!

so can we do this for other maps too ? :D

Similar words: possibly likely prospectivly probably

Im excited to try double stable spanish scouts without mining camp, probably weaker than magyars, but would be fun!

I've been posting this around a lot - Spanish have been stupid for me for a while(and I get their problems from before), but 1745 gold saved in blacksmith potentially. Then getting 71 maximum techs into probably 30-40 researched at least means that you're getting another 600-800 for free. So 2100-2500 gold over the course of a game versus my Vietnamese 1550 wood savings is really ridiculous considering Spanish trade in team games makes the whole scenario even worse. They can either hold off on trade for longer and overwhelm earlier. Or can get trade up whilst still producing gold costing units.

I think malay caste age longswordsman will be meta now. Definitely S tier.

Potentially

Inca yes~

Hi snek! Watch it live, excellent edit from Tiramis. One feedback, I don't understand why you don't use D tier. You can just put Bengalis there, and then you have the possibility to use one more category to differentiate some of the intermediate civilizations, and solve some ambiguities. That doesnt mean that Bengalis are bad (they suk xD), just level up D tier.

vikings kinda slapping ngl

Another idea is to maybe create a video which shows how civs moved tiers across the last 2-3 years in your tier list. It would show which civs got nerfed/buffed and may show up something interesting

Wonder how many pro players will refer to this video for prep in the lead up to KOTD. xD

Can anyone give cliff notes on all s tier?

Hi Viper you wrong 😂 about Vietnamese. My opinion Vietnamese in D line or maybe F line.. I don’t see anyone pick Vietnamese when they on tournament game.

conclusion after a 5 sec look at the end after skipping the entire video: having eagles is good.

Hey viper, thanks for the video. I have a question regarding your choice as S tier for aztec, I am confused how aztec really shine in post imp late game, against the massive cavalry civs, how do you tackle a super heavy frank paladin charge? Can anyone tell me the late game composition for aztecs? Especially against cavalry civs..

No games on the new patch? Good luck 🤞

African ,Mezzo, Civs that do not gain access to Good cavalry,nor gunpowder,nor elephants and a weak navy should instead receive strong bonuses for their infantry, villagers and trash. African and mezzo civs should only have canoe navies. Able to fire arrows ,fast ,agile and only using 0.5 pop space but they don't have access to Gally line, nor cannon. Gallons. All canoes can carry/transport 3-5 units and are trained twice as fast as regular ships. Don’t have access to fire ships but get fire canoes that shoot fat covered fire arrows (Fat burns intensely hot). Tech in dock:Fat covered fire arrows - +3 attack to canoes. Canoes transporting skirmishers gain added pierce armour,attack and range. Canoe upgrades are half the cost of regular ship upgrades and come in immediately when you research them. Give the imperial Skirmisher Team bonus (Vietnamese) to a Sub Sahara African civ (Shona people). Sub Sahara African civs get African huts as Dark age houses. (Already in game.) Saracen + Berber+Turks + Kurds dark age houses should be Berber tents (Already in game.) Lithuanians ‘’Skirmishers and spearmen move 10% faster’’ bonus should go to a new Mapuches/Tarascans civ that forms part of a New DLC. And the (Spearman-line and Skirmishers +2P armour) should go to the Zaputechs. In turn Lithuanians towershields tech applies to their crossbows and their sword line. And Hillforts UT should give added HP to TCs alongside the +3 Added range.. Dravidians I would love to see the Dravidian ‘’Skirmishers attack 25% faster’’ bonus go to a new Mapuches/Tarascans civ that forms part of a New DLC Tribes of the Tropics DLC Taíno/Arawak peoples / Carib kingdom/Tupi Zaputechs Mapuches/Tarascans. Toltecs Polynesians/ Tuʻi Tonga Empire. In turn the Dravidian Urumi gains the ability to build/repair docks and faster firing BBC/hand cannoneers. Burmese. +1 attack per age for infantry bonus should go to Byzantines and instead Burmese gets Elephant archers that are also cheaper. (Strong expensive Battle elephants and Cheap elephant archers) Gurjaras. Nerf Gurjaras by giving their ‘’Can garrison fishing ships in Dock’’ ability to an Africa/Messo civ team bonus that only has canoe navies. Songhai Team bonus: Africa/Messo civs with canoe navies Can garrison fishing ships in Dock. I love the Gurjaras especially their Shrivamshra riders, they are built to counter the boring, repetitive archer metta of a lot of ''pros''. Inca Should gain a UU in archery range : Quechua Bolas Warrior (Shared unit with the Mapuches) Quechua ranged infantry that hurls bolas for a wide area of effect. The bola slows down/ensnares enemies and does slight area damage (mostly against archers). Good against cavalry. Receives a free Chasqui each age. Chasqui - Inca scout with a great deal of utility. Can build outposts. When attacking, the Chasqui uses its quipu as a weapon.

Inca s tier... hmmm. If i didnt know better I'd say noboru rush got a buff lol

You ought to be splitting A/B tiers into + and -.

I would put Italians in A tiers. The condotierro they give to all team is a massive bonus for infantry civs.

Thumbnail Incas at 14:13

Byzantines forever! Chat message to feed the algorithm. Cheers Viper, cheers Team GL.

We know this tier list won't age well because Viper didn't put 2/3rds of the civs in B tier like he's supposed to.

Dravidians A-Tier! LOL They should be X-tier! Can't wait for the memes! A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Dravidian weakness is heavy cavalry raids during castle age when additional town centers need to be placed. I don't see Siege discount fixing that problem. May be 33% discount on scorpions could have helped. Mass scorpion defense with arbs might have been a play. The real reason Dravidians are so terrible to play is that their bonuses and tech tree don't complement one another for Arabia. Initially, It seemed like they were going for a infantry solution backed up by fully upgraded foot archers. But their castle age unique tech was for elephants which meant they did not have a winning condition for castle age against Cavalry and Siege combination. Now they have thrown Siege into the mix which is still weak to cavalry. Better to throw it out and figure out a better solution.

I honestly think Berbers, Hindustanis & Burgundians should not be less than S tier tbf. Mongols & Cumans could be A tier. Nice vedios as always Viper keep it on 👏🏻

vikings no thumbring... still a tier_ ?

Half way through video. Most of civs are in A or B tier. Only one in C and nothing in D?

This is essentially just a 3-tier tierlist lol

So Incas S Tier but chinese and aztecs still S tier too?

The whole speech you had about persians, i would have about malians except malians are strong enough to win in castle/early imp Their imp is probably the shittier in the game tech tree wise tho

Corps is pronounced "core"

Arambai should even damage allies lol these knives hit anything but their target.

Bengali are S tier in my list because I play closed maps. Waiting for Viper to tell me why I'm wrong T_T