Nice video

Tolkien was the first “I told you so” writer

I thought it looked like Middle Earth.

What if Japan won the imjin war

Well he did wanted to write mythes and legends for an older England/Europe

don't worry - in this world, there aren't any french

there wouldnt be any "French" as we think of them. thered be entirely alternate peoples living in most of Western Europe

No English, French or Dutch. One can only dream.

@@RedbadofFrisia what a wonderful world

@@kameronjones7139 fr

Man imagine if somehow Mongolian and Lividian horsemen met in Central Europe. Those battles I would love to learn about.

You know how the Hungarians are related to the Uralic peoples despite being separated by thousands of miles? It'd be interesting to see a potentially Mongolic people smack dab in the middle of Northern Europe thanks to favorable terrain.

Livadia would still be pretty far regardless, probably around 1000 miles from Hungary, which the Mongols only Briefly invaded but didn't quite conquer. The Best we could get is someone using Livadian Mercenaries against them.

Genghis Khan: "It's free real estate."

Maybe the Levatis would invade Mongolia instead

??

@@mariekirstinebang5808 RV's

The only thing I do wish about Tolkien and his geography is that he mostly used natural barriers as borders, which sure a lot of the times is done in real life. However there is also a lot of wacky stuff that is done, from colonies, bad decolonozation, trade routes, or just historical events. Like for example a lot of eastern Europe's borders is based off the carpathia mountain range, except Romania. Romania was 4 seperate countries which united into one and the carpathia mountain range actually runs through the middle of the country. Stuff like that is interesting and fantasy maps don't usually go that far. Another example is Nambia which has a strange panhandle, the reason for that is the Germans wanted access to the river that lead towards India, so the reason for the panhandle is literally for access to trade routes. I wish more fantasy would try wacky stuff, because wacky stuff happens often when it comes to borders in real life. Tolkien was one of the best when it came to fantasy maps, and there is some very interesting things in his map of Middle earth. But I find it lacks a bit of the wacky shit and follows natural borders a bit too much (mountain ranges, rivers, etc.)

Congratulations man!

Jeez… it’s really been that long?

Fantastic! Well done 👍

@@mongooseiv8336 It blows my mind too

So your just going to college for fun not to make any money in the future huh? 😂

Yeah and Doggerland depicted here looks really similar to Beleriand also

So, Angband is under the North Sea? Because that actually makes too much sense…

Also Cimmeria from Robert E Howard's work (Conan etc) Not sure when people knew about Doggerland since he killed himself in like the mid 30s

Yeah, much like several places like Isengard is in Denmark

Glad I wasn’t the only one who thought of Beleriand. The shape, the positioning of the rivers…somehow I doubt that was a coincidence. Does that make Britain Numenor?

That is the most fantasy name I have ever seen.

No, it’s not. It’s based off the village of sarehole where he grew up in rural England, he even said “The Shire is based on rural England, and not any other country in the world”

@@Finnbobjimbob I wasn't actually being serious, I know he never visited my village, just pointing out how Tolkienesque my county in Wales is. I do know he based Sindarin on Cymraeg, so if anything elves would be more apt, but honestly if you met the people of my village, you'd definitely be thinking "Those are tall hobbits".

And Livadians straight up Easterlings

Incorrect, middle earth is in New Zealand. And the shire is in Matamata

why would napoleon be born to begin with

​@@godemperorofmankind3.091I think he means a battle that would take place in an era that would have similiar weapons and technology to our napoleonic era.

Than there is Beleriand and yes, there is no way this is all coincidence.

I think Polynesia with its islands will be the first to industrialise in this world then… for some reason. There is also of a chance of doggerland becoming a Raj like Māori colony

@@1mol831 ?

@@1mol831 wat

@@1mol831 it's impossible for archipelagos/tropics to industrialise. You really don't understand how anything works, do you?

if this doggerland never sink beneath the sea we will have a video called "what if UK was an island?"

elf language was Based on Finnish and Finnish mythology have elves. (i don't mean like the Christmas ones, those are like gnomes but in English they are called elf too)

Dutch fishermen continue to bring mammoth bones to the surface, and even rivers have names that refer to a large common river.

​@@kmeanxneth elves are more like ukrainian people. with all due respect finns are a bit too ugly to be a reference for the elves

Britain as we know it probably wouldn’t even exist.

Nah I think British weather had a greater effect. Both on empire building (Built boats to get away) and defense (Physically and as a deterrent).

It'd probably just be part of France.

@@Oakshield2 which is both good and bad

Canada would be French, and Australia would be a less developed Dutch State unless they had arrived at a similar time. Dutch-Maori NZ

there was no ireland or scotland back then

@@overkoppsbaiter0714 What he means is that the people who becamse the Scots originated in what's now Northern Ireland. At the time they were called the Scoti and they invaded the Pictish lands during the dark ages, conquering the natives and obliterating their culture.

@@joshwenn989 Scoti weren't a specific group of people, it was just the Latin name for all the Gaelic people of the British isles.

You could go from India to China through the gap between Borneo and Sulawesi but it's a longer route

"It would be like the Balkansand everything that it entails" - question is: who would be those "Balkans" version of the Ottomans?

@@vladprus4019 ummmm ¿france? i know them was not that powerfull in a beginning, but they could try to conquer their neighbors eventually.

@@vladprus4019 maybe the Nordic countries

Lol “Where was the Earl of Wessex when Northumbria fell?!”

@@warlordofbritannia "The beacons are lit! Rome calls for aid."

@@stevemcgroob4446 And Livadia shall answer!

Too cold that far north probably

There is suspicion that it actually was. There is a sudden spontaneous development of monolith building in all the areas surrounding Doggerland after it starts to become uninhabitable. The thought is that they were a settled developed culture that emigrated to surrounding areas bringing the technology with them.

Yeah because England without an easy way out of fighting France directly instead of pillaging India to pay mercenaries to do the warring they would be instantly conquered and you would actually get a somewhat French Empire similar to China in both population and a stronger "center of the world" mindset covering Europe by the time of Louis the XIV

Gallia Hibernia, the land of tin: Livadia Occidentis, Tina, Zinnland, Irheim These names are what could define historical Gondor/Arnor in West Livadia (historical Eriador/"Doggerland") could be

@@ommsterlitz1805 That’s… assuming a _lot_ of history that very easily could not have happened.

I know that this is really late but- 1)That could be said for a lot of Cody’s videos. 2) The issue is, he realistically can’t, not in a way that he likes talking about these subjects. As he said in the “Mu” video he doesn’t really like diving too much into the specifics for videos like these since, as he says it, he’s essentially making it all up. Changing geography, especially for stuff like this, essentially wipes the slate of history clean completely. There’s no telling how or why history would take form in this world since, effectively, the history of Europe would fundamentally change at its core. Not only is all of the Northern European Countries completely different or just nonexistent as a result of different geography and cultural mixing, but we have no way to know what exactly replaces them, as we can’t know what the cultures of those who would continue on in this timeline that died after Doggerland sunk in ours or how they would change and develop over time. Not to mention how these new cultures would interact with the rest of the world and the butterfly effect that would cause on say Rome, North Africa, or even China I know that’s a bit long, but all to say, he can’t really make a “series” or anything more than this video without eventually just making a historical fiction story of this alternate world, which isn’t really what AltHistoryHub is about since it more or less tells the general strokes and possibilities of how the world would be different if events went different. Not to say he won’t potentially make a book on the subject, since he did that with the concept of Atlantropa, but I’m just saying, that’s not really how Cody does things typically. Again, sorry for such along reply after you probably forgot about this initial comment.

It's fine

Congratulation he made a video on Mu

@@exciton9861 next we need Hyperborea and Lemuria

He wrote a book about Atlantropa, he could write a book about Livadia.

Speaking of Low Fantasy, I honestly wouldn't mind if he made up Low Fantasy What ifs and Scenarios, or Just Fantasy Scenarios in general.

What if Zealandia was above water? Great collaboration video.

The way I see it, following alternate histories where changes become drastic (either immediately or over a long time), you have two choices; you can either keep everything fairly vague and just talk about what trends are different, or you can go specific but acknowledge that this is based on very little and is essentially speculative fiction.

I would sacrifice the UK for 5 bucks

This

@@Joshisepic2222 I would sacrifice the UK for nothing.

Nothing of value was lost

I'd ask what the UK did, but uh... it's far less time consuming to ask what they didn't.

It's a combination of factors. We can't ignore the potential biological control of vegetation. Which is basically the grazing pressure by herbivores.

@@frankenstein6677 Look at ireland. Is it a grassland ?Thats what the regions near the western coast of doggerland would be like. Of course biological control is a factor, but it becomes less and less relevant as the land area becomes larger. What you said would be very influential on an island, but doggerland is a part of a continent so i dont think it is that important here.

It would be dogged

Turkey

It wouldn't change a lot.

@@birisi916 actually it might be more of it. More land above ground more tin deposits Probably would make it slightly cheaper.

Assuming the Channel River is of similar importance as the Nile & other rivers, we may have seen a "Western China," so to speak. Complete with nomadic horse-raiders to the north!

Most civilization of the Bronze age imported Tin from the region we know as Afghanistan, it was the closest great deposit for the middle East but also for Asia. While the Tin of Cornwall is also one of the biggest Tin deposit in the world, it was in the end dangerous and costly, still some merchants back then did make the trip (from back and forth) but it was not the norm ... In fact I heard the only people that could afford that kind of venture long term was the Northern Cannanites/ Phoenicians ....

@@0th_Law I was suspecting a similar setting. Either a Gaulic or Latin-based Western "China" could be possible if you subscribe to the theory that close proximity to horse-based nomadic societies creates centralized empires (China, Iran, Byzantines, Russians).

There's a book for this if I remember, It's called "a different flesh"

I doubt the Polynesians could sail that far north

​@@mal_3157 The Americas include south America such as Peru and Chile, where it shares latitudes with Polynesia.

@@Grason20 I suppose they could make the trip considering they reached Hawaii

​@@mal_3157 I used to be skeptical about ancient ocean sailing but if Leif Erickson could reach America with 15th century (could be off) boats anything is possible. Just a matter of routing and avoiding storms/rough waters I'd imagine.

How so?

@@oconnorwilliam01 i hate england

Cry

Actually there were many factors about the caused of Doggerland sinking. Just saying that it went under caused by a large flood is an understatement. It's a lot more complex and I can't really give details that much. Just looked it up like Atlas Pro. In simplification, GLACIERS WEIGHT A TONS AND CAUSED A DENT OVER EUROPE CRUSTAL PLATE. DOGGERLAND IS LIKE A SEESAW.

England would have blown up the bridge to avoid baguette invasion

@@rogueascendant6611 I think he was talking about the Storrega Megatsunamis

Maybe he went there through C.S. Lewis's warddrobe...

We love you too.....

There are three too many Balkans

Latam, Middle East, ASEAN,...

Balkans plus the Caucasus level.

That is if nationalisn as we know it is ever invented. That only became a thing in Napoleonic era. This would change Europe so much that nothing like that is guaranteed.

Balkan conflicts are national now, once tribal. You are very foolish if you think nationalism invented intergroup conflicts as you imply.

@@aurelianus1308 i'm not implying that. Neither am i saying that conflicts between groups haven't existed before nationalism. I'm just saying that the scale and reason of potential animosity between hypothetical groups is impossible to ascertain with this big of a divergence.

Slavs - Rhûn Rome - Mordor Gauls - Haradrim?

What would be angmar? The vikings?

And let Iceland be numenor and north America be Aman

@@balashibuyeeter2704 The Norse yeah. Fuck, does that mean Arminius is the Witch King?

Who would that make Sauron?

However I will say that if you do fun alternate history don't try to act like it's comparable to the serious ones.

Normie

@@Perririri In what way?

Well the difference is, the Mongols were, well, the Mongols - a more or less culturally uniform group. If you stick like 5 different cultures into a landmass the size of France with almost no natural borders, they'd probably be too busy killing each other to do any kind of Mongol business.

@@pocarski forget that; Genghis Khan was the Empire. No Genghis no party.

@@pocarski Which would be fine until they generated their own great conqueror. Then you have an incredibly violent group of people sitting on vast mineral and agricultural wealth finally looking outwards.

@@pocarski yep the mongols were a bunch of nomadic tribes too busy killing each others & raiding china's north to create any empire, until genghis khan came along it is now on the other hand, its not ensured that a similar great conqueror would have eventually risen in lividia so the possible future is uncertain

Oh we're still here, on horses this time

Could you figuratively have learnt about it?

Well, well. Looks like I ain’t the only story teller in this comment section.

​@QuantumMeme nah I don't like Hobbits

That question could actually be rephrased as "What would North America be like if it's horses and camels hadn't died out?" Because horses and camels originated in North America before migrating into the old world 2-3 million yrs. ago and then their native population in the America's died out due to a few factors.

Yes I want this now

ive always thought about such a scenario but with little more parallel world american horses for horses toxodon for cattle macrauchenia for camels hippidion for donkeys pecarry for pigs maybe even war mammoths or mastodons

@@djamelben9221 maybe Pygmy mammoths are domesticated in California and spread through the Americas

Native Americans with bison cavalry is an alt history I didn't know I needed.

Thanks for the recommendation!

I was just going to recommend this. It's a good book that explores this, and the people managed to keep the land intact by building embankments and sort of keep the land from being inundated by the sea similar to how the Dutch is able to reclaim land from the sea. They actually revealed the name of this place in one of the chapters but I don't want to spoil that here.

wait but what about summer

@@quoccuongtran724 The middle book is called "Bronze Summer" Op mistyped

I was looking for someone hear who knew those books!

Read the Lord of the Rings...

@@jakeaurod why?

@@godemperorofmankind3.091 There's alot of similarities.

@@docpossum2460 not much. maybe one vaguely similar kingdom. thats it

I wouldn’t get my hopes too high. Civilizations probably wouldn’t be able to withstand the climate. Doggerland would most likely be like Northern Canada

yhjfvm,

In a timeline where it was never an island, seeing it as an island would be weird. All about what we are used to.

@@FlopFan69 I suppose for those folks our western Europe would be some kind of weird super post apocalypse set so far after the destruction of such prominent cultures and people.

Nothing stays the same, for long here.

''Im going on an Adventure!''

It's actually called hobbiton but okay

Non of these nations would exist. Angul the supposed ancestor of the Angle tribes wouldn't of even been born.

Britian and it's culture probably wouldn't even exist here, especially since the Anglo-Saxons wouldn't exist here, and same with the Prussians as Eastern Europe is Much Colder, and Gaul would Probably be Conquered by the Livadians rather than the Franks, so no France Either. Alot of Countries probably wouldn't exist here.

Or - might have kept its French colony after Henry V

Britain wouldn’t even exist at all. I not even sure of Prussia or even France either.

if Britain was connected to mainland Europe, it wouldnt be called Britain, it would just be a part of France essentially.

But maybe a lot less fish...

Probably more like Venezuela - Saudi Arabia basically only has oil and historic resources (I.e. Mecca.) This country would have fertile lands and plentiful natural resources other than oil as well.

the funny thing is, russia did attempt to colonize hawaii

Imagine elements of Germanic, Gaelic and Saxon cultures coalescing together