The thing is that the Strong boys are not the reason the Dance happend. It would happen regardless.

In George's original draft for fire and blood Harwin and Rhaenyra were married so their children were legitimate and the Greens still usurped Rhaenyra so if Rhaenyra had legitimate children the war would've happened regardless.

I just want to state that in the books team green were spreading rumors about Rhaenyra having sex since she was 10

Maybe if Cole would have gotten punished by the King for killing Joffrey, which I don’t understand how he got away without one, Leonor would have moved on and be more present for Rhaenyra and the kids.

I see in the comments that some people truly believe that if Rhaenyra didn't have bastards, that the war wouldn't have happened. I find it hilarious that. Otto and Alicent were against Rhaenyra BEFORE Rhaenyra had children in both book and show. In episode 3 Otto said to Alicent that Aegon must be King, because he was the 1st born son, Otto wanted his blood on the throne, that's why he pimped out Alicent to the King. Alicent turned on Rhaenyra because she slept with Criston Cole and used that to declare for her son its why she wore green to Rhaenyra's engagement party.

I was about to say before reaching to the end of the video that as long as Otto and the small council are still pro male primogeniture then the dance would happen regardless of how close the kinds are or how close alicent is to rhaenyra

The Strong boys have brown hair in F&B which is not the same as Rhaenys's Baratheon black hair.

Yeah, I think you overlooked the fact that high towers are her family and they have a whole different plot regardless on how she might feel about her stepdaughter her duty to her father will come out first, which is why in the books she didn’t join the plot last minute she was part of the plot

Okay, yes, we KNOW that Jace, Luc, and Joffrey aren't Laenor's kids. HOWEVER, you can't actually tell that just from looking at them like everyone says on the show. Their mother Rhaenyra is 3/4 Targaryan and 1/4 Arryn (Arryns are known to have sandy brown hair). Laenor has a very light complexion and is 1/2 Velaryan, 1/4 Targaryen, and 1/4 Baratheon (Baratheons are known to have black hair. In fact, in Fire & Blood, Rhaenys is said to have black hair). It would be completely within the realm of possibility (no pun intended) for Rhaenyra's first 3 sons to have white skin and brown hair and STILL be Laenor's children.

If Rhaenyra's sons are legitimate the dance still happens because too many lords wouldn't accept a queen. We would have a Blackfyre rebellion situation with Aegon being told by Otto that he should declare war on Rhaenyra. And if not Aegon, then Aemon, who would have no problem killing his still cruel brother to be next in line. Alicent would be much less important regardless of whether she supports rhaenyra or not. If anything, Rhaenyra still wishing she could run away with Alicent and her wanting to stay because of her duty would be the main conflict between the two, if one could even call that a conflict.

The dance may still have happened. The source material has Laenor's mother with dark hair, and the Velaryon family isn't black but look like the Targaryens. In addition to all this, the amount of time that Rhaenyra and Laena and Daemon spent together in the years that Viserys was ruling, Rhaenyra could have easily hidden the fact that Laenor is gay by having more Targaryen looking bastards with Daemon. Marrying her to Laenor made sense to keep his house in the fold, but marrying her to Harwin would have been good to see.

Also! If Alicent had accepted Rhaenyra’s offer, Otto would have no incentive to oppose Rhaenyra’s claim. He incentivized Viserys to pass over Daemon, (how’s that for male primogeniture), to have the opportunity to put his own blood on the throne. He’s ambitious. He didn’t oppose Daemon because he thought Rhaenyra would be a better ruler, he was fearful of someone who disliked him having more power than him. He’s never been concerned with a leader who’s sufficient by merit because he knows his grandson is a r*pist 😃. Both Alicent and Otto are ambitious hypocrites. It’s never been about male primogeniture, it’s about Otto wanting his own on the throne😉

Naturally taking out otto stops the dnce, but he is essential to the story😅

With Otto gone, Alicent won't feel pressured to then pressure Aegon into taking the Throne over Rhaenyra. Aegon himself said that he didn't want to supplant Rhaenyra when she was still just Viserys' heir. It leaves Aegon free to abdicate. But the Hightowers could still rally behind Aemond and hold sway over any other houses that also don't approve of any woman sitting on the Iron Throne. I highly doubt whichever Baratheon was head of Storm's End when Rhaenyra sought allies would side with her regardless of whether her children were legitimate or not... which means Aemond would still have a Baratheon bride waiting for him, should he wind up being the last man standing for the inevitable dance 😅

In the books its alot less clear who is and isnt the father, but in the show thanks to weird casting choices (actors fine, repersentation meh, It only makes the ambiguity of the boys parentage less... ambiguous)

Alicent is clearly a past incarnation of Catelyn. Family. Duty. Honor.

even in the book it's obvious that harwin is the dad. criston broke breakbones' collar bone and turned his name into broken bones. you take my girl, I take your soul. those are the rules.

I loved this.Certainly it's not hard to see TV Alicent and Rhaenyra reconciling in this situation. I hope you do the other alt history you discussed as wll.

Having bastards is one thing but it's not okay when you try to pass them off as legitimate heirs when it's too obvious that Laenor isn't the father. The smart move for Rhaenyra to have done was name her sons by Daemon as her heirs to the throne and as for her bastards, she could've bought Jace some land and got him a castle built and he could've become the lord of his own castle. While setting up Lucerys to be the defender of the Bloody Gate at the Vale just like the Blackfish was in GOT. As for Joffrey he could've become a maester, or own his own business or become a master at arms or something.

I think dance will still happen though it won't be that intense as in original. Aegon and alicent won't be playing any part because jace and helaena's marriage. I can't say same about aemond and otto.

To me this topic fixes everything since they ain’t bastards. If the kids were legitimate Alicent would marry her daughter to Jace. Helena would be safe, Aemond wouldn’t loose an eye, Alicent won’t go to war. The only won who would still conspire is Oto but he wouldn’t have much chance since he would still be in old town. Great video can’t disagree with anything u say.

The dance was always going to happen

I love your videos. Could you do one of Criston and Alicent´s bond?

I think you miss a big part, Daemon still wants to be King. He would try something

love your channel be here eince day 1 hope u reach 1 mill

The one thing you got wrong was Daemon. Daemon would 100% kill Laenor. Than he would marry Rhaenyra and later make sure one of his own children sits on the throne.

NGL, I was hoping that the twist would be that Otto would be the one who finds Viserys as he's dying and twists his death bed whispers about Aegon's dream to say that Viserys changed his mind at the last moment to make Aegon king.

But I believe that the real problem comes for the high tower since the time of maegor they’ve been trying to destroy the Targaryen influence and power

So your point is that if nothing was generating tension, there would have been no story to tell? Why would you want to remove as you said one key thing that created a story for us? Tbh I was waiting for you to craft the same or better conflict along some other lines, and tought that was the point of the whole what if scenario

Even if they were, the greens would have lied and said they were illegitimate to take the throne.

(this video co-written by Lord Corlys Velaryon and sponsored by the Rhaenyra Targaryen campaign)

the real question is, what if viserys never remarried? because then i could see otto and the greens supporting rhaenyra while daemon resents her for having the attention he never had from viserys. say whatever, daemon choking her out in the season finale and just his actions in that episode in general prove it to me

i dont think it would have stopped much. the Greens have one less argument against Rhaenyra, but they have several others.

“The succession changed the moment your father sired a son”- Otto Hightower & his brother told him to promote their “boy” & with the Lannisters & the rest of the small council expect Beesbury would still move to crown Aegon. Otto would’ve still told Alicent Rhaenyra would kill them because she’s a woman & Aegon will always be a threat. Otto is one of many the Lannisters & most others don’t think a woman should rule

In this case, I hope TheEmpyreanSpeaks would do a "what if" alternate game of thrones timeline where dragons never went extinct after Rhaenyra and Alicent's time. If Aegon the III never had any fear of dragons Where dragon babies/chicks never got sick or never been kept captive or poisoned by his order, allowing them to grow and be healthy until the Night king makes his move to grow his army. Who would ride them? As far as I know, House Velaryon still lives during the events of game of thrones in the books but was never casted or shown compared to House of the Dragon. If TheEmpyreanSpeaks or any of you find this interesting, please tell me what you think. Thank you.

This would never work. The fight has nothing to do with her children Its all a power grab from house high tower. They have been trying that since the begining.

What would Daemon be doing in Pentos? I feel like even if he didn't marry Rhaenyra he'd still be plotting to get the throne. The dance breaks out but between Rhaenyra and Daemon.

As long as there are rumors that the children are illegitimate the line of succession will never be secure. Viserys should have realized this. If he wanted her to be his heir, he needed to make marriage alliances between her children and the high noble houses to secure their loyalty to the line. Such as marry the eldest to one house and the second to a second house stipulated that they will marry those couple's children (who would be cousins in the next generation) so they would be on the throne in the next generation. And then marry the third and forth to a third and forth noble house. With the stipulation that their children marry and have children, and then that child marries the original line to be on the Throne in the third generation. And yes a lot of first cousins marry and these kids may end up with extra fingers, but there isn't a war.

Would you consider a scenario where Alicent only gave birth to daughters? Let's also assume Rhaenyra still has the Strong boys and did marry Daemon

Isn’t Laenor a lord? Or at the very least he’s the son of a lord. I feel like the courtyard scene with Ser Criston would play much differently cuz striking a lord is much more heinous than striking a fellow knight.

Here's a good what if. What if Jace, Luke and Joffrey looked like their mother Rhaenyra?

in this scenario a question you didnt pose yet i still think is interesting, who would aegon marry

I’m sorry you’re way too nice to Alicent she chose to start a civil war because she was a sanctimonious hypocrite-her behavior with Larys was treason she could have been beheaded for it. It would have been considered infidelity.

Rhaenyra was in love with Daemon since she was a teen if Laenor does she marries Daemon they still don't want a woman as monarch and Daemon is a prince

Laenor and the boys had nothing to do with it. Alicent and otto were still giing to try to wipe them all out. Otto wanted the throne and his family on it. It didnt matter if rhaenyra did everything right and if daemon were more controllable. He was going tk try and get rid of them regardless. He pimped his daughter out to the king for a reason. That lets me know how far he was willing to go.

Well, I believe they’re bastards, but I also believe because they are the bastards of a royal house and not a normal noble house it should have affect the line of succession if anything her hair should’ve been married to her sister, the boys aunt to pleased the none royal houses

Can you do a „what if viserys led daemon marry rhaenyra“

Makes way more since than the show

Just an fyi, some of us thrive better with longer videos

Daemon would murder Laenor

I disagree with everything you’ve said in this video. Alicent rejecting Rhaenyra’s offer is exactly when her character began being inconsistent. Rhaenyra offering Jace to marry Halena is an olive branch REGUARDLESS if the kids are bastards or not, and Alicent rejecting the offer implies at some point she was never willing to make peace with Rhaenyra and always intended to usurp her throne. It doesn’t matter if the children were bastards. Jace marrying Helena guarantees the green children’s safety and for anyone saying Alicent rejected the offer “because the blacks children were bastards and she didn’t want to put her children in harms way”, if anyone were planning to challenge Rhaenyra’s claim to the throne, the legitimacy of the children would be irrelevant as the objection to her claim relies on Rhaenyra being a woman and the bastard status of her children is only relevant to Luke’s claim to Driftmark. With that the only person opposing Rhaenyra is Vaemond and who backs him???? Alicent agreeing to Rhaenyra’s offer 1) unites the factions 2) indirectly legitimizes the bastards and 3) shows Rhaenyra never had any intention of harming Alicents children. This video proves exactly why most of the fandom can’t stand Alicent’s character because all of her reasoning is inconsistent and malicious. If she had just excepted the offer in the first place there would be no dance of the dragons. I blame the writers for her character inconsistency. She either has to be a victim of the patriarchy who fears for the safety of her children, or a plotting villian who wants her children on the throne. Either way I’d prefer the villian arc because at least she’d have a backbone and stand behind her decisions. I hate that the writers always go back to “the patriarchy ruined Alicent and Rhaenyra’s girl boss relationship”, because over 15 years there had to be multiple chances of reconciliation that Alicent must have rejected, the offer of Jace marrying Helena is the strongest one we were shown, Alicent rejecting it shows she had no intent to reconcile. And I hate that stupid page at the end of the season, that was pure gaslighting on Alicent’s end.